About this episode

Milton Bearden discusses the aftermath of the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan and the strategic decisions that shaped the country's chaotic future.

In this second part of a remarkable conversation, Milton Bearden reflects on what came after the Soviet withdrawal and the decisions that helped shape Afghanistan’s next, far more chaotic chapter. He explains how the CIA shifted tactics in dealing with Ahmad Shah Massoud, funnelling cash rather than weapons into a war that had effectively become a vast arms marketplace. He offers a more measured assessment of Massoud himself, arguing that by the late 1980s he was already looking beyond the battlefield and positioning for the political struggle that would follow. Bearden also recounts the moment he sent a two-word cable to Washington, “We won”, as Boris Gromov crossed the Friendship Bridge. But while the Cold War was collapsing in Eastern Europe, Afghanistan slipped down the list of priorities. He is blunt. The United States lost interest, and it was a mistake. The episode challenges popular narratives around Osama bin Laden and the so-called “Afghan Arabs”, who at the time were seen as marginal players, valued more for the money they brought than their battlefield impact. Most strikingly, Bearden reveals that in the lead up to 9/11, Taliban contacts signalled they were no longer…

People in this episode

Host: Roh Yakobi

Guest: Milton Bearden

Topics covered

• CIA operations
• Soviet withdrawal
• Afghanistan politics
• military strategy
• Cold War
• terrorism
• historical analysis

Keywords

• CIA
• Soviet Union
• Afghanistan
• Ahmad Shah Massoud
• Cold War
• Taliban
• Osama bin Laden
• military strategy
• political struggle
• 9/11

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: CIA, Washington, Taliban

More episodes of Afghanistan with Roh Yakobi

• How the CIA Defeated the Soviets in Afghanistan | Milton Bearden (Part 1) · April 3, 2026 · 34 min
• Inside The Secret CIA Mission that Toppled the Taliban - Justin Sapp (Part 3) · March 8, 2026 · 40 min
• Mark Urban: I Marched Into Kabul with Ahmad Shah Massoud (E34) · February 20, 2026 · 1h 5m
• Inside the Secret CIA Mission That Toppled the Taliban - Justin Sapp (Part 2) · February 16, 2026 · 32 min
• Inside the Secret CIA Mission That Toppled the Taliban - Justin Sapp (Part 1) · February 8, 2026 · 28 min
• Tom Tugendhat: The pain and costs of our defeat in Afghanistan (E69) · January 10, 2026 · 1h 3m

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