AEWCH 321: JOSHUA RIVERS & SHULI BRANSON on WHAT WE MUST LOSE TO GAIN THE WORLD

About this episode

Conner Habib discusses the theme of transformation and what we must lose to gain the world with guests Joshua Rivers and Shuli Branson.

Using AEWCH 317-320 as a starting point, I talk with JOSHUA RIVERS , poet and host of the excellent BUSY BEING BLACK podcast + frequent AEWCH guest, SHULI BRANSON (host of the podcast THE BREAKUP THEORY podcast , and translator of Guy Hocquenghem's Gay Liberation After May '68 .) about the small task of remaking the world. At the center of the episode is a thought that's something like: We have to lose - via transformation - so much to gain the world. The last time Shuli was on the show was a conversation with a third person, too, with Dean Spade on AEWCH 277 thinking through how to think bigger than the state. On that episode, we each brought a question for the other two guests, and we do that again - but this time prompted by Josh. These are the questions: JOSHUA: How do you care for what you love? CONNER: If you let go of the set of capitalism vs communism (or socialism) what’s left in your view of how to change the world? SHULI: How do you open things up so that you have a new and altered view? Along the way we talk about poetry, science, occultism, politics, and...well, so much else. And the episode ends with dancing. I'm so excited to share this episode with you. Support…

People in this episode

Host: CONNER HABIB

Guests: JOSHUA RIVERS, SHULI BRANSON

Topics covered

• transformation
• poetry
• politics
• science
• occultism

Keywords

• transformation
• capitalism
• communism
• poetry
• politics
• occultism
• world change

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: BUSY BEING BLACK, THE BREAKUP THEORY

Books & works: Gay Liberation After May '68

More episodes of Against Everyone with Conner Habib

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• AEWCH 319: A NEW SPIRITUAL SOCIETY, PT 3 - The spiritual heart of POLITICS · April 29, 2026 · 45 min
• AEWCH 318: A NEW SPIRITUAL SOCIETY, PT 2 - The spiritual heart of CULTURE · April 21, 2026 · 42 min
• AEWCH 317: A NEW SPIRITUAL SOCIETY, PT 1 - An Introduction To Social Threefolding For Our Time & Renewing Culture, Politics, and Economy · April 14, 2026 · 26 min
• AEWCH 316: On Child Abuse & Political Conspiracy · March 12, 2026 · 59 min