About this episode

The episode explores the balance between logic and magic in circular transformations with insights from sustainability leaders.

Technology isn't magic. And neither, it turns out, is circular strategy. In this episode of HappyPorch Radio, Barry O'Kane speaks with Amelia Woodley, a sustainability leader with 25 years of cross-sector experience, and Vin Sharma, a researcher whose doctoral work examined why the social dimension of circular economy so often gets left behind. Amelia introduces her "logic versus magic" framework: the logic side covers strategy, systems, KPIs, and measurement; the magic side covers the storytelling, brand identity, training, and people-led change that make sustainability mean something inside an organisation. Her argument is that most organisations over-invest in the logic and underinvest in the magic, and that is exactly where circular transformations stall. Vin's research adds depth to this picture. Across companies at different stages of their circular journey, he found that social value tends to be bolted on rather than built in, and that the organisations making genuine progress were the ones who treated crises as learning events rather than problems to recover from. The conversation is unusually direct on the financial dimension. Both guests push back on the idea that…

People in this episode

Host: Barry O'Kane

Guests: Amelia Woodley, Vin Sharma

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: HappyPorch Radio

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