About this episode

Mat and Pastor Bernie Lieving discuss Jacob's dream and the concept of 'thin places' where God's presence feels close.

This week Mat sits down with Pastor Bernie Lieving to explore Jacob's famous dream of the ladder to heaven and the powerful reminder that God is always moving toward us. They unpack the idea of "thin places"—moments when God's presence feels especially close—through stories of unexpected encouragement, meaningful relationships, and everyday "God incidences." Together they discuss why silence matters, how God often speaks through ordinary people, and what it looks like to recognize that God ma...

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