THE HARDEST CONVERSATION ON THE INTERNET: ISRAEL VS PALESTINE

THE HARDEST CONVERSATION ON THE INTERNET: ISRAEL VS PALESTINE

From Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels by Jillian Michaels

July 12, 2026 · 1h 41m

About this episode

Jillian Michaels hosts a debate between Nick Matau and Ben Burgis on the Israel-Palestine conflict, discussing ownership of land, citizenship, and international law.

In this explosive long‑form debate, Jillian Michaels hosts Nick Matau (pro‑Israel) and Ben Burgis (pro‑Palestine) for a no‑holds‑barred clash over the most controversial questions on earth: Who really owns the land? Is a one‑state solutionwith equal rights even possible, or is the two‑state solution dead forever? Are Palestinians permanent second‑class non‑citizens under Israeli rule, and does international law actually back the “occupation” claim – or is that all propaganda? Nick Matau argues that Israel is a besieged democracy fighting for survival, defending Jewish self‑determination, security, and the legitimacy of Israeli control over Judea and Samaria/West Bank, while rejecting claims that Israel is genocidal or racist. Ben Burgis counters that Israel has effectively built a single state “from the river to the sea” where millions of Palestinians live as subjects, not citizens, comparing the system to South African apartheid and challenging the morality and legality of occupation, settlement expansion, and ethnic discrimination. Together, they dig into the Oslo Accords, Camp David, the Green Line, settlement blocs, Gaza…

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