Is It Ethical To Cooperate With Chinese State Institutions To Secure Incremental Change?
From Open to Debate by Open to Debate
June 12, 2026 · 53 min
About this episode
The episode debates the ethics of cooperating with Chinese state institutions for incremental change.
As democratic governments, universities, and civil society organizations grapple with how to engage China, an ethical question persists: should cooperation with Chinese state institutions, which involve every industry from education to commerce, be pursued as a pathway to gradual, meaningful progress, or does such engagement ultimately legitimize repression and undermine fundamental freedoms? In partnership with the Human Rights Foundation, we debate: Is It Ethical to Cooperate with Chinese State Institutions to Secure Incremental Change? Arguing Yes: Joanna Chiu, Managing Partner of Nüora Global Advisors; Author of "China Unbound" Arguing No: Isaac Stone Fish, CEO and Founder of Strategy Risks Emmy award-winning journalist John Donvan moderates Join the conversation on Substack—share your perspective on this episode and subscribe to our weekly newsletter for curated insights from our debaters, moderators, and staff. Follow us on YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, X, Facebook, and TikTok to stay connected with our mission and ongoing debates. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
People in this episode
Host: John Donvan
Guests: Joanna Chiu, Isaac Stone Fish
Topics covered
- ethics
- China
- cooperation
- human rights
- incremental change
- democracy
Keywords
- China
- ethics
- cooperation
- human rights
- incremental change
- democracy
- universities
Mentioned in this episode
Organizations: Human Rights Foundation, Nüora Global Advisors, Strategy Risks
Books & works: China Unbound
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