About this episode

Luke Kemp discusses the historical and future implications of hierarchical societies and their collapses.

For most of our history, humans lived in relatively egalitarian societies that actively prevented the accumulation of power. Author of Goliath's Curse , Luke Kemp, examines how hierarchical states, 'Goliaths', came to dominate the world. We explore why Goliaths repeatedly collapse, the likely trajectories of today's global Goliath, and what it might take to radically democratize power before history repeats itself. Highlights include: Why Luke rejects the term 'civilization' in favor of 'Goliath' to describe the large-scale societies that have emerged over the past several thousand years and were built on dominance hierarchies such as ruler and ruled, rich and poor, man and woman, and free and slave; How archaeological and anthropological evidence suggests that for most of human history people lived in relatively egalitarian, democratic, and cooperative societies, challenging long-standing assumptions about humanity's supposedly violent and selfish nature; How humans historically constrained would-be tyrants through ridicule, ostracism, exile, and if necessary group execution; How the first Goliaths emerged thousand of years after intensified agriculture, using war and violence…

People in this episode

Guest: Luke Kemp

Topics covered

• collapse
• hierarchical states
• egalitarian societies
• democratization of power
• human history
• archaeology
• anthropology

Keywords

• collapse
• Goliath
• egalitarian
• power dynamics
• human history
• dominance hierarchies
• democracy

Mentioned in this episode

Books & works: Goliath's Curse

More episodes of OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance

• The Ghastly Costs of Population Denial | Corey Bradshaw · July 9, 2026 · 1h 15m
• Animals and the Right to Politics | Sue Donaldson and Will Kymlicka · June 30, 2026 · 1h 16m
• Becoming Grounded in Deep Time | Marcia Bjornerud · June 1, 2026 · 55 min
• The Hoax of Lab-Grown Meat | Vasile Stănescu · May 19, 2026 · 1h 7m

Explore listener stats, chart rankings, contacts and more on the OVERSHOOT | Shrink Toward Abundance podcast page.