Meet with Triumph and Disaster and treat those two impostors just the same: "If—" by Rudyard Kipling
About this episode
Matt Schmitt shares his reflections on Rudyard Kipling's poem 'If—' and its relevance to carbon dioxide removal.
Sometimes you read a poem on a carbon removal podcast and it's goofy. Sometimes you read a poem and people start writing you wanting to share their own favorites... Matt Schmitt, CEO and co-founder of Structure Climate (a company I formally advise), was inspired by the recent Emily Swaddle episode where we spoke about poems that mean a lot to us. He wrote me immediately to read a poem of his own and share what it means to him and his labor in carbon dioxide removal. The poem is "If—" by Rudyard Kipling, from circa 1895. Matt zooms in on two lines that have stayed with him: the bit about meeting with triumph and disaster and treating those two impostors just the same, and the closing image of filling the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds' worth of distance run. Listen in to hear more about why Matt loves that triumph and disaster are both capitalized; why "treat" is the perfect verb—carrying both the everyday sense and the older sense of negotiating a treaty; why the unforgiving minute is unforgiving (it doesn't care whether you think it is sixty seconds or not, the minute is sixty seconds); why the map is always wrong when the map and the ground disagree…
More episodes of Reversing Climate Change
- 396: Why We All Keep Going to Carbon Unbound—w/ Oli Katz, Unbound Summits
- 395: Bright Spots in US Federal Policy? Carbon removal as essential American infrastructure—w/ Eli Cain, Carbon Removal Alliance
- 394: Will China Stand Up for Climate Policy & Carbon Dioxide Removal?—w/ Sarah Godek
- Vexed to Nightmare by a Rocking Cradle—The 2026 Horror of W. B. Yeats' "The Second Coming"
- 393: Emily's Language Chat: Storytelling, Silliness, & Surviving the Climate Space—w/ Emily Swaddle, The Carbon Removal Show
- 392: What Will Happen to CORSIA & Carbon Dioxide Removal?—w/ Lev Gantly, partner at Philip Lee LLP
Explore listener stats, chart rankings, contacts and more on the Reversing Climate Change podcast page.