About this episode

Emma Burlow interviews Mark Shayler about his book and the importance of embedding sustainability in business practices.

This week, Emma is joined by sustainability sector stalwart and optimist Mark Shayler for a deep dive into his book You Cant Make Money From a Dead Planet. Mark shares his career journey, the challenges and lessons of working in sustainability, and his recent personal health scare. The conversation tackles why businesses must embed sustainability at their core, the importance of systems thinking, and the danger of reducing sustainability to PR or compliance. Mark and Emma discuss the sector’s obsession with targets, why missing them isn’t a scandal, and how real progress means looking forward, not just reporting on the past. Key Topics Mark Shayler’s career journey: from environmental science to council, consultancy, Asda, and beyond (01:19) Why disaster is not always personal and the importance of resilience (13:06) What businesses get wrong about sustainability strategy (25:59) The pitfalls of putting sustainability in PR, marketing, or as just compliance (26:04) Reconciling economics and ecology—the two are deeply connected (21:19) Targets, failure, and the opportunity for a ‘mass awakening’ in the industry (32:04) Circularity, systems thinking, and the consumer’s role in…

People in this episode

Host: Emma Burlow

Guest: Mark Shayler

Topics covered

• sustainability
• business strategy
• systems thinking
• economic ecology
• circularity
• resilience

Keywords

• sustainability
• business
• systems thinking
• targets
• ecology
• resilience
• circularity

Mentioned in this episode

Books & works: You Cant Make Money From a Dead Planet

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