About this episode

Dr. David Johns and Dr. Zakiya Smith Ellis discuss the challenges and opportunities in public education, focusing on DEI policies and the importance of advocacy for families.

In this conversation, Dr. David Johns welcomes back a colleague, a co-conspirator, and a genuine friend from their Obama White House days—Dr. Zakiya Smith Ellis—for an honest, urgent, and surprisingly joyful conversation about the state of public education in America and what it demands of all of us, in spite of this moment. Zakiya brings her full toolkit: the policy precision of a former Senior Advisor on the White House Domestic Policy Council and U.S. Department of Education, the grounded clarity of New Jersey's former Secretary of Higher Education, and the voice of a mother who—in spite of best-laid plans—had to pause this very recording to redirect her daughter and close a door. Together, she and David break down the federal push to require all recipients of federal funding to certify they don't operate "illegal DEI" programs, unpacking what those words actually mean, what the courts have repeatedly said, and why the vagueness is entirely the point. They take on the narrative that public schools are failing, the difference between an executive order and the law of the land, and what Black families—and all families invested in democracy—should be asking, demanding, and…

People in this episode

Host: Dr. David Johns

Guest: Dr. Zakiya Smith Ellis

Topics covered

• public education
• DEI
• federal policy
• Black families
• democracy
• education reform

Keywords

• public schools
• DEI programs
• education policy
• Black families
• federal funding
• education reform
• democracy

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: NAACP Legal Defense Fund, U.S. Department of Education, White House Domestic Policy Council

Places: New Jersey

More episodes of Teach the Babies w/ Dr. David J. Johns

• UNtrending Rundown- Wins & Warnings · May 5, 2026 · 17 min
• Julie Wenah on AI and Civil Rights · April 21, 2026 · 29 min
• AI Is Not Coming for You. It's Waiting on You with Dee Marshall · April 14, 2026 · 37 min
• How Vouchers Are Destroying Public Schools with Fred Jones · April 7, 2026 · 34 min
• The White People Whisperer: On Authenticity with Maya Rupert · March 24, 2026 · 45 min
• Take Up Space, Y'All w/Tess Holliday · March 17, 2026 · 27 min

Explore listener stats, chart rankings, contacts and more on the Teach the Babies w/ Dr. David J. Johns podcast page.