Dr. Zakiya Smith Ellis on DEI, Public Schools, and Refusing to Stop
From Teach the Babies w/ Dr. David J. Johns by Dr. David J. Johns & Thomas Cunningham IV
March 31, 2026 · 34 min · Season 4 · Episode 9
About this episode
Dr. David Johns and Dr. Zakiya Smith Ellis discuss the challenges and opportunities in public education, focusing on DEI policies and the importance of advocacy for families.
In this conversation, Dr. David Johns welcomes back a colleague, a co-conspirator, and a genuine friend from their Obama White House days—Dr. Zakiya Smith Ellis—for an honest, urgent, and surprisingly joyful conversation about the state of public education in America and what it demands of all of us, in spite of this moment. Zakiya brings her full toolkit: the policy precision of a former Senior Advisor on the White House Domestic Policy Council and U.S. Department of Education, the grounded clarity of New Jersey's former Secretary of Higher Education, and the voice of a mother who—in spite of best-laid plans—had to pause this very recording to redirect her daughter and close a door. Together, she and David break down the federal push to require all recipients of federal funding to certify they don't operate "illegal DEI" programs, unpacking what those words actually mean, what the courts have repeatedly said, and why the vagueness is entirely the point. They take on the narrative that public schools are failing, the difference between an executive order and the law of the land, and what Black families—and all families invested in democracy—should be asking, demanding, and…
People in this episode
Host: Dr. David Johns
Guest: Dr. Zakiya Smith Ellis
Topics covered
- public education
- DEI
- federal policy
- Black families
- democracy
- education reform
Keywords
- public schools
- DEI programs
- education policy
- Black families
- federal funding
- education reform
- democracy
Mentioned in this episode
Organizations: NAACP Legal Defense Fund, U.S. Department of Education, White House Domestic Policy Council
Places: New Jersey
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