About this episode

Kevin Sabet and Matt Johnson debate the implications and realities of psychedelic policy on the Illusion of Consensus podcast.

Kevin Sabet debates Matt Johnson on the Illusion of Consensus podcast with host Rav Arora, covering Trump’s psychedelic executive order, ibogaine, FDA approval, Right to Try, drug scheduling, and the future of psychedelic research. Sabet, a former White House drug policy advisor across the Clinton, Bush, and Obama administrations, argues for caution around psychedelics, marijuana policy, commercial incentives, and overstated medical claims. Johnson, a leading Johns Hopkins psychedelic researcher, responds on psilocybin studies, addiction treatment, depression, safety protocols, REMS, and why accelerated research may still follow the evidence. The discussion also covers Joe Rogan, RFK Jr., Marty Makary, Jay Bhattacharya, ketamine clinics, MDMA, MAPS, cannabis rescheduling, veteran suicide, and the risks of turning experimental drugs into public policy too quickly. Subscribe to Rav’s Substack to get episodes straight to your inbox: https://www.illusionconsensus.com Chapters: 0:00 - Intro 2:05 - Sabet’s Objection to Psychedelics 10:00 - Matt’s Disagreement with Sabet 13:15 - Psychedelic Research Quality 21:10 - Kevin’s Rebuttal 24:00 - Was Joe Rogan Wrong On Ibogaine’s Efficacy…

People in this episode

Host: Rav Arora

Guests: Kevin Sabet, Matt Johnson

Topics covered

• psychedelic policy
• drug scheduling
• FDA approval
• addiction treatment
• psychedelic research
• medical claims
• public policy

Keywords

• psychedelics
• drug policy
• ibogaine
• psilocybin
• FDA
• addiction
• research
• safety
• public health

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: Johns Hopkins, FDA, MAPS

Products: ibogaine, psilocybin, MDMA, ketamine

Places: White House, Clinton, Bush, Obama

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