About this episode

This episode discusses the evolution and challenges of underground warfare in modern conflicts, featuring insights from military expert Asher Katz.

For decades, underground warfare was viewed as a niche military problem. Today, it has become a defining feature of modern conflict. From Hamas's extensive tunnel network beneath Gaza and Hezbollah's underground infrastructure in Lebanon to Iran's hardened missile facilities and the expanding subterranean systems in Ukraine, North Korea, and China, military forces are increasingly using the underground for protection, command and control, logistics, and maneuver. As drones, persistent surveillance, artificial intelligence, and precision strike make the surface battlefield more transparent and lethal, the strategic value of operating beneath it continues to grow. In this episode, John Spencer is joined by Asher Katz, cofounder and CEO and of Traysar Industries and a former member of the Israel Defense Forces' elite Yahalom unit. Their discussion examines the unique challenges of fighting below ground, the evolution of Hamas's tunnel strategy, lessons emerging from Ukraine, why destroying tunnels is often far more difficult than locating them, and why militaries must rethink doctrine, organizations, and capabilities for this increasingly important battlespace dimension.

People in this episode

Host: John Spencer

Guest: Asher Katz

Topics covered

• underground warfare
• military strategy
• Hamas tunnel network
• Hezbollah infrastructure
• modern conflict
• military challenges
• subterranean systems

Keywords

• underground warfare
• Hamas
• military strategy
• tunnel networks
• modern conflict
• subterranean systems
• military challenges

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: Traysar Industries, Israel Defense Forces

Places: Gaza, Lebanon, Ukraine, North Korea, China

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