Murder on the Couch: When "I Did It For You" Is a Lie

Murder on the Couch: When "I Did It For You" Is a Lie

From Waking Up to Narcissism by Tony Overbay LMFT

June 4, 2026 · 1h 1m · Season 1 · Episode 6

About this episode

Tony Overbay explores the chilling case of John List and the psychological factors behind his actions.

A heads-up before you press play: this is a bonus crossover from my true crime podcast, Murder on the Couch, dropping into your Virtual Couch / Waking Up to Narcissism feed. It's heavier than usual and opens with a disturbing familicide case that I don't sugarcoat, so if that's not where you are right now, it's completely okay to sit this one out and come back when you're ready. If you stay, I use the case to get at the things we talk about all the time—shame, compartmentalization, the altruistic defense, emotional immaturity, and differentiation—because the behavior is horrific, but the psychology underneath it is deeply human. John List killed his wife, his mother, and his three children—then walked away convinced God would understand. Murder on the Couch is back. Licensed therapist Tony Overbay reopens one of true crime's most chilling family annihilation cases, but not for the manhunt or the famous 18 years List spent hiding in plain sight as "Bob Clark." Tony sits with the question that actually keeps him up at night: how does a devout, rule-following Sunday school teacher reach a place where murder becomes, in his own mind, the most loving thing he could do? If you've ever…

People in this episode

Host: Tony Overbay

Topics covered

  • familicide
  • shame
  • emotional immaturity
  • altruistic defense
  • psychology of murder

Keywords

  • narcissism
  • familicide
  • shame
  • emotional immaturity
  • altruistic defense
  • psychology
  • true crime

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