About this episode

The episode features a conversation with Ben Appel about his memoir and the complexities of identity and belonging in contemporary society.

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with writer Ben Appel about his memoir Cis White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic and how identity, group loyalty, and the need for belonging shape belief and punish dissent. Appel describes returning to school at Columbia at 33 after a career in hairdressing and personal struggles, and how campus culture, critical theory, and political sloganeering pushed him to question reductive binaries, self-censorship, and seeing government as good only when it serves “my side.” The conversation covers polarization, the lack of ideological viewpoint diversity in education, pressures to conform, debates within gay communities such as marriage equality, and concerns about medicalizing gender-nonconforming youth and the difficulties faced by detransitioners. Appel finds hope in stepping back from social media, connecting with people, and focusing on everyday respect and curiosity, including talking to Trump voters as fellow human beings. 00:00 Talk to Trump Voters 00:19 Meet Ben Appel 01:53 Why Write Cis White Gay 06:57 Parroting Politics 13:14 Life Experience at Columbia 19:23 Starved for Viewpoints 23:23 Critical Theory as…

People in this episode

Hosts: Lura Forcum, Lauren Hall

Guest: Ben Appel

Topics covered

• gender identity
• polarization
• viewpoint diversity
• critical theory
• gay communities
• detransitioning

Keywords

• gender heresy
• identity
• group loyalty

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: Columbia

Books & works: Cis White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic

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• Ep. 50: Leah Sargent on the Dignity of Dependence · May 19, 2026 · 1h 1m
• Ep. 49: David Beckmeyer on Outrage Overload, Tech, Media, and Tribalism · May 11, 2026 · 1h 5m

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