William Desmond and John Vervaeke: Strong Transcendence, Plato, and the Between

William Desmond and John Vervaeke: Strong Transcendence, Plato, and the Between

From Dr. John Vervaeke by Upfire Digital LLC

May 28, 2026 · 1h 37m

About this episode

John Vervaeke discusses strong transcendence and Platonism with philosopher William Desmond.

Can transcendence still make philosophical sense after modernity? John Vervaeke speaks with philosopher William Desmond about Platonism as a living tradition, the meaning of strong transcendence, and Desmond's philosophy of the metaxu: the between. The conversation builds from John's proposal that relevance realization and transjectivity are philosophically grounded in Desmond's ontological account of the between. John begins by distinguishing modern psychological accounts of transcendence from the ancient and Platonic sense of strong transcendence. In this stronger sense, transcendence is not merely a better state of mind. It discloses truths that are otherwise unavailable and changes the knower's relation to reality. That claim challenges modern assumptions about flat ontology, the buffered self, representational cognition, and the fact-value split. Desmond responds through Plato. He presents Plato not as a dry theorist of two worlds, but as a philosophical artist of the between: a thinker of mimesis, eros, mania, dialogue, singularity, and participatory transformation. Plato's dialogues are not ornamental containers for arguments; their drama, characters, and dialogical…

People in this episode

Host: John Vervaeke

Guest: William Desmond

Topics covered

  • transcendence
  • Platonism
  • philosophy
  • metaxu
  • ontology
  • dialogue
  • intercultural philosophy

Keywords

  • transcendence
  • Platonism
  • metaxu
  • ontology
  • dialogue
  • philosophy
  • relevance realization

Mentioned in this episode

Books & works: Plato

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