Dr. John Vervaeke

What happens when a society possesses extraordinary technological power but lacks a shared sense of what that power is for? John Vervaeke, Jordan Hall, Guy Sengstock, and Christopher Mastropietro reunite for a sustained inquiry into normativity: the structures by which human beings perceive direction, value, responsibility, and the difference between better and worse action. The question becomes urgent in the context of artificial intelligence, where increasingly consequential decisions are being made inside a culture that struggles to articulate a coherent basis for judgment. The conversation begins with Guy's encounters with the AI community and the fear that humanity may soon make decisions it cannot reverse. From there, the group investigates modernity's technological understanding of being, the reduction of creation to artifacts, and the modern self's attachment to sole authorship. John and Jordan propose that meaning is participatory: intelligibility is not manufactured by isolated selves but emerges through shared authorship with other people, traditions, practices, and reality itself. The dialogue then turns toward virtue. If the problem is not simply ignorance but malformed attention and desire, knowing what should be done is insufficient. The deeper difficulty is how people become capable of wanting, perceiving, and participating in what is good. Socratic aporia, vulnerability, kenosis, embodied practice, pilgrimage, and dialogue are explored as ways of undergoing reorientation rather than merely acquiring information. In the final movement, the speakers discuss bad-faith dialogue, leisure, lingering, tourism, linguistic lostness, and doomscrolling. These apparently different subjects converge on one insight: when people remain sealed inside environments engineered around their existing capacities and preferences, they lose access to the forms of friction, surprise, and participation that can transform them. Key Insights Normativity is the directional structure through which actions appear better, worse, appropriate, or necessary. The AI crisis exposes a deeper cultural inability to answer what technology should serve. Modernity often confuses participation in creation with ownership of the resulting artifact. Meaning and intelligibility require shared authorship rather than sovereign individual control. Virtue cannot be transmitted as information alone; it requires transformed attention and participation. Embodied practices can reorganize abstractions because higher cognition remains rooted in sensorimotor life. Pilgrimage, leisure, and dialogos help people cross boundaries between worlds rather than consuming only familiar inputs. Doomscrolling is an efficient example of technology feeding hypertrophied capacities while narrowing participation in reality. Timestamps 00:00 - The group reunites 01:10 - Normativity as the central concern 02:40 - Guy's San Francisco radio work 05:20 - Inside an AI thought-leader conference 08:30 - The danger of irreversible technological decisions 13:50 - Intrinsic normativity and attention 16:00 - Liminal navigation and the limits of simulation 20:30 - Art, creation, and artifacts 23:00 - Heidegger's technological understanding of being 25:40 - Participation and shared authorship 28:30 - Modernity's reinforcing attractor 31:00 - Socratic aporia 33:20 - Finding the right orientation 37:50 - Exposure, vulnerability, and displacement 40:10 - Sole authorship and identity 42:20 - Kenosis and the emptying of privilege 44:20 - Reconstitution and commitment to truth 49:10 - Virtue and its opposites 51:40 - AI and humanity's final decision 54:10 - Knowing what to do versus becoming able to do it 56:10 - Can virtue be taught? 58:20 - Remediating participation in ordinary life 01:00:20 - Pilgrimage and unfamiliar worlds 01:02:30 - Embodied cognition and reorientation 01:04:30 - Rilke and self-emptying 01:09:20 - Sacred directionality 01:11:20 - Crossing the threshold into action 01:13:50 - Bad faith and dialogical boundaries 01:18:40 - Leisure and time 01:21:20 - Lingering beneath atomized time 01:23:30 - Tourist and pilgrim 01:25:50 - Modernization and tourism 01:30:10 - Being linguistically lost 01:33:00 - Situation and participation 01:35:10 - Doomscrolling as narrowed reality 01:37:30 - Returning from pilgrimage Resources Plato and Socratic aporia Charles Taylor Martin Heidegger Rainer Maria Rilke Christian concepts of kenosis, theosis, and synergy Embodied cognitive science Pilgrimage Dialogos Follow Lectern for more conversations about wisdom, meaning, philosophy, technology, spirituality, and cultural renewal.

How can ancient spiritual practices be reanimated for modern life? In this compelling episode, John sits down again with therapist Seth Allison to delve deep into the themes of suffering, trust, and growth within the frame of internal family systems therapy and Jungian analysis. Seth discusses his transformative experiences over the past few years, including the impact of previous conversations with John and his own journey through a profound period of liminality. They touch upon voluntary necessity, the role of suffering in cultivating faith, and the transformative power of relationships and community in overcoming personal crises. Seth also highlights the significance of humility in effective leadership and his aspirations for fostering supportive, growth-oriented environments in both personal and professional settings. Seth Allison is a psychotherapist and depth-oriented thinker whose work integrates attachment theory, Internal Family Systems, and Jungian psychology with spiritual and existential inquiry. Drawing from both clinical training and lived experience, he specializes in helping individuals navigate midlife transitions, relational struggles, addiction dynamics, and identity shifts. Seth's approach emphasizes authenticity, relational depth, and the courageous engagement of suffering as a doorway to growth and deeper participation in life. Seth Allison: LinkedIn The Cost of Discipleship Murray Stein The Serenity Prayer 00:00 — Welcome to the Lectern 05:00 — Voluntary necessity and spiritual depth 08:00 — Bonhoeffer's profound insights 11:00 — Personal reflections and resonance realization 25:30 — Exploring liminality and midlife transitions 29:54 — You can't serve money and God, and money doesn't just mean money, it means ego, success and accomplishment. 52:00 — Hermes and the concept of love addiction 52:30 — The arena of partnership and self-discovery 54:00 — Addiction and attachment strategies 56:30 — Faith and recovery: a new perspective 58:30 — The role of symbols and sensory experience 59:30 — Transcendence and metanoia 01:07:30 — The importance of community in recovery 01:18:30 — Navigating betrayal and suffering 01:35:00 — Leadership and humility 01:44:00 — The subversive power of trust --- Want to go deeper? Join the Lectern platform on Teachable for full-length courses, guided series, and structured pathways into the ideas explored here. John Vervaeke: Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/ Twitter: https://x.com/DrJohnVervaeke YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke/videos Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke Thank you for Listening!

In this episode of The Lectern, host Ethan Hsieh sits down with philosopher and cognitive scientist Mark Miller to explore the science of predictive processing and its implications for happiness, meaning, and wellbeing. They unpack how the brain is not a passive receiver of reality, but an active prediction engine—constantly generating its best guesses about the world and updating them through experience. From belief formation and perception to resilience, virtue, play, and mindfulness, the conversation bridges cutting-edge cognitive science with ancient contemplative wisdom. Together, Ethan and Mark discuss how understanding the predictive nature of the mind can transform how we relate to uncertainty, cultivate agency, and develop a deeper, more participatory sense of happiness—both individually and collectively. This episode also introduces Mark Miller's upcoming course, Generations of Joy, which explores these ideas through neuroscience, philosophy, and contemplative practice. Sign up for the course: https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/courses/generations-of-joy 00:00 Welcome back to The Lectern 02:30 Mark Miller's background and research focus 06:00 Predictive processing and cognitive science 09:00 Belief, perception, and meaning-making 10:18 "You're not seeing the world—you're seeing your best guess about the world." 13:00 Course overview and key themes 27:00 Honesty, virtue, and transformation 39:30 Practical applications and course dynamics 41:30 Real-world implications of science 43:00 Emptiness, neuroscience, and insight 43:30 The frame problem in cognitive science 45:30 Optimism vs. pessimism: locking onto the world 46:30 Training the mind to discern 47:30 The interpretive nature of reality 52:00 The role of play in cognitive development 56:00 Managing uncertainty through play 01:12:30 Mindfulness and emerging evidence 01:22:00 The Transformational Neuroscience course Mark Miller is a philosopher and cognitive scientist whose work bridges philosophy, neuroscience, and contemplative science. His research explores how the predictive brain shapes happiness, wellbeing, and meaning in a technologically saturated world. He is a Senior Research Fellow at Monash University's Centre for Consciousness and Contemplative Studies (Australia), cross-affiliated with the Psychology Department at the University of Toronto (Canada), and a visiting researcher at Hokkaido University's Centre for Human Nature, Artificial Intelligence, and Neuroscience (Japan). Website: https://www.markdmiller.live/ Ethan Hsieh is a facilitator, educator, and philosophical practitioner working at the intersection of performance, cognition, and transformative pedagogy. He is the creator of TIAMAT, a three-tier developmental framework integrating cognitive science, dialogical philosophy, and embodied practice. Through immersive learning environments and collaborative inquiry, Ethan helps individuals cultivate virtuosity as a way of life—emphasizing participatory sense-making, metacognitive mapping, and shared agency. His work with the 5toMidnight collective focuses on building deliberately developmental communities grounded in relational ontology and lived philosophical transformation.