About this episode

This episode discusses the complexities of online scams in Southeast Asia, focusing on the victims who are forced to participate in these operations.

When most people think about online scams, they picture criminals sitting behind a screen and stealing from victims around the world. But in Southeast Asia, many of the people sending those messages are victims too. Some were promised legitimate jobs, flown across borders, trapped inside guarded compounds, and forced to scam others while trying to survive. In this episode, I talk with Ivan Franceschini, a lecturer in Chinese Studies at the Center for Contemporary Chinese Studies Asia Institute. After years of studying labor rights, civil society, and Chinese investment in Cambodia, Ivan's work led him to the online scam industry and the cybercrime compounds that have spread across Southeast Asia. He is the co-author of Scam: Inside Southeast Asia's Cybercrime Compounds, and through the EOS Collective, he and his colleagues also help support people who have been trafficked into these operations. I talk with Ivan about how small scam operations grew into large compounds, why COVID helped the industry expand, and how fake job offers are used to recruit people from around the world. We also talk about the blurred line between victim and criminal, the local economies that grow around…

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