About this episode

The episode discusses the implications of nuclear weapons on indirect conflict and US-China competition.

Nuclear weapons may make direct war between major powers less likely, but they do not end competition. Instead, they push states toward indirect forms of conflict: proxy warfare, security force assistance, covert action, and cyber operations. The guests discuss why indirect conflict is so attractive in an era of nuclear risk, how this logic applies to Ukraine and Taiwan, and what it means for US-China competition. They also consider whether the United States is adequately preparing for the kinds of conflicts it is most likely to face: not large-scale conventional wars, but persistent competition through indirect conflict. The academic foundation for the episode is the following article: Kyle Atwell and David Logan (2026), “Shadow Wars in the Shadow of the Bomb: The Link Between Nuclear Weapons and Indirect Conflict,” Journal of Conflict Resolution. General Richard D. Clarke, US Army, retired, served as the twelfth commander of US Special Operations Command. He previously served as Director for Strategic Plans and Policy on the Joint Staff, commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, commandant of cadets at West Point, and director of operations at Joint Special Operations Command…

People in this episode

Guests: General Richard D. Clarke, Dr. David Logan, Dr. Kyle Atwell

Topics covered

• nuclear weapons
• indirect conflict
• proxy warfare
• US-China competition
• security force assistance
• cyber operations

Keywords

• nuclear weapons
• indirect conflict
• proxy warfare
• US-China relations
• security studies

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: Irregular Warfare Initiative, Journal of Conflict Resolution

Books & works: Shadow Wars in the Shadow of the Bomb: The Link Between Nuclear Weapons and Indirect Conflict

Places: Ukraine, Taiwan, United States, China

More episodes of Irregular Warfare Podcast

• Innovation Under Fire: What WWII’s Commandos Teach Us About War and the Future of Special Operations · July 21, 2026 · 51 min
• From NATO to the Gulf: Allies, Access, and the Hidden Architecture of American Power · July 7, 2026 · 57 min

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