Irregular Warfare Podcast

Ahead of the fifth anniversary of the American withdrawal from Afghanistan this August, Dr. Colin Jackson and Colonel (Ret.) E.J. Degen join us to discuss initial insights from the Afghanistan War Commission’s work. The Afghanistan War Commission is an independent body established by the U.S. Congress to examine the key strategic, diplomatic, and operational decisions that pertain to the war in Afghanistan from June 2001 to August 2021. In particular, the episode examines what the US war in Afghanistan can teach us about the promise—and limits—of building partner armies. Summary Security force assistance was central to the US war in Afghanistan. It was the presumed exit strategy: if Afghan forces could become capable enough, the United States could reduce or end its own combat role. Yet the collapse of Afghan security forces after the final US withdrawal raises hard questions about what the United States built, why it built it, and whether the desired end state was ever realistic. The guests discuss the work of the Afghanistan War Commission and what the commission has learned thus far about US efforts to build Afghan security forces. Dr. Colin F. Jackson is the Co-Chair of the Afghanistan War Commission. He has served in a number of roles across academia and policy. Previously he served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Central Asia from 2017 to 2019. He also served as the senior Department of Defense representative to the U.S.–Taliban peace talks. His career serving in the U.S. Army and U.S. Army Reserve included a deployment to Afghanistan in 2011 as Executive Officer for Policy Planning for the Deputy Chief of Staff, Operations U.S. Forces-Afghanistan and as a senior civilian advisor to Task Force Mountain Warrior. COL (Ret.) Edmund J. “E.J.” Degen is the Executive Officer and Chief of the Military Operations & Security Forces Assistance Team at the Afghanistan War Commission. He is a retired career U.S. Army field artillery officer who rose to the rank of colonel and most recently served as the director of the Chief of Staff, Army’s Operation Enduring Freedom Study Group. He commanded artillery units at all levels through the brigade and served as the V Corps (U.S.) chief of plans for the Iraq invasion at the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom, chief of future operations for U.S. Forces Korea, and chief of staff for Combined Joint Interagency Task Force 435 in Afghanistan. He has coauthored two official U.S. Army histories; Modern War in an Ancient Land: The U.S. Army in Afghanistan, 2001-2014, and On Point, The United States Army in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Alexandra Chinchilla and Kyle Atwell are the hosts for this episode. Please reach out to them with any questions about the episode or IWI. The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners to support the community of irregular warfare professionals. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for (always free!) access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources. All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. Intro music: “Unsilenced” by Ketsa Outro music: “Launch” by Ketsa

As we close out the year, we're re-releasing our most popular episode of 2025: Ukraine's Hidden Front--The Strategic Impact of Resistance Operations. In this episode, we explore the cost and benefits of Ukrainian partisan activity and what resistance operations mean for Ukraine's broader war aims. As always, thanks for listening, and keep warfare irregular.

Episode 142 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast features Dr. Jonathan Schroden, Mick Crnkovich, and Dave Maxwell for a deep dive into the Pentagon’s new irregular warfare policy instruction—DoD Instruction 3000.07—and what it signals about how the U.S. military understands, organizes for, and competes in irregular conflict. The discussion opens with why the Department of Defense updated its irregular warfare guidance after two decades of counterterrorism operations and amid renewed strategic competition with state adversaries. The guests explain how the new instruction reflects a shift away from a terrorism-centric framework toward recognizing irregular warfare as a persistent and central feature of great power competition. The panel then turns to the most contested element of the policy: the definition of irregular warfare itself. Jon, Mick, and Dave debate whether IW should be understood as a method of warfare, a theory of victory, or a distinct form of competition—arguing that while the definition matters, the real test will be whether the joint force changes how it plans, trains, and operates. The episode closes with a hard look at whether DoDI 3000.07 will translate into meaningful institutional change. The guests assess persistent obstacles to operationalizing IW—including force design, resourcing, and planning culture—and emphasize that success will depend on leadership more than policy language. Influence, not firepower, they argue, will be the most decisive component of competition in today’s security environment.

Episode 140 is a bonus episode built out of conversations held with panelists from the 2025 Irregular Warfare Initiative and Special Operations Association of America South America in Competition Conference. The South America in Competition Conference brought together over 250 researchers, practitioners, and members of industry for two days at the Carahsoft Headquarters in the DC area. The first day included panel discussions on irregular warfare challenges in the South America region. The second day included a detailed wargame with participation from a range of stakeholders, planned by the IWI Wargaming Division. For this bonus episode, IWI Podcast Host Jackie Giunta recorded three short conversations with conference participants following their panel presentations. First, IWI podcast host Jackie Giunta is joined by Dr. John Stockton, co-founder of Quantifind, Dave Cook from the Special Operations Association of America, and Dr. Ryan Berg from the Americas Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies to discuss using open source intelligence to track illicit financial networks. Next, Catherine Woods from the Institute for Financial Integrity discusses illicit financial flows and tools of economic statecraft to counter them. Last, Phil Fuster, a Vice President at SpyCloud, further discusses the importance of OSINT and the need to refocus on relationships in South America. Introducing and closing the episode are Doug Livermore, the IWI Director of Engagements, and Umar Ahmed Badami, Director of the IWI Wargaming Division. They also both planned this major event. Kyle Atwell provided editorial support for this episode. If you have an idea for a future event or war-game IWI should run, want to get involved in events, or want to provide material support so IWI can continue these important conversations - reach out to Doug or Umar directly. All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. Intro music: “Unsilenced” by KetsaOutro music: “Launch” by Ketsa

Episode 138 is a bonus episode built out of conversations held with panelists from the 2025 Irregular Warfare Initiative and Special Operations Association of America South America in Competition Conference. The South America in Competition Conference brought together over 250 researchers, practitioners, and members of industry for two days at the Carahsoft Headquarters in the DC area. The first day included panel discussions on irregular warfare challenges in the South America region. The second day included a detailed wargame with participation from a range of stakeholders, planned by the IWI Wargaming Division. For this bonus episode, IWI Podcast Host Jackie Giunta recorded four short conversations with conference participants following their panel presentations. First, Will Walker from Onebrief examines whether PRC strategy in South America is coercive or benign. Next, Adam Fife, the CEO of CenCore, discusses Chinese debt trap diplomacy. Third, Leland Lazarus discusses how China’s economic statecraft is another form of irregular warfare. Last, Dr. Evan Ellis, Professor of Latin American Studies at the U.S. Army War College, provides a broad overview of China’s strategy in South America. Introducing and closing the episode are Doug Livermore, the IWI Director of Engagements, and Umar Ahmed Badami, Director of the IWI Wargaming Division. They also both planned this major event. Kyle Atwell provided editorial support for this episode. If you have an idea for a future event or wargame IWI should run, want to get involved in events, or want to provide material support so IWI can continue these important conversations - reach out to Doug or Umar directly. Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources. All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. Intro music: “Unsilenced” by Ketsa Outro music: “Launch” by Ketsa