What the Return-to-Office Debate Gets Wrong
From The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant by Vox Media Podcast Network
April 30, 2026 · 50 min
About this episode
Brené Brown and Adam Grant discuss the return-to-office debate, emphasizing the need to address underlying problems rather than just logistics.
In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant dive into the return‑to‑office debate and argue that most conversations are stuck at the wrong level. Instead of asking “How many days in the office?”, they ask, “What problem are you actually trying to solve?” They explore evidence on hybrid work, weak‑tie innovation, culture and belonging, and why some leaders still cling to “butts in seats” as a proxy for performance. Along the way, they introduce a systems‑thinking “iceberg” tool for getting below the surface of policy fights to the patterns, structures, and mental models driving them. You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop). 0:00 - What’s Surprising Us About This Podcast? 1:49 - Return to Office 22:06 - Challenging Your Return to Office Mental Model 34:15 - Birth Order 40:18 - Tradeoff Between Authenticity and Editing https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/peps.12641 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/worklife-with-adam-grant-the-dos-and-donts/id1346314086?i=1000565464077 https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/workplace/the-real-meaning-of-freedom-at-work-11633704877…
People in this episode
Hosts: Brené Brown, Adam Grant
Topics covered
- return to office
- hybrid work
- work culture
- leadership
- systems thinking
Keywords
- return to office
- hybrid work
- work culture
- leadership
- performance
- systems thinking
- innovation
Mentioned in this episode
Organizations: Vox Media Podcast Network
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