The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

This episode is a master class in coaching as Aiko Bethea, one of the most respected senior leadership coaches in the country, takes Brené through a current leadership conflict in real time, showing just how hard it is to slow down and lead from your values instead of your urgency. The coaching session is underpinned by Aiko's new "Anchored, Aligned, and Accountable" framework that focuses on why self-leadership is so critical in today's complex operating environment. Together, they dig into the difference between assuming good intent and believing someone is doing the best they can, and why that distinction changes what accountability actually looks like in practice. Aiko also introduces and models the powerful coaching practice of "three levels of listening" and how it's central to developing a coaching mindset. Aiko Bethea — Aiko Bethea, aikobethea.com Dare to Lead Hub — Brené Brown, brenebrown.com Audre Lorde — Mariana Brandman, 2021, National Women's History Museum bell hooks — Asami Robledo-Allen Yamamoto, 2025, National Women's History Museum RARE Coaching | Aiko Bethea (@rare_coach) — Aiko Bethea, n.d., Instagram Psychological Safety and Learning Behavior in Work Teams — Amy Edmondson, 1999, Administrative Science Quarterly This Is Our Reminder of What Courageous Leadership Looks Like — Brené Brown, 2026, LinkedIn One of the Greatest Joys of My Career Has Been… — Brené Brown, 2026, LinkedIn Futurist Amy Webb on What's Coming (and What's Here) — Brené Brown, 2024, Dare to Lead podcast Brené with Aiko Bethea on Inclusivity at Work: The Heart of Hard Conversations — Brené Brown, 2020, Dare to Lead podcast Rising Strong — Brené Brown, 2015, Random House Feeling Powerless at Work? Here's Where Your Agency Still Lives — Jessi Hempel, 2026, Hello Monday with Jessi Hempel Without Accountability, Just Throw It All Away — Aiko Bethea, 2023, LinkedIn (Street Lights newsletter) Post on Learning and Development (#learninganddevelopment) — Aiko Bethea, 2026, LinkedIn Dare to Lead — Brené Brown, 2018, Random House Stop Outsourcing Your Judgment: Brené Brown in Conversation with Leadership Coach Aiko Bethea — Brené Brown, 2026, Fast Company Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the fourth episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam explore the attack on empathy, the difference between cognitive empathy and affective empathy, and what separates empathy from enmeshment. Brené shares a personal story that led to a breakthrough around how to stay aligned with empathy and perspective taking instead of over-identifying and finding yourself in enmeshment — the feeling of not knowing where you end and someone else begins. They also discuss how living in an image-heavy world can affect the way we engage with empathy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices