Charles Murray On Human Diversity (Re-Aired)

Charles Murray On Human Diversity (Re-Aired)

August 28, 2026 · 1h 56m

About this episode

Andrew Sullivan re-interviews Charles Murray about his book 'Human Diversity' and the controversies surrounding his work.

(The full Dish returns on September 4. In the meantime, we are re-airing a handful of the most downloaded episodes from the early years of the Dishcast.) Charles is a writer, social scientist, and longtime friend. He currently holds the F.A. Hayek Chair Emeritus in Cultural Studies at AIE, and his many books include Losing Ground , The Bell Curve (co-authored with Richard Herrnstein), Coming Apart , Facing Reality , and Taking Religion Seriously (which we covered last year ). In this May 2021 pod, he and I discussed Human Diversity — a book that received little attention compared to the others. If you think you know who Charles is from the way the MSM has portrayed him for years, this conversation may surprise you. Like Cornel West , Charles is a one-off: absurdly brave (or dumb) in wading into truly touchy subjects, and always with reason. In many ways, I think if we’d been able to have a serious debate about The Bell Curve all those years ago — and I tried to encourage one — we might have avoided some awful subsequent mistakes. But we resorted to abuse and hysteria and went on to enact Woke 1.0 and, now, Woke 2.0. Go here for a polished transcript of Charles. We also have three…

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