About this episode

Julia Dhar discusses the behavioral science behind successful organizational change and shares practical strategies for leaders.

Why do so many organizational change initiatives fail? This week, we’re joined by behavioral economist Julia Dhar, co-author of How Change Really Works, to explore the behavioral science behind successful change. From curiosity and anxiety to psychological safety, AI, and the difference between change fatigue and change disappointment, Julia shares practical strategies that help leaders turn good ideas into lasting change. Topics [0:00] Introduction and speed round with Julia Dhar [10:34] The "cockpit" metaphor for leadership [17:28] Why "if you build it, they will come" doesn't work [22:13] Communication, alignment, and executive blind spots [29:08] Curiosity and anxiety during change [32:15] Gathering honest employee feedback [36:47] Leadership's role in successful transformation [38:52] Change fatigue vs. change disappointment [44:47] Why endings matter more than leaders realize [49:14] AI adoption and organizational behavior [53:27] Jazz, orchestras, and the art of change [58:09] Desert island music picks [1:04:14] Grooving Session: Turning anxiety into engagement ©2026 Behavioral Grooves Links About Julia How Change Really Works by Julia Dhar, Kristy Ellmer, and Philip…

People in this episode

Hosts: Kurt Nelson, Tim Houlihan

Guest: Julia Dhar

Topics covered

• organizational change
• behavioral science
• leadership
• employee feedback
• psychological safety
• AI adoption
• change management

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: Behavioral Grooves

Products: Imagine Dragons - Believer, Matthew Wilder - Break My Stride

Books & works: How Change Really Works

More episodes of Behavioral Grooves Podcast

• Climate Advice You’ve Never Heard | Liz Dunn & Jiaying Zhao · July 20, 2026 · 1h 8m
• The Real Danger of AI (Part 1) · July 16, 2026 · 28 min
• Throwback Monday: Does Democracy Need a Rebrand? | AJ Jacobs · July 6, 2026 · 1h 12m
• The Godfather of Influence: The Lasting Impact of Robert Cialdini, Part 3 · July 2, 2026 · 1h 9m
• The Godfather of Influence: What Makes Bob Bob, Part 2 · June 29, 2026 · 1h 20m
• The Godfather of Influence: How Robert Cialdini Changed the World, Part 1 · June 25, 2026 · 1h 14m

Explore listener stats, chart rankings, contacts and more on the Behavioral Grooves Podcast podcast page.