About this episode

Jen Hatmaker and Shannan Martin discuss how to hold grief and joy simultaneously in a heavy world.

Description:What do we do when the world feels like too much? When the headlines won’t let up, when grief and uncertainty sit heavy in our bodies, when we’re carrying more than we ever thought we could—how do we keep going without numbing out or falling apart? This week, Jen sits down with beloved writer and friend Shannan Martin to talk about her new book Counterweights, a tender, practical guide for living with hope in a heavy world. At the center of Shannan’s work is a deceptively simple idea: when life gets heavy, we don’t eliminate the weight—we learn to carry something equally weighty in the other hand. Not balance. Not denial. But both/and. Together, Jen and Shannan explore what it means to hold grief and joy at the same time, to resist despair without turning away from reality, and to find steady ground in the middle of it all. They talk about community as survival, faith that evolves and expands, and the small, ordinary moments that become lifelines when everything feels overwhelming. This conversation is a fitting close to our Wilderness & Wonder exploration—because if the wilderness strips us down to what’s real, Shannan helps us ask: what will hold us up now? If…

People in this episode

Host: Jen Hatmaker

Guest: Shannan Martin

Topics covered

• grief
• joy
• hope
• community
• faith
• resilience

Keywords

• grief
• joy
• hope
• Counterweights
• community
• faith
• resilience
• overwhelm
• self-care

Mentioned in this episode

Books & works: Counterweights

More episodes of For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

• Molly Sims on Midlife Confidence (That Doesn’t Come From Perfection) · April 29, 2026 · 1h 6m
• We Will Not Be Aging Quietly: Claiming Your Most Powerful Season with Katie Fogarty · April 22, 2026 · 52 min
• [ENCORE] Your Body Deserves Pleasure Too: A Conversation with Vanessa Marin · April 17, 2026 · 59 min
• Fertility Is a Health Marker: The Bigger Picture of Hormones and Women’s Health with Dr. Natalie Crawford · April 15, 2026 · 1h 4m
• March 2026 JHBC: Allen Levi’s Theo of Golden · April 10, 2026 · 49 min
• Kate Bowler on the Ache That Makes Us Human—and the Joy That Makes Us Whole · April 8, 2026 · 1h 2m

Explore listener stats, chart rankings, contacts and more on the For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast podcast page.