About this episode

Brené Brown and Adam Grant discuss the importance of courageous leadership and the operationalization of values in this episode recorded at Authors@Wharton.

In this Re:Thinking podcast episode recorded at Authors@Wharton, Brené joined Adam to dig into her book, Strong Ground. They explore why courage now has to mean being a learner instead of a knower, and why values aren't just what you care about-- they're what you sacrifice for. The conversation moves through the four skill sets of courage, why a value that isn't operationalized into behavior is just a poster with an eagle on it, and how to use the "story I'm making up" framework for hard conversations. They also get into executive presence, vulnerability, care, and why fake courage is easy to spot. Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House Research – Brené Brown (n.d.). The discovery of grounded theory – Glaser & Strauss, 1967, Aldine Awareness of dying – Glaser & Strauss, 1965, Aldine De-tabooing dying control – Thulesius et al., 2013, BMC Palliative Care Never Split The Difference – Chris Voss, May 24, 2016, TEDx University of Nevada Expectancy Theory (Victor Vroom) – The Decision Lab, (n.d.) Dare to lead: List of values – Brené Brown, 2018 Dare to Lead Hub – Brené Brown Brené…

People in this episode

Host: Adam Grant

Guest: Brené Brown

Topics covered

• courageous leadership
• vulnerability
• executive presence
• values
• hard conversations

Keywords

• courage
• leadership
• values
• vulnerability
• executive presence

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: Random House, Harvard Business Review, University of Texas at Austin, Vox Media Podcast Network

Books & works: Strong Ground, Dare to Lead, Never Split The Difference, The New Rules of Executive Presence

More episodes of The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

• You Don't Get an A for Effort · July 16, 2026 · 39 min
• Time Scarcity and Pocket Presence · July 9, 2026 · 38 min
• Sports as Leadership Theater and Recognizing Near Enemies · July 2, 2026 · 43 min
• The Highest Performance Strategy is Caring About People ft. Simon Sinek · June 18, 2026 · 1h 21m

Explore listener stats, chart rankings, contacts and more on the The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant podcast page.