About this episode

Nicole Kalil and Dr. Zoe Shaw discuss the deep-rooted issue of complex shame and its impact on identity and self-worth.

We talk a lot about people-pleasing, perfectionism, overachieving, anxiety, and self-doubt. But what if those aren’t actually the root problem? What if they’re symptoms of something deeper, heavier, and far more hidden? In this episode, Nicole sits down with Dr. Zoe Shaw — licensed psychotherapist, relationship coach, speaker, podcast host, and author of Stronger in the Difficult Places — to unpack the uncomfortable but life-changing topic of complex shame. Not the fleeting embarrassment kind. The deep, identity-level shame that quietly shapes how we see ourselves, what we believe we deserve, and how small or safe we allow ourselves to play in life. Dr. Zoe shares her own deeply personal story and explains how shame develops, how it disguises itself as “normal” behavior, and why healing requires more than just positive affirmations and surface-level self-help. This conversation dives into trauma, self-worth, people-pleasing, boundaries, vulnerability, confirmation bias, and the stories we carry about ourselves — often without realizing it. In This Episode, We Explore: The difference between guilt, shame, and complex shame Why people-pleasing and perfectionism may actually be…

People in this episode

Host: Nicole Kalil

Guest: Dr. Zoe Shaw

Topics covered

• complex shame
• self-worth
• people-pleasing
• perfectionism
• trauma
• boundaries

Keywords

• shame
• anxiety
• self-doubt
• overachieving
• vulnerability
• healing

Mentioned in this episode

Books & works: Stronger in the Difficult Places

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