ABA Journal Podcasts - Legal Talk Network

If you look at this year’s ABA Techshow advertising material, you could be forgiven for thinking that you were reading a comic book. Between the cartoon-style illustrations and the comic book-style captions and headings on the brochure and website, it’s clear what motif that the Techshow planners were going for was. Perhaps that’s appropriate, given how quickly generative artificial intelligence tools have established a foothold in the legal industry. Like a superhero—or perhaps more accurately, a superhero’s sidekick—AI has helped save the day for a lot of lawyers.

In 2025, we saw greater adoption of generative artificial intelligence tools across all areas of the legal industry. Will 2026 bring more of the same? Or will there be a backlash or reaction of some sort? What about the regulatory landscape for AI? Will 2026 bring federal guidelines, or will we have to wait for 2027 or beyond?

According to an October report from the Association of Corporate Counsel, generative AI use among in-house lawyers has more than doubled over the last year. More than half of respondents are now actively using generative AI in their practice—compared to only 23% in 2024. The survey also said two-thirds of respondents are using it so that they can eventually rely less on outside counsel, and over 60% are likely to push for a change in how legal services are priced.

When Clio announced that it had acquired global legal research platform vLex for $1 billion in June, it was the latest in a series of big moves from the cloud-based practice management software company.

As Native American Day approaches on September 25, we’re revisiting a story that still resonates today. Author David Grann takes us inside the Osage murders—a chilling chapter in U.S. history where oil wealth brought tragedy, corruption, and the rise of the FBI. ----- Although the Osage tribe had been forced from their ancestral lands by the U.S. government, through shrewd and careful bargaining they retained the mineral rights to one of the richest oil fields in the world: Osage County, Oklahoma. But instead of insuring the prosperity and safety of the tribe, the wealth of the Osage made them targets for what was later known as the Reign of Terror. The task of solving dozens of murders fell in the 1920s to the newly formed FBI and its young director, J. Edgar Hoover. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, author David Grann tells the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles how he first learned of this series of murders and decided to write Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI. He also discusses the brave Osage woman at the heart of his story, Mollie Burkhart, who defied the local white-dominated power structure to discover who was responsible for the deaths of her family members. Mentioned in This Episode: Killers of the Flower Moon: The Osage Murders and the Birth of the FBI by David Grann

As summer winds down and school beckons, we’re looking back in our archives and assigning some back-to-school reading—grown-up style. In this episode, Professor Kathryne M. Young shares advice from her book How to Be Sort of Happy in Law School—from tackling imposter syndrome to finding your own path through law school’s pressures. —-- Law school can be a lonely, stressful time, and it’s easy to feel like you’re failing to fit the model of the perfect law student. But there’s no one right way to go to law school, says Professor Kathryne M. Young, author of How to Be Sort of Happy in Law School; you can craft your own experience. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, Young talks with the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles about tackling imposter syndrome; advice that alumni wish they could give their younger selves; and techniques for getting along with your fellow students. Young uses lessons from her own law school experience and a sociological study she conducted to give practical tips for keeping a mental balance; choosing which courses and activities to pursue; managing the practical aspects of your household and budget; forming relationships with mentors and peers–and even deciding when if it’s time to leave law school altogether. Young’s book offers a holistic approach to surviving–and thriving–under the social, academic and economic pressures of law school.

For decades, the Uniform Bar Examination has been old school, with bar candidates using paper-and-pencil exam books. But starting with the first administration of the NextGen UBE next year, the test will be entirely conducted on the examinees’ personal computers. The ABA Journal’s Julianne Hill talks with Kara Smith, the National Conference of Bar Examiners’ chief product officer.

This month, we're revisiting some standout conversations from our archives. In this episode, three seasoned trial court judges reflect on the cases that have stayed with them throughout their years on the bench. ----- All judges have cases that stick with them and linger in their memories. Sometimes it was because of the high profile of the case, and sometimes an obscure case had personal resonance because of the people or issues involved. In this episode of the Modern Law Library, the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles speaks with Judges Russell F. Canan, Gregory E. Mize and Frederick H. Weisberg, who all sit on the Superior Court of the District of Columbia. The three judges were contributors to and the editors of “Tough Cases: Judges Tell the Stories of Some of the Hardest Decisions They’ve Ever Made.” Canan, Mize and Weisberg share their own stories, including why Canan’s well-meant gesture to avert an injustice in a gun case still troubles him. Mize explains why a child-custody case haunted him for decades, and what happened when he tracked down the now-grown child as he was deciding whether to write about it for “Tough Cases.” Weisberg talks about dealing with the emotional fallout from overseeing a case where a mother had murdered her four children.

Laura Cowan started her career in finance, earning a CPA and working at Ernst & Young and Goldman Sachs. When she decided to go to law school at 35, she knew that she wanted to launch a boutique firm with a practice area that complemented that financial background. Estate law seemed a good fit—but fate threw her a curve ball just as she launched her firm.“I had to turn my entire practice virtual overnight in 2020 in New York City because of COVID,” Cowan tells the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles in this episode of the Modern Law Library. “I moved to Rhode Island to shelter in place with my dad. During that couple of months that I was sheltering in place, I still had to get my law firm running. I had a business to run and bills to pay. So I made everything virtual, and I really streamlined everything. And what I found was that I could make pretty easily $10,000 a month, working just a couple of hours a day.” She has now leveraged the experience of launching an all-virtual estate-planning practice into a coaching program, 2-Hour Lifestyle Lawyer, to help other lawyers launch similar practices. Her new book, Lifestyle Lawyer Revolution: Live a Life You Love (Without Leaving the Law), is full of tips and advice for building a personalized practice to provide work-life balance for attorneys. “Now, what we found is that there’s a lot of lawyers who are happy working a lot more than that and are happy earning a lot more, but the name of the business really comes from just this idea that you can still be a really great attorney without working 10 hours a day, and you can make a nice living without working 10 hours a day,” says Cowan. A key part of not working too many hours is to hire appropriate assistance, even as a solo just starting out, says Cowan. “What I see a lot of is lawyers that spend too much time in the weeds of executing and doing all these different things that an admin could be doing, and not spending enough time doing what the lawyer should be focusing on,” says Cowan. “So they’re both working too much and not making enough money, which is the worst possible combination.” Cowan encourages estate attorneys to hold community workshops to help people understand the importance of wills and trusts. She says it’s an excellent way to establish connections that can lead to further business. “The real reason that people hire us is because of the connection,” Cowan tells Rawles. “And I firmly believe this. People don’t hire you because you’re the best drafter in the world. They hire you because of the way that you make them feel. So use AI and technology behind the scenes to help you get your work done and deliver a really great client experience, but never forget that it’s going to be that that makes them hire you.” In this episode, Cowan also discusses the benefits of value-based pricing versus the billable hour; attracting the client base you want to target; and how to deal with your biggest frenemy: technology.

When Arizona changed its ethics rules in 2020 opening the door for alternative business structures and nonlawyer ownership for law firms, it sent shock waves throughout the legal industry. Nicole Miller, the chief legal officer of LegalZoom, speaks to the ABA Journal's Victor Li about LegalZoom’s experience in Arizona thus far, as well as general issues relating to regulatory reform and alternative business structures.

Matthew Dixon, co-founder of DCM Insights, is a researcher who’s spent much of his career studying the shared characteristics and behaviors of successful B2B salespeople. In 2011, he released a study called “The Challenger Sale.” While giving a keynote on his findings at an annual partner retreat, an audience member stood up and challenged him. “He said, ‘Dr. Dixon, you’ve been talking for 45 minutes about sales effectiveness and salespeople and selling and sales process, and it’s all very fascinating and I’m sure our clients would be very interested in this,’” Dixon recounts to the ABA Journal’s Lee Rawles in this episode of The Modern Law Library. “‘And after all, we do a lot of consulting around go-to-market strategy. But what maybe you don’t recognize is that we are partners at our firm. We are not salespeople. In fact, there’s not a single salesperson in this audience. I might go so far as to say we don’t sell anything here.’” Dixon was taken aback. “What I realized was this world of partnerships, of professional services, of doer-sellers is actually quite a bit different from the world of sales and what we had written and all this research we’d done over the years.” In 2022, he tackled this population with the Rainmaker Genome Project, a study that became the basis for The Activator Advantage: What Today’s Rainmakers Do Differently, co-written by Dixon, Rory Channer, Karen Freeman and Ted McKenna. The Rainmaker Genome Project surveyed 3,000 partner-level professionals in 41 firms across law, public relations, accounting and investment banking. About 39% of respondents were lawyers. Each received a score for effectiveness in business development and were analyzed for how they provided client services. And it turns out that partner was correct: What makes a lawyer an effective rainmaker is not necessarily what makes a salesperson effective. After doing a vector analysis on the data, “what we found was that every one of those 3,000 professionals could be placed into one of five business development profiles,” says Dixon. The five profiles were the expert, the confidant, the debater, the challenger and the activator. Dixon stresses that the five categories are not about personality. While personalities are immutable, behaviors can be changed. “These are about the things we can all learn to be better at,” says Dixon. “It’s about how we spend our time, how we engage clients, how we use resources, how we collaborate with colleagues—and those are things we can all get better at with the right training, coaching and support from our firms.” In this episode, Dixon expands on each type, but the most effective performers in business development were the activators. “The reason we chose the term ‘activator’ instead of ‘connector’—people have asked—is that they’re not about collecting business cards and letting them collect dust or just hoarding LinkedIn connections,” Dixon tells Rawles. “What these folks do is try to turn these relationships into paying client relationships. They activate those relationships by proactively bringing new ideas—ways to mitigate risk, make money, save money—to clients.” Dixon offers practical advice on how to behave like an activator, including the most effective ways to use LinkedIn. Lawyers and other client-servicing professionals can’t just sit back and wait for business to find them, he warns. “Whether we like to admit it or not, clients are less loyal today than they once were,” he says. “They’re less likely to come back automatically to their incumbent provider. No matter how great the relationship or the value you’ve delivered, they’re forcing us to compete in ways we didn’t have to in the past. So activators want a backup plan. They know today’s great client might not be a client tomorrow, no matter what you’ve done. So you need a backup plan.”

For nearly 30 years, Richard Susskind has written books asking lawyers to envision the future of the law and the legal profession in ways that stretch the imagination. Susskind has been one of the foremost proponents of the transformative potential of technology in legal services. Now, he's asking us to imagine larger transformation still: a world in which AI reigns and humanity faces being sidelined. Susskind was an early and enthusiastic booster of the development of artificial intelligence, he tells the ABA Journal's Lee Rawles in this episode of the Modern Law Library. He first became enamored of its potential as a law student in the 1980s, and wrote his doctorate at the University of Oxford on AI and the law in 1986. But the speed and direction of recent advances have given him pause. Will AI be a tool for humanity, or its destruction? In his new book, How to Think About AI: A Guide for the Perplexed, he hopes to help the layperson navigate the issues raised by artificial intelligence, and provoke a global discussion about the ethical and legal implications. Technology is too important to be left only to the technologists, he says. While most people are able to see the promise of AI for professions other than their own, Susskind sees a phenomenon he calls "not-us thinking" when most people are asked if their own work could be taken over by an AI system. Lawyers should be careful not to overestimate clients' attachment to having a human lawyer if their goal is simply to avoid legal pitfalls and they can rely on an AI system to accomplish that. In this episode, Susskind discusses the promise of AI for increasing access to justice, and talks about some of the ethical decisions that will have to be made with Rawles, who is more of an AI skeptic.