AfterShock: Leadership for the 5th Industrial Revolution with Caroline Stokes

In this special episode timed for the World Economic Forum annual meeting, Caroline Stokes sits down with Gil Forer, a contractor and former senior partner with EY, to explore our new leadership reality and why leaders must act now—deploy, adopt, adapt, and learn publicly—because the gap will widen if they wait.They discuss why the past five years have supercharged change and introduce “NAVI”, our nonlinear, accelerated, volatile, and interconnected world. Gil and Caroline also explore why many traditional leadership tools (strategy, risk, governance, transformation roadmaps) are now not fit for purpose.They tackle the shift from VUCA to VUCA+/NAVI, why there’s no single future (only “futures”), and what it means to lead toward a superfluid enterprise—less hierarchy, more networked orchestration, and an entirely new relationship between humans, AI agents, and cognition.If you’re a CEO, senior leader, board member, or strategist trying to navigate AI, geopolitical instability, climate volatility, and compressed reinvention, this episode will give you language, frameworks, and a clear urgency. You can’t sit on the sidelines in 2026.In this episode:The new nature of change: why disruption isn’t new, but post-pandemic change is different—nonlinear, accelerated, volatile, interconnected.Not fit for purpose: why many legacy approaches no longer match reality.Rethink the foundations: why “rethink” isn’t a weekend exercise but deep cognitive work to rewrite long-held assumptions.No-regret moves: what leaders can do now that they won’t regret later, especially around resilience, agility, and operating flexibility.VUCA+/NAVI: why VUCA isn’t “gone”, but it’s incomplete; how NAVI better reflects today’s conditions, and why mindset updates matter.“Futures” is plural: why there’s no one linear path, and how that changes strategy, foresight, and decision-making.Importance of systems thinking: why design thinking helps with complicated problems, but systems thinking is essential for complex systems.Ecosystems as a leadership capability: moving beyond partnerships to orchestration—building fluid, issue-based coalitions in a fast-shifting world.Trust as hard currency: reframing trust as a strategic asset—invest, measure, and treat it like currency.Migration as economic infrastructure: why leaders should reframe migration as a strategic asset requiring investment, planning, and community-level thinking.AI as infrastructure: why AI isn’t just a technology wave—it’s an infrastructure play (compute, energy, data centres) reshaping power and access.The mic-drop leadership scenario: “What happens if I have 10 people and 50,000 agents?” How leadership, incentives, productivity, and teamwork get rewritten.Neuroscience & the human-machine era: why understanding cognition and behaviour design matters when we’re augmenting human work at scale.More about Gil ForerGil is an intrapreneur and connector who thrives at the intersection of emerging technology, strategic foresight, and human collaboration. His career has centred on building what’s next: founding global innovation platforms, shaping future-thinking ecosystems, and advising leading organizations and high-growth start-ups on how to anticipate change and unlock new markets. As a senior partner at EY, he launched and led global businesses that transformed how organizations innovate and scale, including EY wavespace, a network of experience hubs helping companies accelerate meaningful outcomes, and EYQ, a think tank exploring “what’s after what’s next” for CEOs and boards. He created the Innovation Realized Summit, a uniquely immersive and experience-based forum uniting business, government, and academic leaders to shape the future of enterprise. Gil also convened networks of experts and thought leaders to advise on business challenges. Currently Gil is a part-time contractor with EY where he leads several initiatives around AI, foresight, and start-ups.

What if the most iconic toy on the planet is reinventing how humans and AI create together? In this conversation, Caroline sits down with Rudi Anggono, until very recently the Director of Creative Innovation at LEGO, to discuss leading a cultural, creative, and technological shift inside one of the world’s most beloved brands.If someone in your house unwrapped a LEGO set last week, this episode is the bridge from the familiar bricks on your floor… to the future of creative work, AI-augmented imagination, and how culture inside legacy companies must evolve.Rudi shares:• how he created his own role at LEGO by identifying a hidden organizational gap• why he believes AI can save creative roles rather than replace them• how he’s been using micro-experiments to build confidence, not fear, across teams• what “system in play” really means — and how LEGO’s design philosophy mirrors the future of work• why leaders must talk to their youngest team members if they want to stay relevant• how to create an owner mindset inside in-house creative teams• the mindset shift every leader needs to make in 2026 to thrive in the AI/creative explosion.This episode is a masterclass in creativity, systems thinking, and human-centred innovation from inside one of the most recognizable brands on Earth.In the short time since recording this podcast, Rudi has been named Global Head of Creative at Snap.More about Rudi AnggonoRudi is the new Global Head of Creative at Snap. He was previously the Head of Creative Innovation at the LEGO Group, where he led its integrated creative team within Product and Marketing Development and collaborated with Creative Play Lab on new product ideas.With a career spanning advertising, product design, and research, he has shaped iconic global brands and experiences. Formerly Global Executive Creative Director at Beyond X and Google Commerce UX, his patented design work influenced Google Travel and sustainability initiatives recognized by Sundar Pichai at the UN. Previously Head of Creative at Google ZOO and Executive Creative Director at TBWA\Paris for Nissan Europe, Rudi’s award-winning work includes Cannes Lions, EFFIEs, and an Emmy Award.https://www.linkedin.com/in/rudianggono/

I wanted to talk about next year right now.In this wide-ranging and unflinchingly honest conversation, Brookings Institution Senior Fellow Darrell M. West returns to the AfterShock podcast with a clear message: the pace of change has now broken the boundaries of what leaders once thought manageable.We talk about:• The macro trends already defining 2026: AI acceleration, climate volatility, geopolitical instability, authoritarian drift• Why white-collar workers should be just as prepared for AI displacement as entry-level roles• Whether Universal Basic Income is finally becoming unavoidable• The truth about CEO layoffs during record-profit years• How authoritarian decision-making is rising inside corporations, universities and governments• The warning sign every CEO should pay attention to in 2026• What’s coming in the space economy • How global inequity in AI infrastructure (like data centres) could destabilize the Global North• The one leadership trait Darrell believes will determine who thrives in the next two years• Why every leader must shift to a one-to-two-year strategy horizon — not 10.This is required listening for any CEO, CTO, board member or policy leader preparing for the Fifth IndustrialRevolution.With Darrell’s direct and sober diagnosis, and with these insights and momentum to shift, we can move forward with some sense of purpose and intention.More about Darrell M. WestDarrell M. West is a senior fellow in the Center for Technology Innovation within the Governance Studies program at the Brookings Institution and a co-editor-in-chief of TechTank. West is the former vice president and director of Governance Studies. His current research focuses on artificial intelligence, robotics, and the future of work.West is also director of the John Hazen White Manufacturing Initiative. Prior to joining Brookings, he was the John Hazen White Professor of Political Science and Public Policy and director of the Taubman Center for Public Policy at Brown University.His books include “Lies That Kill: A Citizen’s Guide to Disinformation” (Brookings Press, 2024 with co-author Elaine Kamarck); “Power Politics: Trump and the Assault on American Democracy” (Brookings Press, 2022); “Turning Point: Policymaking in the Era of Artificial Intelligence” (with co-author John R. Allen; Brookings Press, 2020); “Divided Politics, Divided Nation” (Brookings Press, 2019); “The Future of Work: Robots, AI, and Automation” (Brookings Press, 2018); and “Megachange: Economic Disruption, Political Upheaval, and Social Strife in the 21st Century” (Brookings Institution Press, 2016).https://www.brookings.edu/people/darrell-m-west/

In this episode of “AfterShock to 2030”, Caroline Stokes sits down with Alison Taylor, executive director of Ethical Systems, clinical professor at NYU Stern and author of “Higher Ground”. They examine what’s next for leadership, ethics, and credibility in a world where idealism alone isn’t enough. Together, they explore:• Why overpromising on ethics and sustainability sets companies up for failure, and how to rebuild trust through realism, not rhetoric.• How AI hype is the new distraction, repeating the same leadership mistakes of the dot-com boom.• The burnout crisis inside ethics and sustainability teams, and what that reveals about leadership’s moral bandwidth.• The CEOs redefining success by choosing one issue they can lead on credibly, instead of pretending to solve everything.• Why courageous listening and proximity to impact are now the most underrated strategic skills of the Fifth Industrial Revolution. More about Alison Taylor:Alison Taylor is a clinical associate professor at NYU Stern School of Business, and the executive director at Ethical Systems. Her previous work experience includes being a managing director at non-profit business network BSR and a senior managing director at Control Risks. She holds sustainability advisory roles at KKR and Unilever, and advises many other firms on strategic integrity challenges. She has expertise in strategy, sustainability, political and social risk, culture and behavior, human rights, ethics and compliance, stakeholder engagement, anti-corruption and professional responsibility. Alison’s book, “Higher Ground: How Business Can do the Right Thing in a Turbulent World”, was published by Harvard Business Review Press in February 2024, and won the 2024 Porchlight Award for best leadership and strategy book. She received her Bachelor of Arts in Modern History from Balliol College, Oxford University, her MA in International Relations from the University of Chicago, and MA in Organizational Psychology from Columbia University.Higher Ground on Substack: https://findhigherground.substack.com/

In what Edelman has called the “Era of Grievance”, I sit down with organizational psychologist, leadership coach and author Dr. Gena Cox to explore why respect—not just diversity and inclusion—is the true foundation of healthy organizations.Together, we explore:Why DEI has been misunderstood and how leaders can reframe it as an obligation of effective leadership.A powerful case study from healthcare, showing how a “respect ethos” improved retention, engagement, and patient outcomes.The connection between respect, trust, and organizational resilience in an era of global grievance and distrust.How leaders can integrate respect-driven behaviours into culture, strategy, and everyday decision-making.In this interview, Dr. Cox provides clarity and practical tools to help leaders rebuild trust and drive the outcomes CEOs want most.This AfterShock conversation is the last in our September series on Creating Healthy Organizations, inspired by the annual conference founded by Dr. Ludmila Praslova at Vanguard University. Together, we’ve been exploring what it really takes to build organizations—and lives—that positively impact people, planet, and profit.More about Dr. Gena CoxDr. Gena Cox is an award-winning organizational psychologist, executive coach, and global thought leader who has spent over 25 years helping leaders elevate their impact and guiding them in building psychologically healthy workplaces. Named to the Thinkers50 Global Top 50 Coaches list, Gena brings a rare blend of psychological expertise, corporate leadership experience, and multicultural insight to her advisory and coaching engagements.At the heart of Gena’s work is her evidence-based argument that inclusion is a leadership imperative, not an option, which must be built on a foundation of respect. She therefore believes that respect is the foundation of effective leadership. Her proprietary R-E-S-P-E-C-T Ethos TM framework provides leaders with a practical and actionable roadmap for ensuring that every employee feels respected (Seen, Heard, and Valued) at work.Gena Cox is the author of the multiple award-winning book “Leading Inclusion: Drive Change Your Employees Can See and Feel”, a guide for leaders who want to build truly inclusive organizations from the top down. Her voice is a trusted one in the leadership space: she is a prolific writer and speaker on the intersection of leadership, psychology, and inclusion. She is a contributor to Forbes.com, and her ideas have been featured in Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Fortune, Bloomberg, The New York Times, and many other prominent business media outlets. She is frequently invited to keynote conferences and advise executive teams worldwide.Before founding Feels Human LLC, her boutique advisory and coaching firm, Gena held leadership roles in major corporations, gaining an insider’s understanding of the pressures executives face—and the practical realities of leading in high-stakes environments.Gena serves on the Professional Practice Editorial Board of the Society for Industrial and Organizational Psychology (SIOP) and chairs SIOP’s DEI White Paper Task Force. She is Chair-Elect of the American Psychological Association’s Committee for the Advancement of General and Applied Psychology (CAGAP).Gena earned her PhD in Industrial-Organizational Psychology from the University of South Florida.https://www.genacox.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/genacoxFree e-book, “25 Ways Anyone Can Help Build A Culture of Respect”:https://genacox.com/respectebook/

Where do you start to create a healthy organization in our era of climate crisis? One way is to see how your organization runs from the inside out. I discuss this in this episode of AfterShock with Erin Gallup, founder of the Hive Initiative, whose design-led “Mini Summits” are transforming how employees and leaders engage with climate, biodiversity, and wellbeing at work.In this episode we cover:1. The small step a CEO can make today: Erin recommends educating yourself and your organization by using Hive’s free Mini Summits, each with an eight-minute science segmentthat turns awareness into immediate solutions.2. Erin’s origin story: How a Silicon Valley designer left the world of shopping apps to build a climate movement rooted in design and community.3. Why design matters for climate action: Clear, simple design can shift employees from paralysis to purpose.4. Greenwashing vs. greenhushing: Why silence can be just as risky as over-claiming, and what leaders can do instead.5. The anatomy of a healthy organization between now and 2030: Resilience, psychological safety, and distributing responsibility across the workforce.6. The role of employees as climate catalysts: How younger generations are eager to contribute if leaders simply invite them in.7. The hidden costs of inaction: From fragile supply chains and biodiversity collapse toweakened social fabric and reputational damage.8. A hopeful 2030 vision: Employee-led sustainability teams as the new normal inside organizations.This special series from the AfterShock podcast is in association with the Creating Healthy Organizations Conference hosted by Vanguard University’s Graduate Organizational Psychology program. We explore what it truly takes to build healthy organizations—ones that positively impact people, planet, and profit.More about Erin Gallup:Erin Gallup is a digital product designer who spent 20 years working for Silicon Valley’s tech companies, all the while desperately wanting to use her skills to make our planet go in a better direction.After moving to Norway in 2018, she founded the Hive Initiative as a way to realise this dream, put her skills to work and meet others who wanted to do the same. Together she and her collaborators created free and downloadable Mini Summits as a way to make it easier to include employees in company sustainability efforts.Download the Mini-Summits for free: https://hiveinitiative.org/mini-summitsConnect with Erin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/egallup/

What does it really take to build organizations that positively impact people, planet, and profit in the Fifth Industrial Revolution?In this opening episode of the Creating Healthy Organizations series, in association with the AfterShock podcast, I’m joined by Dr. Ludmila Praslova, Professor of Organizational Psychology at the Patty Arvielo School of Business & Management at Vanguard University of Southern California.Ludmila is recognized as one of the world’s top management thinkers: a member of the Thinkers50 Radar Class of 2024, recipient of the 2024 PBS Difference Maker Award for her work on neurodiversity, and author of “The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging”. She is a globally respected voice in inclusivity and talent strategy, shaping how organizations adapt for resilience, innovation, and human dignity.Together, we explore:• Trust beyond wellness theatre—how to tell if your culture is truly healthy• The Do No Harm Audit™—Ludmila’s framework for identifying hidden organizational risks• Neurodiversity as strategy—why ignoring 20% of the workforce is a recipe for failure• Bias and resilience—how leaders can confront their blind spots to unlock collective intelligence• Psychological safety—what it actually means and why it’s essential for innovationThis is not a frivolous, nice-to-have conversation. We know from the US Surgeon General’s guidance, the World Economic Forum and the Edelman Trust Index that healthy organizations are the backbone of resilience in an age defined by disruption. We hope this series will inspire you.More about Ludmila Praslova:Ludmila N. Praslova, Ph.D., is a Professor of Organizational Psychology at the Patty Arvielo School of Business & Management at Vanguard University of Southern California. She is a member of the Thinkers 50 Radar Class of 2024—a global group of management thinkers who are most likely to make an impact on the world—and a recipient of the 2024 PBS Difference Maker Award for her work on neurodiversity. She is also a founder of the Creating Healthy Organizations Conference series.As a global inclusive talent strategy expert with extensive experience and research expertise in intercultural relations, dignity and civility at work, bullying and moral injury prevention, and neurodiversity, she understands both the dark and the light sides of organizational life. “The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work” (Berrett-Koehler, 2024) received multiple literary gold awards and sparked a wave of interest in major organizations and universities. Dr. Praslova has provided training to Amazon, MIT, the Michigan Department of Labor, and many other organizations across sectors.https://give.vanguard.edu/stories/inspiring-belonging-in-the-workplace-ludmila-praslova-phd/https://www.linkedin.com/company/creating-healthy-organizations-conference/https://www.facebook.com/creatinghealthyorganizationsconference/

Yasmine Abdu, CEO and founder of CarbonTrac, is on a mission to cut UK emissions by 5% by 2030. Using machine learning, partnerships with organizations including the United Nations, and a strategy to engage the entire supply chain, she’s driving change through the power of small, measurable shifts in consumer behaviour.We talk about how everyday grocery store choices can ripple throughout supply chains, why supermarkets are at the heart of this transformation, and how Yasmine combines emotional storytelling, gamification, and financial incentives to drive systemic change.What we cover:- Yasmine’s “aha” moment that sparked CarbonTrac.- Why 34% of global emissions come from food—and how supermarkets can influence the system.- The surprising maths: small swaps like dairy milk to oat milk for coffee can cut UK emissions by over 1%.- Bridging the gap between wanting to act sustainably and actually taking action (80% vs. 12%).- Using emotional incentives (“enough ice for penguins”) alongside financial rewards to shift habits.- Designing sustainability to be profitable for retailers, suppliers, and consumers.- Tackling legacy systems and risk-averse corporate cultures.- How CarbonTrac’s model could be applied to publishing, fashion, and tech.- Expanding into nutrition: AI-driven insights to address deficiencies and improve health.- The urgency of 2030 climate targets, and what needs to change now.More about Yasmine Abdu:Yasmine is the CEO and founder of CarbonTrac, an AI platform gamifying sustainable grocery shopping to make it easy and rewarding. Her work has attracted recognition from the UN, Samsung, Sage, and Huawei. Yasmine is driven by the belief that millions of small actions, done together, can reshape entire supply chains. Find out more at carbontrac.io

Wes Cummins is the visionary CEO of Applied Data, driving technology, hiring and AI data centre solutions forward for communities in an ethical and sustainable way. In our conversation, Wes shares his leadership insights for CEOs to evolve in the AI age – fast.

Picture this: It’s Christmas Day, 2024. I arrive in Bali, and I declare on social media that I’m going to go dark and write. The world's events and the accelerating collision of crises made me realize we are at a leadership tipping point. So, I wrote like my life depended on it. The preface—what you are about to hear—is where AfterShock to 2030 began.

To launch this series, we’re starting with the foreword to my book AfterShock to 2030: A CEO’s Guide to Reinvention in the Age of AI, Climate, and Societal Collapse. The foreword was written by Darrell West of Brookings, someone who’s been tracking the intersection of policy, leadership and technology for decades.I asked Joe Nickolls, a seasoned CEO in interactive entertainment industry, to read it aloud. As you’ll hear, his voice brings depth to Darrell’s framing and power to the urgent leadership themes my book and this podcast will explore.