Animal Behavior Conversations: The Podcast of The ABMA

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the people side of the animal care field. This episode, is a live panel recording from the 2026 ABMA-IAATE Joint Annual Conference in Cincinnati, Ohio, United States with live submitted questions from conference attendees. The panelists discuss “The Behaviors of Partnering for Success” and give advice for both formal leadership and frontline staff. Among other topics asked by the live audience, the panelists discuss what it means to be a good teammate, setting up systems for success, how to “disagree well”, and how leadership and staff can partner together for success. The panelist are Chris Jenkins (Virginia Zoo in Norfolk), Cinnamon Eubanks (Saint Louis Zoo - Forest Park Campus), Kit Lacy (Cascades Raptor Center) and Erin Katzner (World Parrot Trust). For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠⁠⁠abc@theabma.org⁠⁠⁠ 6:20 What does “Partnering for Success” look like in the animal care field? 10:55 What is the difference between avian and mammalian trainers? 16:25 From a leadership perspective, what does it look like to partner for success with your staff? 25:05 Advice for staff to have a discussion about partnering with their leadership on a project or initiative33:30 Advice for when there is resistance to change because what happens now “works” 43:00 Advice for disagreeing well 51:35 Setting up a departmental system for success 1:00:10 Advice for leaders to define roles and staff to work within those roles 1:09:40 Advice when collaboration with a peer isn’t reciprocated 1:16:10 The behaviors of a good teammate 1:21:55 What changes or advancements are the panelists most excited for and how can leadership and staff work together to achieve that goal

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the people side of the animal care field. This episode, is a live panel recording from the 2025 ABMA Virtual Conference with live submitted questions from conference attendees. The panelists include leaders at all levels of animal care from keepers to curators to executive directors which give a holistic view and advice on what leadership can look like at any level in the animal care field. The panelist are Chris Jenkins, Clint Lusardi, Darren Minier, Julie Grove, Missy Lamar, Sandy Jabas, Shea Eaves, Stephanie Joe, Torianna Green, and Trelle Dandridge. Instead of the traditional "Training Tales", to end the episode the panelist provide their "Leadership Resource List" which can be found at the end of this episode's description. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠⁠abc@theabma.org⁠⁠ 4:40 Introductions to the panelists and what does leadership mean to you? 22:45 Approaching management to encourage someone to take on a responsibility so that other coworkers feel motivated, seen, and heard 33:30 As a leader, when growing and supporting a newer leader that struggles with communication and tone, how do you best allow them to practice those skills without damaging relationships 52:20 What are the challenges of leading your peers and how do you overcome those challenges? 59:15 What advice do you have for a leader to hold their team accountable so that they are raising the team up to a higher standard instead of brining the higher achievers down to a lower standard? 1:04:20 What does it look like when a leader creates “a safe environment”? 1:09:25 What advice do you have for those who are leading amongst their peers? 1:26:20 How do you work around the thought of “You’re not my boss” when you are trying to be a leader at any level 1:33:10 For those who do not have the authority or responsibility of changing disciplinary action plans for a larger organization, what are some small changes we can make in our teams in order to model “Just Culture” 1:40:00 “Leadership Resource List” “Leading Without Authority” by Keith Ferrazi “It’s Your Ship” by Captain Michael Abrashoff “Crucial Conversations” “Just Culture” “Radical Candor” by Kim Scott

This episode Ryan Cartlidge, Animal Training Academy, discusses how to get “unstuck” in training. Ryan starts the episode by operationalizing what getting “stuck” in training may look like and the process of thinking “How do I get unstuck?” Ryan breaks down this process into three steps 1. Building a tool kit of knowledge 2. Having the Courage to Act and 3. Having the Systems for Learning in place. Throughout the entire episode Ryan details multiple tactics and learnings that can assist in getting unstuck such as understanding reinforcement systems, videoing your training sessions, utilizing flowcharts, and so much more! Stay tuned in for Ryan’s very unique "Training Tale" in which he was the learner. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Ryan and to learn more about Animal Training Academy connect with the organization in any way below: Email >>> Website >>> www.atamember.comInstagram >>> https://www.instagram.com/animal_training_academy/?hl=enFacebook >>> https://www.facebook.com/animaltrainingacademy/If interested follow the link to a free month of ATA. Sign up for 30 free days of ATA membership and then after that time period, you can roll into a full membership. >>> https://atamember.com/thanks-for-subscribing/6:20 Introduction to Ryan Cartlidge 12:35 Information about Animal Training Academy 16:00 What does it mean when we feel “stuck” in training 25:10 Starting the process of thinking “How do I get unstuck”?32:50 Building a tool kit of knowledge and skills1:00:40 Having the courage to act1:15:10 Having the systems for learning in place 1:27:45 “Training Tale”

This episode Justin Garner, Busch Gardens Tampa Bay, provides some great learning on behavior chains and the process of chaining. Justin starts by breaking down the process of chaining while giving practical application examples. The discussion then dives into how a behavior chain works and dissects what it means for each behavior in the chain to serve as both a discriminative stimulus and a conditioned reinforcer. Justin then explains the difference between backward and forward chaining and why it is recommended to utilize backward chaining. The discussion ends with advice on preventing behavior chain breakdown and an explanation on the difference between shaping and chaining. Stay tuned in for Justin’s "Training Tale" about a team and a mob of macropods reaching new heights in training. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠For more information on the ABMA’s virtual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/virtual-conferenceTo submit an abstract for the ABMA 2026 annual conference visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/abma-annual-conferenceTo complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠1:30 Upcoming ABMA offerings 5:35 Definition and practical application of chaining and behavior chains15:30 Backward chaining 22:35 Forward chaining 26:15 Recommendation to utilize backward chaining31:15 Advice on preventing behavior chain breakdowns 33:50 The difference between chaining and shaping 38:50 “Training Tales”

This episode begins a two episode arc discussing how changing conditions can change motivation with Wouter Stellaard, Behavior 360 and the Kuzo Group. In this episode Wouter discusses the many, and not exclusive, ways in which we can change conditions to change motivation that do not involve diet management. The episode begins by discussing motivation as a construct and a label and then breaking down motivating operations and setting events. Wouter educates on the many ways in which we can alter antecedents and the environment in order to effect motivation. Additionally, Wouter encourages listeners to evaluate ourselves and our shaping plans. Stay tuned in for Wouter’s “Training Tale” about getting into the weeds of training Calm Attentive Behaviors (CAB) with wolves at Bearizona. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Wouter email wstellaard@behavior360.com or wouters@thekuzogroup.com For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: ⁠⁠https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses⁠⁠To complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: ⁠⁠https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025⁠⁠Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:50 Introduction to Wouter Stellaard 9:40 A jumping off point for a discussion 11:35 Change from weight management mindset to behavior management mindset15:10 Definition of Motivation18:50 Motivation as a label 22:55 Motivation and the Study of One in One Moment26:20 Definition of Motivating Operations and Setting Events 29:20 Relationship and Trust 30:40 Variety of reinforcers 31:10 Variety of asked behaviors, rate of reinforcement 33:20 Shifting the mindset to what we can do and away from the animal isn’t motivated37:10 Antecedents and changing the environment 43:50 Evaluating ourselves 49:55 Differential Outcome Effect52:00 Competing Reinforcers 56:30 Reevaluating our shaping plan59:40 Low Motivation vs Reinforced Behavior 1:03:50 Social Structure and Hierarchy 1:13:50 “Training Tales”

This episode Dr. Susan Friedman, Behavior Works, provides some great learning and insights into a multitude of current topics surrounding the science of behavior change. Dr. Friedman starts with discussing the Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures; what it is, how we can view it to provide optimal welfare to animals, and also the importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment to behavior change. She also breaks down what it means and looks like in practice when we strive for most positive, least intrusive, effective intervention. Dr. Friedman then gives a summary on the free operant approach to enrichment. She finishes the discussion by diving into the concept of control by honoring the no and shaping the yes. Stay tuned in for Dr. Friedman’s very unique "Training Tale" about plant learning. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Dr. Friedman email ⁠ sgf@behaviorworks.org For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-coursesTo complete the podcast feedback survey visit this link: https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 5:10 Introduction to Dr. Susan Friedman and Behavior Works19:25 Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures27:00 Most Positive, Least Intrusive, Effective Intervention 36:20 The importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment on behavior 48:05 Free Operant approach to enrichment 1:07:00 Honor the No, Shape the Yes

This episode was a live panel recording at the 2025 ABMA annual conference in Galveston Texas hosted by Moody Gardens. The expert panel consisted of Tim Sullivan - Brookfield Zoo, Elly Neumann - Jerusalem Zoo, Nicki Boyd- San Diego Zoo, Anaka Nazareth - National Aquarium, and Chris Jenkins - Natural Encounters Inc. The panel’s theme was “The Importance of Behavior in Modern Animal Care” with questions submitted in real time from the conference attendees. The panel discussed a wide range of topics ranging from the growth of the role behavior plays in welfare to the evolution and next steps in enrichment, to advice on getting buy-in for change. In the absence of a “Training Tale” for this episode, each of the panelists utilize their years of experience to provide their “Animal Behavior Advice”. For questions or suggestions about the podcast or to get in contact with the panelists email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!

This episode Mel Paynter and Alyse Stitt, Georgia Aquarium, discuss motivation in the context of animal behavior and training. In part 1 of this two episode discussion Mel and Alyse discuss what motivation is, what it looks like in practice, and give some o-fish-ally great examples from the many aquatic species that they work with in the Ocean Voyager habitat at the Georgia Aquarium. They both dive deeper into breaking down and discussing some of the numerous stimuli and events that can affect motivation. The discussion finishes with their advice on how to productively and effectively use motivation as a tool in our training toolbox and not as a label. Stay tuned in for Mel and Alyse’s “Training Tales” that focus on how the fish they have worked with have taught them and changed their perspective. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Mel and Alyse email mpaynter@georgiaaquarium.org or AStitt@georgiaaquarium.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:25 Introduction to Mel Paynter and Alyse Stitt8:15 Overview of Ocean Voyager habitat at Georgia Aquarium 10:15 Definition of Motivation 13:45 Definition of Motivating Operations Affects on Motivation: 17:10 Food and Enrichment 24:00 Breeding/Courtship 34:00 Social Structure/Situations 39:50 Environment43:35 Weather/Seasonality45:00 Learning History 47:50 Animal’s physical ability to do something48:50 Previous access to resources50:35 Differences in motivation among individuals 59:25 Advice for using motivation productively and effectively, not as a label1:05:35 “Training Tales”

This episode Tricia Dees, the second vice president of the ABMA, continues on with the discussion from Episode 59 and goes deeper into primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers. Tricia gives some common examples of primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers but also talks about how individual preference plays a role in determining what is actually a reinforcer for each individual. The discussion then turns to why and how we can condition a reinforcer and the importance of watching the animal’s behavior to ensure that a conditioned reinforcer maintains its effectiveness. Stay tuned in for Tricia’s “Training Tale” about how she used learning from a presentation at an ABMA conference about zebra training with an otter. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠abc@theabma.org⁠ and to contact Tricia email sponsorships@theabma.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 4:05 Introduction to Tricia Dees 6:10 Definition of a Primary/Unconditioned Reinforcer 8:50 Definition of a Secondary/Conditioned Reinforcer 11:50 Are primary and secondary reinforcers the same for every individual in a species? 19:25 Why would we condition a reinforcer? 22:00 Example of how to condition a reinforcer and how to tell if it is an effective reinforcer30:45 How to tell if a conditioned reinforcer has lost its effectiveness as a reinforcer 36:30 “Training Tales”

This episode Jose Bello, Disney’s Animals, Science and Environment, discusses superstitious behavior. Jose starts with breaking down what it means for a behavior to be superstitious and examples of what that looks like in a practical application. Next, Jose educates about the “potential danger” in labeling behaviors as superstitious and how taking the blame away from the animal and placing it on us as the trainers, can give us a better understanding of what is accidentally reinforcing or punishing a superstitious behavior. The episode ends with a discussion and a reminder that all behavior has function and how that mindset can help trainers and teams have a cohesive understanding of superstitious behaviors. Stay tuned in for Jose’s o-fish-ally great "Training Tale" about a guest’s reaction to water kenneling fish. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Jose email Jose.Bello@disney.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 7:00 Introduction to Jose Bello 10:05 Definition and practical application of superstitious behavior 14:55 What does it look like if something is accidentally reinforced? 16:15 How to identify a superstitious behavior? 19:10 What is the potential “danger” in labeling a behavior as superstitious? 21:25 If there is a “potential danger”, should we still call behaviors superstitious? 23:50 How can having extra communication about superstitious behaviors arising from accidental reinforcement help with any labels that may come with the term? 25:50 Advice for recognizing that a behavior has been accidentally reinforced and isn’t just “something the animal always does” 28:05 Recognizing what is actually the reinforcer(s) or punisher(s) for a superstitious behavior? 29:30 All behavior has function 33:45 “Training Tales”

This episode Sam Meinke, Palm Beach Zoo, and podcast host, Shane Gorbett, discusses what it means to be a modern zookeeper. The definition of what a zookeeper is and does has drastically changed and is constantly evolving as we continue to progress animal care forward. Some other modern zookeepers were kind enough to share what being a modern zookeeper means to them so Sam and Shane dissect those answers as we redefine what it means to be a zookeeper. The discussion wraps up with the importance of redefining what a modern zookeeper is and does both for the knowledge of the public but also for those currently in the field or hoping to start their careers. Stay tuned in for Sam's "Training Tales" which involves a ground hornbill and a "long cheetah turd". For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Sam you can message him on Facebook or Instagram. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 3:20 Introduction to Sam Meinke 4:40 Definition of a Zookeeper and redefining into a Modern Zookeeper 13:40 Using the past as a baseline to grow from and do better 20:20 A Modern Zookeeper…. Adapts to new information 22:50 Progressive, Use the artful application of scientific principles 23:45 Knows the individual animals 25:20 Creative, thinks outside the box for enriching the lives of animals 28:20 Responsible for providing each individual animal the best life possible 30:22 Creates a bond with the animals, knows each of their personalities 32:00 Eager to share their special connection with everyone 32:50 Strives to create positive connections in all interactions, changing the mindset from making to asking 36:46 Does research, looks to natural history of animals 38:15 Selfless, puts the animals’ needs above their own, open to feedback 39:20 Prioritizes behavioral management as a necessity 41:30 Focuses on animal wellbeing 43:10 Importance of redefining the modern zookeeper 45:40 Advice on changing the mindset of a team into striving to be modern zookeeprs 49:00 “Training Tales”

This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the human side of the animal care field. In this episode Scott Trauger, Natural Encounters, Inc., dives deeper into a discussion centered around his presentation at the 2024 ABMA Annual Conference titled "Expanding Our Feedback Loop: Evolving the Way that We Give Feedback to Our Peers". Scott discusses the different types of feedback and considerations to think about in order to effectively give specific and honest, but also kind, feedback. Scott also discusses the thought of also giving choice and... control to people while providing feedback. Stay tuned in for a "Training Tale" about how Scott used his tree climbing skills and relationship to rescue a pied crow. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Scott contact him on the ABMA Community or email michael.scott.trauger@gmail.com If you are an ABMA member you can watch Scott's presentation on animalprofessional.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior! 2:10 Introduction to Scott Trauger 6:05 “Expanding Our Feedback Loop: Evolving the Ways we Give Feedback to Our Peers” 7:55 Using the word “Feedback” vs “Criticism” 12:05 Different Types of Feedback 18:40 Importance of Individual Relationships 23:30 Being honest and specific but also kind 27:15 Reinforcing the behaviors/responses you want to see happen again 29:30 Recapping or following up after feedback 31:15 Starting with heart and the human, not evidence 35:10 Giving choice and… control to people 43:00 “Training Tales”