BE THAT LAWYER

Tired of paying for “more clicks” and getting zero real cases? In this episode, you’ll hear how strategic market research, real social proof, and case-study-driven content can turn a law firm website into a revenue engine instead of a digital brochure. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Cooper Saunders discuss: The real goal of digital marketing for law firms (revenue, not clicks) Market research and choosing markets you can dominate Building targeted content around real client cases and questions Personalization, video, and human connection on law firm websites Social proof, reviews, and the “Dream 100” referral strategy Key Takeaways: Marketing success for law firms starts with showing up where people are already searching for the exact services you provide, instead of broadcasting to everyone and hoping for the best. Smart lawyers look for markets they can dominate, choosing niches and geographies with solid demand but manageable competition rather than jumping into oversaturated metro battles by default. Case-based content that walks through “this client, this problem, this solution, this outcome” is far more powerful than generic articles that could apply to anyone and no one at the same time. Prospects convert at a higher rate when they can see and hear the attorney: simple, honest video on an About page often beats polished but faceless branding. Social proof, including reviews, testimonials, and concrete case studies, is no longer optional; it’s the proof skeptical clients need before deciding you’re the right firm to trust. "I think the market research goes into identifying a pond you can dominate, rather than being a minnow in an ocean or fighting an 800-pound gorilla." — Cooper Saunders Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Cooper Saunders: Cooper Saunders is the owner and founder of WiseGuys Digital Marketing, a Kansas City, Missouri-based agency specializing in SEO and Google Ads. Recognized as a business growth expert, he has authored three national bestselling books—including Quit Competing Start Dominating and Marketing Secrets of the Ultra Wealthy—and hosts The Growth Secrets Podcast. Under his leadership, WiseGuys Digital Marketing operates without year-long contracts and was named a Kansas City Chamber of Commerce Small Business Superstar for three consecutive years from 2021 through 2023. Connect with Cooper Saunders: Website: https://wiseguysdm.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coopersaunders/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

Stuck on the “wrong mountain” in your legal career but unsure what to do next? In this episode, career coach and former lawyer Sherry Mason breaks down how ambitious attorneys can separate prestige from true fulfillment, avoid burnout, and plan a smart, strategic exit instead of a panic-fueled leap. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sherry Mason discuss: Ambition vs. prestige in legal careers Skills, situation, and identity as sources of dissatisfaction Burnout, autonomy, and control for lawyers How spending 20% of your time on aligned work drastically reduces burnout A five-step framework for planning a career transition Key Takeaways: Many high-achieving lawyers climb career “mountains” chosen for them by others, only to realize later that prestige alone doesn’t guarantee a fulfilling life. Career dissatisfaction typically stems from one of three areas (skills, situation, or identity) and it’s critical to understand which one is actually driving your unhappiness before you make a big move. Burnout often reflects a loss of autonomy and misalignment between daily work and personal values, not just long hours or compensation. Research suggests that if just 20% of your time is spent on the work that most lights you up, your risk of burnout can drop dramatically, even if the other 80% is less enjoyable. A thoughtful, stepwise approach of clarifying your criteria, forming hypotheses, testing them through conversations, reaching the right decision-makers, and weighing trade-offs can turn a vague urge to quit into a strategic, lower-risk transition. "You can do anything, but you can't do everything, and a lot of times we work on climbing to the top of a mountain, and sometimes it is a mountain that someone else has told us would be the right mountain for us to climb. " — Sherry Mason Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Sherry Mason: Sherry Mason is the founder and principal coach at Daymark Career Coaching, where she has been advising and guiding professionals through career transitions since 2005. Grounded in an 18-year background in higher education, her experience includes serving as the former Dean of Students at the University of Maine School of Law, as well as a decade working as a Career Coach and Pre-Law Advisor at Bowdoin College and Tufts University. She holds a B.A. in Geology and Geophysics from Yale University and a J.D., summa cum laude, from the University of Maine School of Law, where she graduated first in her class. Sherry brings a deeply multi-disciplinary approach to her practice, holding credentials as an Accredited Financial Counselor alongside specialized training in navigating transitions, public speaking, racial equity, and intergroup dialogue facilitation. Connect with Sherry Mason: Website: https://daymarkcareers.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherryfm/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Megan Hargroder discuss: Building trust over chasing tactics Positioning with clarity and specificity Showing authenticity to attract the right clients Using story and proof to strengthen credibility Key Takeaways: Modern marketing is shifting away from quick SEO tricks toward real human engagement. When people genuinely connect with your content and stay on your site, it signals trust. That trust is what drives visibility and long-term growth. Trying to speak to everyone weakens your authority. Focusing on a clear niche helps people understand what you do and see you as the go-to expert. Repeating one core message consistently builds recognition and trust. Relatable language, personality, and even humor make you memorable. The goal is not to impress peers but to connect with people. When you show who you really are, you naturally draw in the right clients and filter out the wrong ones. Your bio and reviews are powerful trust builders when done right. Sharing why you do what you do and highlighting specific results helps people see themselves in your story. Detailed proof builds confidence far more than generic praise. "You want to be turning the right people on, and you want to be turning the wrong people off at all times." — Megan Hargroder Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Megan Hargroder: Megan Hargroder is a legal marketing strategist and entrepreneur known for helping law firms grow through authentic, relationship-driven marketing. As the founder of Legends Legal Marketing, she specializes in building systems that connect attorneys with referral partners and drive consistent business development. With a background in both marketing and operations, Megan brings a practical, results-focused approach to scaling professional services. She is passionate about mentorship, community building, and helping lawyers create sustainable growth by aligning strategy, systems, and personal strengths. Connect with Megan Hargroder: Website: https://heyitsmegan.com/ , https://legendslegalmarketing.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heyitsmegan/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911 Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.