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Not Your Keys, Not Your AI | ERIK CASON & JESSE POSNER
Jun 23, 2026
1h 21m 04s
BIP 110 & The Future of Soft Forks | SUPER TESTNET
Jun 16, 2026
1h 28m 44s
Bitcoin's threshold for trust-minimization—without a soft fork | SAM BLACKSHEAR
Jun 4, 2026
58m 06s
Bitcoin's 3 Biggest Challenges | NEHA NARULA
May 27, 2026
1h 22m 57s
Post-Quantum Cryptography For Bitcoin | DAN BONEH
May 20, 2026
1h 44m 03s
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| Date | Episode | Topics | Guests | Brands | Places | Keywords | Sponsor | Length | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6/23/26 | ![]() Not Your Keys, Not Your AI | ERIK CASON & JESSE POSNER | As language models evolve into extensions of memory, judgment, and decision-making—questions of ownership, privacy, and autonomy become increasingly difficult to ignore. In this interview, Vora founders Erik Cason and Jesse Posner share why the future of AI will look very different depending on our ability to do one thing: maintain self-custody of our personal data—with private keys, just like Bitcoin. A conversation about who controls the systems shaping human cognition, and how we can protect ourselves with the same ethos we protect our Bitcoin—this interview covers: Why AI is the most intimate technology ever created + the specific risks of centralized AI systems controlling sensitive personal information How Bitcoin's self-custody model provides a framework for thinking about data ownership in the AI age (Not Your Keys, Not Your Mind) Why data sovereignty may become one of the defining technological and political questions of the coming decades How you can protect yourself and your personal information from centralized AI risks—including data leaks, political manipulation and more. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by my sponsors: LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) Hashi on Sui Network — a primitive for executing Bitcoin DeFi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity BitBox — an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount | 1h 21m 04s | ||||||
| 6/16/26 | ![]() BIP 110 & The Future of Soft Forks | SUPER TESTNET | One of Bitcoin's most prolific experimental developers, Super Testnet is known for building software at the frontier of Bitcoin research — including notable contributions to BitVM, Drivechains, Lightning, and numerous prototypes that have pushed the boundaries of Bitcoin's design space. More recently, he's become a prominent participant in discussions surrounding BIP 110, a proposed soft fork intended to restrict transaction patterns associated with Ordinal inscriptions. While Super broadly agrees with the proposal's underlying goals, he argues its current restrictions are overly broad and could impact "legitimate" monetary uses of Bitcoin. These concerns led him to share a User-Rejected Soft Fork proposal last week, creating a rare case study in how Bitcoin's consensus rules evolve in practice. In more detail, Super Testnet & I discuss: BIP 110, and why developers disagree over transaction filtering Soft fork activation through a historical lens Miner-Activated and User-Activated Soft Forks + the hybrid strategy proposed by BIP 110 advocates Super's User-Rejected Soft Fork proposal and its game theoretical implications for BIP 110 activation Novel signaling mechanisms for BIP 110 + their implications for the future of hashrate markets This episode of Bitcoin Rails is brought to you by my sponsors: LayerTwo Labs — developing research, software, and technologies for scaling Bitcoin via the integration of Drivechains (BIP 300/301) Hashi on Sui Network — a primitive for executing Bitcoin Defi transactions, without having to trust a federated bridge or other centralized entity BitBox — an open-source Bitcoin-only hardware wallet, with smooth UX and no compromises on security. Check out Bitbox [dot] swiss and use code BITCOINRAILS to get a discount | 1h 28m 44s | ||||||
| 6/4/26 | ![]() Bitcoin's threshold for trust-minimization—without a soft fork | SAM BLACKSHEAR✨ | Bitcointrust-minimization+4 | Sam Blackshear | HashiMeta+2 | — | Bitcointrust-minimization+6 | LayerTwo Labs | 58m 06s | |
| 5/27/26 | ![]() Bitcoin's 3 Biggest Challenges | NEHA NARULA✨ | Bitcoin challengesscaling Bitcoin+5 | Neha Narula | MIT Digital Currency Initiative | — | Bitcoinscaling+5 | LayerTwo Labs | 1h 22m 57s | |
| 5/20/26 | ![]() Post-Quantum Cryptography For Bitcoin | DAN BONEH✨ | quantum computingBitcoin+4 | Dan Boneh | GoogleSecuring Elliptic Curve Cryptocurrencies against Quantum Vulnerabilities | — | quantum vulnerabilitiesShor's algorithm+3 | LayerTwo Labs | 1h 44m 03s | |
| 5/12/26 | ![]() Breaking Down Digital Payments | DAVID MARCUS✨ | digital paymentsBitcoin+4 | David Marcus | LightsparkPayPal+3 | — | digital moneypayments industry+4 | — | 59m 23s | |
| 5/5/26 | ![]() Post-Quantum Bitcoin Signatures (+ their tradeoffs) | ETHAN HEILMAN & JONAS NICK✨ | quantum resistanceBitcoin signatures+5 | Ethan HeilmanJonas Nick | BlockstreamBIP 360+3 | — | quantum resistanceBitcoin+7 | — | 1h 18m 05s | |
| 4/24/26 | ![]() DRIVECHAINS AUTHOR TO HARDFORK BITCOIN I with PAUL SZTORC✨ | Bitcoin governancehard fork+5 | Paul Sztorc | BitcoinDrivechains+2 | — | hard forkBitcoin+8 | — | 1h 27m 53s | |
| 4/14/26 | ![]() Bitcoin Mining's Heatpunk Revolution | TYLER STEVENS✨ | Bitcoin miningheat reuse+4 | Tyler Stevens | — | — | Bitcoin miningheat reuse+6 | LayerTwo Labs | 1h 11m 50s | |
| 4/7/26 | ![]() The Untold History of Stablecoins | PHIL POTTER✨ | stablecoinsBitcoin trading+4 | Phil Potter | TetherBitfinex | NYCWashington Square Park | stablecoinsTether+5 | — | 2h 25m 51s | |
Want analysis for the episodes below?Free for Pro Submit a request, we'll have your selected episodes analyzed within an hour. Free, at no cost to you, for Pro users. | |||||||||
| 3/26/26 | ![]() What Happened to Bitcoin Treasury Companies? | DAVID BAILEY & BRANDON GREEN✨ | Bitcoin treasury companiesBitcoin Inc.+4 | David BaileyBrandon Green | Bitcoin Inc.Bitcoin Magazine+4 | — | Bitcointreasury companies+8 | Best In Slot | 1h 49m 50s | |
| 3/17/26 | ![]() Building a Financial System on Bitcoin | WILLEM SCHROE✨ | Bitcoinfinancial system+4 | Willem Schroe | Botanix | — | Bitcoinfinancial system+6 | Best In Slot | 1h 03m 51s | |
| 3/10/26 | ![]() Internet Capital Markets on Bitcoin | BINARI✨ | Bitcoinasset tokenization+4 | Binari | BRC20Bitcoin+3 | — | BRC 2.0Bitcoin-native assets+5 | Best In Slot | 1h 31m 04s | |
| 2/26/26 | ![]() BitVM3 & The Garbled Circuits Revolution | with BitVM creators Robin Linus & Liam Eagen✨ | BitVMzero-knowledge proofs+4 | Robin LinusLiam Eagen | BitVMBinohash+4 | — | BitVMzero-knowledge proofs+6 | Best In Slot | 1h 16m 11s | |
| 2/19/26 | ![]() History of Metaprotocols on Bitcoin | with Adam Krellenstein✨ | metaprotocolsBitcoin history+5 | Adam Krellenstein | CounterPartyRarePepes+1 | — | Bitcoinmetaprotocols+8 | — | 1h 26m 34s | |
| 2/11/26 | ![]() The History of SegWit and Taproot | with Pieter Wuille✨ | Bitcoin developmentSegWit+4 | Pieter Wuille | Bitcoin Core | — | BitcoinSegWit+5 | Best In Slot | 1h 40m 31s | |
| 1/28/26 | ![]() The Cultural Fork of Bitcoin | with TJ Miller✨ | Bitcoincultural adoption+4 | TJ Miller | ChainlinkStand Comedy Club | — | Bitcoincomedy+6 | Best In Slot | 1h 19m 24s | |
| 1/21/26 | ![]() The History of Bitcoin Sidechains | with Rootstock creator Sergio Lerner | The ultimate Bitcoin "scaling OG,” Sergio Lerner, has been working on Bitcoin bridges since 2012. Sergio was the first person on the Bitcoin Talk forum to propose the idea that “one chain could validate the consensus of another chain,” and architected the first functioning Bitcoin sidechain, Rootstock, shortly after the canonical Blockstream sidechains paper was published in 2014. Lesser known is Lerner’s recent contributions to the development of BitVM—through his team’s Alliance-independent implementation, BitVMX. In addition to their unique BitVM implementation (optimizing for different tradeoffs compared to Robin Linus BitVM Alliance), the BitVMX team is quietly operating as the “fixer” service provider to many of the most interesting BitVM rollups set to launch in 2026. In this episode, Lerner and I dive deep into the history of Bitcoin sidechains, why various projects of the past decade have succeeded or failed (and the legacies they left behind), and the trust-minimized future he sees through the development of BitVM/BitVMX. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is powered by: — Best In Slot — the leading API for Ordinals and BRC-20 data aggregation and indexing. — Spark — a statechains implementation advancing Bitcoin-powered payments. — Citrea — a leading Bitcoin rollup technology and BitVM alliance contributor. 📌 TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro 01:39 Early Bitcoin and Cryptography Background 03:55 Bitcoin’s Limits Back in 2012 05:26 The First Turing-Complete Cryptocurrency 06:27 Contributions to Bitcoin and Ethereum 16:52 Why Mining Centralization Is Bitcoin’s Biggest Risk 24:34 Rootstock vs. Original Sidechains Whitepaper 33:50 Federated Bridges and Their Trade-offs 40:49 First Rootstock Users 46:31 Merge Mining and Bitcoin Security 56:03 Fairgate, BitVM, and Garbled Circuits 01:06:37 Bridging Models and Business Constraints | 1h 15m 38s | ||||||
| 1/14/26 | ![]() Open Source Mining Revolution | with Bitaxe creator Skot | “The current mining landscape is dominated by proprietary, closed-source players who aren’t really serving the needs of the market. That creates an opportunity for open source mining to matter again.” Bitaxe creator Skot dives into the state of modern Bitcoin mining, where a small handful of industry players control nearly every facet of mining hardware and ASIC production—in a tightly sealed, closed-source environment. While Bitcoin software developers often champion a rigorously open-source ethos in building, Skot shares why the mining industry “isn’t like that” and how closed-source mining production creates unique centralization vectors—from limiting participation by “pleb” solo miners to exacerbating geopolitical risks on an industrial scale. Thankfully, we’re starting to see a shift in demand and supply of open-source mining tools—including the recent development of “Bitaxes,” which have notably revived the solo miner community over the last year. In this episode, Skot shares the full history of the open-source mining movement, including: - How ASIC manufacturers like Bitmain and foundries like TSMC came to dominate the industry, and why competition at the silicon layer is so challenging - The geopolitics of chip manufacturing and the near-monopoly of China & Taiwan in developing ASIC technology - Why mining systems producers keep their technology so close to the vest, and who these closed-source systems most hurt in the process - How advocates at the independent and corporate levels (think: Skot and Jack Dorsey) are challenging the status quo and leading the open-source mining revolution Shout-outs in this episode to the Texas Energy and Mining Summit Bitcoin Park, and early Bitaxe supporters ZK shark and Ordinal Maxi Biz. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is powered by: - Best In Slot — the leading API for Ordinals and BRC-20 data aggregation and indexing. - Spark — a statechains implementation advancing Bitcoin-powered payments. - Citrea — a leading Bitcoin rollup technology and BitVM alliance contributor. TIMESTAMPS 📌 00:00 Intro 01:27 Diving Into Bitaxe and Ordinals 04:02 The Open Source Nature of Bitaxe 05:43 Challenges in Chip Manufacturing 07:27 The Role of TSMC and Bitmain in Mining 15:26 The Evolution and Impact of Bitaxe 22:31 The First Bitaxe Manufacturer 31:28 Why Are People Buying Bitaxes? 35:47 A Different Way of Thinking About Bitcoin Mining 37:54 Decentralization and Home Mining 41:12 Ongoing Challenges in Chip Manufacturing 44:07 How Did Jack Dorsey Get Chips From TSMC? 49:03 How Bitcoin Mining Chips Interact With Software 01:04:51 The Role of Open Source in Bitcoin’s Future | 1h 08m 46s | ||||||
| 1/8/26 | ![]() Bitcoin Mining in the Age of AI | with MARA CEO Fred Thiel | In response to the AI-driven shock in global demand for computing power, large players in the Bitcoin mining industry have been forced to make significant strategic shifts to remain competitive. MARA — the largest Bitcoin miner in the world by hashrate — is emerging as one of the more well-positioned beneficiaries of these changing tides, having transitioned from an “asset-light” strategy (via hosted mining at third-party facilities) to an “asset-heavy” approach (owning its own land, power, and infrastructure) just ahead of the AI compute wave in 2024/25. I sat down with MARA CEO Fred Thiel to discuss how these shifting industry dynamics are playing out in practice — as well as his perspective on how key mining-related security and infrastructure issues may evolve in the coming months and years. In this episode, we cover: — How MARA scaled from near-zero hash rate in 2020 to the largest Bitcoin miner globally by the end of 2023 — Key differences between operating Bitcoin mining facilities versus AI data centers, and where the two models meaningfully intersect — Why ownership of power generation —rather than reliance on PPAs— may represent a durable competitive edge for miners and AI data center operators over time — Why Bitcoin may be entering its “IPO phase,” and why recent price corrections could reflect increasing market maturity rather than structural weakness We also explore more technical and often under-discussed topics —such as heat reuse, open-source mining technologies, and the implications of US policy goals around Bitcoin mining. This episode offers a grounded, operator-level view of where Bitcoin mining is headed, informed by one of the most consequential leaders in the public mining sector. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This episode of Bitcoin Rails is powered by: — Best In Slot — the leading API for Ordinals and BRC-20 data aggregation and indexing. — Spark — a statechains implementation advancing Bitcoin-powered payments. — Citrea — a leading Bitcoin rollup technology and BitVM alliance contributor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- TIMESTAMPS 📌 00:00 Intro 01:09 From Marathon Patent Group to MARA 06:35 Why Owning Infrastructure is Key 07:46 First Public Companies Mining Bitcoin 09:54 Data Centers For AI vs Bitcoin Mining Facilities 14:07 How AI Data Centers Will Look Going Forward 15:37 How MARA is Diversifying From Bitcoin Mining 19:03 Private Cloud and Data Security 22:20 The Exaion Partnership 26:03 Future of Bitcoin and AI 40:22 Innovative Approaches to AI and Bitcoin Mining 42:06 Challenges and Opportunities in Power Generation 45:38 Strategic International Partnerships 50:43 The Future of Real World Assets 53:53 Bitcoin Mining in China 57:24 Why MARA Runs Their Own Software 01:00:19 Where is Bitcoin Mining Headed 01:04:17 Benefits of Running a Mining Pool 01:07:17 Heat Reuse in Mining | 1h 18m 39s | ||||||
| 12/16/25 | ![]() Ark Beyond Payments | ALEX BERGERON | If you’ve been following the “Bitcoin Season II” meta for some time, you’re likely already following Bitcoin tech critic Alex Bergeron—formerly comms at Blockstream and Layer-2 reporter for Bitcoin Magazine. A notorious contrarian, he’s known for being difficult to impress—and for having a soft spot for the Ark Protocol, which he sees as uniquely suited for trustless Bitcoin scaling and DeFi usecases (e.g. lending) more broadly. Alex made his relationship with the Ark protocol official earlier this year, joining the Arkade implementation team led by Ark Labs and Tiero. Taking a notably different approach to both engineering and product design than competitor Second (see last week’s episode with Steven Roose for comparison), Alex shares why the payments use case is “only the beginning” for the Ark protocol, and why Ark Labs intends to lead the charge on the protocol’s potential for Bitcoin-native DeFi. In this episode, Alex and I unpack: - How Alex’s experiences at Blockstream and Bitcoin Magazine shaped his views on governance, communication, and prepared him for the new wave of political disruption we're seeing in Bitcoin today. - Why the Payments use-case is only ONE application Ark Lab's Arkade implementation intends to support. - The trade-offs of introducing programmability into Ark: why expressiveness introduces operator dependencies, and how Arkade approaches minimizing (but not eliminating) those trust assumptions. - What Bitcoin-native capital markets could look like: synthetic exposure, structured products, and treasury-style use cases, designed to remain self-custodial once the technology matures. For anyone trying to understand the differences between competing Ark protocol implementations—this episode is a must-watch. Highly recommend a side-by-side comparison with last week's episode with Steven Roose as well. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is powered by: - Best In Slot — the leading API for Ordinals and BRC-20 data aggregation and indexing. - Spark — a statechains implementation advancing Bitcoin-powered payments. - Citrea — a leading Bitcoin rollup technology and BitVM alliance contributor. 📌 Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:45 Alex’s Early Bitcoin Journey 02:59 Scaling Bitcoin and Community Involvement 08:11 Blockstream and the Block Size Wars 14:25 Transition to Bitcoin Magazine 21:10 Joining Arkade and Future Prospects 41:09 Key Difference Between Arkade and Second 43:59 Off-Chain Transactions and Operator Risks 46:11 Bitcoin Native Assets and Programmability 51:29 Synthetic Assets and Financial Products 56:01 Challenges and Opportunities in Bitcoin Programmability 01:04:38 Past and Future of Bitcoin Programmability | 1h 24m 07s | ||||||
| 12/9/25 | ![]() Optimizing Bitcoin for Medium of Exchange | “Payments are the north star. Bitcoin is money, so payments need to work.” The Ark protocol is widely considered one of the most promising Layer-2 architectures in Bitcoin today—one of maybe two or three that are 'Maxi-approved' due to its unique (and rare) permissionless exit feature. Former Blockchain engineer Steven Roose (& CEO of Ark implementation 2ndbtc has been working on Ark since nearly day one, after connecting with Ark's somewhat infamous creator, Burak, while working on Blockstream’s Liquid sidechain in 2022. What began as an early company pushing the new protocol forward eventually evolved into two distinct implementations— 2ndbtc and Ark Labs—with notable cultural and technical differences between the projects. In this episode of Bitcoin Rails, Steven and I got a chance to discuss the full history and evolution of this new leading protocol, including: - How Ark was largely inspired by inefficiencies in Lightning (and how Lightning and Ark may complement one another today) - How the Ark project, initially led by Burak, bifurcated into two distinct implementations (2ndbtc and Arkade), and the differences between them - How the protocol has evolved to avoid dependence on soft forks (and how CTV activation could fix the biggest UX challenge in Ark’s current design) - Steven’s personal insights working with Blockstream on Liquid and why Bitcoin sidechains have historically struggled to gain adoption This episode is fairly technical, covering quite a bit of inside baseball on the early origins of the Ark protocol. I'll be hosting Alex Berge on the show's season finale next week for a more in-depth look at Arkade - and to balance the playing field. Stay tuned for Ark-mania on Bitcoin Rails. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is powered by: - Best In Slot — the leading API for Ordinals and BRC-20 data aggregation and indexing. - Spark — a statechains implementation advancing Bitcoin-powered payments. - Citrea — the leading Bitcoin rollup technology and BitVM alliance contributor. 📌 Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:06 Background on Ark Founders and Liquid 02:29 Liquid and Its Challenges 06:19 Why Liquid Didn’t Take Off 11:28 The Birth of Ark and Its Innovations 13:57 Original Ideas Behind Ark 17:27 Ark Technical TLDR 31:29 UX and the Future of Ark 36:55 The Hacker House That Started Ark for Steven 42:17 An Unexpected Crisis 46:12 Second: A New Beginning For Ark 59:05 Programmability vs Payments in Ark | 1h 04m 17s | ||||||
| 12/2/25 | ![]() Why You Can’t Stop SPAM on Bitcoin | with Peter Todd | "You cannot prevent arbitrary data from being published in Bitcoin transactions. Even at the consensus level… It’s mathematically impossible.” Legendary Bitcoin contributor since 2009 and self-described "weirdo with a fine arts degree," Peter Todd joins me to unpack the endless wars over Bitcoin's "true purpose," his pioneering work putting "spam" on the blockchain, and why he believes attempts to filter transactions are just “silly.” In this episode, we get deep into the history of using Bitcoin for data storage - which goes back, at least, to the development of Namecoin in 2011. Relatedly, we cover the history and long-fought governance battles around OP_RETURN, relay policy and our community's evolving definitions of "arbitrary data." Suffice it to say, the Filter Wars of 2024/25 are not new… they are simply one battle in a decade+ war we unpack in detail in this context-rich episode of Bitcoin Rails. In more detail, this episode covers: - The development of Open Time Stamps + Bitcoin's use in validating election data and beyond. - OPRETURN battles of the early days… and how its use has evolved over the past decade. - Why Bitcoin Core "should not try to censor transactions" and the "performance art project" (Libre Relay) that shows why. - Bitcoin as a "replicated database" and why blockchains may legitimately be useful outside of sound money. - Why preventing arbitrary data on Bitcoin is "mathematically impossible" …and trying to stop it is only distracting us from "more important" efforts, like the Great Consensus Cleanup @darosior. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is powered by: - Best In Slot — the leading API for Ordinals and BRC-20 data aggregation and indexing. - Spark — a statechains implementation advancing Bitcoin-powered payments. - Citrea — the leading Bitcoin rollup technology and BitVM alliance contributor. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:19 Bitcoin Early Days 03:44 OpenTimestamps Project 12:22 Governance and Bitcoin Protocol Debates 26:36 The Blockchain Use Case Argument 35:46 Transaction Version Numbers and Standardization 38:30 Preventing Exploits and DDoS Attacks 40:10 Relay Policies and Economic Decisions 42:00 The Taproot Annex and OP_RETURN 45:07 Libre Relay 01:01:18 Future of Bitcoin and Soft Fork Proposals | 1h 13m 14s | ||||||
| 11/20/25 | ![]() Bitcoin's Cypherpunk Roots: Getting Security Through Privacy | With Obi Nwosu | “You can get security in two ways in this world: through power or through privacy.” Obi Nwosu, co-founder of Fedi - the largest application layer built on top of e-cash protocol Fedimint - joins me on the show to discuss its role in protecting what he argues is the single most important feature of digital money: Privacy. Self-custody alone, he argues, “is not enough” for protection against attacks by those with resources and physical power — e.g. governments or anyone able to execute force against you. While the most privileged democratic societies have remained relatively safe from government seizure in recent history - this could change at any moment - as financial surveillance and resulting censorship of political expression is gaining steam. Of course, for the world’s most vulnerable users of money — those living under the reign of authoritarian governments or other non-democratic principalities — censorship, seizure and political and financial oppression are regular threats rendering privacy critical for survival. In this episode, Obi and I cover: -Bitcoin’s cypherpunk roots and the vision of private e-cash mints on top of Bitcoin, nearly from day 1 -Why privacy and security go hand-in-hand - and why security without privacy is ultimately a lame duck -Why e-cash protocols like Fedimint are likely the most practical privacy protocols in the Bitcoin scaling world right now -How activists and civilians are using Fedi to escape financial and political oppression throughout the global south A powerful interview for those who want to more deeply understand the true purpose of Bitcoin and its cypherpunk roots, it’s worth spending some time with this one. This episode of Bitcoin Rails is powered by: - Best In Slot — the leading API for Ordinals and BRC-20 data aggregation and indexing. - Spark — a statechains implementation advancing Bitcoin-powered payments. - Citrea — the leading Bitcoin rollup technology and BitVM alliance contributor. 📌 Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:04 Background and Early Bitcoin Involvement 03:32 Challenges and Innovations in Bitcoin Privacy 06:10 The Importance of Privacy in a Free Society 28:03 Global Privacy Concerns and Future Outlook 40:46 Community Conversations and Functionalities 42:41 Diving Back into Technical Details 43:10 Real-World Applications and Challenges 44:39 Simplifying User Experience 47:20 Federation and Social Backup Mechanisms 01:11:25 Concluding Thoughts and Future Vision | 1h 22m 55s | ||||||
| 11/13/25 | ![]() How to Stake Bitcoin Natively | with David Tse | “99% of Bitcoin is held idle, not because of lack of interest, but because of lack of trust.” Not long after Ordinals (and BRC20) revitalized the “Bitcoin DeFi” narrative, Babylon Labs seemingly leapt onto the scene with what felt like overnight success – locking several billion dollars of TVL in its “trustless Bitcoin staking” protocol. With some of the most interesting advisors and contributors in the space (…seriously, what other projects can claim both Domo and Robin Linus as collaborators?), Babylon quickly became a “BTC-Fi” Goliath – converting both Bitcoin Season 2 types and formerly staunch ETH maxis alike. In this episode, I sit down with creator David Tse to get the protocol's birth story - and learn how POS staking became the first truly trustless Bitcoin DeFi application in the world. In this episode, we cover: - Why smaller POS chains need better security… and how Bitcoin liquidity may be the answer to securing experimental chains in smaller ecosystems - How David’s former experiences in the Cosmos ecosystem informed the core thesis of using Bitcoin to secure smaller chains - A quick breakdown of Babylon’s staking architecture - and what exactly makes it “trustless” - Babylon’s relationship with BitVM, and the team’s lesser known contributions to both BitVM2 and BitVM3 (Fun Fact: David Tse is Robin Linus's PhD advisor at Stanford 🧑🎓) - Why Bitcoiners didn’t want to stake their Bitcoin for yield until now… and how the "trustlessness" thesis is already panning out (with 1 whale dropping a whopping 10K Bitcoin in the protocol just a few months back!) Bitcoin Rails is powered by: - Best In Slot — the leading API for Ordinals and BRC-20 data aggregation and indexing. - Spark — a Statechains implementation advancing Bitcoin-powered payments. - Citrea — the leading Bitcoin rollup technology and BitVM alliance contributor. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 00:38 Bitcoin++ Insights 01:52 David’s Background and Information Theory 05:34 Journey into Bitcoin and Blockchain 07:34 Scaling Bitcoin with Prism Protocol 10:38 Babylon and Cosmos Ecosystem 13:51 Bitcoin Staking and Security Mechanisms 24:49 The Importance of Reputation in Crypto 25:51 Partners and Announcements Break 27:25 Profile of Babylon Stakers 29:17 The Grand Vision for Babylon 32:40 Garbled Circuits and Secret Revelation 44:05 Trustless Bitcoin Vaults and Future Prospects | 49m 39s | ||||||
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