Bottom Up

In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wiscondsin, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy discuss their experiences as young lawyers and the importance of law clerkships. They are joined by first-year associate Kate Goodhart and summer law clerk Dan Underwood, who share their perspectives. The conversation covers what employers look for in a good clerk, the importance of mentorship, and the value of doing impactful work. The hosts and guests also share their own experiences and offer advice for law students and young lawyers. Participants discuss the importance of owning mistakes and learning from them. They emphasize the need for grace from employers and the understanding that mistakes are a part of the learning process. They also highlight the significance of soft skills, such as punctuality, attention to detail, and curiosity. The conversation then shifts to the impact of technology, particularly AI, on the legal profession. The participants express concerns about job security and the impact of technology. They conclude by offering advice to new lawyers, including being themselves, embracing new learning opportunities, asking questions, getting involved, and being resilient. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Catching Up 06:13 The Value of Law Clerkships 11:10 What Employers Look for in a Good Clerk 13:28 The Importance of Mentorship in Law Clerkships 16:18 Doing Impactful Work as a Law Clerk 27:07 Seeking Opportunities and Making Connections as a Law Clerk 29:54 Owning Mistakes and Learning 32:42 The Importance of Soft Skills 37:54 The Impact of Technology on Job Security 45:18 The Role of Lawyers in Regulating AI 51:38 Advice for New Lawyers Takeaways Law clerks should be teachable, have a strong work ethic, and be willing to learn and grow. Employers look for candidates who are curious, coachable, and have a likable personality. Law clerks should seek out opportunities to do impactful work and make connections with their employers. It is important for law clerks to ask for feedback and constructive criticism to improve their skills. Law students and young lawyers should be open to exploring different areas of law and figuring out what they enjoy and excel at. Owning mistakes and learning from them is crucial in the legal profession. Employers should show grace and provide opportunities for new lawyers to fail and learn. Soft skills, such as punctuality and attention to detail, are important for success in the legal profession. Advice for new lawyers includes being themselves, embracing new learning opportunities, asking questions, getting involved, and being resilient.

Attorney Tom Watson, the featured guest in the latest episode of the Bottom Up Podcast produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, knows what it means to reinvent yourself. Tom started his career in broadcast radio. He interviewed big names like Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson, entertainer Red Skelton, and others. At age 37, Tom enrolled in law school. He's now the CEO and president of Wisconsin Lawyers Mutual Insurance Company (WILMIC). From radio to public relations, from family law attorney to legal malpractice insurance executive, Tom talks about his multi-phased career path before diving deep into the world of legal malpractice insurance, and the parade of horribles. Co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward steer the conversation with Tom, who has been with WILMIC for almost two decades. They learn that Tom approaches his role in helping lawyers with enthusiasm and deep knowledge of the legal malpractice insurance industry. Tom says estate planning continues to be a high-risk area, as claims can come from disenfranchised, third-party beneficiaries. But he also says claims that stem from cyber fraud and/or social engineering are on the rise, and lawyers should be on the lookout. Tom, a natural storyteller, shares stories about "craziest claims" he's seen in his two decades at WILMIC. Throughout the show, Tom provides advice for lawyers in their early years and beyond. That includes taking time to build relationships, being patient with success, and finding your passion. Chapters 00:00: The Great American Eclipse and Tom Watson, the Early Years 19:32: From Radio to Law 29:46: The Importance of Showing Up 38:37: The Growing Threat of Social Engineering and Cyber Fraud 52:40: The Need for Malpractice Insurance 1:02:16: Challenges in Estate Planning and Disputes 1:11:45: Other Common Areas for Malpractice Claims 1:25:01: The Flexibility of a JD in Career Choices

Simply defined, human trafficking is the exploitation of human beings for someone else's gain, according to Erika Petty, executive director at Milwaukee-based Lotus Legal Clinic, a nonprofit that provides free legal services exclusively to victims of human trafficking. As you'll discover in Episode 16 of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, while human trafficking can be simply defined, the complexity of the issue spans the nation and the globe, and hits home right here in Wisconsin. To close out January, which is National Human Trafficking Prevention Month, Bottom Up co-host Kristen Hardy sat down with Petty to discuss the complexities of the human trafficking problem. Along the way, we hear about the different ways in which human traffickers identify vulnerable people or populations and use that to exploit them for financial and other gain. We hear how victims are forced and coerced to commit crimes and give up all autonomy, making it difficult or impossible to escape, as the victim often depends on their traffickers for survival. We hear how victims are lured with promises into isolated situations, and forced into unpaid labor. "Trafficking is definitely a hidden crime and there can be red flags, but those red flags are only going to be visible if the victim is engaging in society in a way in which people are looking out for that person," said Petty, noting that traffickers know how to keep victims isolated. But Petty also provides hope, and pathways for lawyers and others to help, through the donation of time or resources. Her work and the work of Lotus Legal Clinic involves the enforcement of crime victims' rights, criminal record relief, civil legal services involving housing, credit repair, workplace protections, and other issues. The clinic also helps victims on a pathway to healing.

As younger lawyers enter the profession, how do they collaborate and communicate effectively with older generations, who may collaborate differently? What are the current trends, challenges, and opportunities for solo and small firms in the practice management and technology space? These are some of the questions that co-host Emil Ovbiagele and Joe Forward (guest host) explore with guests Erin Ogden and Brent Hoeft. This is the second episode in a two-parter focused on solo and small firms, recorded from the 2023 Wisconsin Solo & Small Firm Conference. Erin Ogden – a partner and co-founder of Ogden Glazer+Schaefer in Madison – dives into smaller firm practice management issues (first 23:19). The pandemic, she says, caused a seismic shift in how law firms operate. In addition, younger generations are entering the profession with a whole new perspective on effective communication through the use of technology. "The way I manage is not going to be the same as someone who was [born in the 2000s]," Ogden says. "Not in a bad way. Diversification is key. They are coming up with new ideas and new ways of looking at things. In addition, we do a lot of work with [younger clients]. How do I talk to them?" She noted that email may not be a primary form of communication for younger generations. In the second segment (starting at 23:20), Brent Hoeft discusses the challenges and opportunities that rapidly evolving technology brings to solo and small firm practice. Hoeft, who started a virtual law practice as a solo practitioner over a decade ago, is the new practice management advisor for the State Bar's Law Office Management Assistance Program (also known as Practice 411™). Hoeft highlights common technology issues, how different generations approach privacy and security (and what that means for law firms), the opportunities to save significant time and money using evolving technology, and how Practice 411 can help as a member benefit.

In Episode 13 of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy talk with Karina O'Brien, an attorney at Kostner, Koslo & Brovold LLC in Arcadia, Wisconsin. The topic? Rural practice in Wisconsin. The challenges. The opportunities. The shortage of attorneys in rural Wisconsin. A 2014 U.W. Law School graduate, Karina grew up in Arcadia, located 45 miles south of Eau Claire. She didn't think she would return to her hometown to live and work, but a local law firm offered her a job out of law school, and her father championed the opportunity as a good start. "Give it a try," Karina recalls him saying. "You can always move on." Now, almost a decade later, there's no place Karina would rather be (except maybe skiing). With a sharp wit and good humor, Karina highlights a day in the life of her rural practice, including the sense of community that comes with it. Karina said Arcadia, like many smaller towns in Wisconsin, is a place where the community is rooting for you to succeed, and the support of other attorneys in the TriCounty Bar Association is unmatched. Amid shortages of attorneys in rural areas – with many older rural attorneys retiring and few to replace them – Kristen, Emil, and Karina explore what can be done to attract attorneys to rural parts of the state. Opportunities abound, and potential solutions emerge, but where do we go from here?

Fresh off a one-year term as president of the State Bar of Wisconsin, family and elder law attorney Margaret Hickey, of Milwaukee, discusses the importance of leadership, including service to a State Bar membership of more than 25,000 attorneys. Co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy engage Hickey - the fourth consecutive woman to serve as president - in discussions about the role of State Bar leaders, including the State Bar's Board of Governors, and how leaders tackle issues important to the legal profession. Hickey also talks about some of the major (and difficult) issues State Bar leaders tackled this past year, and what the future holds. A 37-year veteran of the legal profession, Hickey uses her own experiences to provide insights for young lawyers navigating their careers.

In Episode 9 of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-hosts Kristen Hardy and Emil Ovbiagele speak with Milwaukee-based attorney Nate Cade, who wakes up at exactly 4:06 a.m. every morning to start his routine. A heavy-hitting litigator who often works on high-profile cases, Cade spent the first 17 years of his career at a large law firm, honing his craft as a trial lawyer and making his own opportunities. One day, about a decade ago, he decided to hang his own shingle. In this episode, we learn why Cade made the decision to go solo after 17 years, the challenges and opportunities of doing so, and what it means to take extreme ownership of your career.

Milwaukee attorney Larry Whitley went straight from law school to an in-house counsel position, working on billion dollar deals in real estate right out the gate. In the latest episode of the Bottom Up Podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-hosts Kristen Hardy and Emil Ovbiagele chat with Whitley about his journey. "There's no right path, just your path," Whitley says. The Rufus King High School and Marquette University Law School graduate - a former Milwaukee Bucks ball boy and Marquette University Men's Basketball team manager - also discusses giving back to his community, and those who had the biggest influence on his path to the law.