Carbon Exposure

The Carbon Exposure Podcast closes Season 4 with something different: a special moderated debate on the question that shapes the entire voluntary carbon market.Is carbon more like a commodity, or is it more like a bond?The answer is not academic. It determines how the market is structured, how credits are priced, how liquidity is built, and ultimately whether the market can scale to the level the climate demands.Moderated by Assoc Prof Daniel Lee, Centre Director of the Carbon Markets Academy of Singapore at NTU, this conversation brings together two of the market's most experienced voices to argue opposite ends of the debate:Rene Velasquez, host of Carbon Exposure and Managing Partner at Valitera, argues the commodity case. His experience running the environmental products desk at Xpansiv and now leading market-making at Valitera informs a view that carbon can be standardized, benchmarked, and traded like other commodities with grades.Tommy Ricketts, CEO and Co-founder of BeZero Carbon, argues the risk-based case. His 2023 op-ed made the argument that carbon credits are imperfect, probabilistic, and complex, and that pretending otherwise makes any single imperfection existential to the whole market.What follows is a frank, informed, and at times surprising exchange on the substance of what a carbon credit is, what it needs to become, and what it will take to scale.In this episode, we cover:- Tommy's original thesis: why treating carbon as "one ton is a ton" makes the market fragile- The "high priest of carbon" critique of moving the accreditation bar higher- Rene's commodity case: heterogeneity, grades, and basis trading in oil and agriculture- How the market ended up relying on ratings as the proxy for quality- The 2001-2002 GEO / NGO contracts and what they teach us about spec design- Rubicon Carbon's portfolio-based approach as a hybrid model- What we're actually solving for: liquidity, atmospheric returns, or price discovery- Post-issuance ratings sitting at B to double-B median (a market wake-up call)- Why a scaled carbon market may not need to be financialized at all- The "climate industrialist" argument: waiting for the fruits of a decade of work to speak for themselves- Tommy's vision for ratings: boring rails, part of the furniture- Rene's closing case for optimism as the market moves from integrity to demandIf you work in carbon markets, climate finance, exchanges, ratings, or standards, this is a landmark conversation. And if you're new to the market, this is the single best debate you can listen to for understanding why the fundamentals still matter.Chapters[00:00] Intro[01:08] Commodity or Bond?[02:55] The 2023 Op-Ed Thesis[06:18] The "High Priest of Carbon" Critique[08:25] Commodity, With Grades[11:17] Ratings as the Market's Proxy for Quality[14:11] GEO/NGO Contract Lessons[16:54] Basis Trading in Commodities[19:24] What Are We Solving For?[24:18] We've Solved Integrity, Now Build the Why[26:16] Post-Issuance Ratings[27:11] The Third Path[28:41] The Climate Industrialist Argument[33:26] Tommy's Vision[34:19] Rene's Closing#CarbonMarkets #ClimateFinance #CarbonCredits #BeZeroCarbon #NTU #CarbonMarketsAcademy #ICVCM #CarbonExposurePodcast

In Episode 9 of Season 4 of the Carbon Exposure Podcast, we sit down with Amy Merrill, CEO of the Integrity Council for the Voluntary Carbon Market (ICVCM) — the independent body whose Core Carbon Principles have become the reference framework for what a high-integrity carbon credit actually is.Amy came to the CEO seat at the end of 2024 after years leading Article 6 negotiations at the UN, and before that as legal advisor for the Kyoto Protocol mechanisms. She was part of the UN team that supported the Paris Agreement negotiations in 2015, and led the UN's Article 6 support all the way through to the rule book being adopted at COP26 in Glasgow.The ICVCM sits as the independent trust layer of the carbon market. Through its ten Core Carbon Principles, it assesses the world's carbon crediting programs at the governance level and every individual methodology on the science. Credits that pass both checks earn the CCP label — a globally agreed floor for integrity that has quickly become the reference standard the market is building on.That double-tick system has built something the market lacked before: a comparable, investable definition of what a high-integrity credit actually is. Buyers now show CCP preferences in their procurement. Governments in the UK, New Zealand, and beyond are adopting CCP-eligibility into national policy. National carbon crediting programs have just become eligible for ICVCM assessment themselves.In this conversation, we cover:- Amy's path from carbon finance lawyer to UN Article 6 lead to ICVCM CEO- The origins of the ICVCM under Mark Carney's Task Force- The 10 Core Carbon Principles and the "double-tick" assessment system- Why the whole market has come around the CCPs- How governments in the UK, New Zealand, and the African Union are co-opting CCPs into national policy- Why national standards can now apply for CCP approval- The reframe from "co-benefits" to rights-centric "core benefits"- The ICVCM's indigenous peoples engagement forum- The "big tent approach" to thought leadership- The demand-side challenge and coalitions like ARC and the Coalition to Grow Carbon MarketsIf you work in carbon markets, climate finance, policy, standards, or corporate sustainability, this is a must-listen episode.Chapters[00:00] Intro[02:20] From CDM Lawyer to UNFCCC Legal Advisor[03:25] Paris Agreement and Leading Article 6 to Glasgow[04:29] Joining ICVCM as CEO[07:02] From Mark Carney's Task Force to the Integrity Council[09:29] The 10 Core Carbon Principles Explained[11:26] The Double-Tick System and What CCP Approval Means[12:47] The Cambrian Explosion of Standards[15:10] Buyer Preferences and Government Endorsements[17:55] Interconnecting Voluntary and Compliance Markets[21:05] Why National Standards Can Now Apply for CCP Approval[24:20] From "Co-Benefits" to "Core Benefits"[27:09] The Indigenous Peoples Engagement Forum[28:32] The ICVCM's Thought Leadership Role[34:50] The Demand-Side Challenge and the ARC Coalition#CarbonMarkets #ClimateFinance #CarbonCredits #ICVCM #CCPs #Article6 #CarbonExposurePodcast

In Episode 7 of Season 4 of the Carbon Exposure Podcast, we sit down with Tripurari Prasad, Deputy Head of Carbon, Investments at Climate Asset Management (CAM) — the joint venture between HSBC and Pollination that has committed over US$1 billion to nature as an institutional asset class.Tripurari's path to carbon is unusual: a decade in oil and gas, then South Pole (where he worked on one of the first Article 6.2 discussions, with Switzerland's KliK Foundation and the Thai government), then HSBC's carbon trading desk, and now leading capital deployment for CAM's emerging markets strategy.That seat — at the intersection of carbon, nature-based solutions, and institutional finance — gives him a perspective most carbon practitioners don't have. One that prompts this counter-intuitive line:"Carbon is not the core part of the story. It is always a side benefit."We explore what it actually takes to make nature an investable asset class, why most carbon projects fail on operations rather than methodology, how institutional capital is bifurcating between offtake-led and project-equity-led approaches, and where the next wave of demand is going to come from.In this episode, we cover:- Tripurari's path from oil and gas, through South Pole and HSBC, to CAM- How CAM is structured: natural capital strategy vs emerging markets carbon strategy- Why 10,000 hectares is the institutional minimum for nature investments- Why "carbon is the catalyst, not the destination" reframes the entire investment thesis- How CAM stacks carbon with coffee, cacao, and bamboo supply chains- Why 90% of project failures are operational, not methodological- The split between offtake-led and project-equity-led financing- Capital stacking, priority rights, and the maturing of carbon as infrastructure- Why capital is not finite — and what's needed to unlock it (15–18% IRR expectations for emerging markets)- Why Isometric freezing protocols is a model for the certainty institutional capital requires- Whether 2030 net zero commitments are hard targets or soft targets- The standardization gap and why the market needs an ISDA equivalent for carbon contracts- The talent gap and cross-pollination from infrastructure and financeIf you work in carbon markets, climate finance, nature-based solutions, project finance, or institutional investment in climate, this is a must-listen episode.Chapters[00:00] Intro[02:06] From Oil & Gas to Carbon Markets[07:33] South Pole and Article 6.2[09:13] Inside Climate Asset Management (CAM)[13:22] Why "10,000 Hectares" Is the Floor[14:20] "Carbon Is Not the Core of the Story"[16:02] Stacking Carbon With Coffee, Cacao & Bamboo[21:49] Why 90% of Projects Fail on Operations[27:38] Offtake-Led vs Project-Equity Financing[32:11] Capital Stacking & Priority Rights[34:37] Why Capital Is Not Finite[44:18] The Case for Certainty in Carbon Markets[46:16] Where the Demand Is Actually Coming From[49:25] 2030: Hard Target or Soft Target?[54:26] The Standardization Gap[59:56] The Talent & Cross-Pollination Problem#CarbonMarkets #ClimateFinance #NatureBasedSolutions #CarbonCredits #NBS #InstitutionalCapital #ProjectFinance #CarbonExposurePodcast

In Episode 5 of Season 4 of the Carbon Exposure Podcast, we sit back down with Patrick Greenfield, biodiversity reporter at The Guardian.Two years ago, Patrick's investigative reporting helped trigger the carbon market's integrity reckoning. Many in the market have quietly blamed him for the demand collapse that followed. This conversation gets into it.Late last year, Patrick travelled back to Kasigau Corridor in Kenya — the first ever REDD+ project registered on Verra — to see what had changed. What he found: communities promised long-term funding that simply isn't arriving anymore. Prices have collapsed. Methodologies have shifted from VM7 to VM48. The conservation work continues, but with far less capital behind it.He shares his view that the carbon market's "demand collapse" narrative may be a self-pitying story — that the misallocation of capital, not media criticism, was the real problem — and that the same "big beasts" who presided over the previous market still hold the mic on what comes next.This is not a comfortable conversation. It's a necessary one.In this episode, we cover:•⁠ ⁠Why Patrick went back to Kasigau Corridor and what he found on the ground•⁠ ⁠How the Trump administration's USAID, EPA, and aid cuts have reshaped global conservation funding•⁠ ⁠Whether the voluntary carbon market can survive without policy tailwinds•⁠ ⁠How the VM7 to VM48 methodology shift is reshaping project economics•⁠ ⁠Why visual "boundary line" photos misrepresent how counterfactuals actually work•⁠ ⁠Whether net zero commitments and the Paris Agreement still hold credibility•⁠ ⁠The reporter accountability question: did journalism cause the demand collapse?•⁠ ⁠Why Patrick calls the market's grievance "a slightly self-pitying story"•⁠ ⁠The "big beasts" holding the mic and why new voices aren't being heard•⁠ ⁠Why his reporting focus is shifting toward biodiversity lossIf you work in carbon markets, climate finance, sustainability, policy, project development, or climate journalism, this is a must-listen episode.Chapters[00:00] Intro & Welcome Back[02:00] Why He Went Back to Kasigau Corridor[07:00] Trump, USAID & the Climate Vacuum[08:20] Is This the VCM's Moment of Truth?[10:42] No More Chances for the VCM[17:30] Counterfactuals & The Boundary Line Trap[23:30] Is the Paris Agreement Still Alive?[26:00] The Role of Civil Society & Media[29:00] What He Found Back at Kasigau Corridor[32:30] Methodology Shifts and the Haircut[35:00] Did Journalism Cause the Demand Collapse?[36:25] On the Side of the Angels[41:30] The Big Beasts Holding the Mic[45:00] Markets, Conservation & The Profit of Deforestation[51:30] The Self-Pitying Story[53:00] Carbon Neutral Claims & Consumer Deception[01:01:20] Conspiracy Theories About Climate Reporting[01:05:00] Biodiversity, Hope & What Keeps Him Going#CarbonMarkets #ClimateFinance #CarbonCredits #VCM #REDDPlus #Biodiversity #ClimateJournalism #CarbonExposurePodcast

In Episode 3 of Season 4 of the Carbon Exposure Podcast, we sit down with Finn O'Muircheartaigh, General Manager APAC at BeZero Carbon.As carbon markets mature, one of the biggest questions facing the industry is simple:How do we turn carbon credits from a leap of faith into an investable asset class?Finn brings a unique perspective shaped by experience in government, policy, and now carbon markets. In this conversation, we explore how ratings, data, and risk analysis are helping build trust, improve price discovery, and attract more institutional capital into both voluntary and compliance carbon markets.We also discuss the growing role of Asia-Pacific, why Singapore is becoming a major carbon hub, and how Article 6 could reshape global demand and supply.In this episode, we cover:• Why carbon ratings emerged and how they work• How quality increasingly drives pricing in carbon markets• Why investors need better risk tools before deploying capital• The intersection of voluntary and compliance markets• How ratings may support Article 6 and CORSIA markets• Why portfolio products could unlock new demand• Why APAC may lead the next phase of carbon market growthIf you work in carbon markets, climate finance, sustainability, policy, or investing, this is a must-listen episode.Chapters00:00 Introduction03:08 What BeZero Carbon Does08:26 Why Carbon Ratings Matter15:30 How BeZero Was Built20:11 Quality Drives Price27:40 Ratings in Compliance Markets34:24 Singapore, Article 6 & APAC39:16 Ratings for Compliance Markets47:20 Portfolio Ratings & Risk Management59:34 Why Finn Is Optimistic for APAC#CarbonMarkets #ClimateFinance #CarbonCredits #BeZero #Article6 #APAC #CarbonExposurePodcast

In this episode of the Carbon Exposure Podcast, we sit down with Perumal Arumugam from the UNFCCC for an in-depth discussion on Article 6 of the Paris Agreement and what it means for the future of global carbon markets.As countries move from rule-setting to real implementation, Article 6 is becoming one of the most important mechanisms for scaling climate finance and enabling international carbon trading. We explore how Article 6.4 (PACM) is being operationalized, how it compares to Article 6.2, and where supply and demand for carbon credits are expected to come from in the coming years.Perumal shares insights from inside the UNFCCC on the transition from Kyoto to Paris, Article 6 implementation, supply and demand dynamics, registry infrastructure, and the outlook toward 2030.Chapters:00:00: Intro & Background06:25: From Kyoto to Paris10:49: Article 6.4 Explained12:32: Supply & Demand Fundamentals15:10: Host Country Bottlenecks20:45 Article 6.2 vs 6.427:48: Multilateral Advantage of Article 6.433:29: First Issuances & CDM Transition38:11: Project Pipeline & New Methodologies41:17: Registry Infrastructure Overview46:24: Interoperability & Registry Architecture54:39: Outlook to 2030This conversation is essential listening for anyone working or interested in:- Carbon markets- Climate finance- Article 6 implementation- Corporate climate strategy- Carbon credit project development- Government policy and compliance marketsThe Carbon Exposure Podcast brings conversations with leading experts shaping the future of carbon markets, removals, and climate finance.#CarbonMarkets #Article6 #ParisAgreement #CarbonCredits #ClimateFinance #UNFCCC #CarbonExposure #CarbonExposurePodcast #NDC #CORSIA #ClimatePolicy

How Verity Nature is Planting 4 Billion Trees in Kenya 🌳 | Duncan Van Der MerweIn this episode of Carbon Exposure, we sit down with Duncan Van Der Merwe – Co-founder & Chair of Verity Nature to unpack one of the world’s most ambitious nature-based climate programmes.Verity Nature is a profit-for-purpose company that designs, builds and operates large-scale nature restoration projects with local communities at the centre. From their base in Australia, with teams in New Zealand, East Africa and beyond, they focus on high-integrity carbon and co-benefit credits backed by science, technology and long-term operations. Their projects span reforestation and landscape regeneration in New Zealand (e.g. Black Hill Station in Canterbury and a large natural regeneration programme in the Chatham Islands) and blue carbon restoration pilots in Australia, where they’re restoring coastal and tidal ecosystems as future carbon sinks. At the heart of this conversation is Kenya. Under President Ruto’s national drive to plant 15 billion trees by 2032, the Kenyan government has asked Verity Nature to help restore degraded landscapes at unprecedented scale. Verity has proposed reforesting up to 4 billion native trees as part of this effort – potentially the largest ARR (Afforestation/Reforestation/Revegetation) programme in the voluntary carbon market. Their model combines:Infrastructure-grade project design – 40-year operations with long-term permanence rightsCommunity-led restoration – partnering with local organisations like CCB Corridors and using mobile tools (e.g. “Si Si Na Miti”) so farmers and grandmothers can plant trees, track survival and earn incomeTech from satellites to blockchain – remote sensing, MRV and digital traceability to show exactly where credits come from and how trees are performing over timeWhat we cover: 00:00 – Introduction: Why Nature-Based Removals Need Infrastructure Thinking04:30 – Verity Nature’s Model: Building & Operating Long-Term Projects09:00 – Why East Africa? Strategic Focus on Kenya and Uganda14:00 – The Kenya Project: Tying into President Ruto’s 15-Billion-Tree Vision19:30 – Planting Up to 4 Billion Trees: Scale, Design and Execution25:00 – Communities, Farmers and Grandmothers: Why Women Are Central31:00 – Tech Stack: From Satellites to Blockchain for Integrity & MRV38:00 – Risk Management & Delivery: Avoiding the Non-Delivery Trap45:00 – The 400M Credit Pipeline & the 2030 Removals Gap51:00 – What Buyers Should Do Now & Closing Reflections

The Carbon Exposure Project is back to wrap up Season 3 of the Carbon Exposure Project after the summer break!This week, we sit down in Singapore with John Sharp, co-founder of Hatcher — an investor, technologist, and builder who has helped raise hundreds of millions for nature-based climate projects.John brings a rare investor’s lens to the voluntary carbon markets: what really happened after the Guardian exposé, why investor confidence evaporated, and how capital is now pivoting toward infrastructure-grade climate solutions.From the rise and fall of Carbon Nation to bold bets on green steel, carbontech, and even a space-based sunshield, this episode explores where the next generation of climate investments will come from — and what makes them truly bankable.💡 In this episode:💸 The Carbon Nation story — raising $250M for nature-based solutions before the 2023 crash📉 How sentiment collapsed after the Guardian article — and what that meant for investors🏗️ The shift toward infrastructure-grade assets: green steel, cement, and carbontech🌍 What makes a project “bankable” in climate finance🚀 John’s next frontier: Earth Guard, a satellite project designed to stabilize Earth’s temperatureChapters: 00:00 – Introduction: From Music to Markets05:30 – Building Hatcher: Automating Venture Capital07:00 – Entering Carbon: Launching Carbon Nation09:30 – Market Shock: The Guardian Article & Carbon Crisis15:00 – Lessons from the Field: Soil, Cookstoves & Mangroves23:40 – Pivoting Strategy: From Carbon to Green Infrastructure34:50 – The Bigger Picture: How Large Is the Carbon Market Really?38:00 – Policy & the Politics of Carbon Pricing45:00 – Investing in Climate Tech: Hardware, Deep Tech & Patience55:30 – Beyond Earth: The Earth Guard Project

During the IETA European Climate Summit held in Lisbon, we spoke with some inspiring voices at the conference. In this European Climate Summit Special Episode, we're joined by Stephanie Zhu, former sustainability member at Delta Air Lines, and now active as Director of Climate at Yum! Brands. Topics discussed: 00:00 – introductionA light intro leading into the live recording at the European Climate Summit.01:25 – Stephanie Zhu’s Sustainability JourneyFrom finance to ESG leadership at Delta Airlines and Yum! Brands.03:42 – Inside Delta: Navigating the Voluntary Carbon Market A first-hand look at how one of the world’s biggest airlines approached offsets.05:10 – Reduce and Invest: A Dual Strategy for DecarbonizationWhy internal reductions and external investments must go hand-in-hand.06:57 – Carbon Markets Are Complicated—Here’s WhyChallenges in understanding offsets, additionality, and building a credible portfolio.10:55 – From Aviation to Agriculture: Cross-Sector Climate StrategyThe different decarbonization hurdles across industries—and how to tackle them.14:05 – The Voluntary ParadoxWhy companies taking climate action face more scrutiny than those doing nothing.16:00 – A Pragmatic Path Forward for Corporate Climate ActionLet’s not let perfection stall progress—what realism looks like in sustainability.

During the IETA European Climate Summit held in Lisbon, we spoke with some inspiring voices at the conference. In this European Climate Summit Special Episode, we're joined by Sandra Pinzón García, Founder & CEO of Global Zero Waste. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the episode! Topics discussed in this episode: 00:00 – Introduction & Sandra’s mission in circular economy 01:26 – From carbon markets to plastic credits 02:54 – Defining circular economy: water, energy & materials 06:03 – The rise of plastic credits & Cercarbono partnership 09:04 – Building a new methodology for global recycling projects 10:24 – Innovation, R&D and project transformation 14:53 – Scaling impact through zero-waste strategies 18:37 – Sandra’s reflections on climate leadership

this episode, we're joined by Daniel Lee, an Associate Professor in Carbon Markets at the Nanyang Business School. Before transitioning to academia full-time, he spent close to 18 years in the industry, where he undertook a variety of roles across the Energy and Decarbonization value chains, including Commodity Trading, Acquisitions & Divestments, and Capital Project Delivery.This episode's discussed topics: 00:00 – Welcome & IntroductionSetting the stage for the conversation and the importance of carbon market education.01:50 – Daniel’s Journey: From Trading Desks to AcademiaA look at Daniel’s professional background, early involvement in carbon markets, and the winding path to teaching.07:23 – Why Academia? Daniel’s Motivation to TeachWhat inspired the transition from industry to education—and why giving back matters.10:13 – Building the Carbon Market Academy at NTUHow NTU’s new initiative is shaping future talent for the carbon services and trading sector.21:50 – Evolving Carbon Markets & The Need for Continuous LearningInsights into the current state of carbon markets and the importance of staying sharp in a transforming space.30:10 – Why Education is the Backbone of Climate FinanceExploring the critical role of structured learning in empowering new and existing professionals in the space.34:52 – What Motivates the Next Generation to Join Carbon Markets?Understanding the perspectives, anxieties, and hopes of students and young professionals entering the field.42:25 – Singapore’s Carbon Hub VisionHow Singapore is positioning itself as a global carbon market hub—and what’s driving its rapid ecosystem growth.

For this episode, the Carbon Exposure Project traveled to Kuala Lumpur to visit the Bursa Malaysia Carbon Market Forum 2024. We sat down with the head of carbon markets at Bursa Malaysia, Dr. Wei Nee, to talk about ongoing carbon market developments in Malaysia and Asia.Bursa Malaysia led the development and implementation of a Malaysian carbon market framework, leading to the launch of the Bursa Carbon Exchange, BCX, in December 2022. BCX offers a diverse portfolio of standardized carbon credit products, differentiating between nature-based and technological solutions that mitigate emissions. With two recent auctions for carbon credits and Renewable Energy Certificates (RECs), BCX effectively focuses on these two key verticals, enhancing its market offering.As Malaysia and other Asian countries prepare for COP, Bursa Malaysia is taking an active role in fostering regional collaboration. Dr. Wei Nee shares insights on how they intend to work with neighboring countries like Thailand, Indonesia, and Singapore to build a unified Asian carbon framework.Join us as we dive into the evolving landscape of carbon markets in Asia and explore how Malaysia is positioning itself at the forefront of this critical transition. Timestamps:00:00 Introduction to Wei Nee, Bursa Malaysia, and BCX03:02 The Diverse Portfolio of BCX08:28 Creating an Ecosystem at BCX11:28 Key Takeaways from the Carbon Market Forum15:12 Why Are Carbon Markets Not Allowed to Evolve?17:39 Carbon Collaboration Within the ASEAN Region23:25 The Domestic Ambitions of BCX27:55 BCX’s Expectations for COP2929:30 Advancing Carbon Project Financing as a Multi-Asset Exchange37:46 End Note

For this episode, we invited Ana Haurie, CEO of Respira International. In collaboration with other organizations, Respira launched the Reduce and Invest Campaign in September, encouraging businesses to balance their carbon emissions by simultaneously reducing emissions and investing in climate solutions through the VCM. Their mission is to promote rapid decarbonization while channeling investments to accelerate global net zero. Companies must take immediate action to account for their emissions today, not just in the future. This approach benefits both the planet and businesses, driving long-term value and leadership in climate responsibility. This episode was recorded before the launch of this new campaign, but it highlights the need for such initiatives. In this episode, Rene talks with Ana about Respira, the current state of the VCM, and what is necessary to scale it. Enjoy this episode! timestamps: 00:00 Introduction to Respira 01:49 Project developers; the demand uncertainty 04:24 The returning VCM support 10:30 Solving market issues 12:30 Nature-based solutions are left behind 16:06 Reducing barriers to entry 19:10 Co-benefits should be rewarded 23:43 Insurance companies 25:26 Institutionalization of the VCM 30:43 Reingaging the demand side to scale