China Considered

In this episode, Liz Economy sits down with Sarah Beran, a veteran US Foreign Service officer who served across six administrations, most recently as senior director for China and Taiwan at the National Security Council under President Biden. Beran traces her career from post-9/11 stints in the Middle East and South Asia, discussing how working outside of China early in her career gave her a sharper sense of how third countries assess their own interests when caught between Washington and Beijing. With experience across multiple administrations, the two touch on the contrasts between Republican and Democratic approaches to China policy, with Beran arguing that the ideal sits somewhere in between. The two conclude by looking ahead to the Trump-Xi summit and what possible outcomes we may or may not see. Recorded on May 12, 2026. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Nadia Schadlow, former deputy national security advisor for strategy in the first Trump administration and author of the influential 2017 National Security Strategy (NSS). Schadlow reflects on how the NSS was architected around the shift toward great power competition and America's four core national security interests: protecting the homeland and way of life; promoting American prosperity; preserving peace through strength; and advancing American influence. The conversation moves through key differences between the first and second Trump administrations, including process, tone, and the role of ideology in foreign policy, before turning to a substantive debate about the limits of multilateral institutions and Schadlow's argument in a recent Foreign Affairs essay that state-centric approaches can outperform global governance frameworks. Economy and Schadlow also assess the strategic landscape ahead of a potential Trump-Xi summit, discussing where US leverage is real, where it may be overstated, and whether tariffs alone can move China's economic model. They close with a shared critique: that the United States has consistently failed to develop a coherent, assertive diplomatic and development strategy to compete with China's Belt and Road Initiative. Recorded on April 2, 2026. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Lingling Wei, Chief China Correspondent for the Wall Street Journal, sit down for a wide ranging conversation on China’s purges, her personal story and look ahead to US-China relations for 2026. They begin with the recent ouster of General Zhang Youxia's from China's Central Military Commission and what it reveals about Xi Jinping's consolidation of power ahead of the 2026 Party Congress. Wei then shares her personal journey from being inspired by her mother to take up journalism in China to being expelled by Beijing in 2020, and how she continues reporting on China. The two then conclude with a discussion on the US and China. Wei describes U.S.-China relations as a "tactical pause" where both sides pursue strategic decoupling while managing a "messy separation," with China building its economy on a "war footing" for potential conflict over Taiwan. Lastly, the two agree on the need to understand everyday Chinese struggles, not just Xi's policies, even as Beijing turns the country into a "black box" for foreign reporters. Recorded on January 31, 2026. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Patrick McGee, Financial Times technology journalist and author of "Apple in China," discussing how Apple's deep integration into China's manufacturing ecosystem inadvertently helped build China into the industrial powerhouse it is today. McGee traces Apple's journey from near-bankruptcy in the late 1990s to becoming deeply dependent on Chinese manufacturing, explaining how Apple didn't just outsource production but actively trained Chinese factories and transferred sophisticated manufacturing knowledge that later benefited competitors like Huawei and Xiaomi. The two explore critical inflection points, including Apple's partnership with Foxconn, political tensions with Xi Jinping's government in 2013, and Tim Cook's decision to double down on China rather than diversify despite growing risks. McGee argues that Apple's current dependence on China is so profound that meaningful diversification to India or the United States faces enormous practical and economic obstacles, with Chinese manufacturing capabilities now potentially surpassing Apple's own expertise. The episode concludes with McGee advocating for a realistic U.S. policy that accepts manufacturing across allies, while warning that Americans fundamentally underestimate how technologically sophisticated China has become. Recorded on December 10, 2025. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy talks with Dr. Joanna Lewis and Dr. Scott Moore to explore China's commanding position in the global clean energy sector and its far-reaching implications. The two experts explain how China has become both the world's largest manufacturer and consumer of clean energy technologies, dominating supply chains from raw materials through finished products like solar panels, wind turbines, and batteries. The conversation tackles the complex question of whether China can be considered a climate leader, revealing a mixed picture of impressive renewable energy investments alongside continued heavy coal dependence. Additionally, the three address China's recent export restrictions on rare earth materials, examining whether this move strengthens or undermines China's strategic position in ongoing trade tensions with the United States. The discussion concludes with recommendations for U.S. policy, including avoiding the reversal of clean energy progress and potentially negotiating deals with Chinese companies to keep American industries competitive. Recorded on October 23, 2025. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Host Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Yanzhong Huang, a leading expert on China's public health system, examining how China has evolved from the COVID-19 pandemic and its growing role in global health diplomacy. The two explore China’s dramatic policy pivots—from initial inaction to draconian zero-COVID lockdowns to sudden reopening—and analyze why meaningful domestic reforms and transparency remain elusive despite lessons from the crisis. Huang discusses China's strategic health diplomacy, particularly how its provision of vaccines and medical supplies during COVID earned goodwill in developing countries. The conversation reveals how U.S. withdrawal from global health institutions creates opportunities for China to expand its influence through the Health Silk Road initiative, requiring minimal effort to fill the vacuum left by the American absence. Huang argues that the unresolved controversy over COVID-19's origins and deep mistrust between Washington and Beijing have effectively frozen bilateral health cooperation, making dialogue nearly impossible even in an area traditionally viewed as ripe for collaboration. Recorded on October 1, 2025. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Host Dr. Elizabeth Economy interviews Noah Barkin, senior advisor with the Rhodium Group, about the evolving EU-China relationship following their July 2025 summit celebrating 50 years of diplomatic ties. Barkin traces Europe's awakening to the China challenge and China's designation as a "systemic rival" in 2019, explaining how the EU has developed its own distinct approach to managing Chinese economic competition. The conversation explores why China's strategy of leveraging Trump-era U.S.-Europe tensions to drive a wedge between allies has largely failed, with Europe maintaining its critical stance on issues like Chinese overcapacity and support for Russia. Barkin discusses the different approaches among EU member states, the significance of China's rare earth controls, and Wang Yi's surprising admission that Beijing wants to keep the U.S. "distracted" with the Ukraine war. Drawing on his expertise from Berlin, Barkin offers insights into whether Europe can maintain unity on China policy and what tools the EU needs to address the growing economic and security challenges posed by Chinese behavior. Recorded on July 29, 2025. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Hoover Fellows Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Dr. Amy Zegart discuss the "DeepSeek moment"— when China's DeepSeek AI model surprised U.S. markets by replicating OpenAI's performance using fewer resources and an open-source approach. The two explore the strategic implications of open versus closed AI models, with there being an argument that the U.S. should embrace more open research approaches rather than closed models. They highlight how China is successfully replicating America's historical innovation model—investing heavily in long-term basic science—while the U.S. has reduced federal R&D spending. The two scholars conclude with policy recommendations, including fixing K-12 math education, creating a national computer infrastructure for universities, and strengthening partnerships with allies while emphasizing the importance of including academia in what should be "public-private-academic partnerships." Recorded on July 2, 2025. ABOUT THE SPEAKERS Amy Zegart is the Morris Arnold and Nona Jean Cox Senior Fellow and the Director of the Technology Policy Accelerator (TPA) at the Hoover Institution. She is also a Professor of Political Science (by courtesy) at Stanford University, and a Senior Fellow at Stanford's Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence Institute and the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies. The author of five books, she specializes in U.S. intelligence, emerging technologies and national security, grand strategy, and global political risk management. Zegart's award-winning research includes the leading academic study of intelligence failures before 9/11: Spying Blind: The CIA, the FBI, and the Origins of 9/11. Her most recent book is the bestseller Spies, Lies, and Algorithms: The History and Future of American Intelligence (Princeton, 2022), which was nominated by Princeton University Press for the Pulitzer Prize. Her op-eds and essays have appeared in Foreign Affairs, Politico, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Wall Street Journal. Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Michael McFaul sit down to discuss the relationship between the United States, China, and Russia, the history of US engagement with Russia, his experience as the United States Ambassador to Russia under President Barack Obama, and the increasing cooperation between China and Russia. McFaul begins by discussing early engagement with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev during the early Obama years, namely the signing of comprehensive multilateral sanctions with Iran, along with his role in crafting the Obama administration’s Russia policy. The two scholars then shift to a conversation about how Russia and China, namely Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping, are attempting to reshape the international order, how the war in Ukraine has already changed this relationship, and whether a “reverse Kissinger” is possible from the perspective of the United States. Recorded on June 3, 2025. ABOUT THE SPEAKERS Michael McFaul is Director at the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies, the Ken Olivier and Angela Nomellini Professor of International Studies in the Department of Political Science, and the Peter and Helen Bing Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. He joined the Stanford faculty in 1995. Dr. McFaul is also an International Affairs Analyst for NBC News and a columnist for The Washington Post. He served for five years in the Obama administration, first as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Russian and Eurasian Affairs at the National Security Council at the White House (2009-2012), and then as U.S. Ambassador to the Russian Federation (2012-2014). He has authored several books, most recently the New York Times bestseller From Cold War to Hot Peace: An American Ambassador in Putin’s Russia. He is currently writing a book called Autocrats versus Democrats: Lessons from the Cold War for Competing with China and Russia Today. He teaches courses on great power relations, democratization, comparative foreign policy decision-making, and revolutions. Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy and Susan Schwab sit down to discuss the current global trade environment and the outlook for US-China trade relations in the aftermath of negotiations in Geneva. The two discuss the magnitude and reaction to President Trump’s “Liberation Day” tariffs, along with the motivations and scale behind the actions. Schwab then explains the dynamics of negotiating within a presidential administration and the importance of understanding the objectives and red lines within those negotiations. The two conclude with an assessment of the US-China trade war, recent developments in the relationship, and what the United States can best do to compete with China in a new era. Economy and Schwab touch on the importance of engaging allies, clearly illustrating the rules China is violating and using a whole-of-government approach to take on the challenge. ABOUT THE SPEAKERS Ambassador Susan Schwab has more than three decades of international trade and policy experience. From 2005-2009, she served as US Trade Representative (USTR) and Deputy USTR in the George W. Bush administration. Ambassador Schwab also sits on several corporate and non-profit boards and is a frequent speaker at associations, corporations, and think tanks. In 2022, she became board chair of the National Foreign Trade Council (NFTC). During her tenure as USTR, Ambassador Schwab successfully opened markets for US products and services in every region of the world and across a variety of business sectors and industries. She concluded the United States’ Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) with Peru, Colombia, and South Korea and launched the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) talks. Ambassador Schwab helped to achieve congressional approval of FTAs with Oman and Peru, as well as the bipartisan “May 10th, 2007” agreement on trade, labor, and the environment. Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs. Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs. ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Gary Rieschel to discuss his two decades-plus working in venture capital in China, his experience starting his own firm, Qiming Venture Partners, in the country, and the evolution of the business and entrepreneurial space in the 21st century. Rieschel illustrates the early challenges in the VC sector, from a lack of infrastructure and difficulty in finding reliable partners to being part of a successful VC landscape that boomed in China during the late 2000s and 2010s. Economy and Rieschel then touch on the involvement of the government in the industry; from the problem with using State Owned Enterprises, how the government issues directives to shape the technology used in the business, and the eventual crackdown on private enterprise in China under Xi Jinping. The two conclude with a discussion of the current landscape of US-China relations and what the United States can best do to compete in a new era. ABOUT THE SPEAKERS Gary Rieschel is the Founding Managing Partner of Qiming Venture Partners, a firm he launched in Shanghai in 2006. Qiming invests in Technology and Consumer (T&C) and Healthcare and has over 100 staffs in China and the U.S. Qiming has $9.5 billion USD in capital raised with many of their portfolio companies being some of today’s most influential firms in their respective sectors. Prior to founding Qiming, Mr. Rieschel was a senior executive at Intel, Sequent Computer, Cisco Systems, and Softbank Corporation. Gary started his VC career by creating Softbank’s U.S. venture group in 1995 (SBVC), and while at Softbank he invested in twelve companies which grew to over $1B USD in market capitalization and served on Softbank’s board of directors. Gary was early in the emergence of venture capital in China, through sponsoring and founding several of China’s early VC firms, including Softbank China Ventures (2000), SAIF Partners (2001), and Ceyuan Ventures (2004), before moving to China to create Qiming. Elizabeth Economy is the Hargrove Senior Fellow and co-director of the Program on the US, China, and the World at the Hoover Institution. From 2021-2023, she took leave from Hoover to serve as the senior advisor for China to the US Secretary of Commerce. Before joining Hoover, she was the C.V. Starr Senior Fellow and director, Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. She is the author of four books on China, including most recently The World According to China (Polity, 2021), and the co-editor of two volumes. She serves on the boards of the National Endowment for Democracy and the National Committee on US-China Relations. She is a member of the Aspen Strategy Group and Council on Foreign Relations and serves as a book reviewer for Foreign Affairs. FOLLOW OUR GUEST ON SOCIAL MEDIA Follow Gary Rieschel on X: @GaryRieschel ABOUT THE SERIES China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Elizabeth Economy sits down with Matthew Turpin to discuss the US strategy towards China and the current state of affairs between the two countries.