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Insights are generated by CastFox AI using publicly available data, episode content, and proprietary models.
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Estimated from 4 chart positions in 4 markets.
By chart position
- 🇪🇸ES · Investing#6310K to 30K
- 🇵🇪PE · Investing#563K to 10K
- 🇮🇩ID · Investing#953K to 10K
- 🇫🇮FI · Investing#189500 to 3K
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Est. listeners per new episode within ~30 days
8.3K to 27K🎙 ~2x weekly·86 episodes·Last published 6d ago - Monthly Reach
Unique listeners across all episodes (30 days)
17K to 53K🇪🇸57%🇵🇪19%🇮🇩19%+1 more - Active Followers
Loyal subscribers who consistently listen
6.6K to 21K
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On the show
From 14 epsHost
Recent guests
Recent episodes
The factory behind your home loan
Jun 18, 2026
26m 50s
How brokerage transfers actually work
Jun 4, 2026
43m 43s
Wrong numbers and why they survive, with Aaron Brown
May 14, 2026
55m 36s
Defendant, Censor, Politico, Spy
May 8, 2026
1h 05m 18s
How the SPLC became financial infrastructure
May 1, 2026
51m 06s
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| Date | Episode | Topics | Guests | Brands | Places | Keywords | Sponsor | Length | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6/18/26 |  The factory behind your home loan | Patrick McKenzie reads from his 2022 Bits About Money essay on mortgages, making the case that a mortgage is best understood as a manufactured product, not a simple loan between a bank and a customer. He walks through the assembly line behind every home loan, the loan officer and back-office staff who build the 700-page document. Then he traces the supply chain it gets sold into, where GSEs insure against non-payment risk, servicers buy the right to collect monthly checks, and pension funds and other private capital end up holding the economic exposure, because they want it more than banks do.–Full transcript available here: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/mortgages/ –Presenting Sponsors: Mercury & Granola Complex Systems is presented by Mercury—radically better banking for founders. Mercury offers the best wire experience anywhere: fast, reliable, and free for domestic U.S. wires, so you can stay focused on growing your business. Apply online in minutes at mercury.com.If meetings consistently leave you with hazy action items and lost context, Granola handles the transcription so you can actually participate and gives you searchable notes afterward. Try it free at granola.ai/complexsystems with code COMPLEXSYSTEMS–Links:Mortgages are a manufactured product: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/mortgages-are-a-manufactured-product/ The 30-Year Mortgage is an Intrinsically Toxic Product: https://byrnehobart.medium.com/the-30-year-mortgage-is-an-intrinsically-toxic-product-200c901746a Michael Lewis’ The Big Short: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Short-Inside-Doomsday-Machine/dp/0393338827 –Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(02:26) Mortgages are a manufactured product(04:19) Who manufactures mortgages?(07:08) Who buys mortgages?(07:42) The risk of non-payment(10:08) Sponsor: Mercury | Granola(14:35) The risk of failing to service a mortgage correctly(17:51) Every other risk you could imagine, of which there are many(24:04) Scratching the tip of the iceberg(25:10) More about flow meters(26:24) Wrap | 26m 50s | ||||||
| 6/4/26 |  How brokerage transfers actually work✨ | brokerage transfersinvestment accounts+3 | — | ACATS | — | brokerageACATS+3 | MercuryCODE | 43m 43s | |
| 5/14/26 |  Wrong numbers and why they survive, with Aaron Brown✨ | bad statisticserror correction+3 | Aaron Brown | NTSBWrong Number | American | statisticsfinancial markets+5 | Mercury | 55m 36s | |
| 5/8/26 |  Defendant, Censor, Politico, Spy✨ | private intelligencecampaign interference+4 | — | Southern Poverty Law Center | — | intelligence agencyterrorism+5 | Mercury | 1h 05m 18s | |
| 5/1/26 |  How the SPLC became financial infrastructure✨ | bank fraudfinancial infrastructure+4 | — | Southern Poverty Law Center | — | bank fraudSPLC+4 | Mercury | 51m 06s | |
| 4/23/26 |  The honey badger of payments✨ | paymentschecks+3 | — | Bits about Money | United States | paymentschecks+7 | Mercury | 29m 46s | |
| 4/16/26 |  Cash received is not revenue earned✨ | revenue recognitionSaaS subscriptions+4 | — | Bits about MoneyAccounting for SaaS and swords | — | revenue recognitionSaaS+5 | Mercury | 33m 10s | |
| 4/9/26 |  Your bank balance isn’t in the bank, and other alchemy✨ | bankingmoney management+4 | — | SVBVoyager+1 | — | bank depositscapital stack+7 | Mercury | 48m 09s | |
| 4/2/26 |  Payroll, pins, and punch cards✨ | public sector payrollsoftware procurement+5 | — | ADP | — | payroll modernizationpublic software procurement+5 | Mercury | 47m 33s | |
| 3/26/26 |  Delve into compliance theatre✨ | complianceSOC 2+4 | — | Delve | — | complianceSOC 2+5 | Mercury | 57m 45s | |
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| 3/19/26 |  Understanding consumer debt collections: the underbelly of finance✨ | consumer debtdebt collection+3 | — | FramerBits about Money | — | debt collectionfinance+3 | MercuryCOMPLEXSYSTE | 45m 32s | |
| 3/12/26 |  Inference engineering and the real-world deployment of LLMs, with Philip Kiely✨ | inference engineeringLLMs+3 | Philip Kiely | Baseten | — | inference stackLLMs+3 | Mercury | 1h 23m 45s | |
| 3/5/26 |  Secrets designed to be divulged and other payment oddities✨ | paymentsfraud+4 | — | Bits about Money | — | paymentsfraud+4 | MercuryCOMPLEXSYSTEMS | 25m 30s | |
| 2/26/26 |  Understanding government procurement, with Luke Farrell✨ | government procurementdigital services+4 | Luke Farrell | IRSChoice Financial Group+1 | — | government procurementdigital services+5 | MercuryCODE | 1h 21m 47s | |
| 2/12/26 |  APIs of evil: studying fraud as infrastructure✨ | fraudbusiness process+3 | — | Choice Financial GroupColumn N.A.+1 | — | fraudinfrastructure+3 | Mercury | 51m 21s | |
| 2/5/26 |  Why check cashing businesses exist | Patrick McKenzie (patio11) reads an essay about the business of check cashing, a misunderstood industry. He explains why cashing a check is actually a "new credit extension" where the bank bets on both the writer and the payee, and why profit-maximizing institutions often decline to bank individuals who represent even a "material risk" of a single bounced check. From the manual "rituals" of endorsement to the way fintechs like Ingo Money and Cash App use persistent identity to narrow the risk envelope, Patrick examines the technical and social reasons why some people pay to access their own wages, others don’t, and whether we can do anything about that.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/check-cashing/–Presenting Sponsor: Mercury Complex Systems is presented by Mercury—radically better banking for founders. Mercury offers the best wire experience anywhere: fast, reliable, and free for domestic U.S. wires, so you can stay focused on growing your business. Apply online in minutes at mercury.com.Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC.–Links:Bits about Money: www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/the-business-of-check-cashing/ –Timestamps:(0:00) Introduction(2:15) Check cashing(2:57) An oversimplified explanation of check presentment(5:48) Depositing a check requires an extension of credit(10:47) How cashing a check works if you're not banked(12:16) A brief aside about endorsement(14:39) Many people hate check cashing and everything about it(17:06) The internal logic behind that pricing grid(19:59) Sponsor: Mercury(21:36) The internal logic behind that pricing grid (continued)(23:10) Persistent identities as a KYC possibility(25:12) A brief discussion about class distinctions in America(30:45) Check cashing on phones(34:28) Outro | 38m 25s | ||||||
| 1/29/26 |  Claude Code makes several thousand dollars in 30 minutes, with Patrick McKenzie | Patrick McKenzie (patio11) walks through a coding session with Claude Code to demonstrate what the fuss is about. The business problem: recovering failed subscription payments that required coordinating APIs across Stripe, Ghost, and email providers, and the surprising experience of watching Claude read documentation, resolve dependency conflicts, and make sensible security choices. The episode offers a pedantic level of detail on why the sharpest technologists use words like “fundamentally transformed” to describe the impact of LLMs on coding.–Full annotated transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/claude-code/–Sponsor: FramerBuilding and maintaining marketing websites shouldn’t slow down your engineers. Framer gives design and marketing teams an all-in-one platform to ship landing pages, microsites, or full site redesigns instantly—without engineering bottlenecks. Get 30% off Framer Pro at framer.com/complexsystems.–Links:Odd Lots episode with Noah Brier: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2fd3hvYmplEnQzxYZaxPg3?si=ylFxFe3HQ4uivH29uqC_rABits about Money: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/ –Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(02:21) All engineering work happens in a business context(03:47) Payment failures briefly taxonomized(08:25) Now follows a conversation with Claude Code(20:37) Sponsor: Framer(21:53) Conversation with Claude Code (continued)(39:07) My final thoughts on this(41:15) Wrap | 40m 34s | ||||||
| 1/22/26 |  We should stop burning pharma trials’ lab notes, with Ruxandra Teslo | Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Ruxandra Teslo to discuss why drug development keeps getting more expensive despite revolutionary new treatment modalities from GLP-1 agonists to gene therapies. They discuss Eroom’s Law (Moore’s Law in reverse) and Ruxandra's Common Technical Document Project, which aims to build the "Stack Overflow of clinical development" by making regulatory submissions publicly accessible. This will fill a present hole in the education of researchers, lower barriers for small biotechs, and accelerate drug discovery.–Full transcript available here: https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/ruxandra-teslo/ –Sponsor: FramerBuilding and maintaining marketing websites shouldn’t slow down your engineers. Framer gives design and marketing teams an all-in-one platform to ship landing pages, microsites, or full site redesigns instantly—without engineering bottlenecks. Get 30% off Framer Pro at framer.com/complexsystems.–Links:Eroom's Law (original paper): https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd3681Ruxandra’s writing: https://www.writingruxandrabio.com/ Ross Rheingans-Yoo on drug development: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4GiO0KYqxJNCIdltCyhN6m?si=2znQniZ3RXKuX8keNcwWtw Ben Reinhardt on science and development: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0GHegWgLSubYxvATmbWhQu?si=pVCJVITYTqaq65BiST2d0Q–Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(00:56) Challenges in biopharma productivity(03:12) Understanding clinical development(04:59) The role of basic science in drug development(07:39) Clinical development process explained(09:25) Issues in clinical trials and development(19:33) The role of information in clinical trials(20:30) Sponsor: Framer(21:42) The role of information in clinical trials (continued)(32:55) Proposed solutions for clinical development(40:31) Consultant opinions and regulatory documents(41:28) Streamlining the regulatory process(43:06) Understanding FDA interactions(45:35) Building a public library of regulatory documents(48:18) Encouraging novel approaches in biotech(50:06) Addressing risk aversion in the industry(51:52) Analyzing FDA consistency and reviewer heterogeneity(01:02:15) The importance of courage in professional growth(01:06:39) Supporting young professionals and catalyzing change(01:16:14) Wrap | 1h 17m 21s | ||||||
| 1/15/26 |  Your support rep is also trapped in this call, with Des Traynor of Intercom | Patrick McKenzie (patio11) sits down with Intercom co-founder Des Traynor to examine customer support through the lens of Conway's Law, Goodhart's Law, and several decades of accumulated organizational scar tissue. They discuss how AI agents are democratizing white-glove service, why modern LLMs have retrained user expectations around “chatbots” very quickly, and the surprisingly liberating effect of talking to something that will never judge you for missing a loan payment.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/des-traynor/–Sponsor: MongoDB Tired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale? MongoDB is the database built for developers, by developers: ACID compliant, Enterprise-ready, and fluent in AI. Start building faster at mongodb.com/build–Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(00:29) Intercom and its evolution(00:51) Challenges in customer service systems(02:54) Scaling customer support in startups(04:53) Organizational inefficiencies and customer experience(06:53) Metrics and their impact on customer support(12:40) Human capital issues in customer support(15:53) AI's role in customer support(17:01) Future of customer support roles(20:09) Sponsor: MongoDB(20:53) Future of customer support roles (continued)(26:19) AI and customer interaction(26:55) The myth of artisanal customer support(27:45) Fin Guidance: Evolution and user behavior(29:10) Fin's impact on customer support efficiency(33:30) Expanding Fin's capabilities beyond support(42:50) AI in government and other sectors(49:20) The future of AI connectivity and integration | 53m 44s | ||||||
| 1/8/26 |  The magic spell that makes banks give you your money back | Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) reads his latest Bits about Money essay explaining why he “loves Regulation E more than any rational person does.” He explains how Reg E created a privately-administered legal system processing over 100 million complaints annually—dwarfing the formal U.S. court system—and why banks are now trying to avoid these obligations for Zelle's nine figure fraud problem.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/the-magic-spell-reg-e/– Sponsors: MongoDB & FramerTired of database limitations and architectures that break when you scale? MongoDB is the database built for developers, by developers: ACID compliant, Enterprise-ready, and fluent in AI. Start building faster at mongodb.com/build Building and maintaining marketing websites shouldn’t slow down your engineers. Framer gives design and marketing teams an all-in-one platform to ship landing pages, microsites, or full site redesigns instantly—without engineering bottlenecks. Get 30% off Framer Pro at framer.com/complexsystems.–Links:Bits about Money, One Regulation E, Two Very Different RegimesFull version of "Doesn't Matter, That's Reg E": https://suno.com/song/173bbd67-92f7-4868-930f-efeca4b373c0–Timestamps:(00:00) Introduction(02:46) These newfangled computers might steal our money(12:45) The contractual liability waterfall in card payments(20:35) Sponsors: MongoDB and Framer(22:23) The contractual liability waterfall in card payments (continued)(23:47) Enter Zelle(25:46) Zelle is an enormous fraud target(32:23) Banks may attempt to extend the Zelle precedent(35:02) Reg E encompasses almost every technology which exists and many which don't yet | 37m 18s | ||||||
| 1/3/26 |  2025 in review, with Sammy Cottrell | Our annual year-in-review episode covers some recurring themes from 2025 and some behind-the-curtains discussion of running a podcast. Patrick McKenzie (patio11) sits down with producer Sammy Cottrell to discuss the most popular episodes of the year, the impact of AI coding tools, the challenges of video podcasting, Sammy's role as a "fixer" finding guests, and much more.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/2025-in-review-with-sammy-cottrell/–Sponsor:Framer is a design and publishing platform that collapses the toolchain between wireframes and production-ready websites. Design, iterate, and publish in one workspace. Start free at framer.com/design with code COMPLEXSYSTEMS for a free month of Framer Pro.–Timestamps:(00:00) Introduction(01:38) Launching video podcasts this year(02:52) AI ethics and risk discussions(04:29) Supporting LessWrong and LightHaven(07:24) Adventures in AI-assisted hobbies(12:38) Most popular episodes of the year(19:45) Sponsor: Framer(20:52) Popular episodes (continued)(29:06) Setting up a podcast studio at Lighthaven(32:31) Internal company podcasts(38:03) Year in review and investigative journalism(43:02) Creating Isekai(49:13) Wrap | 49m 32s | ||||||
| 12/26/25 |  Gift cards and the fraud supply chain | For this week's holiday-inspired Complex Systems, Patrick reads his essay from Bits about Money on the gift card paradox: a legitimate payments rail, yet also a primary vector for fraud that leaves victims without recourse.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/gift-cards-and-the-fraud-supply-chain/–Sponsors: Givewell & Framer Support proven charities that deliver measurable results and learn how to maximize your charitable impact with GiveWell. Go to givewell.org, pick “Podcast” and enter Complex Systems at checkout.Framer is a design and publishing platform that collapses the toolchain between wireframes and production-ready websites. Design, iterate, and publish in one workspace. Start free at framer.com/design with code COMPLEXSYSTEMS for a free month of Framer Pro.–Links:Bits about Money, Gift cards accountability sink https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/gift-card-accountability-sink/Global China Puise, Moving Bricks https://globalchinapulse.net/moving-bricks-money-laundering-practices-in-the-online-scam-industry/ –Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(04:02) Most businesses do not run their own gift card programs(06:40) Sponsors: Givewell and Framer(09:00) Most businesses do not run their own gift card programs (part 2)(10:27) Gift cards are not regulated like other electronic payments instruments(12:07) Why do we choose this difference in regulation? | 13m 47s | ||||||
| 12/11/25 |  Understanding perpetual futures | In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (patio11) walks through how perpetual futures work, from funding rates to liquidations to the surprise of automatic deleveraging. Perps are the dominant trading mechanism in crypto (6-8X larger than spot volume) and exist primarily to let exchanges and market makers run casinos more capital-efficiently. He explains why this intellectually interesting innovation probably won't escape crypto, despite what crypto enthusiasts might expect.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/understanding-perpetual-futures/–Sponsor: Framer is a design and publishing platform that collapses the toolchain between wireframes and production-ready websites. Design, iterate, and publish in one workspace. Start free at framer.com/design with code COMPLEXSYSTEMS for a free month of Framer Pro.–Links:Bits about Money, Perpetual futures, explained www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/perpetual-futures-explained/ –Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(02:36) Beginning with the problem(06:49) Perps predate crypto but found a home there(08:19) Multiple settlements a day(10:30) Convergence in prices via the basis trade(13:44) Sponsor: Framer(15:11) Leverage and liquidations(18:46) We have altered the terms of your unregulated futures investment contract(21:50) An aside about liquidations(25:14) Will crypto successfully "export" perps | 24m 54s | ||||||
| 12/4/25 |  The economics of discovery, with Ben Reinhardt | In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Ben Reinhardt, founder of Speculative Technologies, to examine how science gets funded in the United States and why the current system leaves much to be desired. They dissect the outdated taxonomy of basic, applied, and development research, categories encoded into law that fail to capture how actual breakthrough science happens.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/the-economics-of-discovery-with-ben-reinhardt/–Sponsors: GiveWell & FramerSupport proven charities that deliver measurable results and learn how to maximize your charitable impact with GiveWell. First-time donors can go to givewell.org, pick “Podcast” and enter COMPLEXSYSTEMS at checkout to get $100 matched.Framer is a design and publishing platform that collapses the toolchain between wireframes and production-ready websites. Design, iterate, and publish in one workspace. Start free at framer.com/design with code COMPLEXSYSTEMS for a free month of Framer Pro.– Links:Speculative Technologies: https://spec.tech Ben Reinhardt's website: https://benjaminreinhardt.com Bits About Money: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/ –Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(00:26) Understanding focused research organizations (FROs)(01:52) The evolution of science funding(03:59) Taxonomy of research: basic, applied, and development(06:14) Challenges in science funding and research(08:12) The role of process knowledge in research(18:52) The bureaucracy of tech transfer offices(20:00) Sponsors: GiveWell & Framer(22:33) Critique of tech transfer offices(25:20) The burden of bureaucracy on researchers(44:34) Emerging solutions and optimism in research(46:58) Wrap | 45m 15s | ||||||
| 11/20/25 |  Understanding equity at tech companies, with Billy Gallagher of Prospect | Why do billions of dollars of stock trade hands based on napkin math and vibes? Billy Gallagher, CEO of Prospect and former Rippling employee, joins Patrick McKenzie (patio11) to walk through the information asymmetry that costs less-sophisticated employees massive amounts of money. From understanding when to early exercise options to navigating 83B elections and tender offers, they discuss the critical decisions that have a shot clock ticking the day you sign your offer letter.–Full transcript available here: www.complexsystemspodcast.com/understanding-equity-at-tech-companies/–Sponsor: Framer is a design and publishing platform that collapses the toolchain between wireframes and production-ready websites. Design, iterate, and publish in one workspace. Start free at framer.com/design with code COMPLEXSYSTEMS for a free month of Framer Pro.–Links:Prospect: www.joinprospect.com/–Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(00:44) Billy's professional journey(01:07) Equity management challenges(02:29) The importance of equity compensation(04:53) Equity grant structures in startups(06:09) Understanding vesting terms(07:09) The value of equity over time(08:48) The myth of options as lottery tickets(11:23) Career tailwinds from startup experience(14:25) Breaking into the tech industry(15:16) The role of equity in compensation(17:49) Employee equity plans and dilution(19:59) Sponsor: Framer(21:06) Stock options vs. RSUs(21:55) The decision to exercise options(27:11) Tax implications of exercising options(33:03) The role of HR in equity management(36:14) Bootleg spreadsheets and vibes-based investing(38:09) Navigating tax complexities in different scenarios(41:31) The importance of extended exercise windows(44:18) Challenges with tax residency and remote work(49:43) The role of accountants in managing equity(53:41) Understanding the 83(b) election and QSBS(01:01:03) Tender offers and secondary sales(01:08:38) Strategies for exercising and selling options(01:12:28) Navigating financial decisions in startups(01:16:59) Wrap | 1h 17m 38s | ||||||
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Chart Positions
4 placements across 4 markets.
Chart Positions
4 placements across 4 markets.