Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind - The Julian Jaynes Society Podcast

Compared to Other Scientific Ideas, Jaynesian Psychology Isn’t So Farfetched — But How Confident Can We Be that Jaynes Is Right?By Brian J. McVeighProduced by Marcel Kuijsten. Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).We accept as fact the magical transformation of species (Darwinian evolution), the warping of spatiotemporal fabric (Einsteinian astrophysics), and the superposition of particles and “spooky action at a distance” (quantum mechanics). So surely, one would think, acknowledging the cultural roots of consciousness and that supernatural visitations and visions (hallucinations) governed societies seems rather tame. Compared to other well-established scientific ideas, Jaynes’s arguments do not seem so implausible. But many of us still find his ideas unpersuasive. Indeed, while we are comfortable with the way the hard sciences defy our commonsensical assumptions about the how the natural world works, when it comes to consciousness, we feel uncomfortably challenged if confronted by something as so supposedly radical as Jaynesian psychology. It seems we are all “experts,” convinced that our own views must accurately describe something so personal, immediate, and “obvious” as subjective introspectable self-awareness.Read the complete text from this episode:https://www.julianjaynes.org/2023/12/13/compared-to-other-scientific-ideas-jaynesian-psychology-isnt-so-farfetched/Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

The Invention of the Mind: Julian Jaynes's Ideas on Consciousness and the SelfLet's start with a question that sounds, well, it sounds super simple: "Where do our dreams come from?" I mean, for us, right now, the answer feels totally obvious -- almost instinctual. Our dreams, are feelings -- all that stuff -- it comes from that private universe inside our own heads. This quote from the Romantic era just nails it. Our inner life, that personal passion, it's not just a part of who we are, it feels like the whole point of our existence. So, let's start right there -- let's dive into this private universe we all seem to have -- the modern inner world...Produced by Marcel Kuijsten using generative AI tools and reviewed by human editors for accuracy and clarity.Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Read our latest book, "Conversations on Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind":https://www.julianjaynes.org/book/conversations-on-consciousness-and-the-bicameral-mind/Contents:00:00 - Introduction0:30 - Our Private Universe01:12 - An Ancient Dream Book03:12 - A Different Mind04:41 - Divine Message to Self05:47 - The Birth of 'Me'

The God-Shaped Hole in Your Mind: Julian Jaynes’s Groundbreaking Ideas on Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind Explained in Just 16 MinutesWhat if human consciousness, as we know it, is a recent invention? In this fast-paced 16-minute presentation, we explore the revolutionary theory of psychologist Julian Jaynes — a mind-bending journey into the origins of thought, the voices of ancient gods, and the breakdown of the “bicameral mind.” Whether you’re new to Jaynes’s work or revisiting his ideas with fresh eyes, you’ll leave with a new perspective on what it means to be conscious — and why that might not be as timeless as we think.Produced by Marcel Kuijsten.Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.Read our latest book, "Conversations on Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind":https://www.julianjaynes.org/book/conversations-on-consciousness-and-the-bicameral-mind/

Conversations on Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind: A Deep Dive Book DiscussionA deep dive discussion delving into the book "Conversations on Consciousness and the Bicameral Mind: Interviews with Leading Thinkers on Julian Jaynes's Theory."This book is highly recommended for those new to Julian Jaynes and long time Jaynes enthusiasts alike:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1737305534/Introduction read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Contents:00:00 - Introduction03:12 - Resistance to New Ideas03:52 - Defining Consciousness09:40 - Consciousness and Language Part 113:38 - When Consciousness Developed16:39 - Comparing the Iliad and the Odyssey18:30 - The Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind19:35 - Vestiges of Bicameral Mentality19:59 - Hearing Voices24:02 - The Feeling of a Sensed Presence25:18 - Hypnosis27:58 - Creative Inspiration28:40 - The Evolution of Religion30:28 - Spirit Possession30:54 - Cave Art31:25 - Seeking External Authorization32:18 - Consciousness and Language Part 235:55 - Jaynes's Neurological Model41:17 - Implications of the Theory45:20 - The Future of Consciousness47:00 - Concluding Remarks

Consciousness and Dreams By Marcel Kuijsten“In The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, Julian Jaynes discusses a variety of forms of evidence for the transition from a bicameral mentality to consciousness. The study of dreams provides another window through which to examine this transition. By extension, historical changes in the nature of dreams support the idea that consciousness is in a learned process based on language and not biologically innate. There is a common assumption that the nature of dreams has been consistent throughout recorded history, yet this is not the case. If we analyze the first recorded accounts of dreams and compare these accounts with modern dreams, we see a stark contrast. …”This essay originally appeared in The Jaynesian, Marcel Kuijsten & Brian J. McVeigh (eds.), Winter 2010, Volume 4, Issue 1.Produced by Marcel Kuijsten. Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Falling between the Cracks: Julian Jaynes’s Defiance of Scholarly Conventions Challenged Cherished Methodological Assumptions — This Is What Makes Him Hard to AppreciateBy Brian J. McVeighProduced by Marcel Kuijsten. Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).Academics make progress when they are inspired by the cross-pollination of ideas, and most researchers, arguably, utilize a multi-disciplinary approach to some degree, i.e., no piece of research fits perfectly into one scholarly field. Much of the academic landscape can be described as combinatory endeavors — social psychology, psychological anthropology, psychology of religion, neuropsychology, neurotheology, etc., to name just a few. Cross-fertilization is a wonderful and much-needed antidote to specialization, subspecialization, sub-subspecialization, etc. ...Read the complete text from this episode:https://www.julianjaynes.org/2022/12/05/falling-between-the-cracks-jayness-defiance-of-scholarly-conventions/Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

A Resurgence of Julian Jaynes’ Theory of ConsciousnessBy Peter SellickProduced by Marcel Kuijsten. Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).Adam Mars-Jones begins his review of Alvaro Enrigue’s “You Dreamed of Empires” (London Review of Books, Volume 46, Number 10) with the following:“Culture shock​ seems too mild a phrase to describe the arrival of Europeans in South and Central America. In his 1976 maverick classic, The Origin of consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (its category speculative neurohistory, at a guess), Julian Jaynes proposes that, at the time Pizarro and his men reached them, the Inca didn’t have full mental autonomy but only ‘protosubjectivity’. They functioned largely by a sort of automatism, acting according to unchanging patterns and ritual clues, able to absorb only slight disruptions to their routines, so that this was less a clash of civilisations than of mental structures.”This sent me scrambling for my old copy of Jaynes’ monumental book that I read in the late 80s.Read the complete text from this episode:https://www.julianjaynes.org/2024/08/16/a-resurgence-of-julian-jaynes-theory-of-consciousness/Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

The Need to Acknowledge Bicameral Vestiges: Jaynesian Psychology Finds Support not just from the Ancient WorldBy Brian J. McVeighProduced by Marcel Kuijsten. Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).This post is inspired by a recent exchange I had with a commentator who saw little value in relying on biblical accounts as evidence to support Jaynes’s theories because they were “fairytales.” Presumably such a criticism could be extended to other writings that constitute humanity’s extensive religious tradition. It is worth responding to this line of critique because it is not an uncommon reaction from those who find fault with Jaynes (and for what it’s worth, Jaynes did not set out to explain the origins of religion; his research was on the origin of consciousness).Read the complete text from this episode:https://www.julianjaynes.org/2022/04/26/the-need-to-acknowledge-bicameral-vestiges/Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Consciousness, Cognition, and Free Will: A Jaynesian PerspectiveAn Interview by Vinay Kolhatkar with Julian Jaynes Society Founder and Executive Director Marcel Kuijsten.Marcel Kuijsten discusses the uniquely human consciousness from a Jaynesian perspective with the show's host, Vinay Kolhatkar. Also covered are free will and cognition, the cognitive explosion of Ancient Greece, pre-conceptual ancient cultures prevalent today, the human disposition to obeying authorial voices, and the enormous canvas for future research.Courtesy of the Savvy Street Show (https://www.thesavvystreet.com/).Watch the video here: https://youtu.be/tAE5WL5XvDQLearn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Has Human Mentality Changed?Part 2: Cognitive Relativism and Jaynesian PsychologyBy Brian J. McVeighProduced by Marcel Kuijsten. Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).In Part 1 of “Has Human Mentality Changed?” I discussed how the contributions of Julian Jaynes bolster a radical neuroplastic understanding of the mind, especially if the crucial role of the cultural acquisitions of adaptive cognitive capabilities are incorporated into the analysis of historical changes in psychology, i.e., a neurocultural perspective. Here I want to explore some of the implications of psychic diversity. Three different perspectives illustrate well the significance of psychic plasticity. Though my present discussion is about psychic plasticity as an enculturating (extra-genetic) process, neurophysiological changes cannot be ignored (thus, “neurocultural”).Read the complete text from this episode:https://www.julianjaynes.org/blog/julian-jaynes-theory/has-human-mentality-changed-part-2/Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Putting Julian Jaynes’s Theory to the TestJaynes’s Theorizings, Like All Great Systems of Thought, Require Hypotheses-testing and Experimentation to Be SubstantiatedBy Brian J. McVeighProduced by Marcel Kuijsten. Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠).It is easy to forget that the Newtonian, Darwinian, and Einsteinian intellectual edifices were built over many years, painstakingly solidified brick by brick through batteries of well-designed experiments and careful analyses. Science is the sturdy house that such patient construction continually erects.Consider the work of Julian Jaynes. Over the years I have heard many dismissively say “it’s an interesting theory but it can’t be proven.” Such remarks demonstrate a misunderstanding of the nature of scientific progress as well as what is needed to come to terms with Jaynesian theorizing. The contributions of Jaynes constitute an entire paradigm that reaches far beyond psychology. It is a constellation of bold, innovative ideas with far-ranging implications and great breadth that sheds new light on neurology, history, religious studies, psychotherapeutics, archaeology, linguistics, philosophy, literature, and other arts. So what is needed, then, is a breaking down of Jaynes’s core theories into numerous propositions, postulations, and hypotheses appropriate to different disciplines and fields of expertise. That way his claims can be systematically tested. That is a tall order and demands the contributions of a legion of specialists.Read the complete text from this episode:https://www.julianjaynes.org/blog/julian-jaynes-theory/putting-julian-jaynes-theory-to-the-test/Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Conscious Interiority Is a Constellation of ProcessesBut Attention-grabbing Headlines in the Scientific Literature Mistakenly Suggest that Consciousness is an All-purpose Psychological StuffBy Brian J. McVeighProduced by Marcel Kuijsten. Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠⁠⁠).Pretend you’re from another dimension and unfamiliar with cars, planes, trains, and ships. But you quickly notice what they share in common: Motion. You’re interested in discovering exactly how these contraptions work and decide that to understand them you need to investigate motion-ness. So you begin to take them apart, piece by piece, looking for the essence of movement. However, try as you might, you can’t discover the mysterious potency animating the operation of going from point A to point B. But you’re absolutely convinced that motion-ness must exist somewhere in or around anything imbued with the power of mobility. Read the complete text from this episode:https://www.julianjaynes.org/blog/julian-jaynes-theory/conscious-interiority-is-a-constellation-of-processes/Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

A Relay-Race Model of Conscious InteriorityA Cultural Invention, Consciousness Needs to Be Relearned with Each GenerationBy Brian J. McVeighProduced by Marcel Kuijsten. Read by Michael R. Jacobs (⁠⁠www.theungoogleable.com⁠⁠, ⁠⁠www.youtube.com/@VoidDenizen⁠⁠).The word “consciousness” usually evokes something neuroanatomical, intimately bound up with perceptual experiences, an evolutionary psychological feature from our very distant past that is inherent to the brain itself. Consciousness for many seems to be a general term for any type of sensory, conceptual, or thinking process. This leads to muddled theorizing.Read the complete text from this episode:https://www.julianjaynes.org/blog/julian-jaynes-theory/a-relay-race-model-of-conscious-interiority/Learn more about Julian Jaynes's theory or become a member by visiting the Julian Jaynes Society at ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.julianjaynes.org⁠⁠⁠⁠.