Ep 118 - What If "Normal" Is Actually the Problem? with MaryAnne McKibben Dana

Ep 118 - What If "Normal" Is Actually the Problem? with MaryAnne McKibben Dana

From Created Creative Podcast by Ruth Hetland and Dawn Trautman

February 23, 2026 · 34 min · Season 1 · Episode 118

About this episode

Dawn and Ruth discuss cultural norms and neurodivergence with guest MaryAnne McKibben Dana, exploring the idea that 'normal' may be the problem.

Dawn and Ruth start this one with Ash Wednesday updates and a wild circus reinvention Dawn attended (no animals, robotic performers, no ringmaster, just pure light-show magic). The circus becomes the perfect metaphor for what happens when you throw out the old playbook and create something entirely new. Enter MaryAnne McKibben Dana: Presbyterian pastor in Northern Virginia, writer, leadership coach, and author whose fourth book Better Than Normal drops April 14, 2026. MaryAnne's been living the "yes, and" improv principle for years (she literally wrote a book called God, Improv, and the Art of Living), and now she's taking it to the next level. Here's her thesis: What if most of our struggles aren't internal deficits but external cultural mismatches? What if "norm culture" is the problem? MaryAnne knows this from raising three neurodivergent kids through mental health challenges and watching how the world tries to squeeze them into boxes that don't fit. Better Than Normal argues for discarding the idea of a default human standard altogether. We're talking neurodivergence, race, immigration status, LGBTQ identity: all the ways humans actually exist versus how we pretend they…

People in this episode

Hosts: Ruth Hetland, Dawn Trautman

Guest: MaryAnne McKibben Dana

Topics covered

  • neurodivergence
  • cultural mismatches
  • improv principles
  • mental health
  • questioning norms
  • diversity and inclusion

Keywords

  • neurodivergent
  • cultural norms
  • mental health challenges
  • improv
  • diversity
  • work week
  • education

Mentioned in this episode

Books & works: Better Than Normal, God, Improv, and the Art of Living

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