Dental A Team Podcast

Did you know there's actually a right and wrong time to implement key practice indicators (or KPIs) in your office? Tiff and Dana reveal what should be firmly in place in a practice before you start assigning metrics for success. They touch on KPIs position by position, staying human amid the numbers, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello Dental A Team listeners. I am so excited to be here with you today. You guys know that I love podcasting. You guys know that I love spending this time with you. And I love getting to spend the time with my consultant team as well. So I have Dana here with us today. Dana, how are you? DAT-Dana (00:16) doing pretty good. I'm excited to be here. It's not that often that I get get dedicated podcast time with Tiff, so super excited. The Dental A Team (00:22) I know, I know it's because I schedule us long and we bust out a ton and then we don't see each other for a month on podcasting at least. So I agree, I agree. Well, Dina, it's springtime here. We like to call it springtime, which I think that Arizona just doesn't know when spring starts and ends because it goes straight into summer. So realistically, these drop in May, recording in April. I don't know when spring is, but it's hot. We've had a little bit of a cool down. You've had a ton of sports and it's a beautiful time of year. How's everything down in your neck of the woods of Arizona going? DAT-Dana (01:00) It's good. It is. It's beautiful. Now is the time where like you just love being in Arizona. I feel like, we don't really get a spring. It's kind of like a mismatch of random weather, like week by week. But now is the time where I truly love being in Arizona and get to be outside a ton. And, you know, if we could just get this wind to go away that's been hanging around down here for a couple of weeks, it would be perfect, really. The Dental A Team (01:05) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, my sister and I were talking about the wind yesterday. It really has been very strong, very strong. Yeah, especially where you are. You guys get whipped real bad with some wind. Yeah. Well, I'm excited that we're here today, that we're inside. It's supposed to warm up again. I think cool down. Who knows? It's going to rain. Maybe you might get rain. I probably won't. It's going to be great. It's going to be great. DAT-Dana (01:35) Yeah. Yeah. The Dental A Team (01:48) I wanted to chat today, something that keeps coming up for me on client calls, especially for new clients that come in. know that Nikki and Pam and Trish, you and I are pretty tapped out. So we're not getting a ton of new clients, but I know Nikki, Pam and Trish bring ⁓ oftentimes to our co-labs, really doctors looking for how to speak numbers and how to speak KPIs. We get it a lot. get people asking, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. That is our email address and we have people that that pop in all the time on really how do we get our team to love doing KPIs and love watching them and kind of a leadership team standpoint, how do we do that? So I thought it would be interesting to chat a little bit today on the flip side of KPIs. And Dana, think we have an interesting perspective. Number one, we say this all the time that we, anything that we train, we try to duplicate in our own company. We try to create that space here. So we do a leadership. a ton in our company. We train on leadership a ton. That's kind of like our year two process for clients coming in. We work a ton on systems year two, ⁓ or if systems aren't done yet, might be year three, but we really hone in on leadership a ton once practices get kind of the baseline groundwork done. So with that said, would say Dana, number one, I'd want to look at how far are we in our practice? Like, are we to the point now that we've that KPIs, they matter or that they make sense, right? Because you've probably seen it and I've definitely implemented too early KPIs with Teams too. So finding that perfect timing and then obviously there's other aspects to it. But Dana, how do you feel about that? And what are you seeing with your clients you've worked with for many years, many of your clients? So when do you kind of see that KPI leadership standpoint roll in? DAT-Dana (03:40) Yeah, I agree with you, Tim. do think it is like practices when you are building systems to like to add KPIs on top of that when it's like we don't even really know what we're doing to kind of get to these points. ⁓ I do feel like that's a little bit too early to kind of roll out KPIs. I think like when you have your systems in place, when you have job descriptions in place and when you really feel like you have a team that kind of knows what they're doing and knows where the business is headed, I think that is the time to really start to implement KPIs. The Dental A Team (04:11) I agree. And I think what that really boils down to and what you just described is the basics for so mission, vision, core values, job descriptions, and then looking at like the basic KPIs, even new practice KPIs, but getting a team to like love doing their own KPIs per position is that next step. So those practice KPIs, like you're saying, Dana, those are the ones that are going to tell us if the systems that we're doing are benefiting the practice. Are they creating the results that we want? So production collections, new patients, maybe marketing RLI, but really narrowing it down and simplifying it so that they can start to see those to-dos, those things that they're doing every single day that are in line with their job description, they're adding value to those KPIs and then kind of taking a step back and layering it. I know when I look at KPIs and I look at our KPIs in our company, I really try to look at, what is like What do they mean? How do they apply to my position and to your position or marketing's position? Does it make sense for that KPI to be attached to that person or that department? And then ultimately, what's the impact that it's making on the overall results, right? What is the company going for? And Dana, how do you help reverse engineer that? Because I watched you do that with a lot of practices. Dana's like, Amazing. She's so good at pulling out meaningful, impactful KPIs per position. And I think your hygiene experience helps you to see those spaces because those back office ones are really the hardest. So how do you help practices reverse engineer that? How can they take a look at that today just from maybe from like an overarching big standpoint? And then we'll narrow in. DAT-Dana (05:59) Yeah, sure. So I think it really comes down to just like you said, Tiff, making it meaningful, making them see that the things that they are doing every single day, we spent times building the system, we created these systems. So let us have an easy tool for you to know that if the input that you are giving every single day is getting you a certain result. And so I think that I love that you use the word meaningful because I feel like that we get asked all the time, like, how do I have motivate my team to care about numbers? How do I, you have to make them meaningful for them, meaningful for their position, meaningful for their impact that they are putting into the practice and into patients. And so I think that that is, I think that's kind of where the magic happens. It's like, you've got these overarching goals. So then breaking them down into, let's say, quarterly goals. And then what can each team member do daily, weekly, monthly to help impact or move those quarterly pieces. So I think it is chunking it down, but, to the point where team members feel like they actually, like the things that they're doing impact them. And I think when you can make those connections, we can say, hey, you've got to keep the schedule full. Well, what does full mean? Right? What do, what does full mean that like I am winning that day or I am hitting that goal or I am like being super impactful. And sometimes too, it's just relating it to. Yes, these are numbers, but at end of the day, typically numbers equal patients, right? Typically numbers equal impact into the community. Typically, like it means how much we're improving the overall oral health of the patients that leave the practice. And sometimes when you can tie that like, yes, you filling the schedule equals that or yes, you hitting your period goal equals comprehensive care. When you can link those things with team members, that's how you motivate them. That's how you make these numbers meaningful to just say, hey, I need you to hit 95 % of schedule to goal, right? Well, yeah, that's a number, but what does it mean for that person? What is the impact it does for the practice when they hit it? And like taking time too to celebrate it when we see it. The Dental A Team (08:02) Yeah. And something that that changes for us, Dana, that dentistry has always in my opinion been like a just do it because we said to do it, right? You build the same way we've built since 1995 because that's how we do it. Right. And we've not, we're super innovative when it comes to photos and CBCT scans and tech and all of these cool things that the back office is using. So doctors and dental assistants are like, heck yeah, this is so cool. Dentistry moves so fast. But then the rest of the team is like, Does it? Like I'm still doing, I'm still scanning papers. Yeah. Like what the heck? It's not, it doesn't innovate in the other areas. I think now with AI, we're seeing a lot of innovation and I think a lot of front office team members are probably like, Whoa, I'm not okay with this because that's never been dentistry from the front office standpoint. So my point in that is when we have a KPI and when you were speaking, I'm thinking like make five calls a day, make 10 calls a day. Why? DAT-Dana (08:34) Still confirming. The Dental A Team (09:02) Why am I making 10 calls a day? Because my ultimate goal is that the schedule is full to 95%. So then tracking a KPI of how many calls am I making? So what's the impact that I'm making towards that goal? And then I think, Dana, what you made me think of is really being able to take a step back and saying, is that thing that I'm doing impacting the goal? Because I don't want to just make 10 calls because you told me to make 10 calls. I want to make 10 calls because it's positively impacting my overarching goal of 95 % scheduleful and that's positively impacting the impact we're having on the community. And so when it rolls up that way and it doesn't feel like they just like do this because I told you to do it, I don't think we work that way anymore. I think in the 90s, 2000s, we did. When I first got into the workforce, I was like, just tell me what to do. I'll just do whatever you, just give me a list, I'll check it off. But I think as we evolved as humans, as dentistry is evolving, and now as there's more innovation coming to all aspects of dentistry, we're in a space now where we really have to know, why am I doing this thing? What is it for? Because I don't want to work for nothing as in money. I don't want to work for nothing. I don't want to do this if it's not helpful. I want to change it and do something different. And I think, Dana, in my opinion, you know, the practices that I'm seeing in the forums that I'm seeing, I think there's a big wave of that mindset that really wants to know the impact. DAT-Dana (10:28) I agree with you. think that like technology is great, but I think some a side effect of technology is it's made us a little bit skeptical, right? So we ask more questions than we have before. think that we do, we want to know why we want to know like all those background pieces. And I think too, like, I will say, I think it's still a side effect from COVID is like we value time. And so I don't, feel like as a society, we don't want to be wasting time. We want to try to get our time back. And so The Dental A Team (10:36) Yeah. DAT-Dana (10:56) If I have to spend time making five calls and it's not making an impact or I don't have that link on like why I'm making them and then it's pushing to the goal of my 95 % and that is incorporated into the practice goal, right? I want to know those answers because I don't want to waste time making calls just because you said I agree with you. The Dental A Team (11:14) Yeah, and we want to feel valuable. So we want to feel like we're valuable in our position. And we want to feel like the things that we're doing are daily, whatever, monthly, weekly, all of those things that we're doing are valuable. Because I also think to your point, Dana, COVID taught us too that like, this is going to sound maybe so controversial. We are not like we don't have to stay stuck anymore. It opened up a whole new world. I think for a lot of people who felt like they fell into dentistry and that like, this is just their path. This is where they need to be. This is the position they'll always hold. There's nowhere to go. You know, it changed a lot has changed in the last six years that we're still trying to understand. And on that, one of my least favorite questions is how do I motivate my team? And you don't motivate your team. inspire your team. DAT-Dana (12:05) Thank The Dental A Team (12:09) by being who you are, your culture, your mission, your vision, like what are we serving? What are we doing here? Inspires people. Motivation is very short. So yeah, like I always say, Dana, I can motivate you. I could probably convince you and motivate you to go for a mile run with me. Does that mean you're gonna be a runner? No. You're gonna do a mile with me because I motivated you to, I motivated my sister to go for a hike with me yesterday, right? Is she gonna go hiking again today? No. Would I? Absolutely. Cause I'm inspired by how I feel when I'm on the mountain. So that like difference really, it gets me that, that question of motivate and it always Dana, I hate the word always, but I swear to you every time, I don't know if this is just me. They're like, if I give my team these KPIs and I ask them to measure these things and do them, I need to pay them more. And I'm like, they're like, how else do I motivate them? If I get, if I dangle this carrot at the end. maybe they'll do these things. And I'm like, well, is that not their, like, is their job not this piece? Are you not already paying them for this? We're just not tracking it. So they could be doing 50 things that don't matter, that aren't making an impact. And we may be able to measure and replace them with things that do matter. I'm not necessarily asking for extra work aside from the tracking that takes 30 seconds, but that motivation space. Like I want to sub box all day, but Dana, are you seeing that too? And how do you feel about that question? DAT-Dana (13:40) Yeah, absolutely. guess I probably get asked that question at least once a week, right? And I do agree with you. It is, well, what can I do to motivate them as far as bonus, as far as activity, as far as, and like those things are essentially great, right? If there's a space for it. But I don't think that those are tools that are ever really needed to me. If you are feeling that way. The Dental A Team (13:45) Yep. DAT-Dana (14:02) Your goals themselves aren't inspiring. Your vision itself isn't inspiring because those should be the inspiring pieces that spur the motivation to do the daily work. And so if you are asking someone in your life that question, if you are asking yourself that question, if you are flat out asking the team, what can I do to motivate you to get there? The there is not inspiring them. And it's probably not inspiring you, which is why you're digging for the next layer or this bonus or this push of some way because those foundational pieces aren't truly inspiring the team or you yourself. The Dental A Team (14:39) I was thinking that same thing. If you're not inspired by the work that you're doing, you're not inspired by your vision or why your team's not going to be inspired either. And we've honestly lived that, Dana. We've lived that in this company where we were like, it just doesn't hit and it didn't hit Kiera. And we could tell and Kiera was like robotic because we were trying to hit a goal. So we all became robotic trying to hit a goal and it didn't hit right. we failed and we had to take like 15 steps backwards and say, why did we fail? Where did we misstep? And it was because our why what we were really going for wasn't inspiring enough. it was like, honestly, even this year's vision is narrowed down to one of the best that we've had in years because it's narrowed down to the impact on a personal basis. And that's what consultants love. dental team members love, right? Our favorite stories are the patients who came in after traumatic experience or cosmetic work or whitening, or they had a crown that they were afraid to get or fillings that those are first fillings and they're 42 and they're not scared anymore and they're coming in and they're so happy. Their whole demeanor changes because we've been able to change how they view dentistry. That's what we're here for. And when people dig for that, why? And I hear the, I hear the, ⁓ I want to, what is it, delivering smiles, delivering smiles to Maricopa County. Like, are you, is that why you're here? You want to deliver smiles? No, you want to change lives by giving them a different perspective on dentistry. You want to teach them something about dentistry that they never knew existed. You want to make them feel confident because they have a healthy place to go. They have somewhere that they know they're loved, taken care of, seen and heard, and they're getting quality dental care. Like, that's what you're here for. DAT-Dana (16:29) Yeah, and in the end, are you creating smiles for Maricopa County? Yes, you are, but like that's not why you show up every day. Yeah. The Dental A Team (16:34) Yes! Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when people can key in on that, I literally see that light bulb moment of like, wow, that's exciting. Like I want to go do that crown. Yeah, you do. You do. Because it's more you're not delivering smiles to everyone. Right? It's an impossible feat. Like you're not going to create a new smile for everyone who walks through the door. You're not. Some people don't care about their teeth. And that's okay. Like how they look right aesthetics. Some people don't need you to aesthetically change their teeth. Some people are coming in with straight teeth, white teeth, already veneered teeth, and you're not doing anything. But what you are doing is you're creating an experience and you're creating a space that they can come feel seen, valued, and heard and leave knowing that they were well cared for and they're a happier human when they leave your practice. DAT-Dana (17:28) Yeah, I love that. Because when they can, maybe eventually they will care, right? And you'll be the person that they come to when they do. Or maybe eventually the cosmetic work they already had will need redone and you've created that space that they can say it. And so I agree with you. It doesn't happen every single time, but we're looking for the times that it does and we're making those times incredibly meaningful. The Dental A Team (17:33) Yeah. tracks. Yes, and when we can carry ourselves in a way that no matter what we are looking for, how can we positively impact this patient's experience? How can we make them a better person out to the world when they leave my practice? Like I want to inspire them. I want to make them happy. They leave feeling energized. They carry that on to the next person, right? So when we can make that's our focus that we're positively impacting the person who's standing in front of us, then we're showing up every single time. And our KPIs are like, Hey, did you make 10 calls to make sure that people get back into this practice for their re-care so that they're well cared for and they don't feel like they have to find another practice that they start all over again? Absolutely, I made 10 calls. And when you get the question of, do I have to call? Can I just text? I don't care what you do, measure it. And if whatever you're doing works, we'll keep doing that. So if you're doing text messages and they're not working, try sprinkling in some calls. see if the calls work too or double them up. I always say that because I think Dana, we get so rigid on what the system needs to be that we're like, no, Tiff and Dana, they said you need to do 10 calls a day. If that's your only takeaway from today, oh my gosh, right? They go, they're like, 10 calls a day, that's your KPI. And the team, maybe it's, you know, a 23 year old who is like, I don't want to get on, I don't want to get on the phone, I'm 41, I don't want to get on the phone. So like, I want to know that if I'm doing these 10 calls a day, They are what is going to work. And if they're not, because we're in an age of tech and maybe voice small drops work better or text messages are working better, I want to do that. But it's going to be based on your community and not the person making the outreach. Because here in Phoenix, we got a lot of snowbirds. We got a lot of retirement communities. We've got a lot of people who, heck, like I don't want to, I don't want to do anything with my phone by the time I'm done with the day. So I think measuring it and making sure those pieces add up to that value that you're trying to perceive to your patients. DAT-Dana (19:56) Yeah. And I think sometimes there's a misconception with team members in this TIF that like the number tells them something about them, right? And sometimes it can, but for the most part, what it tells us is if our system works or doesn't work. And so I think team members too, just being embracing and open to the fact that this is not necessarily, if you don't hit 95 % scheduled to goal, that doesn't mean you as a human aren't succeeding. It means that there's something in our system or something in our consistency that isn't getting us The Dental A Team (20:04) Yeah. DAT-Dana (20:25) there and so I think you can have open and honest conversations with team members too and say like this isn't a value for you as a human. This is a value for the effort, the work and the systems that we've put into place because you're right Tim, if I can get one person scheduled with 40 text messages or one person scheduled with three calls, my gosh, give me the three calls. Right? So it is being able to evaluate and assess those things too. And I think so many times when we go to roll out KPIs offices get a lot of resistance because it's like, I don't want you to put like a number on me, right? Or I don't want it to feel like it is me, the person that is letting the office down or we're not getting the goals. I think think of it as a tool to evaluate our systems. Yes, our people too, but honestly and truly typically it's a systems problem and not a person. The Dental A Team (21:15) I 100 % agree. And I think that's where we start measuring the results instead of micromanaging the people. Yeah, I love that. You made me think too, Dana, that if you're not able to get to 10 calls a day or whatever your KPI is, if you can't get to them and you see the consistency is that you're falling behind, you're not able to do it, then take a step back and evaluate your time spent. Like what are the blockers that are coming up? Does this belong to that job description? So is it in the right lane? Does it impact that person's goals that impact the companies? then like take those steps back. There have been so many times that I'm like, gosh, I just haven't been able to get to this. But next week, let me rearrange my schedule. I'm going to try a couple of things out to get it different so that I can try to get these done. And if it's consistently not happening, there's a blocker. There's something else going on. And it's not just that they're busy. I had this conversation a couple of weeks ago with someone. I'm like, there's no time. They're like, I see time. I'm like, okay, you know what? There is time. There's no space left. So how do we get rid of some of the other clutter and rearrange to declutter my brain so that I still have output left for this piece of my job? And those conversations are really important. And your leaders, your one up above you should be able to help you unblock those. So Dana, I love this conversation. Thank you for having it. I think motivate versus inspire. is really, really special. And when they're meaningful, impactful results, it makes a huge difference. So Dana, I would say action items for today. Number one, is your vision, your mission, your core values, are those things inspiring to you as a practice owner? And are they inspiring to your team? Do they fully know the definitions of them? And are we ready to make an impact on that community? Number two, assign some KPIs. If you've got that solid, you've got job description solid, you're working on some systems maybe, but lot of systems are super clean and clear, then start doing individual KPIs. And Dana, I would say if they're not ready for individual KPIs, take that big, the umbrella, do your production, collections, new patients, and let them see how they're impacting every day. Dana, anything you want to add before we wrap for today? DAT-Dana (23:31) No, I think you hit it out. This was a good one too. The Dental A Team (23:33) Awesome. I agree. Thank you. Thank you for riffing with me and busting this out Dana and you guys go leave us a five star review. We love to hear from you. We love to know how this impacted you and maybe how it impacted your why I always love that piece Dana and I live for a phenomenal why Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. If you need help with KPIs for individual positions, please reach out. Sometimes they get a little tricky with like dental assistance. Hygiene is kind of easy, but you get kind of bored with the flora, the perio. Just reach out. We've got a million of them and Dana will help with all your hygiene and Britt. So anyways, that's a wrap guys. Thank you so much. We'll catch you next time.

This one is for the billion-dollar assets of each practice: the doctor! Kiera is a pragmatic cheerleader, encouraging doctors to realize the asset they are. She touches on self evaluation, burnout, and building a practice that doesn't require constant sacrifice. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. today I just want to give you a perspective shift that I hope you take, that I hope you run with. And I hope that you see the beauty in just thinking about it differently. I'm Kiera Dent. I'm the host of the Dental Dental A Team podcast. I love all things dentistry and I love positively influencing and infusing and impacting your life for the better. ⁓ We fly physically to your practices or we coach your team, you and your team virtually. We also have in-person doctor masterminds where our entire community gets together. We share, we laugh, we have a good time and it's for doctor and leadership. I don't believe that running a successful practice should be hard. So come aboard, join us. You can always head on over to our website, TheDentalATeam.com, click on book a call. We do a free complimentary assessment of your whole practice, leave you with tactical, tangible tips and advice. So reach out, there's no reason to do this alone. And if you have an expert, that's your podcast buddy. Let's do this together. There's no reason to make your life hard. I'd love to connect with you even just to say hello. So today I'm going to just give you guys this like really fun thing of dentists. are truly the greatest asset of your practice and you need to start protecting that. Woo. I said it. now be careful. There's a fine line of egotistical and humble, but I want you just to realize that doctors like you are the greatest asset. If we don't have you producing, we don't have your vision. We don't have a business. Let that sink in for just a second. Like you're not a provider. You're not just a provider. You're our like entire ecosystem. And so taking care of you, I have on here, I'm not joking. It literally is right here on my computer. says I'm a Foxy Fit billionaire babe. And I also say my body is a billion dollar asset. Treat it like such. I have a thing that says I identify as a Ferrari. ⁓ Things to remind me that I really need to take care of me because I'm the greatest freaking asset. And again, it's not coming from a place of egotistical. It's just facts. And so I want you to just realize that we've got to take care of you. And so I wanted to just give you three quick tactical tips today on how we can take care of the most valuable driver of the practice, which is you. So I want you to start thinking of yourself as that billion dollar babe or billion dollar boy, like whatever you want it to be. But like, if I really have a billion dollar asset, be as in boy or babe, I need to start treating myself like that. Like you're probably producing 500 million. two million, four million, 20 million annually. Your diagnosis influences millions of people and lives over your career. And yet you run yourself like you're replaceable and you just run yourself into the ground and you just think that you're this machine. And I just want you to realize that like that's not sustainable. Like you need to start realizing I'm a billion dollar asset. And when like this means we don't skip lunches, we don't skip workouts, we don't like overwork ourselves, we don't. squeeze emergencies in on every single day. Like you did that when you were growing the practice and I get it. But like, you guys production on the top might not be great for the body on the bottom. We might have decision fatigue. We might have case acceptance failing. Like everything's spinning around breaking because you yourself is breaking down. We've got to start treating ourselves like a high value asset. Going to the gym, eating food regularly, taking care of our relationships, being, showing up for other people, having a quiet mental time. This is a spot of like, Okay, does my schedule protect my performance or does it drain it? If you can't even go to the bathroom in the middle of day, you might need to change some things up. And I know a lot of dentists do this. I did this as a dental assistant. We just run crazy because we're like, we need to serve all these patients, which is great. But the next piece is like burnout is not part of your job. So exhaustion impacts your leadership. Tired doctors avoid hard conversations. Diagnosis gets more conservative the more tired you are and more burnout. team feels tension grows starts to plateau. And so when we look at this, like not only is it a personal issue, it's also a business liability. And I have seen plenty of doctors go through to where they actually stopped diagnosing as strongly. And it's not that they're doing anything wrong. They just were running themselves ragged. were draining themselves. Like burnout should not be part of the job. You didn't sign up for this, go into all this debt, go to school for all these different things just to have it be where you're not, like you're not able to take care of you. And then Like we got to look at this and say, like, your business should work for you and not the other way around. So how can I build a practice that does not require constant sacrifice? So my growth should create freedom, not heavier days. If everything depends on you, the practice is not scalable yet. We need to scale it down and get pieces, people and processes in place before we do that. And taking care of ourselves. I'm not kidding. Like going to the doctor regularly. having date nights with our spouse, working out at least three times a week, ⁓ making sure that we're standing up and moving our bodies, making sure that we have mental health time for ourselves, going to meeting with a therapist if we need to, having meditation time in the mornings, going for walks, getting outside, having, like I said, date nights where you're not exhausted, making dinner. That's life. It should not be, I mean, I do this too, so I'm equally guilty and I'm not here to preach, I'm not here to... be above, I'm here to be with you and to say that like, okay, I want you to map out your perfect life. I want you to say like, hey, what did I imagine my life looking like by building this practice? And it can change and it can morph. So it doesn't need to be like at the beginning. For me right now, I want it to be like Mondays are meeting days. I work out three to four times a week. I'm off work every single day at four o'clock. I go for a run or a hike or a walk with my husband every single day outside. I do yoga every single day for at least 10 minutes. try to have like Fridays are my CEO time where I just have like white noise time. But this has been an evolution of Kiera. This is Kiera was running herself so ragged that there was nothing left. I didn't want to be with my husband. had no time. Like literally I'd walk up from work because you know, I'm downstairs, just walk up the stairs, don't have a long commute. And I'd be like, I'm just so exhausted. I have nothing in me to make dinner. I have nothing in me to like talk to you. I wanna just sit on the couch and veg and have TV time. That's not living. That's not why I built this business. Like here I am making all these dentists have their fulfilled lives and teams. And yet I'm drowning and feeling like I have no time for vacations. I have no time to be with my family. I have nothing that makes me feel like me. And what I found is you switched that. I meditate every morning. I do yoga 10 minutes before. I used to be like, okay, let me hurry and like work on the business beforehand. Like I felt like I was getting so much done. And now it's like, no. I don't start until 730, eight o'clock. I don't look at Slack. Slack's no longer on my phone. Emails are no longer on my phone. ⁓ If clients text me, that's great. I'm going to respond to you at eight o'clock when I'm in the office. Of course, if it's an emergency, we will absolutely take care of it. But generally speaking, I need to take care of Kiera. I need to take care of my life. I want to show up for my husband. I want to show up for my family. I want to show up for me. And when I started realizing like, if my body was a Ferrari, I'd put the best fuel in it. So let me fuel myself in the best way. I would wax and shine. So let me go work out and like, I go sit in the hot tub sometimes in the middle of the day. Why not? You can take mental breaks at the practice too. You don't always have to be working. Have good food. You can hire people that can help you with this. Personal assistants are great. Like everything does not need to sit on your shoulders. I have a gym trainer. I have a personal assistant. I have an executive assistant. I am about to hire a house manager. I do have a house cleaner. I have a lot of people that support me and help me. And I realized because I need to take care of me. So for you, I want you to look to see how can you treat yourself more like a billion dollar asset? Everything I listed off to you is 10 years in the making. It did not happen overnight. What's one thing today that you could do to treat your body and your mental psyche as the billion dollar asset that it is for your practice? How can we implement just a little bit? Because you're not just working in a multi-million dollar practice. You're a leading one and you're producing it. and I need you to operate accordingly. NBA like players, they're not on the court every single day. Football players, they've got seasons. All of us have seasons. In dentistry, we don't get seasons. We've got patients that come every six months, which is great. So we got to make those seasons throughout the week, throughout the day, throughout the month to make sure we're taking care of you. So I want you to just think about like, how can I look at my practice? How can I make sure my practice is working for me and not me working for my practice? It's really crazy. I actually... This is going to be a little TMI guys. Welcome to Kiera's life. I hope you're ready for it. I actually put like chalkboard in my husband and my bathroom and I have markers in there and hand sanitizer. Don't worry. I want to make sure it's always clean. ⁓ but it's first like write little love notes to each other. And on there I said, I said, we work to live. We don't live to work. ⁓ our, and like, that's what it should be. We work is such a vehicle for us. It creates so much identity for us, but also it can create a lot of stress for us. And so I really hope today is one where you can think about it. I am the greatest asset of my practice ⁓ and I need to start protecting it. So what's one small shift? Can I go to the gym? If I'm already doing a lot of things, how can I up it for myself even more? For me, my latest is like, I shut the door at four o'clock and I'm done and I go for a walk right after work. That's more self care for myself. ⁓ At night I go to bed listening to a really like calming meditation that makes me think on such a higher level and I love it. I absolutely love it What what can you do as a billion dollar asset for yourself? Because the more you take care of yourself the more you put the oxygen mask on yourself first the more you realize that like I said at the beginning it's a We start operating like a high-value asset. We stop treating burnout like it's part of the job And we build a practice that does not require constant sacrifice. You start to thrive. You start to blossom. You start to grow. You start to realize that you are important. And like you are a member on the team. A great litmus test that I often ask myself is, if I worked for someone like I do today, would I keep working here? And if the answer is no, I ask myself why? And then I commit to within 30 days, I make a change to make that better. So for you, I just want you to protect you as an asset, stabilize your business and realize you're playing for the long game, not the short game. Because the best practices are not built on sacrifice, they're built on sustainability. Truly, I'm so excited for you. If we can help you, think sometimes having a coach give you permission to take care of yourself, to take the vacation, to help you see it's not gonna break down and we've got the infrastructure built around you, can be so freeing. So reach out because you were not meant to be a machine, you were meant to be a human being. and I hope that that resonates with you. Reach out Hello@TheDentalATeam.com, click on our website, TheDentalATeam.com click on the link, book a call. I'd love to help you, I'd love to give you any tips because life is made for you and not to you. It's all happening for you and not to you. So this is your chance, this is your one life, and I hope that you're living the absolute best version of it. And if we can help in any way, we're here for you. You are the greatest billion dollar asset of your practice. Treat yourself as such. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team

Re-releasing a DAT listener favorite! Kiera is joined by Brad from Kleer to talk about the perks of membership plans over dental insurance, why a membership plan can create consistent revenue for your practice during uncertain times, and how to even start putting together such a plan. Kleer, by the way, helps roll out membership plans effectively and successfully to uninsured patients Kiera and Brad also touch on why patients may be hesitant to sign up for a membership plan and dental practice resistance, and how to overcome each. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today we are bringing you something so special. I am so excited because this is one of our most popular episodes from the archives. Whether you're hearing this for the first time or catching it again, I am so excited because it's jam packed with a ton of takeaways that you can start using right now in your practice. We have released thousands, literally thousands of episodes. And I wanted to start bringing a few of these amazing episodes back for you. So I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time. on the Dental A Team podcast. speaker-0 (00:32) And you guys, I am so excited to welcome back one of my dear friends, someone that I just respect. I respect their company a ton. And right now, I think it's super relevant for everybody out there because we all know dental insurance is not the greatest. It's shifting. It's changing. It's unpredictable times. So I'm so jazzed to be bringing on Brad. He's with Kleer. Brad, how are you today? How are you, Kiera? I'm doing really well, thanks. So. ⁓ speaker-1 (00:53) Good night, how are speaker-0 (00:57) Brad, I said real quickly, Kleer. didn't give any thing behind it. People who have listened to the podcast have definitely heard me talk before about Kleer for membership programs. So just for those who don't know, let's just have you kind of share what Kleer is, how they can connect with you. And then we're going to dive into it. always like, I hate at the end where it was like, and by the way, if you want to hang out with Brad, so I'm just going to give you guys Brad's info, what Kleer is about, and we're going to dive into how to like really make a predictable income. in unpredictable times. get ready, but Brad, how can people connect with you? What is Kleer all about? Let's just give our listeners a little bit of background on you guys. speaker-1 (01:33) Yeah, so Kleer got started in 2018. And so this is now our fourth year in dentistry and having our software available. And basically what we do is we work with dentists and office managers to help implement and stand up and easily manage their own membership plans, something that's scalable that ⁓ can be successful for their practices. Like, should I go for membership plans as well? ⁓ Or do you feel like most of the airplanes kind of knows that? speaker-0 (02:05) Like let's just at least I mean if you haven't heard of membership plans guys now is the time to get on board with membership plans because I just did a podcast the other day where we were talking about how tis the season for dropping insurance plans like it is becoming rampant people are realizing with inflation what insurance plans are reimbursing that it's really not sustainable and so a lot of people are shifting dropping insurance plans and I think membership plans are the number one way to go which is why I wanted Kleer to get on the podcast today to talk to you guys about it as a great solution to a problem that if you're not experiencing it, you will be experiencing it. I don't think it's a matter of if, it's a matter of when your practice will experience it. So yeah, dive into membership plans just so people understand if you haven't heard of a membership plan yet. speaker-1 (02:50) Yeah, so membership plans are basically like an alternate coverage options for your primarily uninsured patients. Because like real quick background research is a lot of our data shows us that uninsured patients, they come in less frequently, and they accept a lot less treatment compared to their insured counterparts. So what can we do to provide some type of coverage option that doesn't have the red tape and restrictions that insurance traditional insurance has? And this is where with membership plans, these practices can create their own care plans and offer them directly to the patients at a monthly or annual subscription. So like what's included with the membership plan, we see that pricing is anywhere typically between like say $260 a year all the way up to like $380 a year. It can go higher or lower, but what the patient's paying for when they're paying for that 260 to 380, they are getting access to their hygiene and preventative care. And in addition to that, they'll get say a 10, 20 % discount off other procedures. So like I said, the practices have full autonomy. There's no more third party that's really meddling with that relationship and dictating the fees and the treatment protocol. Practices are in full control. They offer a dressing to the patient. So it's a really good patient retention tool. Patients appreciate the benefits that they're now receiving directly from the practice. And we actually see that the membership plan patients are more profitable than the other patients that still remain without coverage. And like over the past two years, like Carrie, you know that a lot of practices have been implementing membership plans, but the pandemic has really acted as like a catalyst during that time because a lot of practices and practice owners who are very cognizant of their patients want some type of coverage option, some type of alternate that they can offer to their patients, whether they're going through financial hardships, they refer load, whatever it is. ⁓ But yeah, that's essentially what membership plans 101, if you will. That's what they are. We help practices automate processes with our platform. and make sure that it's easy to manage and implement and be successful. speaker-0 (05:14) Which I love and Brad, it's funny because for those of you who heard my and Brad's podcast, gosh, it's probably been over a year now. Um, but we talked about me as a fee for service patient and we literally did, like, I was a case study because I wasn't going to sign up for my six month cleaning. Um, because like I work with hundreds of dentists for me to get a cleaning. It's pretty simple to do. I'm on the road often. I really do. Like offices are super nice to me. I can get a cleaning at any practice I go to. But Brad, we like it was a case study where I signed up for the membership program at my dental practice and I literally scheduled my six month cleaning because it was quote unquote free. And so I am a literally a walking in testament that membership plans do work even for somebody who's been in the dental field. And I think I'm pretty savvy when it comes to what people are doing. But just, mean, they got me and it made sense. And something I feel people don't realize is one, a lot of offices right now I've been seeing and Brad, I'm curious from your guys's research, which is why I love Kleer. guys research things so much. So you're very data driven from the research rather than just feelings. And I've been seeing from a lot of our practices that the topics are, how can we drop insurance plans? And I'm always like, the first question I ask is, okay, perfect. Do you have a membership plan in place? Because as soon as you drop this insurance, I don't think practices realize that patient becomes a free agent. They are no longer tied to you. They're going to go somewhere with insurance or if you can get them on a membership plan, they're no longer a free agent patient. They're now tied to you in some way. But guys, like if I'm a fee for service patient, I am literally a free agent walking around and I can go to whatever practice I want to go to. I'm going to choose an office based on location, their responsiveness to me, their cleanliness, if I like their dentist or not, how their billing is, but I'm not tied to that practice. And so without these membership plans, I think a lot of practices don't realize that you can drop insurance plans and get patients to stay and retain and even become higher paying patients than they were before by implementing a membership plan. So that's what I've seen. I'm sure you guys have data on it. Anything that you guys have found Brad in conjunction with that or things you guys have seen on your side. speaker-1 (07:28) Yeah, it's pretty funny. And I touched on how the pandemic has acted as this catalyst. But now the dust has kind of settled after two years. People are understanding how to adapt and how to behave when it comes to COVID-19. But what's really interesting is there's all different types of reasons why practices are implementing these membership plans. Because every practice is different and their priorities are different. So one that you mentioned that's a huge one right now is that they want membership plans in place when they're planning on dropping one, a couple, or several PPO's because they want to leverage the membership plan as a patient retention tool. But we're seeing other reasons too. It's like, I mean, you said so yourself, you were a case study. We're seeing that more and more. Like you heard it throughout the past like six months, the great resignation. It's been, they've been talking about it since like September, October of 2021, but We're seeing that there are more people that are starting small businesses. There are more people that are retiring from their jobs earlier than anticipated. And there's more gig economy workers out there now that we're seeing these larger tech companies like Uber, ⁓ Lyft, whatnot, all these gig economy jobs are in place. And we're slowly seeing that the amount of uninsured when it comes to dental benefits in the marketplace or in the United States. it's growing more and more, what almost feels like day after day. ⁓ So you definitely want to make sure that like when it comes to your retirees, a lot of them have primarily had some type of dental coverage their whole lives and they'll be looking for it as soon as they retire and lose it. So you want something in place for them, for yourself, someone that's a younger business owner, perhaps a millennial, ⁓ those are the types of people that are used to monthly subscriptions. So you want something in place for them, like who doesn't want coverage? So millennials fit the bill. And then lastly, like you said, a lot of practices are starting to really overcome that fear of dropping insurances because we know it's kind of been this necessary evil, if you will, but a lot of practices, they've wanted to do it. They've been a bit hesitant, but now you're seeing a lot of them are. starting to do that and they're being pretty methodical with their approach. I guess long story short with dropping the PPOs, you definitely just want to make sure no matter what you're going to lose patients, but what can we do to mitigate that number? And that's where a lot of practices have them in place. speaker-0 (10:09) Right, I think it's something that is not hard to set up. You guys make it very easy to do it. You manage it. Because I think so many practices get scared of that, like, ugh, how am going to manage this? And that's honestly why I love you guys as a company. I think you guys have amazing values. guys, I've helped with your team so they know dental. They're super innovative. You guys are very, cognitive of learning the dental lingo, understanding the ledgers and how to make it make sense and set it up in a simple, easy way. But Brad, there's something else that membership plans are starting to get a lot of accolades for, and that is creating consistent revenue in inconsistent times, which honestly I've watched a lot of my offices, like they go up and down and they're riding these waves of, ⁓ like in January, was cancellation after cancellation after cancellation because of the Omnicron variant. I was guilty of that. got it too. Like it was just, it was crazy. so people had like, January's it just tanked when in traditional times that wasn't the case. I know September historically is called suck timber It's not a great month. It tends to just be harder But yeah, I know membership plans are really getting like I said these accolades for creating more consistent revenue And that's something I know you guys have been working on So can you kind of touch and explain how a membership plan can create this consistent revenue? When to me I'm like Brad, it's like 200 bucks a month like not even a month like a year How can I create some consistent revenue when I'm used to producing five, 12, $20,000 a day? How can this actually create some consistent revenue for me? speaker-1 (11:41) Yeah, well, there's all types of businesses, whether it is health care or not, deal with ebbs and flows, or they deal with some type of seasonality. So if you just think of ourselves as consumers, I have about probably six different subscriptions, maybe more. And a lot of those business executives know exactly what they're doing. They understand that. You know what? It's better to just have this recurring revenue, whether they're charging me month over month or year over year. They know that I am a loyal consumer to their brand and we'll just use like Netflix as an example. That's why so many different businesses, if you go out there and you're on the Internet or you're just walking from store to store as a shopper, like everywhere now is offering some type of membership loyalty program, rewards program, you name it. It's almost harder to find a business that's not doing it. And basically like why not dentistry? And right now that's what the membership plans are doing. You're getting all of these patients to subscribe to practice where month over month, year over year, you know that you have this predictable revenue stream coming into your practices doors and into your bank account. So no matter what, like God forbid there's another ⁓ variant that shuts things down, I doubt it happens, but. I think the real thing right now is you're starting to see, it's very topical, it's inflation. A lot of people are dealing with financial hardships. You're seeing that all these borrowing rates and interest rates are going to increase. So like, what can the practices do to offer something that seems very empathetic to your patients? You know they don't have coverage. Let's create these care plans and offer it to them. And at the same time, If you see that some of your patients are starting to scale back or push out patient visits because they might be having a tough month financially, this is where no matter what, with having a bunch, whether it's dozens, whether it's hundreds, thousands, whatever, of patients on your membership plan is a better business model for your practice. speaker-0 (13:52) Mm-hmm. think it's a something that I didn't realize until I created a membership if you will I used to do when we first started the consulting company. I was a one Visit and I would bill you after I traveled to your practice and I would send you to the penny the travel and I was almost going broke like complete transparency because it was such like I was always delayed on my revenue coming through and I had a lot of smarter people than myself say, Kiera, you really should switch out to where they just pay monthly, like figure out what your costs are, have them pay monthly. It's easier for the client. They're not getting hit with these huge costs right away. And it's going to be much easier for them. And I will say as a business, it became so much easier for me, like good months, bad months, high months, low months. It's a more consistent revenue stream. And so I think for practices, I had an office and they're a really like adorable office. It's a husband and wife. duo there, Volt Dentist, and the husband was all pro a membership fee. He was like, this is gonna be great. We're gonna be able to, it's going to be awesome for our patients. It's gonna create consistent revenue for us. And the wife was adamant. This is so much work, probably because she knew she was going to have to set it up. Husband's like, this will be great. Wife's like, I don't wanna do this. They ended up setting it up. And it was crazy because last year she told me, she's like, Kiera, it's crazy how much money is actually coming off of these membership plans month over month over month. and we're able to have more retention of our patients. So that's ⁓ a testimonial of a practice that saw the benefits of it. A lot of practices will set these up in separate bank accounts. So it also can become, if you're not needing that cash, a lot of offices were using it to rebuild their stashes of ⁓ emergency funds and rainy day funds and practice growth funds because the membership fees were doing that. So again, I mean, What? How much is Netflix, Brad? You've got that subscription. Do you even know how much your subscription is? speaker-1 (15:49) I think like $12.99 or something. speaker-0 (15:51) Right, I don't even know and that's what I think so cool is because it's 200 to 350 375 They're very low monthly fees that people forget about them It's really not that much and they're still coming to the dentist So I think that that's a very smart logical plan and truth be told like for me as a small business owner for Millennials, I know my sisters my brothers. They don't want to go spend two three hundred dollars to go to the dentist But if it was only fifteen dollars a month they get their two quote unquote free cleanings, which are actually free on a membership plan. It's not dependent on a insurance plan. Why would they not do it? So it's really, I think, taking the, like there's no reason not to do it. It's just, it makes logical sense. And I think you guys are eliminating a lot of the objections through this that's going to retain patients coming to your practice every six months on a much more consistent basis. So I'm all for, I think offices should do it. ⁓ But Brad, I know people are always hesitant. So what are some of the objections you guys get as to why, like, patients don't want to sign up for it or why offices might not want to implement this? Because I hear like, it's just too much work. But honestly, you guys make it very easy. So like, that's eliminated. But what are some of the objections you guys hear so we can help the listeners realize like, this is a true awesome, like, it's not a necessary evil. It's a necessary goodness. Like there's no evil to it. feels so good. What are some of the objections you hear the concerns offices have that we can mitigate for them? speaker-1 (17:18) really good question. on the patient, I'll answer the patient question first, just because it was the first one that you brought up. But believe it or not, the biggest pushback that we see from patients has nothing to do with like their actual experience once they sign up for the membership plan. A lot of it are patients giving the office feedback that they're looking for the catch because they think that the offer is too good to be true. So that is like always, not always. but we hear it consistently from some of our practices. They're like, our patients see it as such a good deal that they feel like that they're gonna get the short end of the sticks somehow. But I think like everything that we're looking at in our economy, it's just like, it's all value driven and it's all consumer experience. So like best user experience possible. And if we're just like comparing a membership plan to traditional insurance or a traditional discount plan, whatever it may be, there are restrictions, there's maximums, there's waiting periods, a lot of red tape for these patients. And that is what the membership plans are essentially removing. mean, who knows what their patients need more than the actual practitioners and the actual front office teams within these dental practices? No one. mean, they know what's best for their patients. And that's the beauty about the membership plan. the patient, they need four crowns, whatever it may be, they can say, hey, is this possible? The doctor can say, of course, like there's no waiting periods. We can get this as soon as you are ready to get this done. So that's really where that seamless process for the patient and that better experience for the patient comes into play. And they perceive more value in your practice as well. So that is the patient question is it's too good to be true. But we do, our success team and support team do help practices overcome that objection. But on the dentist side or on the office manager side, there's some resistance with maybe some high-end or fee-for-service practices that look at the membership plan and say, like, I don't want to cannibalize my cash-paying patients. Like, they're supposed to be paying me 100 % out of pocket. They're supposed to be my most profitable patients. et cetera, et cetera, why would I want to give them a discount through the membership plan? And there's several reasons why. I mean, the biggest glaring ⁓ solution for that is that we see that the membership plan patients are generating twice as much revenue. So that's hygiene revenue, treatment acceptance revenue, and then overall production. They're generating twice as much, and that's extremely consistent across all of our customers. So that is first and foremost, ⁓ Another reason why is because you definitely want to build the patient loyalty like what you mentioned earlier that you were a free agent, you definitely want to make sure that you're retaining those patients. And like if you go and check out, say like, I hate to mention names, like names here, but if you go to Delta Dental's website, and you see their homepage, they're actually proactively marketing to individuals, small business owners, retirees. So the last thing you want are those fee for service patients to go and look for individual insurance plans where you're probably getting the worst reimbursement possible. speaker-0 (20:49) That was a politically nice way to say that. speaker-1 (20:56) And then the last thing is a lot of the practices, like I get it. Like you think that the members that these uninsured patients are coming in consistently, but honestly our data and what we've seen from our prospects, like it just is very consistent where the average uninsured patient really does come in once every two years and they accept 50 to 75 % less treatment than insured counterparts. And on top of that, a lot of practices, they'll just give out like these arbitrary discounts to cash paying patients, 5%, 10%, 15%, we've seen up to 20%. So based upon the data we've been collecting, the fee that they collect ultimately from the average uninsured patient is lower than the membership plan patients. you know, I understand it seems very counterintuitive of, you know, this patient might pay me a hundred percent out of pocket. And if I give them the membership plan, I'm giving them a 10 % discount, I'm losing that money. But you kind of just have to trust the process and a lot of the data that we've been putting out there is it's extremely consistent and it shows that you will ultimately double your revenue and your patients will have the best experience possible and see more value in your practice with the membership. speaker-0 (22:15) Well, and I love Brad one of reasons I love our podcast is one. just like you I like your company but the second one is I feel like I really get to be a walking testimonial for membership plans like in my practice that I ran that we were doing 365 a month like it was insanity in a five-up practice Guys, I like close the bulk of my cases with membership plans because there was no waiting period There was no deductible there was there was nothing I really could just give these patients an amazing discount and like you said Brad A lot of patients or practices are terrified to give these discounts, but myself, I'm literally a walking advertisement of what it's like to be in a practice and offer a membership plan. But then on the patient side, remember, so the practice that I was going to, I didn't love their membership model. was like, you could join like silver gold or platinum or whatever. And I thought I'm not going to have much work done. Honestly, if I need work done, I work with hundreds of dentists. Well, it turns out I had a filling chip and it was driving me nuts and it was Just bothering me and I wasn't going on the road for a week. So I thought, well, I'll just like go to the practice. So they were upgrading me to a higher membership fee, but I literally didn't pay out of pocket for the filling. I upgraded my membership to get a discount on my treatment. like just that mindset, I'm a fee for service patient. I'm a, and again, I hope offices are really gathering fee for service. Patients are not loyal to you. Yes, they like you, but just think of them as free agents. They can go anywhere at any time. If you are too far away or they don't like your front desk or the way it was scheduled, they didn't like there's nothing that tethers them to you at all. So with this membership plan, they're going to come in for two cleanings. So two opportunities for exams, better patient care, most likely you'll probably diagnose something on them. You give them a discount for me seeing that filling at what 350 I think was the filling. Maybe it was 500. I just was like, shocked. been a long time since I paid for dentistry. Thank you to everyone who's given me free dentistry my whole life. Like, whoa! ⁓ But the fact that I got a 10 % discount on my filling, even though that's $35 on 350, I did the filling same day. Whereas if there's no decay, just smooth it, I don't really need this filling fixed, I could probably get by. But because I had a discount, because I had a loyalty program, if you will, I did the treatment. So Kiera Dent, who I think is one of the strongest dental advocates out there, knows their ploy, knows what they're doing, knows the membership plans, knows all these things. I talked to Brad, I know Claire, I've worked with you guys for so long, and even myself, with that small discount, I did more treatment, I didn't go on the road, it was convenient, and I was tethered to my practice. So I really feel that offices, again, like I said earlier, this isn't an if, it's a when, and I think for us in our consulting company, We have a checkbox of making sure our practices have membership programs in their practices. That like, I don't care if you're fee for service. I don't care if you're a DSO. I don't care if you are corporate. I don't care if you are a solo practice because membership fees, I am such a believer in them. I'm a believer that it's better for the patient. I don't believe that dental insurance serves the patient. I think it serves somebody else. Whereas membership fees, really do believe in membership plans serve the patient. There's no deductible. There's no waiting period. Like, It's so cheap to get those fillings or those cleanings done. We had unlimited x-rays. thought that that just sounded better. And honestly, nobody ever took advantage of us. And then we did like, you could do 10 or 20 % off of treatment. So it really, to me, I like, I people to dump their insurance plans on their own, like canceling when it was open enrollment in November, because the membership plan just makes sense if you explain it to patients. So Brad, I just love that you guys do. this. I love that Kleer is such an easy path for getting a membership plan because I think sometimes it can feel daunting of how do I do this? How do I track it? How do I make sure I'm compliant for my state? You guys also have like brochures and flyers and so much information for the patients that I feel you guys are a plug and play solution for membership plans that for practices who want to get started, which all of you like to me, if you're a Dental A Team listener, it's not an option. Like just do it. Just sign up for a membership. Plan program. So Brad, how does it work? So let's say I'm in office, I've listened to the podcast and I've said, okay, you've convinced me, I'm gonna take my fee for service practice and I'm gonna turn it into a membership. I feel like you're stabbing me in the heart, but I don't want my patients being free agents. I heard Kiera, I'm gonna try this. How do people even start? What is the process to start a membership program? speaker-1 (26:50) Yeah, so I mean, the first thing that they can do is they can visit our website that just Kleer it's Kleer.com ⁓ or they can shoot me an email. It's just Brad@Kleer.com And the first step is just sitting through a demo that typically takes about like 30 minutes. And that's just where someone walks you through all the intricacies of the software, our success team, all the processes that we have in place to make sure they're successful. And then as soon as they've seen the demonstration and they want to move forward, there's really just two calls. The first is our onboarding, what we call the fee consultation. That's where we help design the plan. So we configure the plans. We set the pricing, ⁓ set the fee schedule, all that good stuff. And then the next call is really the training call. And then they're ready to launch. So it's funny. We talked to a lot of prospects and they think that it's going to be a burden. to get this going, I mean, that's essentially why you're outsourcing it. A lot of teams, we understand they might be struggling with turnover, but at least with Kleer, this is providing some type of consistency, some type of rock, regardless of new employees or losing employees. ⁓ But as soon as they're up and running, ⁓ it's honestly just, it depends on the team's availability. ⁓ And then we can get them going, we'll launch your plans. We have some move within a week ⁓ of after the demo. And then once they're launched, patients can sign up and they're ready to go. It's that easy. speaker-0 (28:27) That's awesome because I will just put it out there. I was an office manager. I was a front office. I listened to a lot of content and I heard a lot of great ideas and there is a difference between like knowledge and execution and execution will trump knowledge every single day of the week. So you can sit here and hear this, but getting it executed, implemented and utilized I think is the biggest piece. So I'll just pose a question. Like we've talked about this quite a bit on the podcast and I'm going to say choose your heart. or choose your own adventure here, but I think choose your heart is a smarter one. Is it harder for you to constantly call insurances and get an insurance breakdown? Like just tell me how much time that actually takes versus calling Kleer and having a 30 minute demo and having it signed up and getting your patients to transfer away from insurance plans. To me, like if I could give up and never have to call another insurance verification program ever again in my life, I would switch to a membership plan immediately because on membership plans, You don't have breakdowns. You don't have to go and figure out what the insurance is estimated to pay. You don't have to fight claims. You literally sign them up. They pay you monthly or in full and you give them a discount. And it is that simple. So I would just say, I love Kleer. think you guys, there are cheaper membership programs out there. However, I think you guys have the best customer success and the best patient experience as far as the portal goes and making it easy. that I like, yeah, you guys can go find a cheaper membership program. I'm not going to beat around the bush. I hear it from a lot of clients like, but Claire was so expensive. And I'm like, you're right. But the patient experience is top notch. And that's what your patients are going to complain about. If it's not top notch and it's not easy for them, they're going to drop the membership program because it's not easy. Like think of the apps that you just give up because they're just dumb and junky and you can't handle it. Like I'm ready to dump TD Ameritrade as my investing company. I'm so sick of their freaking app. Like if you ask me one more time to transfer and have to give you all my information, like I'm quitting Vanguard is like leaps and bounds better. So just thinking of the two differences. So Brad, I am just grateful for you guys. And I truly am like petitioning you guys, like get your dang memberships in play. Insurance droppings happening. Inflation is going up. You've got to find a way to retain these patients. And I think membership plans are the solution plus residual income in uncertain times. So Brad, super jazz guys reach out Brad again. How do they get in touch if they want to talk to you? speaker-1 (30:46) If they want to reach out to me, just shoot me an email. It's Brad@Kleer.com and I will get back to you ASAP. Kiera Dent (30:55) I hope you all loved today's episode as much as I did. It is crazy to think that this many episodes have been released since we started the Dental A Team Podcast. And I started looking to say, my goodness, our listeners need to be reminded of some of the things they may have learned a year ago or two years ago or five years ago, because so many things in our practices weren't relevant back then when we heard them, but they are relevant today. And I would be doing you a huge disservice if I didn't re-release some of these episodes for you to remember, to refine. to optimize and really truly if you ever need a topic or you're like, my gosh, I wonder if the Dental A Team has anything like this, go onto our website, TheDentalATeam.com, click on our podcast tab and you can literally search any topic. So whether it's overhead or hiring or firing or team morale or engagement or case acceptance or hygiene or associate onboarding or whatever it is, we have so many episodes for you. And so I am going to intentionally be re-releasing some of the top best episodes for you, pulling back some of the ones that I needed to remember, some of the things that I feel for you to really, really relearn right now and to re-remember, or if it's the first time, welcome. I'm so happy you're listening to it, but I hope you truly enjoyed today's episode. I hope that you share this with somebody. I hope that you go and implement today because we only have one day. We only get today. And so making today the best that it possibly can be. If we can help you in any way, shape or form, reach out Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. And as always, thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

There are roles in a practice people are meant to have, and there are those that'll suck the soul right out of someone. Tiff and Kristy go into how to match team members to where they'll operate best (and where they want to be), what to do when there aren't any "right" seats available for your right person, how to know the right seat from the get-go, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:01) Hello Dental A Team listeners. I am here with you today. My name is Tiffanie. For those of you who don't know me, I never introduce myself. That's kind of weird. I maybe should. I introduce you guys, I never introduce myself. So I know we have some new listeners here, because I know we've some new subscribers. If you are new here with us, thank you so much. We love the support, and we really truly are here to give the world of dentistry as much as we possibly can. So keep listening. Go back through the archives. There's a million podcasts that you can listen to. There's a ton of free resources on our website as well, TheDentalATeam.com. And gosh, we have webinars, we have all kinds of stuff. We have Summit coming up. I don't know if this is released before or after Summit, so we'll see. If you weren't there, sign up for the next time. If it hasn't happened yet, sign up for this time. Go head to our website, TheDentalATeam.com. There's links all over the place there. Or reach out to us, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. We'll get you more information. So for those of you who are new here, I'm Tiffanie. For those of you who have been here for a long time and you're like, who is this chick? I'm Tiffanie. I am a consultant here with the Dental A Team and I have Ms. Kristy here with me today as well. She is a stellar consultant here with us. She has years and years of amazing experience within consulting, office management, billing, treatment coordinating, all the pieces the list goes on, as well as some other fun facts that we won't like dive into today. ⁓ but she has some other really cool jobs she's held within her lifetime as well. So Kristy, welcome. I appreciate you being here today. How are you? The Dental A Team (01:31) Good, thank you. It's always a good day when we get to podcast and help our clients out through our podcast tip and hearing the results when they comment and how we've been able to help. So it's always fun to dig in and tackle another topic with you. The Dental A Team (01:48) I agree. I agree and I thank you for that. can say, gosh, Kiera had this awesome idea. Kiera, our CEO and our founder, she does a lot of the podcasts here. If you're new, you'll hear her a ton. She had this amazing idea. Gosh, I should know how old this podcast is, but I do not. I have been here the whole time and I do not know how old it is. That's okay. Years and years ago, Kiera came to me with a great idea and her famous line is, Tiff, I have a great idea. The Dental A Team (01:51) Peace. The Dental A Team (02:15) and I remember her coming to me and she's like, we have to do a podcast. And I was like, oh my God, that sounds amazing. I don't know what that means. I don't know how to do it. I assume you'll figure it out. And she did. we, I just have to say this podcast has turned into something that we never imagined that it would turn into. It has reached so many more people than we ever imagined possible. We did the podcast, we decided we wanted to put it out into the world because we really wanted to expand our reach. truly. wanted to expand the reach that we had within the community that we had, because we only have our handful of people that we can reach. And we said, there's gotta be more and we wanna give the world of dentistry and businesses alike free information. And we love talking. So this is great. We're just gonna do this. And Kristy, it's just been so cool to watch it morph over the years and become just this incredible tool. And I have to say, I mean, I'm making this number up. I'm just off the top of my head guessing. If I were to pull the ROI on new clients and even just like new inquiries to Dental A Team, at minimum 90 % come from the podcast and or a referral from a current client. And I just, I wanna say thank you to our community first and foremost and to our team. whether it's consultants or marketing or admin, like we have an incredible team and our community of people who are clients, past, current, future, community of people who are just listeners. You guys are supporting something that's just reaching so many people. We have Canadian clients. We had someone reach out to us from Australia. Like we've got people listening all over the world and it's just really cool. And Kristy, I wanted to take a moment to recognize that because they just... One, I think it goes along, it aligns with our topic today. And two, I really want to show massive appreciation and respect for everyone involved in reaching a community that you guys don't even realize you're reaching with. Every subscribe, every listen, every download, it creates more motivation within the podcast world. So we show up more the more you guys share and you guys watch, which means you're promoting more people to see and hear really valuable information. it's just super cool. And Kristy, today we're talking about, well, we're talking about right seat, right person, which we've talked about before. And more importantly, we're talking about how someone in the wrong seat, right, it can ruin the right person. And I say that this is relatable to that statement because Kiera and I love presenting. The Dental A Team (04:49) Yeah. The Dental A Team (05:07) Like it's a huge passion of ours to get in front of people and share our experiences, share our knowledge, share what we've been through so that somebody doesn't have to take that same route and we can say, do this instead. Like we are so passionate about it and putting us in that seat has exponentially grown Dental A Team. Eve, we know Eve, we love her. I actually made her do a podcast with me. And if no one has seen that podcast, you should go watch it, subscribe, give a five star review, give her all the praise and all the fame. is one of our behind the scenes marketing people. She is behind the scenes. Most marketers are behind the scenes. They do not like to be in front of the scenes. And Kristy, could you imagine if we took Eve, who's a behind the scenes gal, she's got a ton of energy, you guys. She is... The Dental A Team (05:56) Yeah. The Dental A Team (06:00) a phenomenal human, I love her, I wanna spend every day with her. But making her do the podcast every day, right? It wouldn't work and it would change who she is. Or putting me, and I told you before we started this podcast, I can do billing, I'm great at billing, I hate billing, and it kills my soul. Every second of time that I'm spending entering. The Dental A Team (06:00) Thank ⁓ Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (06:26) an insurance payment and calling on an insurance claim. There are people that were built for it and there are people that were not built for it. And it kills my soul every second I have to spend with it because I want to talk to people. I want to engage and I get stifled. So I say all of that to say, make sure we've got right person, right seat, right people, right seat. So Kristy, what are your thoughts on right people, right seat and all of the information I just decided to throw out everybody? The Dental A Team (06:52) Yeah, I could totally envision Eve and you guys, Tiff's right. She's the person you want in the car with you on a long drive because you're going to laugh and laugh. But I guarantee you if we had her in the wrong seat, she would not be making us laugh. We'd be crying for sure. Yeah, for sure. 100%. The Dental A Team (07:13) Yeah, we would. Yeah, with her. We'd be crying with her. The Dental A Team (07:19) I think so many times, Tiff, I do see this happen and ⁓ it usually starts with leadership holding them back. They're like, no, they're doing such a great job. I can't move them. I can't put them anywhere else. And truly, like, I understand that from a selfish standpoint, but we're holding back the practice too and that person when we do that. So. I think if you've been in dentistry or leadership long enough, we've all seen that happen. 100%. Yeah. The Dental A Team (07:50) for sure, yeah. And then we wonder too, like gosh, if later on, right, the person leaves or we just, it's not just right anymore. And we often wonder what if I had moved sooner or what did I miss? What did I do wrong? And that's the space of right person, right seat. When the right, when the person, you have the right person, right person I think is easy. I think you know when you have a right person or not. You're like, this person, I want to be around this person. I want them working with my patients. I want them working with the rest of the team. They help us thrive. That's the right person. Okay, the right person isn't just the person who knows how to collect money from the patients, but then like talks crap about the team behind their back. That's not the right person, right? Like, yeah, cool. She's collecting money from our patients or I've even seen him. This one kind of sucks. This one's hard. The Dental A Team (08:28) Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (08:46) I've even seen it, the patients love her. She's phenomenal and my collections is so clean, but she's really mean to all of my team. And she won't actually do the things I ask her to, but my collections is so clean and my patients would maybe leave if she wasn't here. That one's really hard, but you've got to evaluate your right. The Dental A Team (08:57) Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (09:13) person and is your right person right for something or is your right person right for everything? Right? The Dental A Team (09:20) Right? Well, and I think that's why we always start with identifying the role and the seat. I always joke with everybody, the right person, right seat. I almost think it should be right seat, right person, right? In that order instead of the other, because again, there's a lot of great people, truly great, phenomenal people, but they may not fit the characteristics of that seat, so to speak. And Tiff, I would say, The Dental A Team (09:26) Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. The Dental A Team (09:48) Truly getting down to finding the right person, right seat is number one, identifying the seat. But also, I tie it back to how often are you meeting with your team to find out what their desires are? What do they like doing? What do they not like doing? Where do they see themselves in the next year? Because so many times you can uncover things that you didn't even know. Like, heaven forbid one time I had a client where literally, I mean, whoever finds this, but they found a clinical team member that liked making re-care calls. mean, who likes making re-care calls? Everybody's like, it. And if you have that person and they like doing it, why don't you find a way to let them do it? Because they're going to have great results. The Dental A Team (10:23) haha Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I've actually had that before too where a clinical team member, dental assistant is like, I love making re-care calls. And I'm like, great, we're gonna put you in the lab with a phone and you're gonna make so many re-care calls and you're gonna love it. And she's like, yes, cause she just wants to have a piece of that administrative puzzle, right? For whatever reason, we all wanted to be a teacher at some point in our childhood and we love highlighters, we love pens and we want all the paper and we want all the post-its sticky notes. The Dental A Team (10:51) Thank The Dental A Team (11:04) give them to them, right? Like, yes, I totally agree. And I agree with the right position. So understanding, I think, what you want out of that position is key because then you're gonna be able to understand the type of person. Now, right person means, right person means they fit your standards, they fit your core values, they fit your why, they fit your team, they fit your goals and your aspirations, and they fit the position. So, I think the easiest one, it might be just because it's kind of how I operate, the easiest one for me to tag is the billing representative because I can take myself and I've done the positions. I can take myself and I can see it. And I want you guys to hear me. I want you to see me. If you're not driving right now, like watch this, like see who I am and how I'm showing up because that person being stuck behind a computer, head down in spreadsheets and line items and checks, right? Like that type of a person or like, hey, you owe me money. Like that type of a person might be a different personality that outgoing, like I want to give all my energy to other people. Personality is phenomenal at podcasting, just kidding, but really, it's phenomenal at like, I'd treatment coordinating, right? Or dental assisting. I loved dental assistant. It was my favorite position or when I was a dental assistant and my office manager said, you know what, she knows all of the patients, she builds a relationship initially, she needs to be at check-in. And I thrived at check-in and I was like, heck yeah. And then all of sudden I'm collecting money at check-in and I'm like, hey guys, let's make your office visit easier. And I'm jumping up and doing limiteds and I'm just coordinating everything from the check-in space because they saw that that could elevate the patient's experience immediately. So was I thriving as an assistant and did I do well? For sure. but the office manager saw that there was a gap in the relationship that I was filling as an assistant. I had to fill that gap and work double time to get patients back to where we wanted them and then ahead on their patient experience. So I was overcoming the gap that we were seeing at the check-in space by just being double. And it was exhausting. And she saw that. She said, you're doing it, but you're working double. So what if we put you here? and you do that and we lose that gap. So now we close the gap and your assistants are trained to continue that experience. So that was like both are right seat, but they saw an opportunity where wrong person was in that seat. And that person was more suited for insurance verification. She was shy. She didn't wanna talk to people. She was like, what's your last name? And patients are like, ⁓ hi, I was here yesterday. You know, and she's like, okay, but she's like stressed. It's like, she's a good person and she suits our team and she helps us thrive, but she's scared, intimidated and overwhelmed at check-in. Can we just move her? We want to keep her. Is there a position suited for that personality? Because what happens is that's the right person, wrong seat. And that's what we're talking about today. How the wrong seat can ruin the right person because she had the personality The Dental A Team (13:58) Yeah. The Dental A Team (14:28) and this is just my experience in my office, she had the personality for our team to be successful with her, but we had her in a position that was like, sometimes I just feel like they're like in a bowl, you know, and they put the lid on it, and that's what she, we were just like closing the lid, and she was just getting smaller, and we needed to move her to a space where she could thrive, and also increase our patient experience. So. The Dental A Team (14:54) Mm-hmm. The Dental A Team (14:56) Kristy, when you see this with practices, how do you help practices identify, there's not always a move, by the way. There's not always an open position and that's okay too. We have conversations around that. But how do you help offices identify wrong seat? It might even be the right person, but wrong seat. What are some spaces? I know for me, I'm looking at like metrics and are they showing up for work? But how do you help them identify those? The Dental A Team (15:19) Yeah. Yeah. Tiff, I always like to go back to the job description and look at those duties first and foremost, look at the duties and see are the duties being taken care of, but then also add in your core values. And those are kind of duties too. We have to live up to those metrics. And if it's not aligning, then take a step back. Were they aligning before and maybe they're not now, right? Meaning maybe we changed them into something that wrong person. And so we just need to get it realigned, ⁓ truly starting there and then having the conversation. But here's the thing. also think sometimes we're afraid to have those conversations. And again, I always like to say it instead of having it as a hard conversation, seeing it as a caring conversation, because you truly are probably freeing them. and letting them go be happy if they're not in the right seat. And you're gonna have a lot more respect for each other by having the hard conversation, right? And like you said, identify is there another seat that that person would be suited for. But then, from that, learn from that experience and take a step back to identify how we could have hired this differently so we don't make that same mistake. The Dental A Team (16:30) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love those options. I love that. Yeah, I think some pieces, some spaces that you guys can mull on to know, because I know a lot of doctors are like, I don't know, and I feel like sometimes she's on, sometimes she's off, and it's inconsistent. Inconsistency is a clue, okay? Inconsistency is a massive clue. The Dental A Team (17:04) Yeah. The Dental A Team (17:07) It could be a clue to overwhelm as well. I think that's where, know, Kristy, like you said, go back to that job description. So are we satisfying and fulfilling the job description? And then are we satisfying and fulfilling more than the job description? And is that because the job description needs to be updated or is it because we need to is a good question. So overwhelm, inconsistency, underperformance. And then I would say another space is gonna be, I guess the inconsistency you can apply to a lot of things. So inconsistency in personality, how she or he is showing up. Inconsistency on showing up, are they coming to work, are they late, are they calling out a lot, are they sick a lot, sickness, illness is a symptom of overwhelm. Are they inconsistent in their results? So maybe their results are that, our hygiene schedule is full to 90 % for the next two weeks. And it's like sometimes it's on, sometimes it's way off and our whole day fell apart and they did nothing about it. But today our whole day fell apart and they did everything about it. So they're inconsistent there. ⁓ Sadness, snippiness, like you're gonna see it in the personality pretty quickly. That's gonna show up pretty easily. And then realistically you guys, I've really. I guess this is like my woo-woo side, I'll call it. I really think the universe gives us exactly what we've asked for. If we're not hitting our goals and our metrics, our production isn't working, our collections isn't working, all of those spaces, there's a space that something's not working and it could be someone's in the wrong The Dental A Team (18:47) I was gonna say too, Tiff, if it's somebody like we talked about Eve, we didn't maybe put a pin in it, but that is normally outgoing and they're withdrawn. That could be a sign too. And truly, like I said, embrace it and have a caring conversation because a lot of times we can find a way to overcome it. And if not, at least you can come up with a plan together that feels right. to get them to the happiness. And you're gonna have a lot more respect for each other on the other side. The Dental A Team (19:18) I totally agree. Yeah, and I say that too about ⁓ wrong people. And if they're the wrong person for you, you're the wrong person for them too. And that's okay. In any relationship, that's my plug. It goes far outside of dentistry. The Dental A Team (19:30) Yeah, it's so true. The Dental A Team (19:36) I love that. love that. think action items from here so that you can ensure that not doing either of these, we're not ruining someone is what we'll call it, we're not putting people in the wrong seat, is I think following Kristy's lead there is really looking at job descriptions. Are they complete and are they usable? Are the people who are using them, using them correctly? So job descriptions, metrics, get your right person right. Do you know what your right person is and what that needs to look like? and then do a simple evaluation. Are we hitting the metrics that we're supposed to? Does your team know their metrics their job description? And do they have the skill set and the capabilities to accomplish them? The Dental A Team (20:22) I with you, Tiff. And I think too, ⁓ I always am on the space of extreme ownership. So if there's anything that I could have done better in my onboarding of that person, I mean, I go literally to if their job is to answer the phone, do we just say one of your jobs is to answer the phone? Or do we say one of your jobs is to answer the phone and this is how you do it? We hear the smile, we hear, because again, if it's not matching their personality, it gives them the opportunity to say it right now. So. The Dental A Team (20:52) Totally agree. love it. Take these pieces and run with them. Give us a five star review below. Let us know. I think Kristy, you had incredible ideas today. Thank you so much. I love the job description. It literally starts there. It starts just like Simon's next says, it starts with Y. Your job description is your Y. Your Y and your what. So go get those together. Follow through with your team. Clear as kind. Okay, clear as kind. The Dental A Team (21:15) Thanks The Dental A Team (21:17) And remember, if it's not good for you, it's not good for them either. So let's figure out what's good, let's figure out what's working and what's not working, and nail those suckers in. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com, leave us a five star review below, hit subscribe, and if you want, download this one so you can listen to it again. I always download them, Kristy, before I get on flights, because I get bored. I'm like, ooh, this is podcasting time, but I don't want to pay for Wi-Fi, so I download a ton of them there. ⁓ And please, like we said earlier, share this with someone you know. We really wanna make sure we're reaching as many people as we can in the and business world. So go do amazing things. Thank you so much and we'll catch you next time.

Dental A-Team is all about case acceptance. In this episode, Kiera shares how a practice can double its case acceptance in one month (or even one day! She has receipts!). She gives five tactical tips practices can apply today to refine that acceptance and start upping that percentage of "yes." Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is a great day. I hope that you're loving it and I hope that you remember just as a quick little motivational thought for you that what's right is just as available as what's wrong. And I think so often we're looking at what's wrong in my life and why isn't this working versus thinking what's going well, what's right in the world, what's what's and I'm not saying to belittle, miss sunshine and not see all the things that are really going on. But I do think that what we focus on, we attract and we achieve more of. so practices that are high performing practices that really have great cultures, they're looking for what's right in this world. They're looking for the good, the positive, they're building that. But that does not mean that they're not seeing the things that need to be impacted and fixed. And so I just really want you to, to think about that today as we as we tackle a fun topic, and that's about case acceptance. And if you know me, you know that I'm obsessed about case acceptance and Today we're gonna go through how to double your case acceptance in 30 days or even just one day. And it's really true. I've done this multiple times. We've taken practices from 50 % case acceptance to 100 % in one day. I have some practices, they know who they are, they listen to the podcast, shout out to them, where we coach their treatment coordinators. And we've been doing this for several years and we've added multiple millions to their practices. We're not quite to the billions, no pressure team. I know you guys like a good challenge, ⁓ but genuinely, and it's through helping. just people have better lives. And I think about case acceptance and people are like, but you know, case acceptance, Kiera, it's about like money or it's this objection. And I just want to say that realistically, most treatment coordinators, what happens is we accidentally plant weeds in our flower gardens, aka objections in our case acceptance, unintentionally. And I can have the exact same patient, exact same scenario, different treatment coordinator, different result. And so what I found, and this is why I love this, this is where I got my start. You guys know that I'm obsessed with helping patients and teams and dentists just have their best lives possible. And so really just giving you guys some tips on how we can do this, how you can boost your case acceptance. And these are tactical ways. So like take the recipe today, take this in, apply it. But what I want to say is I believe that case acceptance is a journey and it's not an overnight sensation. And these practices I alluded to, again, they are some of my favorite clients to work with. The team is amazing. They show up, they have grit. and they recognize that it is always a next level to improve. And so that's why we work together because we are like, I've trained them for years and yet they keep coming back and we keep refining and we keep going to the next level and we keep improving because there's always a next level within case acceptance. And I think when you recognize that and you see that you can actually be an even stronger treatment coordinator. you guys know, Dental A Team, we are obsessed with making your life better. We love to work with doctors and teams. We love to do it virtually or in person with you and to possibly influence and impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. So I'm so glad you're here on the podcast with us. If you love our podcast, please be sure to like, subscribe, share this with people, leave us a review. I do personally read those reviews and I'm so thankful for you guys. I'm thankful for this community. I'm thankful for ⁓ the, I think just the lives that have been changed. I love meeting you in real life. I love hearing from you in emails. I love. this community of people. I just love people in general. And so I hope that you know that I just truly love and adore you and I hope that you feel that and if I was in person, I'd give you a giant hug today and tell you that I know you're doing better than you think you are. And they're simple tips. ⁓ I can speak very confidently to case acceptance. I was speaking to a candidate that I'm interviewing and there was this there was this humble confidence about them where They didn't have to prove anything to me on the interview. was like, Kiera, I've done this. I've done this many times. It's like, I know how to get the winning championship and it's not hard. And I don't say this egotistically. I will say that I do know how to get case acceptance boosted and our team knows how to do this. And I think this is one of the greatest services you can give your patients is helping them say yes to dentistry that's necessary. And so I hope that you feel that what I'm teaching you today comes from very strong. Experience is not just theories and ideas, but genuinely been there done that done it successfully and I'm here to share that with you So a couple of things is number one. I'm really big on when we are working with this So first steps first I work hard on making sure that we have the right mindset I say mindsets everything So if you think a patient is gonna say no to you You're gonna make yourself correct if you say a patient is gonna say yes to you You're going to make yourself correct. So whichever one it is and to me. I'm like both of those are free Thoughts are free, words are free. Let's pick the ones that serve us. And I'm going to choose the one of everybody says yes to me. I even have doctors that text me and they're like, remember Kiera how you say this? And I'm like, I genuinely believe it. It's because I believe in my doctors. I believe in what we're doing. And I believe that patients deserve to have the best dental treatment and new doctors and new teams are the ones who are going to give it to them. So I'm not going to let this patient leave me just like I'm not going to let somebody who's looking for a great consultant. Leave me, I know we are the best freaking consulting company you could ever have. So if you wanna have the best consultant, call me, call our team, let's work with you because you're going to see results and that's what I'm about. So with your office, same thing, you should have that same level of confidence in your practice. You should be able to say, I want these patients, I'm going to help these patients. Now that doesn't mean I take on their problems, but I do believe that mindset is 80 % of the game of case acceptance. So that's step one is we gotta start with that. Doctors, when you walk into the room, I wanna when you put your foot on that threshold, walking in to do an exam, You come into doctor 2.0, whomever it is, like patients say yes to you. Your job is to give them a very clear diagnosis and to be able to guide them into correct decisions. Words create worlds. What world am I creating for our patients? What am I doing for our patients? Am I helping them see like this is easy to say yes or am I making it so confusing and hard with multiple options? Doctors, I'm calling you out on this. I know you wanna explain everything. You're freaking brilliant, but sometimes that's called confusion. And that makes a patient not wanna say yes to you. Complexity is the enemy of execution. I'll say that again. Complexity is the enemy of execution. So if you don't have clarity and you don't drive people with clean, concise routes, you can give them the options, but let's talk about, do they want fixed or removable? You've got to be very clear and you've got to be very confident when you deliver. Patients are buying your confidence. So number one, I want you to 1,000 % change your mindset. I don't care what you got to do, who you've got to be, but you've got to start with a correct mindset. And if you will do that, your case acceptance will automatically just with that one thing, go up and that's between treatment coordinators, team members and dentists. All of us patients love us. They want to say yes to us and we have a moral obligation to help them. Number two, I'm really big on you guys know we have this where we're going to have doctors having great presentations. So I talk a lot about ⁓ child Dini's principles of persuasion and whether you like those or not, that's fine. Words are free. Options are free. Thoughts are free. Take them if you want them and I'm obsessed with this because if I can get a patient in the mindset of saying yes to me, I've already teed them up into that confidence space. So I recommend doctors when you lean the patient back, you say, can I lean you back? They will say yes. Can I do an exam? They will say yes. This is helping them prime and we're priming them to get them into the mindset to say yes to you. Really, really, really important. And I know you don't want to do this, but guess what? It's very easy. So we have the mindset already there. Then we get them to be saying yes to us. Be very careful treatment coordinators. This does not always apply to you because the last thing I want you to do is do you want to get treatment scheduled? We are not leading them to answers with no. We are only leading to answers of yes. So if you're going to use a yes or a no, you've got to make sure it's gonna lead to a yes. I do not want you planting them with nos. You've gotta be very careful with this. Then step three is going to be, we do comprehensive exams and we wrap it with the NDTR. You guys have heard me preach about this. This was made up in a practice, I don't know, 10 years ago. Shout out to ⁓ my Tucson practice. I know you listened to this. It was your office because your office manager didn't wanna use a route slip. So I made up this acronym that has stuck with us for years and it's become one of the bread and butter of dentistry that I use. And I will tell you, you put this into place, you're going to add multiples to your practice. We call it the NDTR, next visit, date, time, re-care. You get those items, you put it in a nice pretty bow, doctors, you do a comprehensive exam, you make sure you don't have too many of them being crazy. Like get them into pretty much where they're onto one solution. If you are my mom or my grandma or my dad or my brother or my sister, whatever it is. This is what I would recommend for you. If cost wasn't an option, what would you select? You can ask them, what's the most important thing to you? Cosmetic function, cost or longevity. There are ways you can tee people up and then you can guide conversations into exactly what they want. This takes finesse, this takes practice, but ultimately we're after results, we're after the W, we're after helping the most amount of freaking patients that we can, all right? So for you, if you want the W, to me, case acceptance, the way we win is by helping more patients say yes. If you're a great doctor, I want patients saying yes to you. If you're not a great doctor, I want you to become a great doctor so more patients can say yes to you. That's where we're at. So we've got to wrap our pretty little treatment plan up with the next visit. It's clear. What is our exact next visit? Kiera, I want to see you back for the crown in the upper right. I want to see you back in two weeks. That's the date. And I need about an hour and a half of that. Please, for the love of everything, this is step whatever. I don't know. I think this is step three for you. But I want you to make sure it's very clear and concise because Complexity is the enemy of execution. If they're walking up of like, don't even know what treatment I'm coming back for. I don't know what I need to come. A crown is gonna take me all day. I can't do that. Your patient is subconsciously planting objections and why they can't say yes to this. But if you eliminate those, like we're clearing the fog, it's very easy. I just need to see you back in two weeks. I need to see you for an hour and a half and we're gonna take care of that crown for you in the upper right and the fillings. Or we're gonna do implants, whatever it is, I don't care. or like, hey, we're gonna see you in three visits. We're gonna start with the upper right. We're gonna take care of that. Then we're gonna go and do your SRP. And then we're gonna finalize with all the rest of the fillings. I don't care, but make it so clear and simple for them. They don't need it all. And I know we sometimes go, this is where we go from clinical jargon to patient simplicity. Make it simple. When I go in and I'm trying, I remember I was at the van store and this girl was like, so do you want a bag? And I was like, no. Do you want this? Do you want that? Do you want this? I'm like, just like I'm done. You guys mean far too many questions. I don't even want to come back and talk to you. Like keep it. I don't even want to buy it. And I think we often forget that our patients, while we're trying to educate and explain, and there is a line of that, this isn't their passion. And I say that with the most amount of like love, like, know, I know you care about this so much, but they don't. What they care about is, are you the right person? And how are you going to get me healthy and confident? Now they might have questions that they need answers to. That's okay. But for the bulk, people want to know. Where am I at? Why does this need to get done? And what are my steps to get it fixed? I was at the jeweler the other day and like, my gosh, it was like, you have these chips, you've got this, you've got this warranty. And I just, I didn't do anything because it was too much. I don't care about jewelry and chips and this like, is my diamond going to fall out or not? And what do I need to do to prevent that? And then they were like, well, it's this amount. And I was like, okay. But the ring didn't even cost me that much to begin with. So you've got to make sure that it really makes sense to patients in the simplicity. So confidence, number one, you've got that. Words create worlds, you're gonna walk in there. Number two, we're gonna tee them up with giving the yeses. Number three, we're gonna give a very simple NDTR, give it to the patient, make sure it's clear and concise, what is the very next step. It's very clear, very simple for them to go through. And then we take them up to the front office and every person, if they follow this, we use route slips, we have handoffs, I don't care, you can have a virtual. hand off, I don't care, you can type it in, but we need next visit date, time, so we're all saying the exact same thing. So this patient knows my goal for every practice is that that patient leaves the operatory, walks to the front office, which they should not do, but the visual is there that they walk up and like, hey, Kiera, Dr. Smith wants to see me back in two weeks for a crown and it needs an hour and a half for that. If it is that clear, and I need to schedule my cleaning with Sarah. Do you think that patient's bought in? The answer is yes. You've already got them like 90 % of the way. Now all we've got to do is deal with finances. Like that's truly it. And sometimes that's not even the issue, but we need to make sure that we have that. Now, step four is schedule first. Put the emphasis and the priority on the schedule. People are like, so we got to do the crowds. It's going to be this amount. No, why are we talking money first? Dentist diagnosed it. We need to get this treatment done. Why are we sitting here wondering if money is the issue or not? It's not, let's get the treatment done. Let's assume they want to do treatment. Remember, everybody says yes to Why would they the dentist if they don't want to get treatment done? They are here because they want to get their mouth healthy. They don't come here because they're like, well, I'm not gonna do anything with it. I went to the jeweler because I wanted my ring fixed. They made it so hard, I walked out of there because it was too hard for me. If they would have said, Kiera, perfect, your two choices are, we can either do it on warranty and this is how much it is, or if you don't, this is how much the total is. If they would have just said it that simply for me, I would have probably fixed my ring. But it was all this nonsense that I walked out. So think about your patients the same way. So schedule first, that is our next step. Hey, perfect, so Dr. Smith wants to see you. He wants to see you back in two weeks. You're like, care of my schedule is so booked. Fine, when your schedule and my schedule align, please stop making objections for things that are simple. I need you to get out of your own way on case acceptance. You sit there and over explain, give too many options, don't think it's good to give them urgency, cause you're like, well, the two is not gonna break. I hear you. But what you're lacking is they're gonna leave your practice, go to Costco, be thinking about cereal and the kids and dance. This is the time that they're dedicating to themselves to get their dentistry done. Be respectful of their time and make them a raving freaking fan. Make it so easy for them. I think about Disney. Disney makes it so easy for me to spend money with them. It's a mobile app. I don't have to go stand in lines. I have this, I have that. They make it so easy for me to say yes. And my question to you is, are you making it easy for your patients to say yes to you or are you making it so hard that they don't want to? Are you making them so confused? They're like, I don't even know what just happened. With IVF, do you know how many words they talked to me about that I don't even know? But it was like, Kiera, this is your next step. This is the total of how much you'll pay and here are financing options if you need them. Now, the only reason I use that as an example, is because IVF is about $50,000 per treatment. Just like you're all on excess cases, that is the appropriate time to talk about financing there because not everybody has 50 grand just sitting there, just like in that. But most people usually are okay with one to two to three to five to 10,000 even. Not all the time, and I'm not saying that, but be careful that then with treatment coordinate, and this is the fifth step, is we need to make sure that when we're presenting treatment, we don't assume that it's money. We don't assume it's all these things. It's not, it's your confidence in how you're saying it. Schedule first, talk money second. Now when we're talking money, we go into it and they're like, but what's it gonna cost? No problem, I'm go over that. You're gonna be super confident. We're gonna make sure we take care of all that. Dr. Smith's super busy and I wanna make sure I reserve that time for you. I have Monday or Wednesday, which works best for you. Control the conversation, make it very simple for them. Make it very, very easy for them. Then after that, what we're gonna do is we present the totals. Here's the total amount. Here's the estimated insurance amount. This'll be your total when I see you on Wednesday. What questions do you have for me? I want you to be super confident moving forward. I say super confident moving forward. I am guiding them. I am saying what I want them to do. This is all words again are free. Use them. I believe that this patient deserves it the best dentistry and I wanna make it as easy as possible. There was no pressure on it. There was nothing. It is very, very simple. I've told you what you need. We've got you scheduled. Here's the total. What questions do you have? Some people will be like, let's talk about financing. Absolutely, we've got financing. Do you have savings or do you want to talk about third party financing? I'm not just throwing out my Rolodex because what happens is, and I did this, we were buying bikes. My husband and I were buying bikes back in COVID. And I remember they were like, ⁓ and or you could do this like thing and you won't have any interest. My husband and had the money. We would have paid right then and there, but because they would not stop talking and assume we weren't going to say yes, They offered financing. And I know a lot of people fight me in the industry on this and like, no, Kiera, you should offer financing. Like that's the way of the world. I am really pro simple equates results. And if I can have simple things, I'm going to get a lot more yeses. So treatment coordination, we're going to have financial options. Make sure you have it. We want to have them immediately. We want to be really, really solid with this. We are going to present all of our treatment there. And then if they are not on a yes, I go past it two times. If they're still not a yes, I'm gonna follow up with them in two days, two weeks, two months. Follow-up matters. You have got to follow up on this. We need to check in with them. People get busy, they've got questions. Love them. Do this out of love, not obligation. And that might be like my best line for you. Do everything with case acceptance out of love. I told the team the other day, I just imagine when a patient sits with me, I'm giving them a warm hug. And it's like, not an actual one. Please don't get weird. But like, how can I make you... feel like you are the most important, incredible human being sitting right in front of me and I'm gonna help you get the best dentistry possible and I'm gonna make your day just a little bit better because you happen to be in my world today. That's the direction to come from. Doctors, that's the direction to come from when you're doing your case presentation. Hygienist, this is how we tee it up to our doctors. These are simple little steps and I promise you, if you will do these items, your case acceptance will flourish. If you choose to pick and choose like this as a buffet, it won't grow. It is all of these steps. consistently every time when we look at the results, we review the results, we see how are we doing and we refine. Case acceptance is about refinement, it's not about perfection. Where am I having that one or two words where I just need to do that, just change it a little bit, what needs to happen? And I promise you, you're going to get it. So if you want help with this or you wanna be like the team where we're adding multiple millions, please, please, please join us. Reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. But you, your practice and your team. deserve to have the best case acceptance. You deserve to have patients that love you, that wanna work with you. This is what it's about. They love you. So let them work with you. Make it easy to work with you. Progress over perfection is where it's at. And I am obsessed with this. Just think about it. People are like, well consulting, can cost so much. And I say, if I helped you get one or two more cases closed every single month, we'd pay for ourselves. And you have a fairy godmother on your team. And you have somebody you can talk to about finances and you have somebody who grows your team and you have somebody who's going to help you with the business side of it. And you're going to have somebody who's way freaking smart in dentistry. And you're going to be able to have access to our entire group. And you're going to be able to come to a mastermind. Like why not? It is that simple. And this is what we do. And this is how we pay for our consulting. Plus give you your life back, plus help you with your patients and make your life incredible. So reach out. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

It's time to perform a special audit in your practice! This one is called the Invisible Friction Audit. Kiera guides listeners through how to catch problems that might not be very obvious, but are total gamechangers in terms of practice operations. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is going to be a great topic. I hope you guys are excited about it because it's going to be an audit of your practice. I think that there's oftentimes invisible friction that's happening inside practices and offices oftentimes don't catch it. They don't understand what's going on and they're like, something's happening and it's just this invisible friction. And so how can we actually catch this sooner in your practice? If you guys are new to our podcast, welcome. I'm Kiera Dent, host and founder of the Dental A Team and the Dental A Team Podcast. I'm obsessed with all things dentistry, including my last name being Dent. Our mission is to possibly impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible and to influence, inspire, and to motivate you to have the best practice, the best life, and the best team that you could ever imagine. I genuinely know and believe that running a successful practice does not need to be hard. I've had hundreds of thousands of clients tell us that, Carrie, you've changed our perspective. You've made this to where... I feel happy about going to work. You've inspired my team. We've got team members that text us telling us how much they love working with Dental A Team. And that's our mission. That's our passion. That's what we are truly experts in the field for. And today, this is one of those things of like, when you have friction that's invisible, how do you actually fix that? How do you actually make this thing better? How do you make it to where, my gosh, like, like we don't know and how can we catch this? So I wanted to just help you see like, here's the quiet, invisible, almost like. cobwebs in the back corner that if you are able to figure this out, fix it so it's not there, you're not just walking past it, hopefully your practice will be able to thrive. ⁓ So number one is just like, how long does it take to make decisions to move your practice forward? And delayed decisions, I remember one of my favorite quotes is, a wrong decision is better than like indecision. ⁓ Indecision actually impacts far greater than making a wrong decision and... I remember I was at this really big financial conference and they were talking about how one of the presidents of the United States, I don't remember which one it was, came in and there was this big thing of who we're going and what different things they were going to do. And it had serious impact. And the president came in and made a decision. like, well, how do you know that's the right decision? He said, I don't. But what I know is us sitting in indecisions costing us more than making a wrong decision. And I've thought about that a lot of, I don't even think half of the decisions we make in a day and day out of a practice. would impact millions of lives and different pieces. And yet I think we sit on them acting as if they are these big audacious decisions rather than just making a decision. And I think it also builds the decision-making bone in our body where it's like, okay, we just make decisions and we move forward. And I think empowering your team to be able to make those decisions without needing to come through you to make every decision. So for example, like delayed decisions on. treatment sitting in unscheduled. like, are we calling on those people who's taking responsibility for that? Like, let's just get unscheduled treatment called in on a consistent basis. What about like billing and insurance errors and issues? What about lab cases not being tracked? What about our Invisalign and Ortho cases? What about team members where it's like, let's circle back later, let's circle back later. Like, just make the decision in the meeting and move forward and make sure we count about it. What about like patients who need multiple touch points to commit and to say yes to treatment? Like, why did CareDent get so good at closing cases? Because I hated the follow-up. So it was always, and like, it's a two, two, two follow-up. But these like delayed decisions or who are we going to hire or what things do we need to have for this or what budget do we have? And I understand that being a business owner is like death by a thousand cuts. Like you just get pummeled with question day in and day out. So it's like. Let's have set days where we make decisions and like, let's make the decision and move forward. All of us execute on it. Attraction by Gina Wickman is very big on, we come to the table to solve and make decisions and we move forward and we solve them forever. So I think when you have like practices, like this is just invisible friction that you don't realize is there, but it's all these things sit there like looming storm clouds because we're not moving forward. We're not getting them done. We're not actually executing on things. And then we have to, follow back up and team members need to remember. And I'm just big on interaction they teach a lot about. We have our weekly leadership meetings and we solve the issues. Now, if there's something that's gonna take longer and doesn't need immediate care today, it can actually go on what's called a parking lot or long-term issues. And I think having this in your practice, having this as part of your cadence, if it doesn't need to have your decision today, get it moving, but stop the friction. And what we've seen is like, When I have practices that start working on this and people have clear owners and we stop the decision fatigue and we stop having a lag in this treatment goes up, schedules get more full, tasks start to get resolved, team members feel like they get answers, doctors don't feel like there's so much sitting on their shoulders. And that's honestly just you moving things forward and having owners of it. So I also think of like when a treatment coordinator owns all of the unscheduled treatment and they own our monthly goal and they own how many people are supposed to be in there, we increase our scheduling. Like I was your treatment coordinator. So we start getting more people on the books sooner. We start hitting our daily goals sooner. And I've got a cadence of if you don't schedule today, I call you in two days, two weeks, two months. And then I send you a letter. There's no question marks of how I follow up with these people. There's no like, well, call people, Kiera. No, like it's just a set process that we follow. And then we make sure that people are being accountable to that. I think it's just great. Like it's not changing anything. We're not having to bring in more patients. We're not having to change up. Our marketing, like we just move things along without having the delay. So I think when you guys are sitting in meetings or you're looking at it, like look to see how can we make decisions sooner and solve things forever rather than sitting here and being like, well, we'll get back to that. We'll solve that later. We'll solve that later. Make the decisions, give the clear owners and move things forward. The other one is going to be ⁓ an invisible friction of I think energy and practices have this is crazy. When we walk into offices, we're able to quickly feel Is this practice thriving or is this practice like truly just like hanging on by a thread or do people not like each other? And I think that emotional piece ⁓ definitely plays. so looking at like, how's our team culture and what things are causing a rift in the culture. So are we making our one-on-ones every single month to find out how team members are truly doing? Are we looking at like, is our schedule consistent to where people know they can get out on time? Or if that's not ⁓ a culture piece, like people just know we're here for two hours afterwards and that's just our culture. but at least that expectation can be met. What about like where we can add emergency patients? So front office knows, clinical team knows we're not having this like front office, back office divide. What about when we come into a room, is it clear on how we have our procedures set up so that way every person's there we're not having popcorn? What about like doctors like staying on time and if you're not on time, like let's adjust the schedule and then start scheduling more appropriately so that way we're not constantly running into lunch, running behind in the day. Making sure our patients have all their new patient paperwork Thinking about are we doing Friday five shout outs? Are we doing team? Shout outs where people are looking at each other and like really finding happiness. We're working with each other I think it's just like that energy usually the drains start to happen on energy and culture and it's just that invisible friction when We can't count on our schedule. We can't count on getting lunch. We can't count on getting out on time I remember I worked in a practice and we were quote-unquote off on Fridays And I was the one who, we had a patient that was scheduled on Fridays, I would be the one who was the assistant to cover. And without fail, every Wednesday or Thursday, the doctor would be like, we'll just add you on Friday. And it used to drive me absolutely crazy. So much so that I went and I interviewed at another office, I got another job, and then Jason got accepted to pharmacy school. And I think about like, why, Kiera why did you get to that space where you were like so dissatisfied? And it was because I could never bank on when I had time off, I wish that they would have just hired me for four and a half days every Friday I knew. And if like patients didn't schedule, I'd get a Friday off. That would have been better for me to schedule rather than the like hope wish hoping that I have Fridays off. Cause I'm told like, we don't work Fridays unless we schedule a patient. Well, I'm angry with you every single time. Now that you schedule a patient, I don't want to help that patient. Like I do, but I wanted that Friday off. Cause I thought, so how can we give that, ⁓ consistency, the clear expectations clear is kind in these instances. How do we make sure like, where do we add those ER patients? Where do we have like correct pieces for setting up? What about our hygiene exams? Making sure those are clear. Make sure our patients show up so hygiene's not running behind. Like all these little micro stressors really just eat at your team to where people like myself want to go look for another job. And it's not because they don't enjoy their job. It's just because all these things eat at team members too. And so I think predictability oftentimes like helps people feel safe. I think about me with Jason, Jason has a great job and it allows me the freedom to go and be a bit more creative and unpredictable in the company. But my team does not need to feel unpredictable. ⁓ I need to create a safe, secure environment. Otherwise team members feel that like, like I said, it's an invisible friction that just causes them to create risks. And so when you have offices that ⁓ really truly keep their numbers strong, like we have strong numbers, we're constant on our cashflow, we're hitting our metrics. you actually reduce team turnover. And the reason why is because it's not compensation, it's this predictability, like we're solid. And also the business owner is more solid. I remember I did a podcast a long time ago with Dennis Advisors and they said, team members, the best thing you can want for your boss and your dentist is to be a very profitable, like productive practice because the doctor's not concerned about cashflow and there's more stability and continuity within the practice. ⁓ And so, and also what it does is it helps us prepare our days. We're not like chasing, trying to hit our production goals and always doing add-ins. Like it's more solid. Now we still need to maintain that level of flexibility and adaptability because dentistry is not perfect. I think it's, can we get 80 % where we can bank on, I get lunches, I get out on time. Those are big things that are micro stressors for teams. so creates a calm team and stronger execution. So I think we could even ask our teams through anonymous surveys of what are the things that just cause like rifts or tension or frustration. And then what are the things that bring you like great joy and satisfaction? I'm really big on when I ask these surveys, I want to hear about pain points, but I also want to hear about good. So that way we don't get rid of the good while trying to fix the pieces. Also, you can ask about it in one-on-ones like, hey, what causes the most amount of stress? What causes the most amount of joy? These things are going to help you then be able to fix those little pieces. And then I think like one of the last things of this invisible friction that I see in practices is like when standards start to slip without noticing. So like our morning huddles start to get shortened, case presentation is like not as consistent or as thorough. We don't have as strong of financial conversations. We're so busy that we're not answering calls. We don't have training. We're hiring a bunch of new people. We're tolerating like a good enough practice rather than excellent standards. I have found that I think to me that that's just like a car that's like breaking down. Like we're not fixing, we're not taking in for regular oil maintenance. We're not filling it up with the best gas. We're not fixing when things break to where it didn't happen overnight, but it was a slow shift to where I had this great car that I loved and I enjoyed being to where I look at this car and I don't even know where it is. And so I think it's a, let's not, let's not lose the clinical excellence. Let's not lose our standard of excellence because teams want to be part of excellence. And especially in healthcare, these things really matter. Like we, We follow our morning huddles. We follow our leadership meetings. We have department trainings and meetings. We make sure that we are solid on our case presentation. We're solid on our phone call answering. We're solid on our scheduling. don't lose the maintenance on our clinical and our practice excellence because that's going to really, really, really create friction where you're going to lose great team members because they want to go work for the best. They want to be at the best practice. You want to be the thriving practice. That's great for culture, great for our clinical excellence and great for our our leadership within the practice. Like that's what we want to be known for. That's what teams strive to be a part of. And so how can you make more of that? And I think like when we let these little things slip, we're also letting other things slip. And I think about like my new year's resolutions and how often do I just let that slip a little bit or how often do I let some of my like, you know, we'll get to it later. I think keep yourself to a high level of standards of excellence because otherwise you do start to decay as a practice. ⁓ And I think patients feel that teams feel that and you accidentally start to erode your practice. So when we look at it, we can actually like once a quarter, could SWAT or maybe once a year we SWAT analysis. So our strengths, our weaknesses, our opportunities and our threats. And maybe on our weaknesses, like where have we gotten a little too comfortable in our practice? Where have we maybe let that standard of excellence drop and it's hurting our culture and it's creating this friction. Those would be a few things. And so when we look at this and we think back on where the invisible friction piece is happening, How are our decisions and are we taking too long on making them? What is draining our team energy and how can we fix that? And then where have our standards slightly started to slip and we wanna catch those. So those would be some great questions to ask at a quarterly meeting. You can ask them at a team meeting. But looking at this to see like, this is going to be that invisible friction. And if we get those things moving and evolving, there could be other pieces, but I find these really hit hard in practices often. And so I think it's where... like a car, we don't wait for it to be broken and screaming and we can't get to work. We fix it on when the service light turns on or we make sure we get our oil change on a regular basis or we get our tires rotated on a regular basis. We don't wait for the tire to explode or the car to run out of gas or oil. Instead, we do that proactively. And I think when you look at proactive practices and our advanced and elite practices, They are constantly SWOT analyzing. are constantly looking down the line. We're constantly checking to see where are we slipping and we're keeping it simple. So we're not expanding, but we're keeping it very simple and we're cleaning out where is this friction happening? So we don't lose team members. We don't have a practice that was like once great and now has deteriorated. We're literally looking to like, how can we boost through this and have it? So I think like a lot of times it's not about like pushing harder for growth and that's how we're going to hit the next level. A lot of times it's more about how can we make success easier to maintain and sustain. And when we look at it that way, we can avoid like get rid of this invisible friction. We can make sure the undertones of the practice are really lively. And I hope that, I hope you feel the vibe and the energy when you walk into your practice. Feel, it like everybody's a unit, everybody's together. Sometimes it's not, sometimes it's hard and every practice goes through this. So just want you to know, like it's not you, it's not paramount to you, but every single practice goes through hard times. Every single practice goes through changes. I think when we look at these pieces, I just want you to remember it goes through that. I did talk to my team a little while and I said, I just want to take a moment to acknowledge something important. We're in a season of real growth. And I think acknowledging that and calling it out sometimes is very important. And I listed off a lot of pieces of like, hey, I know this might feel chaotic, but this is meaningful expansion and growth like this requires focus, flexibility, and teamwork. Growth seasons can feel full and sometimes uncomfortable, not because something is wrong, but because we're stretching into the next level of who we're becoming. The direction we're heading is strong, intentional, and incredibly exciting. This phase is part of building something exceptional and magical, something that truly positively impacts the world in the greatest way possible. Thank you for adapting, staying flexible, supporting one another, and continuing to deliver incredible results for our client. I'm deeply confident where we're going, and I'm grateful to be building it with each of you. And I bring that up because there was some invisible friction in our company. You could feel the energy was off. You could feel people were feeling like question marks. And I think as leaders, sometimes you might not even need to fix it. You just might need to give a clear direction of this is where we're going. This is the season we're in and things are in a good space. Other times it's because we do have decision lag. We do have draining energy. We do have standards that are slipping. So figure out what it is and then commit to, I'm gonna fix this before. It breaks. I'm gonna pay attention to these warning signals like I do in my car and I'm gonna listen to them in my practice. And if you need help, maybe you aren't even aware that the warning signs are buzzing off and that's what we as consultants are able to do. We either help fix them as they're blowing off or catch them before they even become an issue. So reach out, let's take a look, let's listen to your practice because truly running a successful practice does not need to be hard. It does not need to be something where you're hoping and wishing that you're gonna have greatness. You actually know when it's more predictable. I believe that success Should not be something where you're like is it gonna happen or not? Like your success is inevitable. Let's make it happen together So reach out Hello@TheDentalATeam.com or go to our website TheDentalATeam.com book a call I'd love to chat with you me too in person and as always commit to getting rid of that invisible friction commit to having the best practice It's gonna be great for you and your team and as always. Thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast

Tiff and Kristy shine a light on key performance indicators that won't just propel a dental practice to success, but any business. This includes knowing your numbers (stop treating them like the bogeyman!), locking in production, case acceptance, and diagnosis. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello Dental A Team listeners. I am so excited to be here with you today. You guys know that we love podcasting. I hope we have a ton of newbies here who don't even know who we are. I say that because our reach at Dental A Team is something that we are intentional about and intentful on expanding further than you guys can even imagine. So something that we are very intentional about at Dental A Team is looking at how many lives have we impacted. and how many lives can we impact. And we know that dentistry is vast, business is vast, so we also know we have some listeners here who aren't even in the dental industry, but just business owners in general. We love that and we wanna welcome all of you. So all of you who are here today that have been listeners for a long time, welcome and thank you so much. All of you who have shared these podcasts with others, thank you so much because you are helping us serve our mission. And for those of you who are new, know that Dental A Team is mission full and mission forward and we are here to help support you in the best ways possible. So welcome everyone. Today's topic is gonna be super fun. But first, let's welcome Kristy to the show. Kristy, how are you today, my dear? Thank you for being here. It's a Tuesday afternoon for us, so it's a little wild for a podcasting day, but how are you doing over there today? The Dental A Team (01:17) Doing good. Hey, ⁓ we had a big warm up and now we're kind of on the downside of it. So the weather's perfect and couldn't complain. And I get to spend time with you. The Dental A Team (01:28) I agree. I know I do love podcast days. So this one's a long time coming. This one was a long time coming and it's true. We definitely were both in Phoenix. The Phoenix area, I should say. Everybody always says, where are you? And they're like, is that Phoenix? Like, it's all Phoenix. So we are in the Phoenix area and it definitely got warm really, really early, probably two months earlier than normal for the, for the, temperatures that we were experiencing. So we've definitely felt like, gosh, we hit summer really early, but we're getting a little snippet of springtime right here around the corner. So I agree. I'm very, very excited for this cool down we're experiencing. With that, I think that's actually like a really good thought process to start on. We have our warms, we have our cools, and with quarter one having, you know, it's behind us at this point, really looking forward to see what the other three quarters look like. Was that a warmup for you? Was it cool down? We have some practices that are onboarding right now, some new practices that are onboarding to Dental A Team that are like, gosh, I've been in a cool down or they're about to onboard because they're in conversations with us and we've had kind of a cool down for that first quarter, meaning maybe we're not tracking quite as well towards our goals as we could be, but I've got a few practices. I talked to one specifically just today that is in a massive warmup and Kristy, I'm gonna brag for a second. I saw them just a weeks ago in person and we did our in-person visit and we, gosh, it was our first one ever and the team was just phenomenal. They jumped on board. The doctors were just floored at how well the team jumped on board with the goals. They've never talked goals before. I increased them by quite a bit, by like 17%. I said, you guys can do this. I know what you're capable of and you know what, Kristy, as of last Friday, which there's still two days left in the month technically for them. They were 82 % towards their goal and they were $20,000 ahead of any month yet this year. So, it was just really cool and I brag about that and I talk about that because I want you guys to know the possibilities and one of the things that we did, I told them today, I said the best part about what we do is that we make small tweaks in areas that make massive differences. We're not completely overhauling anything. we're saying what can we tweak in the best way possible to get a different result than what we're getting. And what we tweaked, one of the biggest pieces that we tweaked was looking at the numbers. They they weren't looking at them. And I remember in January or December, they said, Tiffanie, how are you gonna promise us that we're more profitable? And I said, well, what does more profitable mean? And they were like, well, we're making more profit. I said, well, what profit did you make? They were like, well, don't know. Okay, well how do we know if we're making more if we don't know what we made? And so really just focusing in and being intentional about looking at the numbers and looking at where we've been and where we can go. It opened their eyes to really even see the possibility because I increased them slightly and it's going to be a massive difference for them and their numbers. And so I say that, Kristy, I think your warmup and your cool down kind of gave me a little spur of excitement there because we definitely see those seasonalities within dentistry and business ownership too. And something I think that keeps us on track no matter what seasonality we're in is really focusing in and looking at those top KPIs at least. So we can dive and we can go minute and track the smallest things and that's fine too. But I wanna talk today about really those top four KPIs that every business owner should be looking at. And I can say business owner because realistically, it transfers to any business. I know people who are in, like I've helped chiropractors before, we've helped eye doctors. I've talked with financial advisors about their businesses and marketing companies. they're so, all of it kind of transfers very seamlessly. It's the systems behind it that gets you there that are different for dental. Kristy, with all of those words that I have said, welcome to the show, sorry for stealing it all. What do you feel like, if I were to say top two KPIs, what would your first two KPIs for any business owner to track really look like? What would they be? The Dental A Team (05:47) Yeah. Well, I think it has to start with what do we need? What do we need to cover the bills for the month? Because that's our first benchmark, right? Otherwise, all of the numbers are just numbers. We don't really know where we're going. It's funny that you were talking about that TIF because my mind went to, I don't know why in dentistry it's so taboo to talk numbers, but literally, could you imagine if you had to pay your bills for the month and you never opened your bank account? The Dental A Team (06:16) Yeah, I mean, I've done it and it's really scary. It's stressful. Yeah. The Dental A Team (06:17) I just, yeah, it's like, is there enough to cover it? Yeah. So definitely I think the number one benchmark has to know what's our BAM that we have to go for, and then we can start digging into what are our goals to get there. The Dental A Team (06:36) Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. And by bam, she means bare ace minimum, you guys. What does it take to pay those bills and to keep the business thriving? So your bare minimum comes prior to your loans, prior to your owner pay, really prior to savings, right? Prior to profiting. So this is like, if I were to sell today's business, my business today, I was to sell this company to someone else, what are the financial obligations that they would take on? That's going to be your employee costs, your marketing, your supplies, your rent, all of those pieces, your top line overhead and really figuring that out. And then adding into that, what does it look like to pay my loans, to pay my debt, to pay myself and to profit on top of that? So you get your bare minimum. Yes, I can survive. And then you get your thrive. How do I thrive? How do I pay for the things that and the lifestyle that I want? Now that's my goal. including some profit to add back into the business later or savings, you know, for those rainy days, for those compressors that go out, all of those fun pieces, making sure we've got that in savings. So I totally agree. Making sure that that benchmark is there and that's going to be your collections, right? But it also transfers right directly back into your production. So those give you your top two KPIs right there where it's your finances. So we're looking at What do we need to collect? What does my bank account need to have deposited every month in order to thrive? And then within my production, how do I ensure that comes? Now, Kristy, something I see practices do, which I don't necessarily disagree with, I think that it just makes it more difficult than it needs to be, is to track for collections. And so in the huddle, they're like, okay, we need X amount more in collections. The reason that I have opinions on that and is is because we don't have as much control over the collections as we do over the production. Now, over the counter collections and what our patients owe us, we do. We have control over that, we can get it. And we have some control over insurance to the extent that we're following up, we're submitting and following up correctly, but their timeline to pay us, we have no control over that. So on a Monday, I mean, I've put in myself $80,000 worth of insurance checks on a Monday. and then gone three weeks like, my gosh, when are we seeing more money? Because it fluctuates so much. So I think having that collections mindset is one piece, but translating that into, okay, great, now we need to know how much production it's going to take in order to collect that amount. ⁓ It seems to translate. Do you feel the same, Kristy? And have you seen that too? The Dental A Team (09:20) Yeah, 100 % tip, I support that. ⁓ Always we're gaining or we're looking to have that 98 % or higher. That's just kind of a given. But truly the production is where we need to keep our eye to get there. absolutely 100%. The Dental A Team (09:38) Yeah, and I think when we talk about other businesses, so dental is production and collections, but in any business, it's revenue, right? Revenue generated and still again, collections, right? So the revenue generated, the product sales, so you might be in product sales, know even like chiropractor kind of, those modalities, the medical field is still gonna maintain that production kind of collections thought process, but when you get outside of that, you might be into a product sold and revenue generated situation, especially if you have credit card sales, because you're going to lose a percentage of that, or if you have payment plans that you offer trickles in maybe by quarter, your payments trickle in by quarter, those types of things are going to make it so that you're looking at both of those. And if you're getting payments, even if you're like maybe an ortho practice, we have a lot of ortho practices that we work with or that we invite to listen to the podcast, right? You're likely doing some sort of in-house payment plans, which we definitely have a love hate for. So there are options around that, but a lot of ortho practices are still operating off that modality. And so they're trickling in monthly or quarterly payments and insurances are paying monthly or quarterly on those. So. If we're only looking at the collections, we might find ourselves in a lag of production sometimes, which then generates a lag in collections later. And then we go, my gosh, let's write this wrong and we need to produce more to collect more. And we're constantly in this warm, cool toggle of back and forth seasonality within it. So I think you're right, focusing really in on the stability of both is gonna give them that headway that they need. The Dental A Team (11:23) 100%. They go hand in hand, right? And so many times we're looking to bridge that gap with just collection. My front desk isn't collecting. And you're like, you're not producing. The Dental A Team (11:31) Yeah. Yeah, yes. Yes, I agree. I agree, which I think leads into a couple other really great KPIs. And one of them you made me think of is like the case acceptance, right? So I think case acceptance in it and all of these you guys should see that they kind of flow up into each other. So your case acceptance obviously flows straight into your production, flows into your collections. And Kristy, what you just said made me think of case acceptance. And I want you to tell the team here, everyone listening, why what you just said was, collect more. My front office needs to collect more. And they're like, well, you're not producing. Why does case acceptance feel the same for me? Why did that make me think of that? The Dental A Team (12:15) Yeah, because truly clinically, we've got to get our patients bought into the treatment and get them to saying yes to what we're prescribing for them. And that number really matters, the number that we're diagnosing, because again, if we're only diagnosing 50,000 for the month and we need to hit 100,000 for that goal, it doesn't matter how well we collect, we're not going to hit that target. The Dental A Team (12:41) Absolutely. And we harp on the front office team, right, our treatment coordinators, call, call, call, get the schedule full, get the schedule full. But if they're not bought in, if the patients don't understand, and if the diagnosis isn't there. If we haven't diagnosed enough, so maybe even our treatment case acceptance is mediocre or high, you might have, ⁓ we'll say a low goal, right, a normal. The Dental A Team (12:54) Yes. The Dental A Team (13:06) practice goal, $100,000 a month, right? So nothing massive, just kind of your standard single doctor, maybe one to two hygiene goal, $100,000 a month, and you've diagnosed 40,000, and you're like, yeah, but my case acceptance is 72%. Stellar, stellar, you still have room to grow there, right? We've got some percentage to make up there, but also we need much more than $40,000 if we're hit a $100,000 a month benchmark. So I totally agree. The Dental A Team (13:21) Yeah. Yeah. To that point, Tiff, that's why I always say people like to brag on that percentage. And it's true. At 72%, I would brag too. It tells me that the patients you're seeing really trust you because when you do recommend something, they accept it. However, I would much rather see you diagnosing 100,000 and getting 50 % than 72 of 40. Yeah. The Dental A Team (14:01) I totally agree. Yeah. The Dental A Team (14:04) Got it. The Dental A Team (14:04) Yeah. And I think that that school of thought for me has been fairly recent within the recent, you know, five to seven years or so. I think when I was in practice and I was just in my day to day, I never thought too far outside of the case acceptance. And I think in dentistry, we really didn't, we harped on case acceptance. And that was like the big number and it was the big target and treatment coordinators were harped on. I mean, we were battered on call, make more calls, get them to say yes. And it's like, gosh, we really did call everyone we can. And so that mindset I think has shifted in the recent years and it's still just as important. And then we're also looking at the pieces that get us to that point. So like you said, stellar, phenomenal case acceptance and what if you diagnosed more and still maintained that yes model. that you've proven you can acquire. The Dental A Team (15:01) Absolutely, Tiff. And I ⁓ also say in the case acceptance, if it's low, go back and look at your service mix. know, sometimes in dentistry, we're so used to looking for the problems that a lot of doctors say, well, I have healthy patients. have healthy patients. When's the last time you took a step back and celebrated that they're healthy and said, holy cow, this is the perfect time to see if you would love something changed about your smile? And now you've diagnosed something cosmetic in changing their life too in that way. The Dental A Team (15:35) I totally agree. Yeah. Yeah. I have a few practices. I think this happens often, especially I would say on practices that have been around for a long time and maybe a new doctor comes in or really we just have been doing things the way we've been doing them for a long time. And we dive in and we look at our perio percentage, right? So that's part of our diagnosis is also how much perio are we diagnosing and what's that case acceptance looking like. And we dive into that and oftentimes it's down like to 10%, you know, and our goal is 30%. I usually say 25 to 30 % is a pretty healthy perio department and 25 to 30 % of perio or of hygiene should cover your production and to get there typically you need 25 to 30 % of that production to be perio is that definition there. So when perio is coming in at 10 % it's like, cool. That tells me we've got a lot of really great opportunities right here in our own patient base. So what are we doing today that's kind of being nice to patients and appeasing ⁓ fear that we might be holding inside for them rather than being kind and diagnosing and telling them the truth on what their circumstances do look like? Are we appeasing and doing profis that should be? that's our P's and periomaintenances. Are we doing a third pro fee because we're like, oh, it means something more. Are we doing periomaintenances and charging profies? And then still, we one to three scaling? Like all of these pieces, right? And then I have a couple of associate doctors that I love, associate dentists. I think they're so cool. I think they are some of the most coachable, sincere humans I've ever met. I don't know what it is about the associate space, but they're ready to learn. The Dental A Team (17:05) Yep. Great. The Dental A Team (17:25) And I have a few that I've talked with. Kiera always says to diagnose one more thing. It doesn't mean make something up and find something. It just means if you have the mentality of what's one more thing, you're less likely to hold back on that large amalgam filling that's leaking into the body and saying, hey, yeah, we need to take that sucker out when you do a crown. You're less likely to watch something that you truly know needs to be diagnosed. and just having that mindset changes the game. And I talked to a doctor today that he's increased his just we're not even done with the month yet. And he's increased his production average by almost $20,000 this month, this month. And I said, what changed? What's different? And he said, well, I've been taking a lot of pictures of those massive shadowy leaking amalgams and just showing my patients that and doing the diagnose one more thing. They're doing it. And I said, Like you're just, it's so incredible. So it's not to say we hit the number, it's to say we're hitting the standards that we should be hitting with an dental practice, which means I'm treating my patients really freaking well. And that was just so cool to see today. that production leads to collections and that case acceptance and diagnosis leads to your production. And it really tells you some sincere stories within that. in order to get case acceptance, in order to get diagnosis, unless you really do have, if you're a brand new to the office doctor, you just bought the practice, you got a lot of new patients, okay? I need to say that because a lot of you undervalue how many new patients you have. They're new to you. They maybe have been at that practice forever, but they're new to you and you are a new set of eyes. So take that into consideration. And then for all of my practices, new patients are a massive piece of that. And Kristy, I think for me at least, tell me if you have a different one that you recommend because I love them all. But I think new patients really are that kind of icing, you know, that cherry on top, the icing on top of the cake piece that really pushes it all together. What do you feel about that? The Dental A Team (19:44) Yeah, I love that you said that and we're giving them the cherry on top because we're just giving the fifth metric TIF. But with that being said, yes, one of my favorite things to look at is how many new patients you got and how many during that month actually got scheduled for a next appointment. So you're getting them, but sometimes they're leaking out the back door too. So take a look at that. You guys will be surprised. Yeah. The Dental A Team (20:00) Yes. Yes, that's cute. Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. had a doctor yesterday text me and she said, what's our new patient reappointment rate goal supposed to be at and what's our reappointment goal supposed to be at? And I was like, heart eyes that there's two separate questions. It's not just reappointment, it's new patient versus re-care. And that was phenomenal because those two are very different things and we wanna make sure that the patients we're getting in, one are the right patients for our practice. The Dental A Team (20:25) Good. The Dental A Team (20:37) And two, we are getting them to schedule back. So I totally agree. I think your top four KPIs, production, collections, case acceptance slash diagnosis, and your new patients and your new patient retention is key. There's a ton, I think, that we could add. Like that just makes me go, okay, well, what about attrition? What about reappointment rate? What about, like, there's so many more that we can add in. But for our newbies that are new to numbers. Those four KPIs will get you so far for a while. I'd say focus in on those. The Dental A Team (21:13) Yeah, I was going say we never drop those ones, right? They always stay at the top. So they are the key foundation. And again, it gives you peace of mind that it's not just going off of a feeling. We know when we're succeeding. And if we're not, then we have the power to change it. The Dental A Team (21:31) Absolutely. think with that, right, Kristy, knowing where your new patients are coming from is also a tangible piece because I want to know that my patients referred to me. Like I want to know that I'm doing well because I'm getting, I'm hitting my numbers. So I know I'm doing well there and my patients respect me and love me and want their friends and family to come to a safe dentist. And they're referring back to our practice. That's the highest compliment you could get. The Dental A Team (22:00) agree. It's like full circle, right? You know you've tied it in a bow when they're referring back to you because they love you. Yep. The Dental A Team (22:00) I agree. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, I love it. Awesome. I hope you guys found this helpful. Your top four KPIs, and we slid some extras in there. I like to do that. Production, collections, case acceptance, and diagnosis. New patients and new patient retention. Those are all gonna be really, really sincerely so helpful for you. If you're already doing those and you're like, okay, cool, girls, what can I add on to that? Awesome, reach out. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. We are always here to help our team of Experts will answer all of those emails and just so you know most of those emails come straight to us as well and that we might not be the one who types the answer but the questions come over to us so we can ensure that you get the answer that we would have given you personally. You can also chat with us anytime. Head over to our website, TheDentalATeam.com. There's an option there for a free consultation with our team to really see and evaluate where you're at, where you can go, and what gaps are in between. So whether you're working with us now, working with us in the future or just a forever listener, we are here for you and we wanna hear from you. So, Kristy, thank you so much for diving into those with me today. I know metrics are your jam. You guys should see her spreadsheet. We have our own spreadsheets. We have two spreadsheets that we use. We have our own in-house spreadsheet. We have our scorecards we use with our practices and Kristy has her own scorecard that she uses with all of her practices. So if you need metrics helps, Kristy, you're the girl. Just, I think you thrive in numbers and I love it. The Dental A Team (23:37) Thank you. It's fun because you can gamify it, you know, and I want people to have fun with it. Don't ever think it's a bad thing. If you know you have knowing the game, right, then you can fix it. So thank you. The Dental A Team (23:50) Yeah, I agree. You're welcome, thank you. You've taught us all a ton. And you guys, that's a wrap for right now. We've got more podcasts to come, so hit that subscribe button. If you haven't hit it yet, you'll get notified when there's new ones that pop up. I come on with the consultants often, but Kiera does a slew of podcasts on her own and with special guests, so watch out for those. We have a lot of really cool people that hop on our podcasts with us. So Hello@TheDentalATeam.com, subscribe here. Give us a five star review below. We'd love to know what metrics you're already watching and what metrics you add after today. Thanks guys and we'll talk to you next time.

Kiera and Dana dive into the hygienist's mindset (which tends toward patient care over business numbers) and how a doctor can get a full hygiene team on board with metrics and measurables. They touch on the hygienist drought, growing your practice without stepping on your hygienists' toes, setting expectations everyone can agree on, and more. Dana also touches on a hygiene team she worked with for a couple years that went from struggling to hit its goals to hitting even their daily goals 95% of the time. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is a great freaking day over there. I get the one and only Dana, Dynamite Dana over there. I did not say the other nickname. If you've been on the podcast for a while, you might know, but Dana, welcome to the show today. How are you? DAT-Dana (00:16) doing pretty good. Thanks so much for having me. It's not always that I get dedicated, you know, Kiera time. So I'm excited to be here. The Dental A Team (00:22) I know when Dana and I get a podcast, like it's not always common, but I mean, you guys might start seeing Dana a bit more. I've got a few plans and tricks up my sleeves for Dana. We've been together for a long time. Dana, like donuts with Dana tip. don't remember what that was like dentistry tips or something. You were on a roll. You used to, I think you still do them actually every single week. Um, but Dana, you were just a diehard dedicated and always without, will not share it. DAT-Dana (00:39) Yeah. The Dental A Team (00:49) but Dana always has the best story. So if you don't know Dana and you want like a good giggle in your life, you name it. And also Dana is the best with trivia. We do a company end of year party every year and it's always like trivia based. Dana whoops everybody. Like this woman knows facts and stats like nobody's business. So Dana, today's gonna be a fun day because not only is Dana dynamite this way, but we're gonna do a little bit of an office autopsy about a hygiene department. So if you don't know in Dana's Other Life, Dana used to work at a prison as a hygienist and Dana that still is a trip to me. Like, did you ever get nervous that they were going to take their shackled hands and like stab you with an instrument? I'm truly curious because that's my fear. Let's just talk about that for one second. DAT-Dana (01:27) Yeah, I mean, there were a lot of like protocols in place for protection and for safety. But at the end of the day, you knew where you were. you know, yes, there was always I think just a niggling element of I just need to be careful, pay attention beyond my toes. Yeah. The Dental A Team (01:44) Like you're working with sharp instruments. I mean, it's not like you doled them out to take them in there. Like we're not going to have a sharp scaler. You get a doled one. Like you got to be in there. But yeah, cause I remember I worked in an office and they would bring in inmates and they would be like handcuffed top to bottom. And the girl would always be like, so what were you in prison for? And I'm like, why are we, why are we poking the bear? Like, why don't we just keep them calm? And like, I don't even want to know. Like, but she did it every time. I was only up there a couple of times consulting them, but. DAT-Dana (02:04) Thanks. The Dental A Team (02:13) Anyway, beyond prison, also is an incredible hygienist. So today we wanted to kind of office autopsy because Dana had a practice that she worked with for several years on hygiene and their number one motive and their number one objective was hygiene. And I think that this is such a, it's very delicate because I think dentists want hygienists to produce and as a practice, we want hygienists to produce. And Dana, as a hygienist, you feel, I'm not gonna put words in your mouth, but the assumption I get from a lot of hygienists is We want to just do great work and we don't want to always have to be looking at numbers. Maybe that's true or not, but like Dana, I want to hear what's kind of like the mindset of hygienist and then how do doctors approach this? And then we'll dig into the practice that you worked with that like really freaking crushed it. But I think like, this is such a, I don't know. I feel like it's a sliver in a practice. Like no one wants to talk about it. Like let's just not touch it so it doesn't hurt. But then it like blows up and people are like, my freaking hygienist aren't producing and they don't want to like tick them off because no one's there. So let's talk about it, because is that how hygienists feel and how do you win over hygiene? DAT-Dana (03:12) Yeah, I think it's a mindset. I think it's a difference in mindset, right? I think dentists are always looking at the business side of it because oftentimes the dentists are the business owners and hygiene, their mindset is patient care. And so the easiest way I think to get alignment on that is you actually are caring about the same thing. You just don't realize it. And so it is getting alignment in like numbers tell us how we are doing in patient care truly. So getting a hygiene team to understand that, getting them aligned that. No numbers aren't everything, but actually numbers tell you exactly the thing that you care about most. ⁓ And so I feel like they look at it from different angles. And if you can get them aligned and actually it is the same thing and numbers tell you hygienist, the thing that you care about most, which is patient care and making sure that every patient leaves your chair happy, healthier than when they walked in. Understanding that the numbers will tell you how well you're doing at that. ⁓ It's definitely a mindset shift, but I think once you can get them aligned with that and then understand that you're truly talking the same thing, it's a game changer. The Dental A Team (04:25) I love that Dana and as you were saying that it made me think of like when we do a practice assessment with a practice when they're reaching out to work with us or just wanting clarity the first question one of our first questions is like do you have a 10-year vision that you and your team are rallied around and as you were saying that Dana I thought about okay well if our hygiene department has a vision that we're all rallied around so let's say it's patient care well then the next question always that follows is how do we know if we're having excellent patient care and it's something that can't be a feeling because we've got to be able to track and measure just like I can't say that I'm the best basketball player, but I have no way to prove that and measure it. My husband's in pharmacy and he's always like, if you're the best, then just freaking prove it, like stats and number it. Like, why do you have to it on feelings? Like, ⁓ it's such a hard thing because then we really never as a hygiene department know, like, are we really doing the best patient care? So then we make actual stats of, okay, great, we have this many perio patients. Like, this is our perio percentage. This is our fluoride percentage. This is how many reviews that we get, this is how many patients are leaving on time. And then like, this is how we know that we're like hitting our daily goal to make sure we're not missing like our FMXs or different things that need to be done on a regular basis. So as you said that, I thought like even a way to get hygiene teams on board is like, what is our vision? Like you said, and then how do we truly measure that? We got to have actual stats with that. It can't just be the warm fuzzies of I think I'm doing well because what's crazy is I can think I'm doing well and then I have to go run a mile. And I'm like, no, I've been doing my cardio. Like I'm really a great runner. And then it's like, I ran a mile in 15 minutes and people are like, are you even running? Like until I track and measure, there's no way to improve. And so I think it's when people realize like, that's the only reason we're doing it is to see like, hey, if we've got the best patient care, then like, let's prove it, let's document it. So that way we're confident in that as well. So Dana, I'm curious, I'm a dentist. How do I get my hygiene team on board that there's gonna be a consultant that's gonna like make them? track number, like what do people even say to make a hygienist, which is you like get on board with this idea. And then Dana, we're going to dig into like how you help turn around a hygiene team. So A though, how does this dentist get his hygienist on board or hers? DAT-Dana (06:29) Yeah, I think it's an open and honest conversation of just like you said, like, give me give me descriptors of what an amazing hygiene department looks like to you. If you worked in an office and you said you walked in and this was the best hygiene team you've ever worked with you've ever been a part of what does that look like? And oftentimes that will lead to conversations about patient care about those things. And then it is okay, guys, how do we know, right? I I want you guys to be the best hygiene team. probably sit here and think you are the best hygiene team. How do I know that though? And then you start to attach those metrics and those measurables to say, hey, like, we want to be this. We, we feel like maybe we even are but how do we know for sure? And I think that it's an opening that conversation and as well as like the Best part of, yes, I worked very solo for many years in the prison, but when I went into private practice or when I got to temp in offices, the best thing that I loved was getting to learn from my other hygienists. And so we're going to get alignment. We're going to learn a lot from each other. Everybody's got their strengths and weaknesses. And so over the next couple of months, I want you to share your tips and tricks. We're going to talk about verbiage. We're going to talk about how to have conversations. But at the end of the day, our goal should be that when patients walk in no matter which hygienist they see the same thing is done each and every time. The Dental A Team (07:54) And I love that you say that because it's like, this is how we get them on in. And I think like, doctors, don't know, Dana, a doctor giving you their, I don't know, expectation or sharing with you as a hygienist, does that like turn you off to where you just want to go like look for another job? Because I think dentists are so scared of their hygiene team leaving that they don't even want to like tell them what they're expecting from them. Cause they're just like, it's okay. Like it's better to just. hang on to them rather than wanting to elevate. Like how do you navigate this like hygiene drought plus the need to grow your practice? Like how do you navigate that? And what does that feel like as a hygienist? DAT-Dana (08:31) Mm-hmm. I do feel like it can be a scary conversation. It can be an uncomfortable conversation or a conversation where a dentist kind of dread, but ultimately I think hygienists are usually typically goal oriented, growth oriented, like they want to know what the expectations are, because at the end of the day, they want to hit it. And so they can sit here and say, Hey, I think I'm doing a great job. I feel like I'm working hard, right. But what actually tells them that? And it does come down to the expectations, the goals, the numbers, those pieces, I think The Dental A Team (08:53) Mm-hmm. DAT-Dana (09:06) It can be a difficult conversation, but I honestly think that hygiene departments, hygienists themselves, like they want to know what the expectations are because I'll tell you they are typically ⁓ goal driven achievement people. Like they want to hit the things that you want. And so I think again, it's like clarity is the best thing that you can do for them. And if you are frustrated that they're not meeting expectations, they're probably frustrated that they don't even know what the expectations are. The Dental A Team (09:17) Air quotes typically. I mean, that's fair. And I love that you say that because you're right, most hygienists do want to know what the goals are. And even if you just casually like put it on the table, they're going to casually look at that and just start to casually think about it. And I think like, Dana, I really want to dig into because I know you had a practice and you had an entire hygiene department and you worked heavily with them and they like all loved you, which I think is not common. Like I think you usually have like three of the four that are super excited about and you got one that's just kind of off on their own planet, ⁓ which happens a lot. But I think it's like, it's okay to give expectations. I think the piece that I've gathered, and I'm not a hygienist, so please, please chime in. I think hygienists just want to make sure that like, of all the things you want them to do, that you're not hurting patient care. So it's like, I'm okay to scan, I'm okay to probe, I'm okay to take x-rays. Like I really get the vibe that hygienists truly are not upset by that. But it's like, if you want me to scan, probe, x-ray, plus scale, polish, do a great exam. Can we just be realistic and fair of not making me be the Olympic level athlete hygienist and maybe it's we probe and then we scan on the next visit so we could break it up so it's not having to happen every time. And I think when hygienists and doctors or hygienists and consultants come together and where it's like, OK, what are we ultimately all going for? Let's be realistic with our timing. I don't want them to have to be A star players because not every hygienist is that. So I'm like, how can we make this tour like my B players can still thrive where my A's can like crush more and my C's feel like they it's not so far away. I think like when if you can build it that way, I feel like hygienists are way more apt and I also feel like don't don't try to get them to do every single thing right at once. Like let's do baby steps to where they like if we're not even doing fluoride, if we're not even tracking our numbers, like we're not going to scan every time. And I know doctors, you want to do that. Gap leap. but you got to baby scale them up. So Dana, I'm just going to like hand this over to you. Like, what did you do with an office? How did you win them over? How do you scale up hygiene departments? Because I think it's delicate, but I think you're the expert on our team that does this very successfully with a lot of hygiene teams. DAT-Dana (11:43) Yeah, and I think when it comes to, Dennis, we've got to remove a lot of barriers first, right? That's the first thing. is, barriers are always going to be time. It's always going to be, well, my schedule's not full. It's always going to be, so we really talked about those barriers and yes, we want to make sure that your schedule's full, but when it isn't full, how do you maximize, right, what is in your chair? So we started with fluoride, honestly, which was an easy way, and I think that... When we talk about goals, it helps to know like, why is this goal the way that it is? Right? Why is a fluoride acceptance goal 90 %? So let's talk about that, right? Think about the patients that sit in your chair. It's very rare that a patient sits in your chair that does that there's not something going on that fluoride would benefit. Right? So even if they have immaculate teeth and they have very little dentistry done, let's keep it that way. Right? If they've got a lot of dentistry done, let's make sure it lasts as long as it possibly can. If they've got sensitivity, right? So just talking about what are the benefits, who can benefit from it? And honestly and truly statistically, that many patients that sit in your chair can actually benefit from it. So we did start with full ride and we worked on that. The Dental A Team (12:31) Mm-hmm. Right. DAT-Dana (12:58) And then after fluoride, our next layer then was perio. And again, it came down to, well, the goal is 30 % of your patients, right, should be perio patients. Well, why? Right? Why is that the goal? Well, the goal is, right, science and statistics tell us that unless you have a very unique population within your practice, so unless you are in a college town and you pretty much see only patients in their 20s, right, or you're a pediatric practice, 30 % of the population has that, right? And so that's just like science-based, that's just database. But having those conversations, I think, opens up windows to say, okay, this isn't arbitrary goals. We're not just picking numbers out of the sky. There's reasons that these goals exist. And unless you are truly unique in that situation, that goal applies to you. The Dental A Team (13:29) Hmm. ⁓ yeah, go ahead. think that that's like, was just going to chime in real quick on like, I love that you broke down the why. And as you were saying it, I was thinking some team members don't need the why. Most dental assistants don't actually need a why. Most treatment coordinators don't really need a why. They're more like, let's just drive and go. Hygienists on the other hand, like, let's just look at their natural behavior. Very detailed. I mean, they sit there and they scrape that calculus. mean, Dana, the fact that you sit there and like, you want to get every little last piece of it. If I've got a personality that's that obsessive of that small of details, they're going to want to understand the why. So as you were saying that Dana, I was like, even explaining to dentists, like why do they need to know why the goal is and why it's based with science? And because that's who they are. They're bred with like, we want to know the science. We want to know the background behind it. And I think, I think you even just taking that step with hygienist Dana, like kudos to you for calling that out. They're going to be way more inclined to buy in because like you said, it's feeding their brain and how they're naturally wired. to be able to like, that makes sense. I can get on board with this and I can make sure I'm following rather than you're just making me look at every patient for fluoride because you want numbers. It's like, no, 90%. I tell everybody with fluoride, like my go-to for hygienists is I'm like, look at my teeth. They're really clean. You can clean me in 30 minutes. And yet how many hygienists in my entire life has offered me fluoride? And the answer is none. And I'm like, the fact that not even one offered it to me, like how dare you hygienists assume that I don't want to be proactive and preventative with my teeth? Gizzles offer it to me because if I would have known I can't ever go back in time retroactively and do that and I wish that hygienists when I was you know 15 16 17 would have offered this to me to proactively take care of my teeth I did not learn about fluoride until I worked in a dental practice and I'm like rude you just assumed I was like clean and healthy and wouldn't want it versus like why not offer it because even your clean immaculate patients if you tell them this is the most proactive preventative thing you can do for your teeth for 30 bucks or 45, whatever it is, like, do know how much a filling is? I'm going to say yes to you. So I think Dana, like kudos to you on that. But what else were you gonna say? Cause I know I cut you off on your thought process too. DAT-Dana (15:55) no, and my next thought process was then we tackled just alignment on all of those things. And so we spent a lot of time building Perio protocol ⁓ and talking about the conversations that go along with it. And even on people who don't qualify right for Perio but are heavy builders because we just kept hearing time, time, we're running behind, we're running behind. And it is just... navigating conversations with patients because you can have heavy builders and yes is that hygienist we want to remove every last speck of calculus but if a patient presents with too much to get done in an hour we have to have those conversations. Hey since I saw you last there is quite a bit of build up here. I'm gonna do the best that I can to get to get all of it off today but moving forward I think it would be super beneficial if you came more often and I could see you more frequently to ensure that I can get The Dental A Team (16:36) Mm-hmm. DAT-Dana (16:51) I can remove all of this every single time. And so it is, then it came down to conversations. And so we built up period of protocol. We talked about what if a patient refuses? We talk about, we still do restorative treatment if a patient refuses period? What are we doing in those instances? Because I wanted them to feel super confident. No matter who sat in their chair, they could navigate whatever they presented. ⁓ And that they had something to fall back on and I think it was They had a very seasoned hygienist in their practice and I can't tell you how proud of her I was she made massive moves and had Conversations that I think she kind of knew needed to happen But because she had the framework to make them happen because she had a protocol to lean back on That she had something to give her confidence to say like yeah. No, this does The Dental A Team (17:27) you DAT-Dana (17:45) need to move in that direction. I mean she just made leaps and bounds. I mean she went from I think about 10 % perio to about 28 % when I was done with the hygiene department. The Dental A Team (17:56) my gosh, that's incredible. And Dana, just to give like our listeners a little like glimpse of you worked with this team for about two years, not hitting goal. mean, not hitting perio, not hitting fluoride, not being a producing hygiene team to two years later. Fast forward, just kind of give a glimpse of what this hygiene team looked like when you were wrapping up with that office. DAT-Dana (18:14) Yeah, we went from pretty much not hitting goal routinely ever to hitting their daily goal about 90, 95 % of the time. So they made leaps and bounds and they had a lot of hard conversations because part of it was, you know, there is doctors play a part in this. And I think doctors oftentimes like will kind of be hands off. These doctors really wanted to be hands on totally fine. And so it was even getting alignment between the hygiene team and the doctors on perio. on those pieces and so they had a lot of hard conversations they did a lot of calibration they even were calibrating probing depths and probe readings and like they've just put in a ton of work but that work gave them so much movement. ⁓ And I think just so much confidence as a hygiene department that like, we really can learn from each other. We really can teach each other. We really can have these conversations. And I think it also empowered the doctors to understand that like, again, it was a miss of expectations. Their team wanted to do a good job. Their team wanted to meet the protocol. Their team wanted to do what they wanted them to do or the standards that they had for their practice. They just needed to have the conversations, have the alignment and create those boundaries amongst each other and it was truly amazing to see what they could do once they once they dug in. The Dental A Team (19:37) ⁓ Dana, this, think is just a, there were so many pieces I heard that I hope office has got the number one I heard was the hygiene team wanted to make their doctors proud. And I think so many doctors think like they don't want to produce or they don't want to do this. And 95 % of all team players, I think you and I would agree to this, coaching as many as we have, there's like a very, very, very small percentage that actually is like not wanting to take care of their doctor. I'm like 98 % of them all want to take care of their doctors. So I think you guys just realizing and hearing that. The second thing is like Dana, it was two years that she worked with this hygiene team. And what I gathered from all of it was alignment and why, and then giving them the confidence. Because what I found with hygienists is a lot of times the reason that they do bloody profis is not because they don't like they don't want to charge out a bloody profi. Like I feel like the hygienists are like my hands hurt and I just got paid for a profi when I did a full mouth of bribement or whatever it was that they did. but they're uncomfortable with the conversation. And I don't blame hygienists. You sit there for an hour with this patient and you gotta chat along with them. And it's very uncomfortable to then have to say like, you've been seeing me for 10 years and now I've got to tell you you have perio. Like that's just such a, like I would rather not because I have to see this patient so closely. Or dentists, like not to say you don't have intimate relationships with your patients, but you usually come in for like five minutes for an exam. And then when you are doing treatment with a patient, Usually their mouths open and they're numb and you can't like, they're not talking to you. And where this is a hygienist, is like therapy session in there, like a hairdresser almost where it's like such an intimate relationship that these hygienists build. And so Dana, think kudos to you to give this hygiene team confidence. And that's what I gathered was like alignment, confidence, and then also getting the doctors to align on expectations. So that way everybody is there. And like also to hear you say that a seasoned hygienist was able to make transformation, I think I also think kudos to these doctors that saw the need of the hygiene department. They were like, let's laser focus in on this for two years, like two years they worked in. Yes, they expanded a little bit to other departments, but like Dana, mean, I just think about it. If you get your hygiene team from hitting goal, like none to hitting goal 90, 98 % of the time, the amount of revenue, the amount of patients, the amount of diagnosing and co-diagnosing with your doctors that these high Gens are able to do the amount of perio uptick. Like we're going from $90 pro fees to 250 to $400 scalings. And not to say we're doing it to uptick for revenue. It's just, what the patients need. And we're starting to diagnose it correctly. well, Dana, you like paid for yourself a hundred times over. it's, that is the type of stuff. And now that hygiene team is confident, they're equipped, they're able to care for patients. And I guarantee you, Dana, I'm not a hygienist. So I'm just curious, like. My hunch is a hygienist who's able to have the confidence, have these conversations actually leaves with more confidence as a hygienist rather than the hygienist who feels like they're taking care of a patient, but deep down knowing that they let the patient down, they just didn't know how to get out of that conversation. DAT-Dana (22:38) Yeah, I think that that's that's one of the things that was like the beauty of being the person looking at from the outside in and I think it honestly truly I think allow them to like love being hygienist. I don't want to say again, right but even more ⁓ because I do think that as hygienist and I think they even admitted like, hey, we've known some of these conversations needed to happen or are on the horizon of happening and we just didn't have the tools we didn't have that and we didn't want to say something and then have a doctor come in and disagree, right? Or we didn't want to do the wrong thing unintentionally. so having those guidelines, having the set protocols, the set The Dental A Team (23:12) Mm-hmm. DAT-Dana (23:20) pieces in place, I think really gave them confidence and also really truly then they could see what amazing patient care they were giving. And I honestly think it brought them just like closer as a department, a better culture for the practice and truly love being hygiene. The Dental A Team (23:40) And I think Dana like I just see it even in you I hope you guys were able to see that clip of Dana like the the glowing radiance of excitement of being able to help hygienists love their profession even more to be confident in this I think that that is just magic for all of us to be able to watch that and see and I think for you guys listening one if you need help with your hygiene department I think Dana just showed like We really do very much give confidence to your department and I think doctors it's hard for you because you want to tell the hygienist what you want But hygienists sometimes need to feel like heard, seen, and understood by someone who's more of a colleague and comrade to them. Like Dana is, she's a hygienist. She understands what those feelings feel like. And so to have a coach and a guide guide your hygiene department, bring the doctors and the hygienists together. But I love that it was like, let's explain why, let's align, let's give verbiage, let's get doctors and hygienists alignment. And then like really have somebody who's holding them accountable, driving these results with them. And the end result is a hygiene department that's flourishing, hitting goals and loving their profession. And to me, that's gonna retain your hygiene department way more than not having the conversations. That's going to attract hygienists to your practice way more because you've now got raving fan hygienists who are confident that when someone new comes in, they give them the tools and the resources to be these great clinicians. I think Dana just like insane kudos and I hope people also hear that. And if you're interested, reach Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. This is what we do and Dana, like I said, Dynamite Dana over there, she just like, I think it's a subtle love. of growing them of where they need to go and the results are just incredible. DAT-Dana (25:13) Yeah, they were, they were a great group. They really dug in. And you're right, it does, it does help when they know, you've been there, you face the things you've had to have the conversations. ⁓ It just starts out with trust. And I mean, at the end of the two years, I just remember sitting down and saying, like, thank you so much for trusting me. Thank you so much for putting in the work. Because it's, it, it allowed me right, I'm not clinical really anymore, but it allowed me just the experience of knowing and being super confident that like amazing patient care was walking out of there ⁓ truly was a highlight for me. The Dental A Team (25:50) That's amazing. And I think Dana hearing that and the doctors win is that they also can leave at the end of the day, knowing that their hygiene department is delivering the patient care that they wanted, that they were hoping that like the doctor just could not get, I mean, and these are seasoned doctors. It's not like we were starting with a brand new practice. Like they had been working with this hygiene department for years. The hygiene department had gone through other hygiene coaching. And I think Dana just like to be able to give that to the patients, to the hygiene team and the practice, like Such a gift and I'm really proud of you and I hope people listening realize this is a reality that has happened. Yes, we gave a one off office autopsy, but it happens for multiple other practices the same way. So if you're interested or you're thinking about it or other departments reach out and Dana, thanks for being on the podcast with me. Thank all of you for listening and as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Kiera is a guest on The Extraction, a podcast by TeamCare, to talk about accountability without the drama. She, along with co-hosts Kyle Bergman and Dr. Sharon Bleiler, discuss the sometimes difficult realities of what it takes to be a good leader versus a great leader. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera. And today we are sharing a guest interview I did on another podcast. And it was too valuable not to bring you guys here. this episode, you're gonna hear this host lead the conversation and then I'll wrap us up at the end. I cannot wait. It was truly one of my episodes and I truly hope you enjoy. The Dental A Team (00:18) everyone and welcome back to The Extraction podcast. Your cohost Kyle here today with my cohost and the co-founder of TeamCare, Dr. Sharon Bleiler. And today we are joined by Kiera Dent, who is the CEO and founder of Dental A Team, a consulting and training company focused on profitability, systems, accountability. culture and leadership in dental practices. Kiera has worked nearly every role inside of a practice, which is a big part of why her content lands with both owners and teams. So in this episode, we are going to be riffing a little bit about everything and anything that goes into making a practice smarter, scaling from a leadership, bonding. We're going to talk a little bit about AI and efficiency. And so stick around. This is a good one. Kiera. Welcome to The Extraction. How are you? Amazing guys. Thank you so much for having me. I've been super pumped to get on the podcast. Definitely a big fan over here. Excited to just rift on all things dental. I mean, my last name is Dent. So it's definitely my cup of tea here and excited to be with you guys today. So thanks for the warm welcome. Absolutely. And thank you again for taking the time to join us. I know you're super busy and congrats on all the success you've had building dental. A team. One of the first questions I love to ask is what brought you to the dental industry? Not necessarily something that people grow up aspiring to be back when we want to be firefighters, astronauts or Olympians, but what brought you into it? Curious. mean, great question. It's funny. I remember in first grade, my teacher, Mrs. Larson had us like right out where we wanted to be. You guys, I have gone all over the map. I went from being like, I wanted to be a hotel cleaner. That was a big dream of mine. I was like, I want to be a hotel. cleaner mom, like it's gonna be amazing to wanting to be a vet. I don't even really like animals. Like you can judge me harshly right now. And I was like, vet all the way up to I wanted to have, I wanted to break the world record and have 99 kids because I was like, listen, and then I'll just have like, I had already thought in processes at that point in my life. Like if I just like meet with them like one day a year, I could see each of them three times a year to then being like, listen, I just want to like wear scrubs for my life. And so was either like be a nurse and learn the whole body or be a dental assistant and just learn the mouth. So that's actually what got me into dentistry was the desire to wear scrubs. Also, I became varsity tennis player, not because I love varsity, I just wanted to wear the cute skirt. Like that was really my motive in life. So I clearly am like a mixed bag over here of why I got here. But I actually then got into dental assisting. It was very fun, loved it. And then I went to college and I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do. I settled on wanting to be a marriage and family therapist. And I remember I was sitting in my interview, I was in Oklahoma and I was interviewing to get my degree and master's get accepted to school. They asked me questions and I was thinking about my patients back at the dental office. And it was a, I call these like the pivotal moments where I sat there and was like, Keara, do you really want to be a marriage and family therapist? The fact that you're sitting in this interview, you've worked hard. mean, passing the GRE is freaking hard. So like even to get there, I was like, do you actually want to be this marriage and family therapist? And it was a moment where I was like, I think I actually absolutely love dentistry and that's where I'm meant to be and what I love to do. And then you fast forward a little bit further and now we're in consulting and I feel like I've been able to blend my love of the marriage and family therapy, of the love of people and wanting to solve problems, but I get to do it in a space of dentistry that I feel is just magical to change lives. So that's kind of my like roundabout random story of going from hotel cleaner to veterinarian to becoming a dental consultant. And I feel like I really did that like sweet landing of a space that I'm obsessed with of helping people. And I say, dentistry is my platform, life is my passion, and to be able to bring that to the table is very fun. Kiera, that makes so much sense that you married those two because I watched your video on your website, and I've been a dentist for a while, and you you hit it out of the park. As soon as I watched it, I'm like, yes, it's really hard. Yes, you love it, but yes, you're trying, you always have, I always say like you have one wheel off the wagon and you're always trying to get it back together. that you were in counseling and yeah, you got it. Thank you. In our research of looking at what you've done, Kiera, I see a lot of similarities in your leadership style along with Dr. Sharon's here. One of my favorite all time quotes from any human is when Dr. Sharon said, you know why I'm a good dentist and a good manager and a good owner, Kyle? It's because I raised four kids. It's because I was a mother. Because I was a mom first. You talk a lot about accountability without drama. Noble Dentistry, our in-house brand underneath TeamCare, is run equal parts Iron Fist and a lot of empathy. Everyone there, it's an excellent practice. 14 operatories, seven associate doctors, millions of dollars a year. It got there under the leadership of Dr. Sharon and the incredible technology that builds Power's TeamCare. But Dr. Sharon lives and breathes set every day, accountability without drama, being direct with people, having meaningful conversations. What in your experience does that actually look like in a real office? Yeah, well, mean, Dr. Sharon, I love your story and I love what you've built. I think like powerhouse and that is not an easy feat. with physically my body's been, think, in over 300 dental practices in the course of my career. Our team, think, has physically been in over a thousand. So like... To say that I've seen a few dental practices in my time is not a lie. And to see people that are able to grow to the magnitude that you've been able to is something that I think there are, there are traits, there are characteristics, there are pieces. And it was interesting because I think like one, you're an insane example and everybody listening, like kudos because you've got a great example. Dr. Sharon, I'm freaking proud of you and I love what you've built and I love what you've created and. Everybody listening is really lucky to be able to hear your successes and to learn from you. The second thing I want to say is we had an in-person mastermind with our doctors and we bring them all together and it was something I did not want to do. Like literally I was like, I'm not doing masterminds guys, like everybody does masterminds and our doctors like, Kiera, please bring us together. And I'm like, listen, this is not my cup of tea. Like I'm a girl who loves to be on stage, but then I definitely love to just like shut it off and not be on stage anymore. Events, feel like they just linger longer forever. So I am the girl who puts on an event and then you don't see me at all. Like it's like a goodbye, wave goodbye to the children, send them on their way. And like, I don't want to see you until the next morning. And, but I noticed in there that when you ask about the questions of accountability and iron fist and different things, there was a moment that I hadn't realized until just two weeks ago. And I've even watched myself, we're 10 years into the company now. And I think that there's an evolution of leadership. And I think Dr. Sharon, you'd probably agree to this that. I think there's the firefighter stage when you first start and you're like bros and gals with your team. And you're really in this like, I want to be best friends. And I actually think it blurs the lines of accountability really hard for these new owners, but they want to keep the team and they want to have good vibes. Like I was talking to a tennis the other day and she's like, I just love my practice. She's three months in Dr. Sharon. So we know she's still in like the honeymoon phase. And she's like, I just love my team and they're so great. And we just like all have the best thing and we hang out all the time. And it's just great vibes. And I thought, honey, I'm so freaking pumped for you to experience. It's Sharon's laughing. She's like, you get it, you have it, you understand. I think that as you evolve, you start to recognize, and I said this quote the other day to a dentist, said, there will be points in your career that you are loved, there will be points in your career that you are hated, but I hope where you actually land is respected. And I think when you can have the filter of, how can I be a respected team leader? How can I be a respected CEO? You start to make decisions of accountability that are firm, that are fair, that are consistent. And that is what teams ultimately are looking for. They're not looking for you to be best friends. Surprise, like spoiler, bosses aren't their best friends. Like that's not what we're here to do. Our job is to be that leader, to be that coach, to be that mentor, to be the person who sets the standards, to set the stage. And standards are what we tolerate, not what we say. And so when I look at accountability and I look at teams, I think that there is a progression. And I think for leaders to realize like you don't just show up out of the box as a great leader. It is a progression and it's an overview of that. But I do think the consistency piece and also making decisions that are in the best interest of the business, not in the best interest for you or for your team, I think becomes a North Star that helps you have stronger accountability. And I will say like, you can't have accountability without consistency. So if you're not solid on the consistency, get someone paired with you. that consistently drive those results forward for you, because those are gonna be some of the most key critical pieces that I've seen that really separate the successful easy practices versus those that are just scrapping by and trying to get to the next level, but feeling like they can't get out of their rut. And I'm like, you can't because we're not consistent, we're not accountable, and we're not holding the true North Star of what the practice ultimately needs, not what you want to do to be liked. And I hope that landed with love, not sharpness. No, no. Like that's damn, that's like spot on. That's what Kyle's kind of saying. Kyle has three children. He is an entrepreneur. has multiple businesses and he's a big part of a TeamCare. But we talk all the time. He has three children under two. Three, three, three under three you recommend that Kyle? We're an IVF right now and we have three embryos. And people, I've been asking people like, so do I just go for like the shop approach? Like you just like. three like one after another like I could have three surrogates at the same time like we have to realize I have like different atmosphere over here or would you like space it out so hearing like 303 would you recommend it? Just curious asking for a friend here. Okay so I have twin boys that are about two and a half years old and a nine month old baby girl and I think it's good to do it all at once because I have a friend who has a seven year old and a four year old and his wife's pregnant and the look on his face that's It's devastating. I'm praying for David out there. Yeah, just go for it. Go for it, Kiera. Do triplets. Let's go. My first thing was, I was like, listen, guys, I'm a business person over here. Can I do like a three for one deal? Circuits are not cheap, nor should they be like they're donating their body for me. And I'm so grateful. But I was like, can I do a three for one deal? And they were like, well, your rates go down. like your success rates. And I was like, all right, we'll do like three, but just get, okay, anyway, back to you're an entrepreneur, you're three. I do think Kyle's right, because like I always look at it like my kids, I had four in six years, you want to go to Disney World once. You don't want to go every three years. And you're to go once. But that aside, honestly, I feel exactly as you do. And that's why I kind of said to Kyle about treating everyone there. Absolutely the business is first, very open, very honest. Tell someone immediately when something's not going right, correct it and it's over. And that's it. it's much, you know, what do they say raising kids? Seven words of praise for everyone. Negative. ⁓ Truth. It's truth in any part of your life. And, you know, I do love your name too. And I want to talk about that a little, like that you wrote Dental A Team, because one of the big things on all my ads say players want to play with A players. And once you drop that level, your whole team goes down. Once there's one person sitting at the front desk or in the back or anywhere who's not pulling their weight, everyone knows it. So how, when you go into a practice, are you addressing that to the doctor, to the team? Like, where do you go when you're finding these? You're seeing it straight out where sometimes, docs sometimes live in fear of their staff. Yeah. No, ⁓ you're right, Sharon. And I say the best gift I think I can give an owner is to be unshackled from feeling like they have to keep team if they don't want to. I'm not here to, consultants get a bad rep because we go and we're like. fire everybody and that's not my world. I don't believe in that being a team member myself, being a business owner, the greatest cost to a business is actually turnover. Like it's a huge, like the human capital expense is very large and for good reason. But when I look at that, you're not wrong. Someone was talking to me, they talked about like the NFL, like pick whatever sport analogy you enjoy, but they're like, they don't go pick when they're going through draft season, they're not picking the like BCDs for good costs. They're like, we're going for A because we want to win. and every person on there is the top 1%. And if they even drop and they're not doing it their best, they get cut. And it's just cutthroat there. But that's how you get winning championship teams. And I think a lot of times in dental practices or in business, that's not as cutthroat, it's not as viewed in the world, like on the spotlight of the TV. I think we do sometimes settle because we're so afraid. And to me, I'm like, gosh, it goes back to marriage and family therapy. Let's go back there. I had a professor and they said in dating, and gosh, you guys are gonna love me or hate me. I have found that this is true, so I hope it's a love. ⁓ Thanks, Kyle. He said, in dating, there's always someone just as good, if not better out there. And you might hate that because it could be a tender swinder. You could just keep swiping for the rest of your life, always thinking there's someone better out there. So use that with caution. But I do think that it's real. There is always someone better. At some point, you just accept, like, my husband, I freaking love him. I got a great last name from it, so that was a win for me. I look at this and I just think there are always going to be better people out there. And I think sometimes you do need to elevate a team and you need to upgrade a team. And that is not wrong. And so when I go in and I work with teams, first and foremost, doctors, let's make sure that we got a clear vision. It is wild. If you do not have a clear vision that every single person is going towards. And people think that this is rah rah puff and I'm such a tactical girl, but if they don't know where they're even going, like we don't even know the lighthouse on the thing. We've all got different rowing and you're just gonna feel like mayhem. People are like, my team is not bought in. And I'm like, cool, what's your vision? If I walked in, could every person tell me today, where are we headed in one year, three years, 10 years? If it is not so crystal clear that every person can do it, that's step one. Because that might even be half of the issue to get our A players up to A players. Like, they don't even know what the scoreboard is. Are we playing basketball, golf, football? Like there's different rules, depending upon where we're headed. And so getting your whole team aligned on that is number one. Then number two, I love this litmus test and mine is if I had a chance to rehire all these people today, would I rehire them? And that is sometimes the zone that I don't want to go in and face, but I think that that's the core heart where we know and we often don't want to do that. Now, if you're like not into that and you're like going to sit here and justify that I've got another one for you to get even more tactical. Grab your core values and go through it and rank that person. Do not lie to me. Keep this paper hidden. You can burn it afterwards, but be honest with it. put your core values out there and rate each person. And if they are not striking you at tens across the board, it's time to move on or it's time to elevate up. I think when people recognize, like I got a doctor, she's in Virginia Beach, she can't find a hygienist, but they had a hygienist who was just tearing them all down. They let them go and we're in like hygiene, like starvation right now. Like I understand that is a hard position to want to quit and like get rid of. They cut this person, it's been six months and the team is so much happier. And I think When you live that and you see it, you stop tolerating. It's like, do not lower your standards for excellence to meet people's need for mediocrity. And I think if you can hold that line and realize that's what you are, you're here to win championships, you're not here to win friends, but by winning championships and being respected, you win friends along the way. It's this crazy piece. A players, you like to play with A players and the worst thing you can do to your A players is tolerate the behavior of your lower people. So I think when I am making a decision as a CEO, I have to remember my A players are watching me to see what I'm doing. And that's the motivation for me to make the decisions that ultimately are best for the business, not the ones that are easy. Awesome. And you're right. And that's where the respect comes in. You know, if the leader is working from fear, know, no one's good. I think that a lot of times docs ⁓ are, you know, falling over dollars to pick up pennies. Like you pay a little more, you're getting that better person. We pay very well and I don't have a problem hiring at any position. You know, but I got great people, they're rock stars. They put me to shame, the stuff that they can do from hygiene to anywhere, front desk, they're smart people. But Kiera, what you said actually, really, I'm going to do a screen share right now. You haven't done a screen share in a couple of episodes and I'm going to show, I'm going to show a dashboard on TeamCare that you are to love. And I think this will also be a nice segue into hearing how you're using. technologies, specifically AI in managing, because it can be certainly a balance. But what I'm going to show you from an A-Team stamp is the leaderboards that we ⁓ intelligently produce these update in real time every day. We're looking at a practice here. I've anonymized the data, but we're looking at the high hygienist productivity so far for March. And we can see how many patients, and by the way, the beautiful thing about this, is that not only can the practice owners and managers see this, but every single one of these team members, these hygienists can see what their patient per average day is, what their pre-appointment rate is, how much they're presenting for treatment, how many reactivation calls. We can see this for doctors. So Dr. Sharon is so good at going in and saying, hey, this guy, know, lot of production, but his production per exam is actually not as good as some of these other folks. So is there an opportunity to coach him on his bedside manner or are these, you know, and this is actually noble dentistry. So this is our in-house and part of the reason they're so good is because everyone there, this is a depth chart. Everyone wants to be a starter. Everyone wants to make the pro goal. And so when you're able to show this type of visibility, some practices don't like this because, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. This is not youth soccer, not everyone getting a participation trophy. And so you can see where you stand. ⁓ So this is a a part of TeamCare that it feels like really aligns with your values and how you lead. 1000 % Kyle. And I love that you brought this up because I am pro EOS traction, Gina Wickman, which this is very much in a line with that. ⁓ coach generally teams version of that. And the bottom line is numbers don't lie and numbers make these conversations easy. And when you look at this, as a team, we can't hide. There is zero hiding in there to see like. All right, well, ⁓ you know, I just was busy. Everybody's busy. Like, where do we hide in this scenario? And it's either I'm gonna rise up or rise out and both are great options. And I think when you recognize that, because you're right, like even watching Dr. Sharon, if you look at her, if you guys didn't see the video, she's sitting back and there's a calm collected confidence about her that she knows that what she's put into place, these people want to be there. And the leaderboard shows that. And I think when you... When you obsess about data and numbers, you can sit back like Dr. Sharon and have the confidence because you know that people can't hide. mean, guys, Kiera Dent is a human. Like I love people. I love to make people feel good. But at the end of the day, feelings only go so far and results will sustain. And I think when I look at it, I'm like, am I feeding my family or am I just fishing for a day? Like I've got to take care of. Like it's one or the other. mean, they're going to make people happy, make my life miserable, or we're going to like look at the numbers and we're all going to win and we're all going to be happy. Like what is it going to be? And I think, I think when again, this is an evolution of maturity of CEOs and owners of businesses, you hit this, I feel like there's a threshold that you hit and it comes and everybody gets it at a different time, but you hit a level where it's like, data is a numbers matter more than people's feelings and us being on a winning team and me recognizing or like, shoot, you can take, I've had people take. Second, mortgages out on their homes to keep paying people that don't want to be accountable. And I'm like, that is a choice that you're willing to make. There are multiple choices in life to make, but Dr. Sharon Sugarhead and for me, I don't lose money and that's my standard. I also don't tolerate people that don't want to be on my winning team, but I used to not be that way. 2020, I felt like I was Johnny Depp in the middle of the ocean. I was on a freaking burning boat, hoping and praying something else was coming. Like my team was rash. Like we were really struggling. And I think you have to go through that to... to realize, or you listen to podcasts like this and you don't have to learn through it, use the numbers. You're exactly right. There is no hiding. Use the numbers, use the metrics. Numbers are your best friend. They're the vitals to your practice. And if you want to know if you're sick, you get your vitals. If you want to know if you're practice sick, look at the vitals of the practice and then make decisions accordingly. And it's like every once in a while, it's not often, but if things are going really bad with a group, with FDs or assistants or hygiene or whatever, sometimes you got to say to them, right? Get them all together and be like, you know, everyone's replaceable, even me. And you know, sometimes you just, It really reminds everyone that you don't have this job forever. You're not working for the government. know, like this is nothing's going to keep you here. I'll tell you what I really, really want to hear about your systems about, think like that's the number one thing. And I think docs are horrible at it. We were just dentists and systems is what makes a real business run. And it's, I think it's the hardest thing to put in place. And Dr. Jaren, thank you for that. And shout out to you guys, the software. I just want to go back to that. didn't like. if you don't have that, it. It will be game changing in your practice. I feel like it's like AI, right? Like you guys put Pearl overlay or whatever you want over Jet and it helps like diagnose. To me, your guys' software is how you diagnose the problems in your practice without having the emotional baggage that comes along with it. So just like wanted to do a plug there for you guys, because I really am impressed with what you've created. As far as systems, Dr. Sharon, I actually feel systems are easy and I know that that's like going to be contrary. The reason I think number like systems are easy is because if you have the vision, I call it the yes model in our company. So we focus on you as a dentist. Your business should serve your life and not the other way around. And I'm very pro all of us on here are business owners and we know that I can either work my booty off for my business or I can get my business to work for myself and both are available. It just depends on which route you want to go. And so I'm very pro let's have the business work for you. So that stands for why for you you're number one. And if we don't take care of you first, the whole business will crumble. So like we've got to take care of you. Second is E, it stands for earnings. So exactly like you talked about the leaderboard, the numbers, the metrics, and then S stands for systems and team development. And I put this together purposely in this order so you can say yes to more in your life, but I use systems third because I think so many people, Dr. Sharon, your point, they wanna go attack the systems, but they're missing the top two. And when I put the top two in place, the systems actually come after. Like what my numbers are telling me, tell me where my systems need to be implemented. No team wants to go through a whole systems overhaul. Like I've done this a lot. No team's super thrilled. like, hey guys, I heard this great podcast. Let's implement these systems. Why are we implementing the systems and what result am I ultimately trying to get? I am big on outcomes over activity. What's the outcome we're looking for? And then let's put activity into place. And I don't disagree with you. Systems feel so daunting because there's a system upon a system upon a system upon a system. Like it never ends. It's like the Winchester mansion. Like they just go forever and you cannot escape it. And so when I think about it, I think that that's where it feels daunting. But I will say, that there are core foundational systems that I put into place. And you're exactly right. Like we can't just be like, I've got a great vision and my numbers look good. Well, like the systems have got to be there. And so I don't disagree with you that systems are daunting. And so we actually created like 12 systems because I like cadences. I like it to be easy for people to memorize. Like what do need to focus on in January and February and March? So my practice can always be refining because systems are a refinement and an optimization, not a set like one and done. So I'm big on like operations, right? Like let's look to see where we're broken. Like what are easy core systems we can put into place? Hygiene, hygiene needs to be producing. 30 % of our practice is a great baseline and they should be producing three times their pay. Everyone's like, what? They're so expensive right now. I get that. It's like, let's get innovative, let's get creative. We maybe can't quite get there, but let's at least set a good baseline and see what we're producing and how we can get there. So then we need to put our hygiene protocols into place. We need to make sure our hygienists are good to go. We need to make sure our hygiene exams are solid. Easy systems that are going to impact numbers. Then I'm gonna move to my front office. How do we schedule? Like doctors, if you're not getting out on time. That's a fantastic system for us to go attack. If we're not producing enough, like let's go after block schedules, but I don't want you to just block schedule for the sake of block scheduling because you heard it on a podcast. Like what do you need to make? What did the numbers tell you? And then let's make sure we can actually build a productive schedule that will get you to that number. And I think when you put systems into place, that makes sense. Like when I go to Chick-fil-A, they've got like the salad thing up there. Like you put three things in and two things a lot of like, whatever it is, that makes sense because I'm going to make a whole salad at the end. But if they're just like, Do some lettuce and some, teams need to understand why we're doing systems. And so I'm very core on what are the core systems that a practice needs to have. It usually falls under my hygiene department, making sure my doctors and our procedures are there, front office scheduling, our billing, please for the love of everything, holy collect the money. Like just collect the money. We are not back in the 1800s. You do not need to put it on a tab, collect the money. Like it is here. We need to collect money. Like what are the things that are gonna burn you? And then like our ordering needs a system. things that are going to help and protect cashflow, things that are gonna help and protect patient experience. But like, I don't disagree with you, Dr. Sharon. I know I said like, I think systems are easy, but I think it just feels like there's so many things that we could do. But I feel like in systemization, less is more, more simple, one page documents rather than 20 page documents. And then we just realized we're refining based on what the numbers tell us, what our main pain point stressors are in the business that ultimately get us to the W on the scoreboard. That's how I'd implement systems. Amen. And if you... are listening to this right now and you're saying, man, I need all of Kiera's systems. That sounds incredible. Well, lucky for you on April 24th, Kiera and the Dental A Team are holding a virtual summit. And even luckier for you is that you can use code Extraction50 for 50 % off your ticket. It's going to be about four and a half hours, three hours of which will be continuing ed where you can learn about these systems. It's an incredible value. And we will have a link in the show notes where you can join. So Kiera, thank you so much for that generous code. If you're listening and look what I love about Kiera is Kiera you're spicy. There's people that are like, I don't want to, I don't like the way she talks and I don't believe in her, but there's going to be other people that are like, yes, I need a tiger mom like this in my life to help me move the needle. So I like it. I don't know. Dr. Sharon does it. See you guys are sisters from other misters. Kyle, thank you for that. And I did realize, was like, golly, Kiera, you're coming in like, you're hot, you're on it. I've already been podcasting this morning, like I'm in the rhythm. Like was so pumped for this podcast. But I think it comes from a space of, I don't know, the analogy I give is I'm sitting on one side of the river and you're on the other side and you're trying to get across this river. And I'm sitting there as a guide knowing that your pain points and the frustrations that are keeping you up at night, that are causing you to cry, that are telling you that you, that are keeping you from your family. Sometimes I believe like, Yes, I'm a consultant. That's what our title is. But I feel like I really sit in a realm of a coach. And I think about coaches of the best teams. They don't like I go to my gym and my gym trainer. She's not like yesterday. She freaking rocked me. I can't even walk like that's why I'm not standing. My calves hurt so bad. And I'm like, she was like, Kiera run harder. And I was like, I'm trying it's so hard right now. Like, but yet sometimes in practice and in business, and this is where I love what we do. Dental A Team is about fun. It's about ease. And it's about giving you a hug of wherever you are with no judgment. And at the same time telling you what no one else will tell you because I don't, I'm not big on consultants that are series and fluff. I'm big on like, what's the tactical, what's the practical because I've hired plenty of coaches in my career that give me a lot of great ideas, but I'm like, yeah, but that idea is not getting me through this incredible moment and opportunity I'm living through that's like making me want to lose my hair. so When you say and like the summit is fun, come and enjoy it. It's a really great time. It's for teens. I don't care. One person in the room, 20 people in room. I don't care. Our job is to positively impact the world of dentistry. And we are actually giving away our entire virtual academy. So all the systems, we've got operations manuals, we've got onboarding things, we've got CE, we've got every single course you could imagine, team training videos, like you name it. like, they told me someone, I was the Dr. Seuss of systems. So like it's there and it's free. Like just come and like say hello and you can win it. But it's. I really hope that it comes from a space of not a lot of people tell you what needs to happen. A lot of people tell you what you want to hear. And I think as a business owner, I've just gotten tired of that mantra in the industry. And I'm not like, this isn't about any consultant. This is just truly who I am, what I believe. And I'm about results. And I want people to get results. If they're going to spend money, if they're going to spend their time, I want to make sure teams and doctors are getting the results they want. But at the same time, you talk to any team that works with us and they absolutely love us. We get texts every single time, like, we love you guys. We have so much fun when you come in. because I think we get the seat. We understand the doctor's perspective and we understand the team's perspective. I'm going to talk to a team. I'm not going to be like spicing up. It's like, perfect. Let's talk about block scheduling. Had an office manager the other day. She did not want to be doing any like, my gosh, the doctors are out of town. They're not hitting goals. We were negative 20 last month. They were positive. So we talked to the office manager and I'm like, Hey, it's like, let's talk about this. And she's like, my team's doing so good. And I was like, that's amazing. I'm so proud of that. let's talk about like what numbers we need to have. Like, did you know that like last month we were negative 20? And she's like, I had no idea. And I was like, okay, great. Like as an office manager, would this help you to be like in your role and to do really well in your role? And she was like, oh my gosh, it helped me so much. So we went through and it's a very gentle, like let's walk you through and how many patients do we have? Like they have 1900 patients that are active and we need 2,800 active patients. And I was like, all right. Well, like, and she's like, Kiera, what do I do? And so that's when you open the door and it's not coming in with a harsh judgment, just like it's no harsh judgment on any office. It's more a, here's the problem. Like we have 1900 and we need 2800. If you don't want to ask me and you want to go figure that out, phenomenal, go do that. I have no problem. There is zero ego, but typically people want to know how do I get across this river? And you've been there, you've done it you've done it successfully many times over. What are the tips? And what was amazing is we've She ran some reports, she found some reactivation, she found 800 patients and so she's freaking lit up. She's taken it to the team. They've got simple little steps that are not going to be hard. And she's driving that. We make her look like the million dollar rock star for her doctors, but she was able to reach out and have the help. So Kyle, yes, thank you for calling me on the spice. There's some directness, but I think it comes from a space of you hire a consultant for a reason, you expect results, and I believe that you should get those results. Kiera, as our episode comes to a close, I want to, serve you some rapid fire questions. The challenge is to answer them in a sentence or less, even one word if you want. Okay. We're going to do four. first one, one He's like, listen, I actually have 10, but Kiera, you talk way too much. So we're dropping it to four. I got you, Kyle. I see you. I actually had 29. was just saying. Okay. So first one, one metric every owner should watch weekly. Oh gosh. Weekly, I would say. My first one that comes to mind is I think you need to be watching your overhead. And I understand it's not weekly, so that's why I'm like, but I think if you are not in the habit of watching your money and your profit every single week, you get into hot water very quickly. So if you are tracking that, then I would say my next one is I would say your diagnosis. One system every office should fix this quarter. I would say, I think if you your hygiene perio protocols in place, I think that that's going to grow you in your hygiene department. That's going to grow you faster than any other system can. One piece of technology that you can't live without now that you didn't even know existed a year ago. you talking about me or a dental practice? Either one. All right. Well, dental office, think, well, it's like shameless plug for you guys. Yours for sure. I think that that's an amazing one. The other one I do think like AI for like Pearl or Overjet for your x-rays and diagnosis. I think dental practices need that. For me or like revenue billing. I think those are great ones. For us and our company. a year ago. mean, you're going to judge me. So I'm a little scared to say it, but like Slack has game changed me on so many different levels. And I think, yeah, so that'd be the one that I'd say. I knew it existed though, but it's a game changer. Okay, cool. But you didn't implement it. So that's awesome. All right. And last one, one mindset shift that instantly makes a leader more effective. I would say spicy Kiera. I'm juicing my words cautiously, Kyle. ⁓ I think the mindset shift that people need to have is no one's coming to save you and it's time for you to take accountability and get the results you ultimately want rather than blaming, not taking ownership or accountability. And the second you do that, your life will change. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. Check out Kiera and her rockstar team at TheDentalATeam.com. We'll drop the special link. for the virtual summit in the show notes. And I think we will be seeing Kiera back on the podcast at some point. It was a pleasure and an honor and we look forward to staying in touch. Kiera, thank you so much. Thank you guys. I appreciate it a ton. Thank you. Nice meeting you. The Dental A Team (32:47) All right, Dental A Team listeners, that was the guest interview that I absolutely loved. And I hope that if there was one idea that stood out to you, don't just agree with it, but actually go implement it this week. And if you need help setting this up in your practice or you need help just navigating or need a friend, head on over to TheDentalATeam.com and I'll be able to help you guys out. Click on the book of call or any way that we can support and serve you. That's what we're here for. That's what we're obsessed with. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

Does your P&L team cost feel high? Tiff and Dana provide insight on how to reduce your overhead besides scaling back team members. There could be easy solutions, from cleaning up definitions and job descriptions in your ops manual, to facing the numbers when it comes to debt, and many more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello Dental A Team listeners. I am here with you today ⁓ with Dana. Dana, you know, is one of my favorite humans on earth. We are starting our Monday with you guys. And I know it may not be Monday while you're listening to this, but you know these are pre-recorded, these aren't live. That's not a shock to you. So we record these on Mondays and Fridays. And Dana has been so gracious to share her Monday morning with us. Dana, how are you on this beautiful day? DAT-Dana (00:27) I'm doing pretty good. I know I'm loving the weather right now. As you know, I'm like a sunshine lizard, right? So I love the sunshine we're getting right now. And I love some extra tip time on a Monday. It's a great start to the week. The Dental A Team (00:30) beautiful. I agree, I agree. was like, yesterday I was like, oh gosh, what is tomorrow? know, like, because I had prep the week before, I think we all kind of prep, but then Sunday you're like, wait a second though, what was that again? I've had two days to forget what I'm supposed to be doing tomorrow. And I checked, I'm like, oh yeah, podcasting with Dana is gonna be so great. So we're here today with you and Dana, this one's a really fun topic. I know you and I, notoriously, if anyone goes back into the archives and listens to the other 5,000, It feels as though it's been 5,000 podcasts on operations manuals that we've done. That's just Dana's fun girl for that. But today is team related but less about training and kind of operations manually kind of things. And I think it's just a really fun version of a team aspect. And I say that because this is coming at it from a business standpoint. I think you guys all know that Dental A Team focuses on profit. and profitability, but we focus first and foremost on happy people and having a fantastic business that can support your personal life, but then also having a fantastic business that supports an awesome team. And so being team focused and being people focused first, we truly believe that that's what creates a business that's sustainable over a lifetime and gets that profit for you. If we went profit first, not the book, we love the book. If we went profit first and never the people, I think we would just be doing you a disservice. So today is all about how to get profitable, how to be profitable without sacrificing the team. And Dana, I know you and I, I think our whole company is really, really strong in this belief, but you and I specifically very, very strongly believe that treating the team right and not looking at the team for the cuts in the overhead is, that's how we start. So I'm gonna. Just pick your brain some today, Dana. First of all, what are you seeing today? It's 2026, recording this. It's close to the beginning of the year. We're about almost done with Q1, honestly. So I'm flying by, but we're getting towards the end of Q1. But with that, we've had some financials. I don't know why, but in my world, financials are hard to come by this year. I love you CPAs, and I'm just hoping that we can get a little bit better towards Q2. But so far in the financials, what are you starting to see and what did you see out of 2025 with your clients? What kind of trends were you noticing? DAT-Dana (03:14) Yeah, think ⁓ financials, know expenses going up in different areas, a lot of that expense does come from team members. A lot of my conversations right now are like how do I show my team appreciation? How do I create things for my team when it comes to pay increase raises, things like that. ⁓ and still keep my payroll within where it should be. So a lot of team pieces are part of these financial conversations, I think even pretty heavy in 2026. The Dental A Team (03:46) Yeah, totally agree with you. I've seen those same things and towards the end of the year too, was like Christmas bonuses. I know you and I worked, we talked about it. So I know, I know at least you and I did. I'm sure the rest of the team did too, but we talked about it towards the beginning of last year, I think on a podcast of making sure that we were getting our clients prepped to give bonuses. So they're saving some little acorns every month over in a bucket for that. So hopefully it didn't hit them, but it still looks ugly on the PNL no matter what, you pull wherever you're pulling that money from. So. I totally agree. And then I do think wage increases. I mean, if we compare 2018, 2019 to today, drastic difference. And I know, I think in our brains, it doesn't feel like COVID was that long ago. It feels like it was yesterday, but gosh, like 2017, 2018, 2019, those were the years of like dentistry. Dentistry was really doing well for team's sake at least. It was easy to find people. You could pay people whatever you wanted. Like people really worked for their dollar. And then you flash forward now it's been, gosh, almost seven, eight years since that time period. when we, in dentistry, when it comes, and this is just my opinion, when it comes to pay and team pay, I think that we are all still very much stuck in seven, eight years, nine years ago, like time period. And we forget because COVID, the emphasis on COVID and the emphasis on the the world as it is today and all of our, gosh, attention is being so distracted by all of that stuff that it's almost like that time just disappeared. We didn't live that time. so team pay wise, we're still stuck back there, but the inflation and the reality is if you compared 2007 to 2017, You would never pay someone what we were paying in 2007 in 2017. Those, those pays would be so different. But I think we're trying to like transplant that still today of the gold, the golden years, the good old days of what money was back then, forgetting that that much time has elapsed in the middle. And we're just truly not caught up yet in my opinion. So I don't know, Dana, is that just me? Do you feel that that we just like, we lost years. like just forward jumped. DAT-Dana (06:07) Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it was kind of like a time warp and I feel like especially in dentistry because I don't think dentistry hurt a ton as far as what we were able to produce. But I think that there was a big time warp when it came to salary increases and things like that. And I'm talking about that a lot on my calls because you know, yes, is it astounding that we're paying people in the dentistry where what we are right now. But again, I always say look at your area, what is fair for your area, what is competitive for your area because these team members bring value. The Dental A Team (06:13) Yeah. DAT-Dana (06:39) that is associated to the salary that we're looking at and while yes it has made a big jump I think sometimes it's just shocking how specific areas too have seen bigger jumps than others ⁓ but I do feel like we kind of got lost in time there for a while. The Dental A Team (06:55) Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. was having a conversation the other day with someone about dentistry and he is like newly exposed to dentistry and a financial aspect. And I've been in dentistry, you've been in dentistry like it was in high school, right? We've been in dentistry since we were kids and it's kind of just what we know. But watching someone come into dentistry from the outside as an adult, as a professional, as a business person, he's like, this is kind of wild. the way that, and he's like, why don't we just like. focus on quality people paying value for quality people. He's like, I feel like these practices might be able to hire less people to do the job because you're hiring quality people paying them well to do the job instead of hiring two, three people to do one job. that's another tangent. Goes into overhead for sure because I think that that's the space where When you're talking about overhead, when we're looking at P &Ls and we see this 33 % to 35 % marker on team cost, and our standards and dental industry standards across the country still say it should be 28 to 30%, but now we're seeing 33 to 35 % California, it's like 42 % sometimes. That makes, I think, business owners and CPAs and professionals go, wait a second. you're high and you have too many team members or you're too high, you're paying too much. And the reality is for us, like no, there's a missing piece and possibly, I mean, I've scaled back teams before that it's like, gosh, you do have three people doing one job because their jobs are so jumbled. So clearing up definitions and job descriptions go back to our operations manual days. Like clearing those pieces up, I think solves a lot of ⁓ team capacity issues and overpaying, whether you get rid of team members or not, them doing their prospective jobs helps to make them, it's just clearer. We're more effective, there's less overtime, there's more productivity when we're super clear on our position. So that does help, but I've I've cleaned some of that up, but then Dana, when we go in and practices, doctors are like, I'm heavy in my team. Are you? Or can we look somewhere else? where are other areas that where, like, what are your markers? I know what mine are. Like, what are your markers? You look in and you're like, okay, team is there, but where are these other pieces? What are you looking for when you're trying to reduce overhead without touching the team? DAT-Dana (09:32) So usually when I'm looking at that first and foremost, wanna make sure, right, production and collections are healthy. That's the first thing that I look at. Is it just with our team we are under producing, under collecting? ⁓ So that's honestly and truly the first piece that I look at. ⁓ And then I'm looking at anything that isn't a fixed cost. Right anything outside of the team that is something that we can do anything about do we have budgets for CE? Do we have budgets for? Supplies have we negotiated labs so I'm looking at any variable cost in the practice and considering that first because typically when it comes to team like I know I can get them more efficient and I know that likes that's usually what the issue is if I say do you have right people in the right seats? Do you love your team members? Do you have team members that like are really bought in and value the practice and if that answer is yes, then we've just got to find a fish somewhere else. So those are just the heavy hitters that I look at initially. The Dental A Team (10:25) I love what you said there. I do the same thing and it just like lights me up to be able to chat with a doctor, look at a schedule and be like, well, for the hours of operation, you're staffed for the number of hygienists, the number of dental assistants you need for a full schedule, the number of operatories you have, the number of providers that you have for front office, that you are adequately staffed. but your staffing cost is high, that immediately tells me we're not utilizing your schedule correctly, right? Or it's time to drop some insurance companies. Maybe we just need to get your fees higher to accommodate because the reality, Dana, and I think this is exactly what you're saying with right people, right seat, is that no matter whether you're a producing team member or not, meaning hygienist and associate doctor, it's very easy from a business standpoint to be like, yeah, they paid for themselves. My hygienist is at. three to three point times their rate of pay. My associate is making me money, they're paying for themselves, but then you look at a treatment coordinator or a dental assistant and you're like, well, am I over, how do you see that? This is how you see that. People should be paying for themselves and it should be very clear because it should reflect in your overhead and you should be able to say with the right treatment coordinator, my schedule is freaking stellar. With the right billing coordinator, my collections is 98 to 100%. all of the time and so the money that I need, my bare minimum and then some that I need coming into my account is accurately reflected on my P &L from QuickBooks. when you say Dana, the other like fixed, the non-fixed costs, right? So I love that and I think Dana, something that I've noticed that a lot of doctors get stuck on is this, the Anophis Mills, which is wild because these things have been around for like, I don't know, 20 years now, it feels like they've been around for so long, but there's still such an area of they're either really working for you or they're really holding you back still in dentistry, which is crazy to me. But what are you seeing when it comes to that and what are you suggesting doctors do? DAT-Dana (12:16) Are you? you I do feel like that for a lot of practices still just a big source of inefficiency. So I think that it really is like timing things, know what you can side book when it comes to meals, know how long pieces are going to take, know when it is more beneficial to just have the patient come back at a different time. And so I think that's kind of where we struggle, but yet doctors really want to use them because obviously they're paying for them, right? So it's an open expense, but in a lot of offices, it does take time and it is an area where we are The Dental A Team (12:38) Yeah. DAT-Dana (13:02) inefficient and we're just inefficient with the scheduling of it not necessarily the utilizing of it. The Dental A Team (13:08) Absolutely, I completely agree. And I love them because it will reduce lab costs. But I think something actually that I haven't just thought of is, I don't know why I've never thought of this before, something that we don't account for, at least I don't, we account for the debt. So we have, you when we run through your P &Ls and we plug them into our sheet, we've got your true overhead, your top overhead, your pay, your debt services, and then what's remaining is your actual true profit. But Dana, I'm sitting here thinking, well, we're paying monthly on this debt. we're saying where I was, what I was about to say was that it can and will eventually reduce your lab overhead. But realistically, that debt should be accounted in that percentage for the labs. And I've never thought of that before to like accurately reflect the true cost of labs. But I think that we're always finding another layer, you guys. I think that's like another layer that we could really help our. our practices to be able to see what are you truly spending in the labs? And I had a conversation last week with a client. It was actually really fun. It's a husband and wife that I chat with. And we're always talking about their finances. It's very important. We've done a ton of work over the last two and a half, almost three years, to reduce their overhead by legitimately almost 20 % at this point. ⁓ But we've got debt. And he's like, OK, well, we've got to add this. And we've got to this. This is our new BAM. we're like, yeah, we're going through it. And his wife in the background is like, when do we stop just doing more? And she's like, can we pay off some of this debt? And I said, you know, honestly, you've got $11,000 a month going out to debt. If we strategically start paying that down, because they do have profit, so they are saving in buckets. And if we strategically start paying that down, Now that's 11 grand additional every month that you're pouring into buckets. So just like our personal costs, I think we do really well from the third party perspective seeing treat this like you do your personal banking as long as your personal banking is in line, right? Like you're paying off your debt first, kind of like the Dave Ramsey effect, right? Like why are we not Dave Ramseying our businesses? but we're doing it in our personal life, but then it's so easy as a dentist to see the new scanner and be like, well, that's better than the one that I have. I'm almost done paying that one off. So tech, it's like girl math, right? Like I paid for the dog grooming $200, it was worth it. On Saturday with cash that I was supposed to deposit months ago, that was out of, like it was already out of my account, right? Like it was already gone. So I was like, oh, it's basically free. We're doing that with, I said my dog grooming was quote unquote free because it was money I hadn't accounted for anymore. I think we do that with our purchases in dentistry. We're like, well, this scanner's already paid off, or this one's almost paid off. So technically, I'm not really adding. I'm just continuing instead of getting rid of it. And it's like turning in your car when you've just paid it off for a new car because you're used to having a car payment. So that was a long tangent on the lab space. But I think it was all pretty relevant. And I think, Dana, for us, that's a Valid space to be able to say yes, you've decreased your lab costs with the mill and with the scanner But if we add back that debt payment right now your lab percentage is actually at this DAT-Dana (16:32) Yep. Yeah. And I think that that's something like when I'm talking to doctors about purchasing these things or looking at these things, those are honest conversations that we have to have. Okay. You're absolutely right. That will save you on your lab. How many crowns do you have to do to see a savings? Right. And, and are you prepared to do that many? The Dental A Team (16:44) Yes. DAT-Dana (16:49) right? And how do we fit that many in your schedule? And so I think that those are conversations that yeah, like we have to look at those things because honestly, and truly, if we don't do enough crowns to save on our lab space, right? And then, again, it's like then we're talking about team members and it's like, well, we wait, right? Just just wait a second, because we made this decision. So now we just have to get the team to be efficient to hit a number of crowns that we need to actually make it lower. The Dental A Team (17:04) That's just thinking that. DAT-Dana (17:14) lab costs. I think these are conversations that we have routinely with clients. think these aren't always things that dentists in general think about when making those purchases because yeah, they look at the lab savings and they look at the fact that they get to grow what they offer. And these things are exciting. We totally understand that. But I think it is looking at all those pieces and saying also does this make financial sense? The Dental A Team (17:37) Yeah, I totally agree with you. I was thinking too as you're speaking on like efficiencies and how many crowns will it take. Also, we forget how much time does it take from a human. So as we're being efficient with the schedule, you're also losing an assistant to go mill that crown, to go design it and to mill it. So there's like 30 to 45 minutes unless, I mean, there's a lot of practices you can cut it down and they're getting much quicker. So whatever, we'll say 40 minutes that you've lost someone. that would otherwise be able to do the next patient. And that doesn't get accounted for in the employee cost where it's just a shift. It's just a shift. And being able to see all of those pieces and those aspects and make those confident decisions is massive. And then how long will it take to pay those things down at the cost, the fee, the rate that you're paying because realistically that, again, is your lab cost. and you would be paying a lab for sure, but over the long run, is it going to be a big enough savings is a big consideration. And if you already have the mill, start thinking that way. Like, okay, well, what is my true lab cost? then supplies, I mean, everybody knows supplies and we're not in the, I think there was that massive increase, right? COVID with the PPE, like that got wild and we were at like 8%, but I'm starting to see people, like you guys are back down to the five, 6%. So I don't think that that's. huge space but realistically the lab fees, the same doctor, ⁓ sometimes I'm like ⁓ how did we get GP dentists? How are we at a $15,000 lab bill? He's like well I like their work and I'm like so do I and then we need to find something cheaper. DAT-Dana (19:22) ⁓ But yet. Here we are talking about this number every month. The Dental A Team (19:27) Yes, yes, and I said that's fine, then we need a drop insurance company. So I think those are the conversations and it's just so easy to jump to say we're over staffed or we're paying too much money or we're doing too much overtime. When I see practices that have overtime, I'm like, okay, why? One, overtime is more expensive than another human. So are we understaffed and we need to divvy some more things out? And two, Overtime is a huge indicator that we're inefficient somewhere. So it's either our schedule is constantly running behind because we're ineffectively scheduling, or we've got, again, like overlapping duties and just chaos going on when there's confusion in your brain, you're slower. And so when things are clear and clean, you work more effectively, you're more productive, and you move on things faster. Huge spaces, huge spaces, but going back, I think to straight to the beginning, Dana, I love it. The first thing doctors for you to look at is exactly what Dana said. Production and collections, are you producing enough because you need the staffing for the schedule you should have. If you don't have the staffing and the schedule comes first, you're gonna be in overtime. You've gotta have the staffing. I'm not saying go hire a million people because in five years you want this. Make sure you've got enough people to run the schedule that you want. Make sure that you're being productive, that it's getting on the schedule and that on the back end it's getting collected. If you're not getting enough new patients for the production, like all of those things go into it and that's why we make you guys fill out scorecards and watch trends and see it all in one space is because all of those things play a massive role and the first place it's gonna show up on your overhead scorecard is your employee cost. It's just. the truth. That's the first place it's going to pop up and then from there you'll see all of the little ones but it's your biggest expense. DAT-Dana (21:27) Yeah, and I think that what you said is and I talk about this all the time, like especially when we get a doctor that comes in and really is cash flow that is the reason that they come and it's I can slice and dice your P &L a hundred different ways but at the end of the day most of the things that I can slice and dice are low-hanging fruit and the biggest impact that we can make on those overhead costs and those percentages is to produce and collect more. Hands down, bottom line. The Dental A Team (21:51) Yep. Yeah. Which either means more efficient schedule and getting more people on the schedule or raising your fees and dropping insurance companies. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. All right, guys. If you don't know how to read your P &L, by all means, reach out. We have all kinds of, you know, videos and podcasts and all kinds of other things that we can share with you. And we are always happy. DAT-Dana (22:01) Yeah. The Dental A Team (22:19) to help you in the best ways possible. So first and foremost, action item, go read your P &L, go figure it out, go see where your expenses are at, be really familiar with your bank accounts, with your P &Ls, with your debt services, treat it as though it's your personal money, because realistically, you guys, it is. You're a business owner, it is your personal money, so treat it as though it matters. And go look at that, look at your production, and by that we mean is your schedule efficient and actually productive? Do you have 90 to 95 % of the time at the end of the day, you're hitting goal and you're like, that was awesome. Or are you 90 to 95 % of the time, like, what did I do all day? How is this my life? I'm so stressed out. You tell us, go do those two things. Love on your team. Make sure you have right people, right seat. You guys, ⁓ again, a million podcasts to discuss all of that stuff. Go find them. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. We will find them for you and send them to you. You just tell us. Dana, anything else you can think of aside from learning your P &L forwards and backwards, looking at production collections first and then looking deeper and reaching out to us? DAT-Dana (23:26) No, I think you hit all three of the big ones. The Dental A Team (23:29) I love it. Awesome guys. Okay, go do the things you guys. It is way easier than it sounds and it honestly is way more fun than it sounds. I Dana and I have both come full circle on our love of P &Ls and numbers and being able to find the little secret sauces here and there. go do the things, reach out Hello@TheDentalATeam.com when you're ready. We are here to help you forever. We're always here. And you guys drop us a five star review below. Let us know. how this goes for you with your P &L review. Let us know how helpful this was. And again, go love on your team. Dana, thank you so much for being here with me today and we'll catch you next time, guys.

Re-releasing a DAT listener favorite! Chris Sands and Brent Saunier are on the podcast to talk about the hottest topics in the dental accounting world. Founding partners of Pro-Fi 20/20, these dental CPAs chat with Kiera about how to reduce overhead and expand the number of patients coming in, expense metrics from the hundreds of offices Pro-Fi works with, a tax rule you NEED to live by, what to stay away from financially with your business, and a ton more. Pro-Fi 20/20 is an accounting business that the Dental A-Team recommend. This episode is a goldmine of information from two fellows who know what they're talking about — especially with regard to the dental industry. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today we are bringing you something so special. I am so excited because this is one of our most popular episodes from the archives. Whether you're hearing this for the first time or catching it again, I am so excited because it's jam packed with a ton of takeaways that you can start using right now in your practice. We have released thousands, literally thousands of episodes. And I wanted to start bringing a few of these amazing episodes back for you. So I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time. on the Dental A Team podcast. speaker-0 (00:31) today I wanted to bring on two special guests. These are actually CPA in the CPA world. Believe it or not, Dental A Team actually consults this company. So we definitely love them. They went a step above most CPA companies and they really wanted to get to know the ins and outs of the dental world. So I'm super jazzed to bring them on and to just have them dive into some of the hot topics in the accounting world. ⁓ two people that I trust and recommend heavily. ⁓ I They are one of my top three CPA firms that I refer and recommend constantly. So I'm excited to welcome Chris and Brent from Pro-Fi. How are you gentlemen today? speaker-1 (01:06) Awesome, Kiera. Thanks so much for having us. We're excited to be with you. speaker-0 (01:10) Yeah, absolutely. Brent, how are you doing today? speaker-2 (01:12) I am doing great. I appreciate the invite. I'm looking forward to this 30 minutes with you. speaker-0 (01:17) Yeah, absolutely. Well, who knows? We'll see how long this ends up going, guys. Brent, can't put a time on us. It could be dangerous zone. speaker-1 (01:24) You're lucky he said he's doing great because we're in the heat of extended tax season, so he's kind of in the trenches. Lucky he's in a good mood. speaker-0 (01:32) I know Tiffany has been trying to get back out to you guys to see you and Beth you heard this awesome rock star in the company She keeps saying like tiff. It's like extended tax time or it's this or it's that deadline I'm like, my gosh, you guys just have I think you're secretly adrenaline junkies of CPAs even though you don't come across that way But I think you love it cuz tax season I feel is just like adrenaline rush like trying to get to the deadline. I just can't imagine that stress like Every quarter every year you just hit it. So props to you guys. That's not my world but super jazz to have you guys on here. ⁓ so Chris let's dive in I know there's some things so we're gonna kind of hit on overhead we're gonna talk about some taxing some Some things to be aware of i'm just so excited because this is a world I don't know and I do purposely bring really really talented and educated cpas and financial advisors onto the podcast because I'm we have a three-fold approach in our company. It's focusing on Money and finances making sure your business is profitable you as a person and as an individual and then systems and teams top to bottom So I am big I think as a business owner. I wasn't profitable when I first started. I didn't know how to look at my numbers I didn't even know what the heck over influence. I was like googling how to figure it out So i'm just jazzing you guys are here. So Chris kind of take us away I know you had some great topics for today and i'm excited to just Rift a little bit with you, dive into these things, things that are really tangible for our practices now, especially where you guys work with hundreds of offices across the nation. Lots of good data to be pulling out for our practices listening. speaker-1 (03:04) Sure, well, ⁓ Kiera, I think that there's a lot of discussion around, does the DSO world seem to do a better job with overhead than the private practice world? I think a lot of private practice doctors are wondering that, they're frustrated or how do I get my overhead down? And a lot of times, I think when you focus on expenses, you tend to attract expenses. And in our world of accounting, I will often tell doctors that, ⁓ Accounting cannot make you money, it cannot generate revenue. The expenses part is the easy part for us that we can work on trying to reduce some things, but you either have a revenue problem or an expense problem. And in most cases it's actually, you creating enough revenue on your fixed expenses? And most of dentistry doesn't understand how simple that is to scale the dental business model when you look at it from a high level. You scale a business and reduce overhead with doctor production. Okay. And so that means you need enough patients to see the practice that I worked in from my experience was 40 to 60 new patients a month per doctor, per full-time doctor. And it means you need to be reinvesting enough into marketing. And I'll talk about that, that expense or reinvestment of marketing in a minute to get those new patients. And you need to be. monitoring the phones that get answered properly and there's conversion rate of those inbound calls to appointments scheduled. And then the real job is case acceptance. Okay, and so here I am in an accounting firm coming on your podcast and I bet you didn't think I was gonna like be talking about case acceptance. speaker-0 (04:46) was like, wonder we didn't talk about all your time. I'm just kidding. speaker-1 (04:49) So, know, dentistry is really the product that's being delivered. And if you're ethically diagnosing the need and creating the treatment plan, your job is to help the patient understand the urgency and necessity of fixing the problem and paying you to do that work. So your job isn't really the dentistry itself, it's case acceptance. And your first task is to become great at case acceptance yourself as a practicing clinician. But then the real task as the owner is to be able to teach other doctors to become good at it. So I think, you know, the only the only variable overhead that the dental business model has is paying doctors a percentage of the dental collections that they create. And then you have labs and you have supplies. associated with the dentistry that's delivered. those expenses are variable. They track with the amount of dentistry that gets done. Everything else is fixed overhead when you really think about it. Marketing is fixed and it only changes based on your choosing. Your team expenses are fixed and they only change when you hire or fire. Your rent and facility costs are fixed. Your equipment costs are fixed and only changed by your choosing. And the various required admin costs, they're all pretty much fixed. They only change by your choosing. So if you can create more doctor generated collections with the same team and fixed expenses, your profit margin goes up, your percentage overhead, your percentage overhead to collections ratio goes down. Okay. And so I guess we see most private practice or single, should certainly say single location, solo doctor practices. We see them failing at this because they choose not to reinvest enough. back into the business, into that marketing for new patients. They're not monitoring the phones. They're not training their team. They're not training their doctors on case acceptance. And they're too closely focused on just the clinical delivery of the dentistry. Don't get me wrong, that's required, but that's not what makes you successful or financially successful. So I can give you ⁓ some generic ranges for expenses, but the real thing is that You know, the real way to scale a business is to generate more revenue on the same overhead. That's kind of the definition. speaker-0 (07:20) And isn't that basically then probably the DSO model because they have lower fixed costs per se. They've figured out how to have centralized billing, centralized call center, centralized. So many things centralized that they don't need all these different things. So solo practices, if I'm understanding correctly, they've got all the costs associated, but they only have X number of revenue where when you start to add in those multiples of practices, That's where your fixed costs, it's going, yes, of course your fixed costs will increase a bit, but I mean, I do know our fixed costs did not go up that much more when I added our second practice to it because I already have my base of fixed costs there and then we're just able to add more revenue. Is that kind of what you're saying? Am I understanding? speaker-1 (08:01) Yeah, I mean, you know, that, part about centralizing is, know, when you, when you do have multiple locations, I would say three or more, then you can consolidate the amount of team that's working the front desk into one location. Instead of needing three to five team members at the front desk in every office, you may only need three to five team members for all three offices. You're having one of the best things by the way, as kind of an aside, one of the best things that private practices can do as they grow is to get those phones off the front desk. You know, let. speaker-0 (08:20) Right, right. I agree. speaker-1 (08:30) You know, like there needs to be, that needs to be in a totally separate admin space. But, ⁓ you know, I get asked that question a lot. Like my overhead is 65 % and how can I afford to hire another associate doctor and pay them 30 or 35 %? Well, you know, that doctor is going to create new collections. That's the point. It's not to give them your patients. It's to grow the number of patients coming in that, that you as one doctor maybe are stressed. and you hire the next doctor and you've got to continue to invest in the marketing to keep your job as the owner is keep the chairs full, right? As long as the chairs are full, if that associate doctor is ethically diagnosing like you are, if you guys have a ⁓ clinical standard of care in your practice, if you guys talk about how you treatment plan and your treatment planning the same way, that's all required. But here's the real test. You know, how do they connect with people? How do they, how do they, establish a relationship, establish trust and get them to move forward with that treatment. So I think dentists hate to use this word in dentistry, but the job is kind of sales. You know, if you believe in your product of dentistry to solve this need and like, again, if you diagnose decay and they don't get rid of it, you failed. I could go on a tangent on that, but the new doctor will bring new collections and you might have to hire at most, you know, an additional speaker-0 (09:46) Yeah. speaker-1 (09:55) Assistant or two and that would be a new fixed overhead. You would increase your fixed over it slightly But other than that the doctor covers all their costs with their their percentage pay the labs that are associated with it that the supplies are associated with it and You should net somewhere in the ballpark of 40 to 50 percent on the new collections they create and that that just adds to your profit Because all the other fixed overhead stays the same speaker-0 (10:19) So I think there's a few things on there of like, I just, think it's a matter of realizing a lot of people bring on associates though, because they're tired, they want more free time. They don't want to be working as much. And I think it's important to clarify that if that's your model, that's totally fine. Everybody knows on the deadline team, I am not somebody who judges. I think everybody has their own personal path. And so whatever jives with you and resonates with you. So if you're wanting to bring on an associate to have more free time, to not have to produce as much, fantastic, but realize that that overhead might not trickle down because now you're kind of replacing your cost with an associate that you're paying. And some doctors I know don't take as much pay as they would pay an associate per se, which to me, I think is a somewhat failed model. I'm really big on prepping and preparing for that associate, paying yourself as if you were an associate. So you know, these costs before you bring on an associate. ⁓ but I really think it's important to note that because like you're saying that overhead will go down as long as the doctors are producing. And as long you're able to bring on that other doctor and have them produce, cause they should cover themselves. I definitely agree with that. ⁓ also I'm sure people are saying, yeah, but Chris, like in order to bring on another associate, I'm going to have to build out ops. That's a huge cost and expense. So I am curious, what have you guys found in Brent? You might have some answers to this Chris, you might. ⁓ but if an office is having to say, build out two more ops. in their practice to be able to bring on an associate, how long does it usually take when you're doing build outs for that cost to be recouped and start being more profitable? Because oftentimes I do think that that gets into the problem with a lot of doctors is they're constantly building more to bring on these other doctors. So they're always adding more and more expenses. Like when do they ever break even? So what have you guys seen with build outs and different things like that of that break even point? How long should they plan for it to not be as profitable? speaker-1 (12:09) Okay, I'm gonna give you a lot of answers on this. So number one, we use a metric called revenue per chair. So, you know, every, you speaker-0 (12:17) What do recommend? What do you guys recommend per chair? speaker-1 (12:19) So yeah, everyone has a space and you have only a fixed number of spaces or operatories you can have in it. And there's only a fixed amount of time and days and hours and a number of doctors that you have. And revenue per chair capacity, we see a range between 25,000 to 40,000 per chair per month. And it does not matter when you do this. This is just, take collections and divide it by the number of chairs you have. ⁓ This does not matter how many chairs are for hygiene or how many chairs are for dentistry. That's your choice. Actually, you know, there are models where every chair can do everything and the patient never, but the 25 to 40,000 at 35,000 of revenue per chair, you're running fairly efficiently and you're going to need to be planning to expand. You're going to start to run out of space. So that's our metric first and foremost. And so if somebody tells us, well, speaker-0 (12:53) Sure. speaker-1 (13:09) I've got four chairs right now, but I have space for seven. I haven't built out the other three. I tell them, you don't need to build out the other three until you're approaching that $35,000 a month of revenue per chair. Question you asked, how much does it cost and when do you recoup that? So in my experience, typically it's around $25,000 per ⁓ operatory to equip it, assuming it's already plumbed. ⁓ after you just take that number and say, so let's say you were equipping a few operatories, so $50,000, you ⁓ essentially, your cost of the doctor plus the lab and supplies should max out at 50%. Okay, now they have to be producing. So until you get them, they've produced over $100,000. All right, let me do it per chair. They need to do over $50,000 per chair for you to get your costs back. After that, you're in the money. speaker-0 (14:09) which I think is also smart because I don't know. think dentists kind of err on two different sides. Sometimes they're too slow to actually build out. They are so cost conscious and so concerned about that build up, about the cost of the chair, about all the other things that they're missing, that that one chair is going to generate several thousands of dollars of revenue. I've had a few doctors where I'll say, sure, no problem. We'll do a deal. I will happily pay for that one chair and you pay me all. the revenue that comes through from that chair for the next three months. That's all I ask is three months. and I know I'm going to come out way ahead of you because it will generate and it will produce, especially in high producing practices. So I think so often people are just so scared to do those build-outs because they see the cost or they do the flip side where they believe like, if we build it, they will come and they're overly aggressive and they don't have necessarily the patient base or the doctors in play to be able to accommodate that. So I love, I need to agree. It's either cut costs or increase your revenue. Like that's really overhead. speaker-1 (15:12) One more way to think about it is, you know, if they have patients that are having to wait so many weeks or months to schedule out to come in. if you can calculate your collections divided by the number of patients seen for any given time, for year to date or for a full year, you can get your average revenue per patient. Okay. And if you know your average revenue per patient, you know how many either new patients or how many more patients you need to fill that chair to cover the cost. Okay. So if your average revenue per patient was, you know, $1,500 per patient, um, and the cost of that chair is 25,000, just take 25,000 divided by 1500. And that'll tell you how many patients have to be seen in that chair before you pay for that chair. Sure. You're to be in the money, you know, it's in terms of the construction. That's another basically upfront, one time fixed costs that you're going to cover. And then all the future revenue that it's going to generate. So. Maybe if you like, think before we end this topic on overhead, I'll give you kind some of our expense metric. ⁓ speaker-0 (16:18) Sure, yeah, absolutely. Well, hang on, before you go into expense metrics, I want to bring up one piece that I think often gets missed, because you're saying like we're in the money. But I also want to bring up something that I really love to point out, and that is return on emotion. Some people don't want to bring on an associate. Yes, like as a business model, you can be more financially successful with an associate. Yes, you can, having more chairs, more build out, more practices. ⁓ But I also want to point out there is a return on emotion. There are sometimes Bigger headaches, they're also sometimes less headaches with bigger organizations. I personally love to consult larger practices. The pettiness, the cattiness, the smaller drama is way less in larger practices or multiple locations. So like that drastically drops down. They figured it out. They're dialed into systems. But at the same time, I think it's important for people to assess that return on emotion. You might have a dreamy life. You might be doing exactly what you want and sure you could produce more. But if you're off work at say two or three o'clock every day and you work two or three days a week and you're shelling and seven fifty to a million in profit, not a bad lifestyle. So I think it's also important to assess like what you ultimately want and what your return on emotion is before just saying like, I'm going to build because this is the way to do it. I think if you're looking at your practices as a business model, which I personally think a lot of us should look at it that way, ⁓ just to see what you what you ultimately want, what's your end game. And that's also where I love financial advisors of Like what is your total term? Like where do you want to get? Does it make sense to grow? Does it make sense to stay where I'm at? ⁓ I think oftentimes we, we forget that return on emotion and how that is. We always think of like return on investment, but what does that return on emotion too? So just want to put a plug of like, I think everyone's on their own path, their own journey. Definitely agree. There are lots of ways that you can be insanely profitable and having multiple practices is a great, great, great business play. And you're able to help more practices. I'm all in favor. You're gonna have multiple locations. Make sure you're doing awesome dentistry because sure, it can be very lucrative. Just be ethical because I think that plays out long-term. So Chris, with that, what are some of the metrics you guys look at? Because I agree, I love to hear people's metrics. I think we're pretty closely aligned with you guys on metrics, which is another reason I really love working with you guys and your clients. speaker-1 (18:32) So I think if you ⁓ were to survey the Academy of dental CPAs and all of their, what you see them put out statistically, they're gonna tell you the metric of one to 2 % for marketing. When you go and you immerse yourself in the DSO world and their conferences and get to know what they're doing, you're gonna see more of an average of six to 8 % reinvestment into marketing. DSOs have a harder time with retention. They have more patients going out the back door. Private practices. degraded retention, but they don't often invite enough people to the party. So we don't go by the one to 2 % number. think that's an area where people try to, they're trying to keep costs down. You know, your business is the greatest asset that you own that provides the greatest return and you have the most control over. So you should be reinvesting in it more than you reinvest in the stock market or anything else. So our metric for marketing is three to 8%. Private practices, like to see at least three to five. I mean, excuse me, in GP practices, in specialty practices, especially like orthodontics, needs to be on the higher end. Team expenses between 20 to 30%. We certainly try to keep that under 30%. Team expense does not include doctors. Okay. So that's all of your, all of your, uh, your, your entire team, including a hygienist as well, but not doctors, uh, dental supplies somewhere five to nine, five to 10 % labs. speaker-0 (19:36) Yes, absolutely. speaker-1 (19:58) four to 7%. So again, those dental supplies and labs really should not be greater than roughly 15 % total. Rent and facilities, five to 9%. What does that mean? So if you have a high percentage in your rent and facility costs, if your rent facility is let's say nine, 10, 11%, that means you're probably not maximizing the space and getting the collections that is possible there. Again, using that revenue per chair metric. When you're on the lower end, if you have 4 to 5 % rent of facility, means you're running very efficiently. You're probably going to be running out of space and need to expand or potentially relocate or get another location. And then there's general administrative costs somewhere in the range of 4 to 10%, depending on the practice type and what additional folks they have. speaker-0 (20:48) Cool. speaker-1 (20:50) That's it on everything. speaker-0 (20:51) No, I love it so much because I think so often people don't look at their P &Ls and they don't even know what they should be targeting for. It's just like, well, do I have money left over or do I not? And then I don't know. like all of that combined should equal about 50 % there. Is that correct? Those are 50 % and then doctor pays 30 % to give a 20 % profit margin. And then you subtract debt services from that. that kind of your guys' model? That's what I've heard. It's what I typically recommend. speaker-1 (21:18) Roughly. mean, yeah. You know, I, the most ideal is that I think when the average doctor starts to work with us, their profit margin is in the twenties, the 20 % range. our goal is to get them into the forties. Okay. And everyone does chase this like 50 % number, but I will tell you that eventually if you have to scale again, if you have to reinvest, that's the part like you're, drive yourself nuts. Would you rather have, you know, 50 % of 1 million or do you rather have 40 % of 3 million? Right. You know, and that's that. So it's not always just about that overhead percentage. Uh, it is about if you choose to scale and you're, you're buying, you're reinvesting some of your, your overhead percentage, you're reinvesting some of your money to buy back your time. Like you said earlier, okay. Um, whether that's on multiple doctors or not, you know, being a slave to the chair is difficult and high risk to you as a business owner. It's one of the riskiest business models there is. speaker-0 (22:12) Right. I think that that's such a good point. But guys, you don't know, can, Pro-Fi is fantastic. You can reach out to them, have them help you with your PNLs. Also your current CPAs, you can get a chart of accounts and give them these percentages and say, this is where I want it to be. Help me get there, give me some information because a lot of CPAs are not dental specific and they might not know these industry standards. And I agree with you. I also think it's important to think of growth years and also profit years. Some years you are definitely massively. reinvesting into the practice and you might not be sitting at as high of an overhead, but you're doing it with the intent. Like when I bring on new team members, when you bring on new doctors, your overhead is going to go down. It should go down because you are investing and you're growing, but you need those people. This year on Dental A Team is a growth year. I am heavily bringing on new team members. My overhead is not as great as it has been in the past years. But if I, like you said, chase that X number of overhead and never invest in that growth, I can't get to the next level of where I wanna go. So I thought that was really, really helpful. Thank you for that, Chris. And I know now we wanna spin over to Brent. Brent's been hanging out silently over there of some tax things. And I do love that you guys ying and yang on practice metrics because that's what we're all about. And then the tax world that I'm like, here's the thing. Here's my take on taxes. I am so grateful to live in a country where I get to pay taxes to have my own business. Like I truly think that is a massive blessing of the country we live in. With that said, I also think it's my responsibility as a business owner to be as savvy as I can on taxes and not overpay on taxes because I'm just dumb and I'm not actually looking at strategy using smart people beyond myself to do it. So Brent, I'm so jazzed. Talk to us kind of about some tax things that you've been thinking of that your clients are dealing with. speaker-2 (24:00) Yeah, absolutely. So I remember a few early evening calls with you and you're calling and saying help. speaker-0 (24:06) It was in December last year, like literally right before the end of the year. And I was like, Brent, I owe so much dang money in taxes. Any ideas? It's fine, guys. It's fine. speaker-2 (24:19) One of the foundations of Pro-Fi that we built it on is education. So we are very big believers in educating our clients to understand, first and foremost, how do you even generate taxes? So the number of conversations we have with dentists that just don't have a basic understanding is really astounding to me. So we first take an approach of, you have to understand how do you generate income tax? You generate income tax by the salary or W-2 you take. and profit. The key thing here is it does not matter if you take a dollar of that profit out of the business, you still owe tax on the profit. So here, when you're looking at your P &L, let's say a doctor has a half a million dollars of profit and they choose not to take it home and leave it in the business, they will still pay tax on half a million dollars. I had a call today, the exact conversation is like, why didn't take any of the money home? speaker-0 (25:18) It doesn't matter. were profitable brother, sister, like rock on. Happy day for you. speaker-2 (25:23) You know, as Chris was alluding to, if you choose to reinvest in the practice, do marketing or other items like that that are deductible, that will obviously reduce your burden. The second thing, the second biggest mistake is don't underestimate your effective tax rate. So Chris and I have, we call it, I guess the golden rule or the 40 % tax rule. And that is geared towards over-preparing a business owner when it comes time to send in those quarterly estimates. And I'll come back to that one in a minute, but the 40 % tax rule, if you have a pen, I would write that down because that is a rule to live by. And also ask your CPA advisor, whoever they are, whether it's us or your other another CPA, ask them before you make the decisions. So I got a call yesterday from a doctor in South Carolina. He's like, hey, I want to buy a machine that's going to cost me $85,000. My equipment rep said I'd get a 40 % tax deduction. Just about that much. speaker-0 (26:23) That was a clever salesperson. speaker-2 (26:26) Yeah, they all do it. We love equipping reps. No badging equipment reps. But understanding, depending upon your entity type, whether or not you will be able to deduct that in the current year is a huge thing that you have to understand. Chris and I have seen so many doctors over the years that have come to us after the fact. And I think we've done a great job of educating, hey, I bought this equipment, it's $100,000. When we do the tax return, it's like, you're not involved deducted. They're like, why not? The equipment reps that I could. So just make call your advisor before you do it. That's the best thing you can do for yourself. speaker-0 (27:02) Well, and I, to that point, I just say like, you should have experts on your board as a business owner, people that you genuinely trust for taxes. And like you said, ask them, ask your rep about the best products and what they're seeing of results within the patient's mouth. Cause that's where they're experts. But I'm just going to put a massive plug, like, gosh, the number of dollars I have spent personally, because I didn't ask, If we can save anybody even a couple of grand, like you're welcome. You're welcome. Just ask, ask before you do it. speaker-2 (27:36) Right, absolutely. Then I kind of look at what are some things that you can do to make sure you're not blindsided by that tax surprise? ⁓ One thing we do is we always recommend in your business, you have to run multiple bank accounts. And one of those bank accounts is a tax savings account. Your business should fund and pay for your personal tax bill. So think about like ⁓ grandmother's cash envelope system. create different buckets in the business, move the money out of your OpEx account because, know, like for me, if I have 20 bucks, $20 in cash in my pocket, I'm going to spend it. But if I put it away in the bucket where it's intended, it'll be there when I need it. speaker-1 (28:18) My bucket, right? speaker-0 (28:19) Yes, you can just send them my way this year Chris. It's fine Brent. It's fine I'll take him but Brent I want to speak so highly to that because ⁓ It really does help. I will also put a plug of like have really good financial planners and tax planners with you because I am actually really really good at saving money for taxes What I really get frustrated with is when it comes to December and I have been saving and I have been putting that away ⁓ And then they're like, Kiera, you owe an extra X amount. And I'm like, what the heck? I've even saved this. So that's where I also think it's really pro to have really good CPAs that are that actually no tax. So I am curious. You guys tell me the truth, because I don't know how this works. I'm not a CPA, but I swear every year I get a call December 1st and it's like almost a double what I've already saved for the whole year. And I'm a saver. Like I don't spend a dime in my business. speaker-1 (29:14) call you get all year long, Kiera. speaker-0 (29:16) It's not well, I have a monthly call with them and we even plan for taxes, but this year my quarterly taxes It's okay guys. I'm interviewing new cpas. It's okay. my cpn doesn't listen to the podcast I don't think if so, it's great. We've had a good run for several years But like that's where I get a surprise. Is it common? Should you be getting a surprise call on december 1st? If you've got good tax people, and you've been planning and preparing and putting money aside all year long is that speaker-1 (29:41) As you answer this question for her and I would go over safe harbor estimates, but Kiera to set you up for what Brent's going to say. What happens is somebody tells you a number and you kind of start to operate like a zombie and you're like, okay, I put that number away, put it away and you did it. And you're like, okay, I put the number where you told me, but at the same time you're trying to grow your business. speaker-0 (30:06) To that point though Chris I'm gonna like back on this because I think I'm actually a really smart business owner But every freaking year this happens. I'm trying to fix this and hopefully someone speaker-1 (30:15) I think it has to do with your growth. speaker-0 (30:18) I overestimated what my growth would be this year. So I said I was going to be double what I was last year and we're coming in at about a 70 % growth of what I was last year. So I gave my CPA a 30 % extra window to project on me and we're still coming up a hundred, I'll say a different number, but I'm coming up more than I had saved. almost three times as much as they had saved for me. cause I get burned every single year. So I'm like a squirrel with nuts and I put away for tax savings in my company because I never know what I'm going to owe. And it scares me. So with that said, I agree with growth. If you can, if you can project where you're going to go and you're having consistent quarterly meetings with your CPA, is it common to still have a massive like uptick in December? I would ask. speaker-1 (31:04) No, it's not. So look, to keep it simple, like, you know, I'm kind of talking on the managerial accounting side of things and Brent's talking on the tax side of things. If you're meeting with that accountant and you look at that bottom line profit, okay, you owe 40 % of that profit, whether you took it home or not. And then if you made any estimated tax payments, you can subtract those tax payments from that 40%. Okay. ⁓ And then you can apply some deductions and maybe bring the number down. speaker-0 (31:24) Agreed. I'm asking for a friend hashtag myself right now I mean I get better every year around taxes because I hate the surprise and I think most people do but I also wanted to point out I'm like I think I'm pretty savvy with business I talked to a ton of CPAs like this isn't like my first day running a business So and I'm happy to hear and with that 40 % So here's another thing that I've also which maybe I'm just dumb Maybe I'm just coming around the block to this so you guys can tell me ⁓ but it's 40 % of the profit correct like And that profit also includes my W-2 as a business owner. So I've got to like... speaker-1 (32:10) That profit is after your W-2. Hopefully your W-2, you have normal withholdings. Sure. you're like zero or one, you can kind of pretty much say, hopefully the federal and state taxes are all withheld from that for you. Right. have to worry about it. Okay. It's the profit that's left over after your W-2 and all the other expenses of the business you have 40 % on. So Brent, tell her about what happens at the beginning of the year. When we talk, they those first estimates. think everybody starts to like, they get glued to the estimates and they never update them. speaker-2 (32:41) Yeah, so a couple things. So, Kiera, speaker-0 (32:45) Call you in December, Brent. We're going to have this conversation in year two. speaker-2 (32:49) Maybe we should start in January for next. speaker-0 (32:51) I like that strategy is much better. I'm like I've even I started my tax meetings in July this year guys Like this is how much I'm paranoid and I'm like they're just shelling a ton on me again And I'm like how does it happen every year? I don't I don't understand so speaker-2 (33:05) Here's a trend I noticed over the last four years. you know, there was in 2017, there was the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which changed the tax code. also changed. There's also been changes to the payroll tax tables. So I would take UW2, look at your federal tax withheld and divide that by your taxable wages in box one. More than likely, it's going to be in the 10 to 12 % range. If you were in the 40 % tax bracket, you're already 30 % short on your taxes. Let's say you pay yourself $100,000. If you're 30 % short, that's a five digit dollar. So that's where I'd first start. And that is very, very, very common. You will not see any withholding in a W-2 being over 25 % unless you manually requested that from the payroll company. speaker-0 (33:39) Right. speaker-2 (34:01) bonuses or automatically taxed at 25%, but your regular payroll is probably in the 10 to 12 % range. So that's one reason it's happened. What Crystal's talking about, so let's say that we prepare your return in April. So let's say your 2020 return and every accountant will do what's called a safe harbor tax estimate, which basically says your estimates will be 110 % of your prior year tax. speaker-1 (34:30) The IRS wants you to put 10 % more than last year away, like pay them in advance. They like you to do it quarterly because collecting money once a year is a bad business model. speaker-0 (34:40) And it's a bad business model. speaker-2 (34:42) So like Chris said, when a client gets those estimates, and let's say they're $25,000 a quarter, they are fixed on $25,000 a quarter. So what we do is with all of our clients in June and early July, we actually run tax projections or mock tax returns the upcoming year. We pull their year to date profit, we get all their deductions and we project out if that original safe harbor estimate has changed. Then we do it again in November and early December to make sure that you're still on track and also looking for additional ⁓ tax strategies. But to answer your question from earlier, should you be surprised with a big number? No, not if you're doing proper planning. speaker-0 (35:30) with like a little variance, but I just want to point that out because I think so many business owners get scared of taxes and this year, don't worry guys, it's on my vision board by the age of 36. I will be a tax expert. I look at it every single night. I have no desire to be a CPA, but I really think it's important as business owners to educate yourself on taxes and like you said to plan and to save for it because otherwise it's just this always surprise bill that creates stress. For me as a business owner, I know often I just feel like I don't dare spend money because I'm gonna get hit with this big unknown. And so I'm like this girl, I literally have four tax savings accounts in my business right now. And they're in like four different business accounts, so my CPA can't see them all. Because I'm like, you come to me every year with this huge surprise and every year it's like double what I thought you were gonna say. And like I'm grateful to be very successful in what we do. However, I don't think business owners should be surprised, especially if you have a good CPA. So I just wanted to like find out like, that normal? I feel like I'm on the anomaly, but good to know on that. speaker-1 (36:33) Tax surprises cause cash flow problems. speaker-2 (36:39) So Kiera, let me quantify that one of speaker-0 (36:41) Guys, don't worry. Everyone on the podcast, this is a Cura therapy session. You're welcome to be attending this. So we're glad. speaker-2 (36:48) So can there be a tax surprise? Yes. The reason the tax price might happen is if you told your CPA, hey, I'm going to be doing these improvements and they're going to be done by December 31st. If in December you tell them, well, it didn't work out and I'm not going to have all these expenses. And yes, you're going to, you're going to get a surprise because you didn't, your plan didn't follow through. The other thing is talking about the separate tax account in the business. It's, speaker-0 (37:12) That's fair. speaker-2 (37:18) Absolutely recommended, but the most important part is you cannot spend it on anything but your tax bill. You cannot not rob Peter to pay Paul. That is probably the biggest mistake you could make is saying, well, I'll take it now. I have eight months to put it back in. speaker-0 (37:34) That's like that makes my heart stop. I feel so stressed for people and also for anyone who wants to know like you I wish you could see the zoom right now with me Brent and Chris You know these guys love what we're talking about because Brent is literally getting like so excited and so animated talking about this So that's just when you know people are good at what they do I get so geek I'll geek out on dentistry and systems and like how we can help you and they're jazzing about some some tax benefits here So I agree. I think that if you aren't doing that, I also like the thought of 40 % Do you guys recommend, because I know another piece to it, which I realized this year was like charitable contributions. I'm LDS. And so having charitable contributions, 10 % is something that I was like, that was funny. We didn't prepare for that. So that's like another check that I wasn't planning. And then also like SEP and 401ks. Do you guys have anything that you recommend for that of having a tax savings fund, but also building up those other funds and those payments that you'll be making to reduce your tax bill? Yes. but those are also pretty big expenses, depending upon how your business does every year. How do you guys manage or navigate that? Or should I just be saving more? Because again, I'm like building these funds up to this, I've got four accounts, because I stress out about it. speaker-2 (38:44) So Chris, I'm gonna let you take that one on the cashflow. It's really cashflow planning. speaker-1 (38:48) Yeah, a lot of questions in there. speaker-0 (38:50) Cool, like I said, this is why I podcast guys, because I can ask my own personal questions. speaker-1 (38:57) In terms of okay, should you be doing okay. what do you want me to start a chair charitable chair? speaker-0 (39:03) Just like I think that a lot of people might get quote-unquote surprised at the end of the year because not only do we have a tax bill to pay, we have charitable contributions that we're paying. We also have 7401Ks. Like there are quite a few other funds that need to be paid out again to reduce our tax bills to help us. But those are also cashflow that you need to have on hand as a business owner to be able to front that money. So I've been also thinking that could be why other people feel like it's a surprise at the end of the year, just all lumped into taxes when it is just other pieces to help reduce that tax bill for you. speaker-1 (39:33) if something is important to you, then it needs a separate bank account. if charitable giving is important to you, I think you should have a separate bank account so you can visually see that you've got it ready to pay. And in order to make it tax deductible, it does need to be a 501C3. can't just be any random, say, it's... Right? So ⁓ when it comes to all of the retirement accounts, mean, ⁓ 401Ks and IRAs and simple IRAs and all of that, speaker-0 (39:51) about last year. speaker-1 (40:02) Roth, that's like the smallest fraction. That's like the, you know, the entry level league of the tax code in terms of savings. And it's, it's really kind of the stuff that the masses can do. I certainly think it's important to save and save for retirement. think when you're a business owner and let me say this, mean, upfront, I'm a contrarian. I think when you're a business owner, you have to be a contrarian and know that not everything applies to you the same way as everyone else. Sure. I, my bias is I have a much. stronger tendency to say, you know, spend the money in your business or put the, I should say, invest, reinvest the money in your business for growth, because it's going, there's an asset value to that, to that business. need to learn what that is and what you one day can exit it for. And it creates, gives you the most, you know, income. ⁓ If you put money into a 401k or you put money into marketing in your business, you get the same tax deduction. So that's a question. If you're looking for like year end stuff, you know, You could put the money into the, into the retirement plan, or you could prepay some expenses for next year. ⁓ You lot of people, think don't trust their business, which is weird because it's the thing you have the most control over, but they don't trust their own business. Typically it's cause they're not really great at managing their own cashflow and having discipline. And so they're, they're hesitant to invest the money in the business. And they'd rather go roll the dice and put it in the stock market. And at the time of this podcast recording, let me tell you. We are in a recession. It has already begun. Everything is very high. Stock market's high. Real estate is high. Your business is one of the safest places to put your money right now. It provides you an inflation hedge, okay? And it creates revenue. ⁓ And it's tax deductions. I'm a big believer in putting the money into your business or getting another business. I think Brent can talk about, know, people ask us like, what are some of the largest speaker-0 (41:47) Right. speaker-1 (41:56) deductions you can play in. Like what, are the bigger things you can do outside of a 401k? Tax deductions. Generally speaking, the tax code rewards you for doing things that improve our economy. And that's primarily investing in businesses, you know, adding another location, employing people and commercial real estate, commercial real estate is a big one. Again, commercial real estate's really high right now. It may not be the perfect time to be buying or building. Cause all of the costs are really high. save that cash, even if you have to pay some taxes, save the cash for liquidity for the tough times. when this recession happens, most practice owners are going to stop investing in their business, they're to stop marketing. And you got to do the opposite. That is the time where you can do all of that at its lowest cost. that's when millionaires are really made is during recession. So I'm going on a tangent now. You got me passionate speaker-0 (42:50) No, I like it. I like hearing it because I like thinking of other things. think so often you said it really well of business owners want to contract. They want to not reinvest in themselves. It's like, well, like let's put it in the stock market because that's what I heard that we should do. But I really do love that mindset. And that's why I love podcasting. That's why I love talking to different people. This is why I bring you guys on here because I purposely, intentionally bring different ways of thinking out there. You've got to make your own decisions. But I'm a big like when people are zigging, I want to zag. So right now real estate's hot. Commercial's hot. The stock market's hot. Like I literally am sitting here just thinking like, here, just sit on some cash. Like, like you said, I might have to pay more taxes on it, but sit on that cash because you know, it's going to drop. And during that time, that's when you do the exact opposite of what everyone else is doing. So I really love that advice. And I think it's wise and it's prudent. I also love what you said, Brent, of having the 40%. A lot of people say do 30%, but agreed a lot of dentists do tip into that 40 % tax bracket. And I would much rather over prepare than under prepare. Chris, to your point, I really love also having the buckets for like we said, charitable contributions, if you're going to do ⁓ 401ks, but I really, agree with you too. I think reinvest in your business. Look to see, I do end of year spending. I look to see what I could reinvest in, what things are gonna propel us the most. I look at marketing, I look at website rebuilds, I look at. Different softwares that are going to propel us forward different ways to make our our practice more efficient What things are really going to invest in our company and our team? To make it and then I just do fun things like, know trips places I definitely don't get much ROI on that except for emotional ROI, but I know I know this is a longer podcast guys I really hope and I also hope team members listening realize that this is not just for business owners. I think that this is also Individual tax prepping make sure you are preparing look for ways that you can reinvest in yourself What things could you prepare for what things can you build out? Do you have separate savings accounts for different things that you're going to maybe you don't have to save for taxes But guess what maybe one day you will be a business owner So teach yourself the discipline to save now to look for reinvestment. I also think is super valuable. So I want speaker-1 (45:05) team members, for those team members, what side hustle can you create? What side of business can you create? know, and what, what commercial or what even residential property, rental property could you create to give yourself rental income? And there are deductions that come along with that. But if all you do is just do your day to day job, whether you own a business or don't own a business, you're not going to save anything in taxes, nothing significant. got it. You got to create some value in the world out there. speaker-0 (45:29) Agreed. say deliver the biggest and best value. So you guys teased me. So I want to wrap up our podcast with some things to not be doing. You guys have kind of like a hit list right now of some things, some tips that a lot of us might be doing that are cracking down. I know I have been privy to some of these things as well. So take us away. We'll wrap this up with just some, some of that hit list of what not to do. ⁓ and you know, as we get in there, thank you guys for sharing all that you have. Thank you for doing a personal session with me already. So I'm excited for the hit list now. speaker-2 (46:01) So I would say the biggest one that I've seen is the fascination that doctors have with crypto. speaker-1 (46:01) Go ahead, Brent. speaker-0 (46:12) Brent, it's because we're bored. We don't know what else to do with ourselves, so we're like, why not throw a little into crypto? speaker-2 (46:17) Here's the problem. So I have about a half a dozen doctors over last six months. They called me and said, Hey, I put $200,000 into the crypto market, Bitcoin. And I'm like, really? Where did you, where did you write the check from for that investment from the practice? Here's the problem. If that practice is an S corporation and they invest that money in crypto and they hit it big, they could potentially blow up their IRS S corp election. and the IRS will take it away from you. So if you're gonna do investments, do not write the check from your practice. You can take the money home as a distribution, then put it into crypto, but do not do it through your business. speaker-0 (47:01) This is a moment where I just had like a, I'm like, good. I'm glad I did that at least right. even knowing. Why is that? speaker-1 (47:03) Sorry. So that one, I mean, that one can cause some serious damage. ⁓ But the other ones that I think nobody wants to hear when they're listening to this, and I get in all these battles on social media, Facebook groups and all that. But the two things that come up over and over and over again that everybody's kind of cheating on and they're going to get busted on is number one, paying employees and especially dentists and hygienists, paying them as 1099 contractors. This is going to get you in trouble not only with the IRS, but with the Department of Labor. And there are some significant penalties. There is a black and white 20 question checklist that the IRS provides. You can Google that. You can find it directly on the IRS website. And it goes through a checklist of yes or no questions to determine if you qualify to be a 1099 independent contractor or if you fit the requirements of a W-2. And to simplify it, The main thing is the element of control who controls the schedule, who tells you which patients you're seeing and when who's providing all the materials and the tools and equipment. And 99 % of the time, anyone in dentistry falls under the category of an employee. Pretty much have to be a specialist that owns their own separate practice already coming in part time in order for you to 10 99 them. And if you're 10 99ing them, you're 10 and you have to do it to their business. The other thing that doesn't work is when, you know, they're like, Oh, I'm an individual doctor. I'll just set up an S corp and you can 1099 my escort. The IRS is not stupid. Again, they're they're looking at what are your what is your role within that that place that you're receiving the income from the revenue from. So anyway, everybody hates that. But I'm telling you, I speaker-0 (48:58) I don't think it's a, it's not a good place to play with fire. Um, I have a really, really, really awesome unemployment lawyer, um, and employment lawyer. He represents Uber Lyft Red Bull. He's in, um, San Francisco. If you guys need him, he's amazing. Reach out to us. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Um, but he told me he said, Kiera Uber and Lyft, which I personally think I'm no lawyer guys. I'm not there. Uber and Lyft to me are the epitome of 10 99 contractors. but they are, ⁓ they're coming down, they're cracking down on it. And ⁓ I have heard that it is no longer just a small offense. It's a pretty big offense if you misclassify. To me, really, I'm a risky person, but I believe in being smart and also paying people the way they should be paid. As much as it's not fun, we transitioned our whole company and I just think play that one safe because labor laws are not something to ever mess with, in my opinion. speaker-1 (49:51) Yep. And you know, the government has shelled out a lot of money through this pandemic and they've got to collect it and get it back. And they're going to get that back from small business owners. And, ⁓ you know, our, our dependent care systems of Medicare and social security are very fragile right now. And that's the one thing they do not want you to screw with. And so they collect that money through W2 payroll. They're going to, they're going to force more and more than everybody's W2, especially in the occupation of dentistry. Second thing is the cars. Okay. Everybody wants to run their cars through the business. You might be allowed to run a car through your business. It depends on what type of business you're in. If you're in real estate and you're showing houses and you're driving your clients around, you can probably write your car off through your business. But in dentistry, you're going to sit across the table from an auditor and they're going to say, what does a car have to do with the business of dentistry? The IRS tax code says that your business expenses must be ordinary and necessary to the business for them to be deductible. What does the car have to do with the business of dentistry? How is a vehicle ⁓ justified as 100 % business use as a necessary use in order to do dentistry? speaker-0 (51:00) What if it's a wrapped vehicle that's marketing? speaker-1 (51:03) That's different. there are very specific guidelines in the IRS tax code about what is marketing for a vehicle. must be fully wrapped. It can't just be magnets. It can't just be stickers. But it has to be significant that's used for marketing. What we find is not a lot of doctors want to wrap their test up. speaker-0 (51:23) Because they're ticked off with the patient that Ruekinaal didn't go super well and they're cutting people off on their drive home and you don't really want your flashy business to be that car. speaker-1 (51:31) Right. I mean, and to make it legitimate, mean, the car has to be legally registered in the business name. It has to be covered under business insurance, not your personal insurance. The loan has to be under the business name, not your personal name. And there's a, you know, most people are not doing that. They're doing, they're buying it personally. They're just making the payment out of their, out of their business. And they think that they can deduct the whole thing. And this is not true. There's even greater scrutiny if the business tries to buy, if the dental business tries to buy a vehicle. and depreciate it, take it as 100 % use. So I know people hate to hear that, but I would just caution everyone listening, stay away from 1099 and cars in your business. But everyone's. speaker-2 (52:12) doing it! speaker-0 (52:13) I heard a really great quote one day and they said Kiera everything's deductible until you get audited and I was like That's really good advice. I appreciate that. So guys, ⁓ Chris and Brent. Thank you guys for coming on the podcast Thank you for being people that I can call Brent. Thank you for being my December, you know midnight hour friend I loved last year. You said care. There's really not much we can do. Maybe we should have done this in January. So ⁓ But truly, I just appreciate you guys helping so many doctors. know you help a lot of our clients. Shout out to those clients that we mutually work together. I love working with CPA companies. I think we're a good peanut butter and jelly together. We help grow the practice, make them more profitable. You guys make sure that their books are in line. Give us the guiding stars of what levers to turn to help the practices. You take care of the taxes. So it's a really good yin and yang and I hope all of you listening today found a lot of value. Team members, look at this for yourselves. Get the side hustle. I hope this spurred some, some topics, some conversation. Team members, can also help your practices reduce that tax bill. look for ways that you can spend end of year, just different things. So I definitely think team members have a lot of play in this as well. So Chris and Brent, thank you guys so much. It's super fun. If people want to connect with you, ⁓ maybe they're done with their CPA. Maybe they just want to find out if. There might be another option out there. How can they connect with you? I know you guys specialize in DSOs, larger group practices, but also the solo practices as well. How can people connect if they're interested? speaker-1 (53:40) Sure, so check us out online at our website, Profi2020.com. That's P-R-O-F-I-2-0-2-0.com. ⁓ speaker-0 (53:47) You did that because 2020 was such a great year that you guys want to remember. ⁓ speaker-1 (53:53) That marketing plan went out the window. It was 20-20 clarity to give you clarity on your finance. speaker-0 (53:54) No. I just thought I'd throw it out there. So no one will forget Pro-Fi 2020. 2020 was most memorable year guys. Don't forget it. They don't want to forget it ever. speaker-1 (54:07) We have tons of free videos, a lot of great content on there. Check us out on our YouTube channel, all social media, know, at Profi2020. We're very easy to find. ⁓ But we're managerial accountants. It's way different than financial accountants out there. Make sure you look up that difference and know what you're asking for. ⁓ And we always do free consultations for anyone who would like it. speaker-0 (54:29) Awesome. Well, Chris and Brent, thank you again so much, guys. Go check them out, Profi2020. Chris and Brent, they are the owners of the organization. So super grateful for you guys coming on here. Kiera Dent (54:38) I hope you all loved today's episode as much as I did. It is crazy to think that this many episodes have been released since we started the Dental A Team Podcast. And I started looking to say, my goodness, our listeners need to be reminded of some of the things they may have learned a year ago or two years ago or five years ago, because so many things in our practices weren't relevant back then when we heard them, but they are relevant today. And I would be doing you a huge disservice if I didn't re-release some of these episodes for you to remember, to refine. to optimize and really truly if you ever need a topic or you're like, my gosh, I wonder if the Dental A Team has anything like this, go onto our website, TheDentalATeam.com, click on our podcast tab and you can literally search any topic. So whether it's overhead or hiring or firing or team morale or engagement or case acceptance or hygiene onboarding or whatever it is, we have so many episodes for you. And so I am going to intentionally be re-releasing some of the top best episodes for you, pulling back some of the ones that I needed to remember, some of the things that I feel for you to really, really relearn right now and to re-remember, or if it's the first time, welcome. I'm so happy you're listening to it, but I hope you truly enjoyed today's episode. I hope that you share this with somebody. I hope that you go and implement today because we only have one day. We only get today. And so making today the best that it possibly can be. If we can help you in any way, shape or form, reach out Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. And as always, thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Three months into 2026 and the Dental A-Team is already clocking how different patient flow is this year. Kiera talks about optimizing your practice for that unique 2026 patient. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I hope you're just having the best day. I hope that you're realizing things are so good. Things are amazing. I hope that you are just like on cloud nine. And today I'm really excited because this is a topic that I was like just so jazzed about. Cause I realize our patient flow is something that is different for 2026. Like we have it different. It looks different. And I... I'm just really excited. So if you're new to the Dental A Team podcast, welcome. I'm super excited to be here with you. I hope that you are just jazzed. And I think that, like I said, this is going to be something that is going to be very fun for you. And I hope that you take it on. I hope that you look at it. I hope that you just get excited to like, Hey, amazing. We're going to be able to like fix our 2026 patient flow. So when I look at this, like 2026 is very, very, very different than what it was even like when I started the company back in 2016. I think patients in 2026, they're not more difficult. They're just super aware of their time. It's not just enough to be good at clinical excellence. You know how to be really easy to do business with. And if patients feel like energy's off or the vibe's not there, they're going to possibly just leave without saying anything. And so I just wanted to come on today talk to you about some things that I'm seeing in 2026, things that we're seeing with amazing practices that are doing really, really well to help you all, like let's optimize our patient experience, which I know I've talked so many years about patient experience, but I thought like the patient is different today in 2026, they're more used to everything being online. And I think let's not be foolish. We still sometimes have older patients and we need to make sure that we're not adapting everything and changing, but the new generation of patients are definitely a different breed. than what we had before, which every generation is different. So looking for this, I just want you guys to really like get excited. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Kiera Dent and our job is to help you guys have thriving practices, possibly impacting the world of dentistry and to truly just like make it to where you guys feel like you get tactical practical tips on the podcast. I love hanging out with you. I wanna remind you, you're doing better than you think you are. And if this podcast has inspired you, touch your life in any way. please be sure to leave us a review. Those five stars keep us top of mind for everybody. And also pop us in Facebook groups, us, tag us on Instagram. We will comment, we will respond to you and we always appreciate it because that is your subtle way of being able to help us infiltrate the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. So with that, I just want you guys to know that like, ⁓ this patient experience flow is going to help everything improve. And it's for our production, our case acceptance, our team energy, patient loyalty, all of that. So. Getting this patient flow, I believe is so important. So I think like really, really, really working on the first 15 minutes of our patient experience because patients are gonna decide about your practice immediately and they're gonna look at Google reviews, they're gonna look at your social media presence and then it's gonna be on how they make the phone call. So what's gonna happen for it? Like how can we optimize this? And I think one thing is how is your like... hello on the phone. So ⁓ even if we need to record it, listen back to it. I put a mirror always with my front office team members. I want them sitting up straight. I want them smiling really, really big, like almost a cheesy grin. People can feel that energy through it. And then I look at like, how can I make it the easiest, smoothest check-in for them to where when they get to my practice, after I won them over the phone, when they come into the office, they feel different. So how can I make sure my check-in is very fast and personable? How can I make sure there's like minimal paperwork that's like just annoying, iPads that don't work. My team is prep, so when they come and get the patient from the waiting room, they are concierge luxury without the like high price tag of that. Like I just want people when they come into the practice, I feel like people care a lot more about how they feel. They care about the experience of it. I mean, you guys have TikTokers, YouTubers, Instagram people, like that's the world we live in and they are walking everywhere around you. And so... we make sure that they're going to want to showcase our practice and feel that way on time, getting seated on time. These are big things. feel like time is people's greatest commodity and feeling like they're important is the second. So when we look at it, I think that as I look at my processes, what can we do to speed up our check-in? What can we do to like make our paperwork that is clunky? Could we review? And I'm not saying like have anything where you're not legal. Like, of course we need to keep our standards there and we want to get our health histories, but Like for me, when I send new patient paperwork, I ask them to send it back to me 48 hours before their appointment to make sure my team can be prepared. Just think of how nice it is for the patient. Like that's how they confirm their appointments. Totally ripped this off of IVF clinics. They're charging me 25 grand plus. And for me to even schedule my first appointment, my paperwork had to be submitted 48 hours before. Like I could not do it, couldn't schedule. And they just set the tone with me. Like this is how they operate. It was fine. I wasn't annoyed by it. Like, great. I got it right back to them. And then when I got there, they knew all of my history. They took me right back on time. I just felt like it was such a different experience versus someone who's like having me fill out paperwork in the waiting room. I've gone to others. I went to a psychiatrist the other day and I was like, fill out the paperwork in the waiting room. It's just versus the IVF clinic where it's all online, it's seamless, it's very easy. It's not clunky. They text it right to my phone. I can fill it in. I don't have to print things out. I just think, how can you make it to where when they walk in, It's the feeling and experience you want them to have. And I also think for a lot of practices, identifying what feelings do we want our patients to have. If you need help, go look at your Google reviews, have ChatGPT help you and say like, are the top five feelings that our patients feel when they come in here? And then look to see, is that what I want them to feel? And if it's not, change it up. Like how I feel when I walk into a spa versus when I walk into a dental office versus when I walk into an amusement park, there are very different feels that they want me to feel. And each of them needs to curate it. So for yourself, how can I do that? Some practices actually have curated scents. So when you go into the practice, all of their practices smell the same. Some people have coffee bars. ⁓ I just think it's, what do want? Do want them to feel like high end luxury? Do you want them to feel like we are your family practice in the neighborhood? All of it's gonna go into effect on your decor, on your paperwork, on your experience, on how we answer the phone. So really making sure that that's dialed in and that's very solid is going to help a lot. The next thing is going to be... Well, and a way to like, just put a nice pretty bow on that is ask yourself, like, where do patients slow down when they, when they come to our practice or when they're trying to schedule, that's going to help you figure out where can we maybe optimize that? Is it through phones? Like we could use a phone center. Where is it that patients slow down when they're trying to get here? Are they trying to arrive? And then where as we, as a team, are we slowing down? What's taking us the longest? That's going to help you like, just really optimize this patient experience. The next thing is going to be on like clinical momentum. You guys have heard us talk. heavy about block scheduling. And I don't just do this for production. I do this for ease and flow of a practice. Like we tell people all the time, a great day for you is a great day for a patient. And they might want the 10 o'clock, but what they really wants to get in and out on time and they want our doctor to do the best work. So we just guide them to the schedule and say like, perfect. So Dr. Mike does crowns at 10 a.m. on Mondays and 2 p.m. on Fridays. Like whatever time you want it to be, but we guide them. So our schedule is there. I'm not kidding because what this does is doctors are not bouncing between room to room. Hygienic is not waiting on a super long exams. Assistants are trying to like get from room to room and then we're out of materials or we're out of equipment that we can't use because we didn't schedule appropriate. We only have one thing for implants. We've got two implants next door to each other. Patients feel that you might feel like you are a duck on water smooth and you're paddling like crazy underneath, but patients can feel when it's tension and chaotic. So how can we put into place block scheduling? How can we like utilize assisted hygiene, use our hygienist to help numb our patients? What can we do for exams? Like we are big on hygienists, all have the exact same exams. So when doctors walk in, we just tell them the same thing. We have the same handoffs. We use route slips, different things. We make sure we've got like, when's our doctor the most optimal at different times? So we build a schedule that's like our doctor's most optimal working time. We build SRPs when we're doing new patients. Like it's, how do we get a good flow and rhythm in the practice? because patients feel that it feels like, wow, I've said it before on the podcast, I'll say it again, people feel perfection. And so how can we make them feel that the practices in sync, that we're flowing, that we're vibing, that we're jiving. And when we found out, a lot of times hygienists are complaining when we work with them and rightfully so, that doctors are taking forever to get to exams. So what we do is we streamline the hygiene appointment, we streamline the hygiene exam. So when doctor comes in, we actually role play these handoffs really clearly. And then we have it set on the handoff with the doctor and also with the front office team. So that way everybody's getting the information as soon as you get in. We make it very easy for the doctor to connect to the patient, very easy for the hygienist and the patient to be very clear on next steps, and then very clear for the front office of what we're going to need to take for that patient. You better believe it's amazing when we get this dialed in, patients literally walk up to the front desk and they say, hey, Dr. Mike wants to see me back in two weeks for a crowd for an hour and a half. I need to get that scheduled. And you just sit back and like. this just happen? The answer is yes. And a patient feels so good because they're clear on treatment. They're clear on where they need to go. I think a lot of times when we're looking at treatment and exam times and that people think it's quantity over quality. When it's like you can have a three minute exam and that patient can feel so seen, loved and heard. If we're clear, we're to sync and like everybody's working in a system and a process, they feel it. And doctors are more focused, hygiene's more on time and the team stress drops. This is what happens. Like we're not adding extra. We're just doing it in a different flow. And so I would just say like, you can look at yesterday and figure out where was it most chaotic. Look back at the last couple of weeks. Where did we get into those traffic jams and what could we do to change this? Could we change up our hygiene exams? So that way every time doctor walks in hygienist, you're all different shades. So we need to like make sure that doctor, when he comes into hygiene room, one, two, three, four, or she, each doctor, that it's at least something similar and consistent because hygienist just like you. like doctors need to give you the same type of exam, doctors need the same type of handoff no matter which hygienist they're working with. So look at that to see where can we figure that out? Where can we make our clinical momentum even easier with block scheduling, with hygiene exam consistency, with correct handoffs? Patients feel that and they love that. And then the next piece is like, this is tricky of like, what's gonna cause a patient? Like, okay, we figured out how to make it speedy when they come in. We figured out how to make it more flowing throughout their appointment. Now what's going to happen at the end of our appointment that they're going to remember. And what I found is people don't like to wait. People don't like a lot of follow-ups. People like to have it very like tied with a bow and people want to move on with their life. say every time when people are in the office or thinking about dentistry outside, good luck. It's a free for all. So I think when you look at it, what's going to turn a patient off will be waiting a long time to get out the building, like they're done, get me out. So how can we streamline our checkout? I sometimes call it like the HOV lane, like that's just fluoride payments. Sometimes we can even put that in the back versus we need to schedule you for a treatment plan and like go through more in depth. So can we have speedy checkouts for easier patients? Easy way to do it. What about like our treatment plan, making sure that handoff is really clear and then our treatment coordinators are super, super, super thorough and it's like, perfect, we schedule you. We go through your questions, we present clean financials and we make it very easy for scheduling, very easy for financials, very easy for patients to get the treatment done that they want without a lot of headache. I coach a practice of five locations. We do multi, multi, multi millions. I will tell you those treatment coordinators are top, top, top notch. I work with them constantly two times a month and we have this dialed down to where it is so smooth and we close patients and we have been reviewing, we've been doing this for almost six years. And I just want you to know that type of like reps on your checkout process, A patient experiences like bookends, the beginning and the end or what they're going to remember the middle. It can sometimes make or break, but usually it's the beginning and the end. So what can we do to make it where it's like an amazing, like I left you with a huge warm hug. You felt so loved, so valued, so appreciated, and I send you on your way, but I'm very efficient with that too. It's not taking me like 30 minutes to get there, but I want to make sure you're thorough. So that's going to be, I think convenience is no longer impressive. It's expected. And I think when we realized that like, We used to think we're going above and beyond when we make it convenient and we have online scheduling and online bill pay. It's expected now. So I think when you ask yourself like, at the end of our appointment, is it easy for our patients to move through? Do they feel like they left our practice with like a warm hug? Is there anything that we could do to make it more convenient for patients that they might be expecting? If you're not taking online payments, online scheduling, you need to update that. Like that's, it's no longer an option anymore. We're not taking checks anymore. We need to have online payments for patient. And so I think it's a, we're not just competing with other dental practices. We're competing with every other experience. So we're competing with Chick-fil-A, we're competing with Target. We're competing with Amazon. We're competing with anything that people are using day in and day out. Like I love working with Amazon. If I ever have an issue, I just message them and I get my refund and I don't have to worry about it. Like that's great. I'm going to shop with them a lot more versus hotels.com is super annoying to me. And anytime I have an issue, it's never fixed. It's never done. Now back. prior to 2020, they were amazing. Now they're just junk and I don't want to work with them. Not because they're not great, but because they're just not easy to work with. Airbnb, VRBOs, like airline places. Everyone wants to make it as easy as possible. People get very frustrated. And I don't think we have a culture as rigid or as willing to like, I don't know, like almost plow through the noise like we used to. They want it to be decisions are easy. I felt loved. I felt welcomed. I felt cared for. I felt like I got the best dental experience ever and I'm going to go on my way. So I think it could be a really great benefit for maybe you guys have a secret shopper, have a family member come through and give feedback on it. Maybe one of you goes through like call and make an appointment. How hard was that? How easy was that? And don't be nice because we're friends. Like we're genuinely wanting to give feedback so we can be the best practice. And how was my appointment? How was me sitting in the chair? How was checkout? How was follow up? where could we make those just a little bit easier and make it to where we can still be so personable and really connected to our patient, but very efficient and convenient as well. So I think as a quick recap, looking through this of how do I make my bookends? Like what's my like first impression and arrival experience? Then what's our middle, like the clinical momentum and the experience and our handoffs. And then the end is how can I like minimize the lack of convenience, the inconvenience, the taking a long time? we... separate our patients out and have a different exiting flow? Can we make it to where it's just a simpler process? Can we schedule it in the back more? Thinking of all these areas because it's not about moving faster, it's about being more intentional and making patients just feel like almost like this invisible thread where it was like seamless to go to the dentist and it was fun and it was enjoyable and whatever you want them to feel, helping patients have that. And so when people feel comfortable, when they feel wanted, when they feel seen, when they feel heard, They actually say yes to treatment more. it's a double win. Not only are they going to like, leave you great star reviews, but they're also going to want to say yes to treatment because they like you. People say yes to people that they like. People say yes to experiences. People want to come back when they enjoy being there. And you have an opportunity because most people don't like the dentist. So even just doing a smidge of this is going to make you stand out. But I really think like, look at your 2026 experience. Look to see where are we maybe not serving the clientele as we had. Be careful because you can accidentally get outdated very quickly if you're not willing to adapt, but make sure you're adapting to your culture, your experience that you want. Really have that as a clear core value, vision statement, mission statement. Here's how we want patients to feel when they come in. With Dental A Team, we want you to feel like it's easy. We want you to feel like you're loved. We want to make sure it's fun for you. We want to make sure that like, you know, that we're always going to do the right thing. That's Dental A Team. Like I'm not here to create like one off raving fans. I want you to be lifetime. I want you to like love it. I want you to feel like we just got a review the other day and they said you're one of the greatest parts of our entire team and we're such a value to have you on our team. That's what Dental A Team is. It's because we make it easy. We make it fun. make it where it's like there's like we're your little fairy godmothers. We know where to take you. We know how to drive you. That's what I want in our core values like fun, ease, ownership, do the right thing. Those are all part of it. Grit. You figure it out. That's our culture. and that's what I people to feel when they work with us. So if we can help you optimize your patient experience, optimize your practice, just be a, sometimes even having an outside, like literally I was paid a ton to go into an office and just fix their exit flow. That was their number one pain point that they didn't know they had. I watched it and I saw it, we fixed it. Case acceptance radically went up, patient experience radically went up, reviews radically went up. Small, simple things because you don't know what you don't know. You also can't see because you live there. So. I'd love to help you out. team would love to help you reach out. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Go to our website, TheDentalATeam.com book a call. I'd love to work with you. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

Tiff and Trish break down what it means to have the right person in the right chair that's best for your practice. This means gauging comfort levels and the ability to stay calm, but it also means supporting each position so they feel like they can win at their job. Listeners are invited to review their positions based on what personality would thrive there — not only to increase treatment, but to make everyone's lives better, too. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are here today with, honestly, really fun one. These are some of my favorite subjects, the things that we talk about on here. I tell you guys that all the time, but I have Ms. Trish here with us today. Her internal nickname, Dental A Team name, for all of her clients, you guys can use this, is Tada. There's all kinds of reasons for it. We don't need to hash out today, but just know Tada is here. And I know I've said this on the podcast before, but if you're new here, you haven't heard it yet, I love. podcasting with these women and I love also handpicking the topics. get topics given to us from our marketing company. We have a lot of input and say on them as the consultants, but really we just kind of look, I look ahead and I'm like, that's what we're doing in the month of March. So fantastic. And then I kind of handpick which consultants I want because I love when I get to watch someone and partake with someone speaking on things that they're passionate about, that they truly thrive in and they love. And Trish, this topic specifically today, I know I tell you guys this, I don't know if you believe me or not, maybe you do, maybe you don't, but I know this is something that lights you up and I'm excited to be here with you. Thank you for blocking your calendar for me. Thank you for getting this set up. know it's like, both of us are like a little chaotic storms. when it comes to things like this. So I know both of us were like frantically getting ready. So thank you. How are you today? And how excited are you to be here? Like just, you know. Tricia Lee Ackerman (01:24) Thanks. ⁓ Thank you. Thank you. I'm doing great. I always love it when I get to podcast with you. The Dental A Team (01:34) Thank you, thank you. I ⁓ feel like all of you ladies bring your own sense of ease to podcasting for me, which is fantastic, because then I don't feel like totally exhausted by the end, so thank you. ⁓ Something you're really phenomenal at is people, Trish. I think you read people really well. I think you read people quickly, and I think that it's very easy for you to determine. where people should sit or what they should be doing, what they're really great at. It's very easy for you to walk into a room and say, my gosh, this person is born to be a treatment coordinator. She is born to be a billing representative. you mentioned, gosh, what were we on? We were on some call this week. And you mentioned that you were a really great treatment coordinator. And I think we did it. It was on our coaching call we did together. Tricia Lee Ackerman (02:24) Yes. The Dental A Team (02:24) last week and you mentioned that you are a phenomenal treatment coordinator and is your passion and I think that reading people piece is part of that. It's part of who you are, it's part of your personality and it's part of what makes you a phenomenal consultant but also what fed into that piece of treatment coordinating for you and I think Trish if I had to read you correctly I think you love it and I think it lights you up to be able to read people and get people established in something they can be passionate about. because you can read personalities. So very easy to see why this kind of topic we're doing, know, personality versus experience when it comes to team members. Very easy to see why that was such an easy fit for me to choose you to be here today. And before we dive in too much Trish, I want to ask what, ⁓ gosh, what about reading people and being able to peg that? What do you love the most? What do you love when you walk into a room and you can say, my gosh, this, like what lights you up the most about it? Tricia Lee Ackerman (03:28) I think what lights me up the most is like I can easily target somebody who is comfortable talking. So if somebody just kind of looks like their, you know, their shoulders are down, they look like they're at ease, that's going to be a pretty easy person to go and approach. Then you have your people that smile and they obviously they still look very friendly, but there is, it's, again, Tiff, it's like they don't have something written on their forehead. So it is really a read. It's an internal emotional read that I have where it's like, you know what, that person actually probably doesn't want me just going up to them, just like starting a big conversation. And even if I do, you can read a person's body language and see how they're engaging back. And if the engagement back is kind of light, then like that's not a person that you push on. I'm not gonna make them have a conversation with me about a recent wedding they attended if they... The Dental A Team (04:04) Yeah. Tricia Lee Ackerman (04:24) clearly see if it's showing that they just kind of don't want to do that. So I don't know, like, I don't think there's a book that you can read on how to do this. Maybe there is. I, I personally think that this is something that you either kind of have or you don't. That's just my, that's just my thoughts on that. because again, I mean, some people really struggle, really struggle with knowing how to read a room. I'm sure they don't want to, but yeah, if there was a secret sauce, I would love to share it, but I do think it's kind of an internal characteristic that you may or may not be born with. The Dental A Team (05:01) For sure, I totally agree. actually, have my son, you he's 17 now, the recording of this and we've always, myself and just the people on my side that have been involved in his life and forming him into the kid that he is, we were always really big on being like socially aware and really just aware of his surroundings. One, because you know, as a parent, was a single mom scared to death that somebody's gonna steal my kid, you know. So I made sure like he was always insanely, intentional about watching his surroundings, but then also being the one that's courteous to everyone else. Like you just don't be in the way and not so much that you make yourself small, but don't be in the way because it's very easy to just be like, ⁓ awesome. Yep, you go around, know, like don't make it a thing. Just be super aware. And I know that Brody's got that kind of intentionality and that intuitiveness that he can read people as well. And I wonder, often I watch him do it, and I'm like, gosh, is that because you're so aware of your surroundings and you're watching for your next move, right? Because I know for me, it's like, where am I going to step next even of a crowded grocery store? What's the easiest path? When I'm driving down the street, well, which lane is going to be the easiest for me that I'm not an inconvenience to other people as well? So kind of like double dipping there. So I watch him do these things and I think to myself, there are so many people that are not aware of their surroundings. Is that a piece of it, right? And like you said, it's kind of ingrained as personality. Anyway, it's high tangent there, but I think one thing to do is to really ramp up your awareness of present, I guess really, right? It's being present with where you are at and the people that you're with. Because when we're in our heads ahead or behind, we're not here and we're not intentionally paying attention to the things going on in the people around us. How do you feel like then? I mean, where can we talk about hiring? We can talk about all the pieces, but realistically, we get the biggest question is like, gosh, do I hire for personality? Do I hire for ⁓ experience? Do they have to have dental experience? Do they have to have management experience? But really, I think this also applies to looking at the team that you have today and making sure that Tricia Lee Ackerman (06:59) Anyway. The Dental A Team (07:23) We say this all the time, right? Person, right? Seed. It's a massive piece. And I think these pieces you can take and apply to both. When it comes to personality, Trish, and it comes to not just like, that's one thing, to be able to read personalities and be able to be in a room and navigate the situation, but personality versus experience. How do you help practices differentiate the two, even in any situation at all? Tricia Lee Ackerman (07:50) Well, obviously, ideally, personality and experience at a high level, both. That's perfect. That's awesome. But but more than more times than than than not, we do have that situation where the doctor will say like she was really not, you know, hiring for an office manager. She was really nice. She was really great. She was all these things. But that's awesome. However, that's a position where we do need to see the skill set. What type of leadership ⁓ experience does she have? And maybe she doesn't have any, but can we set her up for some? And how quick, how sharp is this individual? Because if they're really, really, I use the word cool. We can train skills, but we really can't train cool. You kind of either cool or you're not. And if they really like this person and they're sharp, then maybe we should entertain giving them some leadership activity homework. and see how that comes. If it's somebody that has all the experience in the world, say like as a treatment coordinator, they've been doing it for a very long time, but they're kind of cold, they're kind of direct, ⁓ they kind of really don't know how to like maybe laugh or break some ice. Is that really the best treatment coordinator? Because that is really a role where you have got to be able to do both. The Dental A Team (09:12) Yeah. Tricia Lee Ackerman (09:15) And that's where I shined and loved it so much because I was able to read the room and I was so passionate about what I was actually getting ready to sell to them. But I could also tell if, if, mean, if they started sweating and like, okay, slow down, back up, let's start to find like what's happening with this person. So the personality, you know, that's, that's great. Most offices are looking for somebody that knows how to smile and and things like that. The skill set, it doesn't always have to be right on point as long as we can give them some tools slash tests, which we can and we could deploy those to monitor like almost like their sharp skill set. Like how sharp are they? How quick are they? Because if they're nice and quick and sharp, it might just be our person. Some of the best people that I have hired through the years had zero dental experience, but they were sharp. They were quick. were in the restaurant industry. That's an amazing industry because people know how multi-task like crazy they can order drinks, they can order food, they can serve, and they have to do it all with a smile because their tips depend on it. those are perfect. That particular group of people are excellent examples because most of them do have the personality and they're sharp. Easy to. The Dental A Team (10:16) Mm, I agree. Yep. Yeah, I agree. I totally agree with that. have hired, I tell practices all the time, when you're at a restaurant and you have a hostess or a server or somebody that you love, give them your card, whether you're hiring now or not, give them your card. ⁓ I totally agree. I think too, as you're chatting through all of that, I agree 100 % with all of it. And I'm thinking too, as you're saying that, yes, you're front office lead, you've got to have the leadership skills, you got to have these pieces, and does the dental Is the dental necessary? Not necessarily, right? My best treatment coordinator ever, she didn't have any dental experience, but she loved people and she believed in the product, like you said. So she didn't even, half the time she didn't even know what she was selling. She was just like, I know that they said this was going to make you healthier. So like, why would you not get this done? And I was like, this is wild. Like, it's an SRP. Yeah, yeah. And they would schedule and it was great. And they would prepay, right? And it was like, gosh, she blew my mind with it, but she believed so much in the people being healthier. Tricia Lee Ackerman (11:26) And it works. Yep. The Dental A Team (11:36) that she just did it. But I'm also thinking as you're saying this, yes, there are personality pieces for that that's necessary. And then it's like, yes, there's also personality pieces for our billing coordinator. So I think that's where the avatar comes into play, right? And knowing what are the goals of this position and what kind of a personality can do that? Because you're bubbly, like for sure this person can do billing. Right, I can do billing, Trish, can do billing. If we sat down, we can do it. But I'm gonna be bored out my mind and it's gonna take me 10 times longer than the personality who was built for it. Because my personality, I need to be, I need to move. I need to move more, I need less details. I am not a detailed person. And I need to just, I need more interaction. So that billing personality might be someone who's a little bit more muted, a little bit, you know. and more introverted, ⁓ detail oriented, loves the numbers, wants to dig in, and you probably are gonna want some experience if you can find it, but again, a skill set that can be taught. How do you help your practices kind of navigate those avatars? Tricia Lee Ackerman (12:51) Just yesterday, literally just yesterday, this was a topic. And it's an office that does have, that like the skillsets is there for all of the team members. However, they weren't in the right seats. So when I started digging a little, because of course case acceptance is always something that I really want to target, because what does that do? It increases production and it's just a big win. Okay. But what we discovered was that, The Dental A Team (13:02) Awesome. Tricia Lee Ackerman (13:18) the team member that was actually more say like the checkout seat that was kind of finalizing and kind of closing up the treatment plan was, was like really shy when it came to money, ⁓ really shy when it came to like asking for any kind of deposit. And so what we found was that when that particular team member is in that seat, we had less people scheduling. So meanwhile, I had gotten to know this front office team a little bit more over the last even just six weeks. And I thought to myself, hold on a second. I know exactly who needs to be in that seat all the time. So no more rotating of seats. We're going to lock down this chair is for that person, this chair. And I had ⁓ a touch base this morning with the O.M. They're already feeling like less anxious. because the person that is now there is good at both. She has no problem, you know, wrapping up a financial piece of things, but she can also talk dentistry if any of those questions do come up. we, and that was a fun exercise. I do like doing that. Like, let's look at your team. Who are all these people and where did they shine? ⁓ okay. But they're sterile tech. Maybe just maybe. The Dental A Team (14:19) Yep. Tricia Lee Ackerman (14:42) We could just hire a sterile tech and this could be your main treatment coordinator. So evaluating those seats and I think consistently evaluating the seats, because we do evolve with change, that is a really successful and not time consuming project that I think a lot of OMS and doctors could and should do regularly. The Dental A Team (15:03) I totally agree with you. I love that you just did that yesterday. ⁓ And I love that you keyed in on the rotation of seats because I feel like a lot of practices do and I hear a lot of managers and team members and doctors say, yes, but I want everyone to know how to do everything. Cool. I do too. I want you to be able to fill in if someone decides to take a vacation. Absolutely agree with you. I don't want things to go left undone. But being responsible for everything. Tricia Lee Ackerman (15:21) Yes. The Dental A Team (15:31) because no one's responsible for anything, and then that means no one's, everyone's responsible for nothing, is a whole lot of things not getting done effectively and a ton of underlying stress that people don't even realize they're feeling. The anxiety of not knowing how to win in your position or not feeling fully confident in the things that you're doing because you're doing so many things that require different brain sets. You actually, you, you feel it, but you really don't know that it's happening until you get stabilized in that seat with clear goals and a clear way to win and in a space and a seat that you thrive in. You're like, I feel free. Like I feel so much less stressed and I didn't even realize I was stressed. It's, so much fun to watch. And if you've ever felt it, you know what that feels like and Trish. you keying in on that right now might be to me at least the biggest piece of this whole podcast because so many practices and I think both of us experience this fight that like no we all do it right we all do it we all we help each other we don't want to be a team that can't help each other ⁓ golly if you become a team that can't help each other because you're in a treatment coordinator seat instead of this float seat where you're doing 15 000 things that's a different issue Tricia Lee Ackerman (16:44) Yes. The Dental A Team (16:57) That's completely separate and your culture needs to be fixed. But right now, you're not helping each other. You're actually holding each other back and you're, as the manager, I think I'm gonna just, hard truth, as the manager and the doctor, allowing a space like that to exist is a detriment to the people that you've hired. And it, to me, says, I don't think you can do one thing really well, so we're gonna do all of the things all together to make sure nothing gets missed. And in reality, there's so much stuff that gets missed. Tricia Lee Ackerman (17:31) Yeah, a lot of missed opportunity for growth there. And it can be so, and now like this, in this case, the gal that is now in this seat and she's not moving, she's going to be so empowered. And then the other two that we moved into the seats that are appropriate for them, same thing. They're going to feel so empowered. And that, and I'm looking forward to a check in with them in two weeks. That I really truly am, but. The Dental A Team (17:34) for sure. Tricia Lee Ackerman (17:56) That's the key. The right people, right seats, we say it all the time, almost every day to at least one client or more. That's the ticket. Who are your people? Where do they shine? Where are they currently sitting? And where could a better seat be for them? The Dental A Team (18:15) Yeah, yeah, and I think what are the seats that you have and what's the goal of that seat? Because when we don't know, when we just say, well, I've got five front office team members or three front office team members, cool, but what are those seats? Well, we have two that sit at the front and then one that sits in the back. Okay, but like, what is the seat? So if we're saying we've got a check-in, a check-out, and an office manager who does billing and treatment planning, great. Tricia Lee Ackerman (18:30) Right, I did. The Dental A Team (18:44) We got five seats, label the seats. What is the seat? What is their main goal, the main duty of that seat? And how can they win in that seat? I did that exercise. I think it's very similar to what you just did, Trish. I did this with a big practice, three doctors, lots of hygienists, lots of, and I've done it with, we've both done it with so many practices. The big guys are the ones that are the most fun to untangle because those webs are deep. Tricia Lee Ackerman (19:08) Yes. The Dental A Team (19:11) But we started untangling them and the doctors were like, wait, I like, want to, I want to help with this. And they untangled the seats and the goals. And even as far as three metrics per position in the front office that they can say this position is winning so that now that front office gal can take this job description and say, great, these are the things that I'm going to do. This is my operations manual for my seat. on how I'm going to get there. And just being able to have that clarity alone, even for the doctors, they think it opened up a ton for them and I can't wait till they deliver it to the team because it's just, it's empowering. And when you're hiring, that's how you know if you've interviewed the right person. Does this, this seat, the seat that I've created, the job description, the goal and the metrics, what kind of a person will thrive reaching those. I'm not going to put a like introverted, great with numbers person. I want great with numbers for a treatment coordinator for sure, but they're not selling anything. They're just reviewing it, which is fine, but if you want a different result, you've got to do it differently. Tricia Lee Ackerman (20:29) Something else that comes up Tiff quite often is, and this can be such a hard decision for a doctor, they might have like their best dental assistant that they've ever had. And those two work so well side by side. However, that particular say dental assistant could be an absolutely incredible treatment coordinator. But when we bring that to the doctor, that's when they're like, because they just can't imagine not having that person side by side with them as their assistant. And the doctors that do recognize it and go, ⁓ my gosh, you were so on to something. Those are amazing transitions because number one, that dental assistant that we're even considering putting into like a full-time treatment coordinator role, she knows that doctor inside and out. She believes in him. I she knows everything about him, the dentist. that is somebody that can really grow a business, then we just hire, we replace the dental assistant and sharpen those skills with the same ones, the one that stepped out. But like that is also something that doctors don't, sometimes they don't even entertain that idea. We have to entertain it for them. And then when they see that, it's like, and I can only imagine, it's very scary for them to lose their key person sitting next to them all day, every day, but it can also be a, The Dental A Team (21:45) I agree. Tricia Lee Ackerman (21:54) really great move. The Dental A Team (21:56) I totally agree with you. Totally agree. Love it. Thank you. I knew this topic would be fun for both of us. We both kind of love moving people around. I love seeing, I love when we can move someone, like you just said, like giving someone the empowerment to try something they've maybe not really done before, but that growth opportunity to go from chair side dental assistant to treatment coordinator and just like learn a new skill set is, it's super cool. Super fun to watch. So. Thank you Trish. I think if I had to pick out some action items for everyone, I think based on what Trish is saying here, evaluate the people you have. Look at their personalities and look at their skill sets. Trish, said, like, where do they thrive? So what do they love to do? Oftentimes, too, when I say that, I like to look at their personal lives. Like, what kind of sports are they playing? Like, what activities are they doing? Are they knitting? Are they pottery? Are they, you know, are they volleyball players? Like, look at their personalities. And then also look at your positions and what personality would thrive in that position, not only to get us more treatment on the schedule, but to fulfill them, to make their lives better, to make them happy, to make them love where they work, and in turn, make you love where you work. So I'd say go evaluate your people, evaluate your positions, and get the personality straight. Build those avatars and take a look. Trish, anything you want to add before we wrap this up? Tricia Lee Ackerman (23:23) don't think so. really don't. The disc test, maybe I'll toss that in. That's always kind of good one. Doctors do love to do that. ⁓ You know, evaluate those. Everybody can even do them together when you hire somebody else on or if you're considering. and you know, vibe checks. We always talk about that. Do your vibe check. Let your team do a vibe check. And again, how's their personality? Does that personality fit the actual practice? Some practices are full of spunk and fun and craziness. I see some of these teams on Instagram and they just The Dental A Team (23:24) Awesome. Yeah. Tricia Lee Ackerman (23:52) track me up, that would be a great one for fun. And you know, some doctors are not. So you might not want to bring in say like a clown into a really conservative practice. They might not mesh. So evaluating personalities slash the skill set. Yes, it's not always that easy, but we can certainly help. And ⁓ once you do get those right personalities in those right seats, like you said, Tim, everybody wins. The Dental A Team (24:21) Yeah, I love it. Thank you. All right, guys, you heard it here. Go do the things. Trish, this was phenomenal. Thank you for taking this journey with me. Everyone, you know where to get ahold of us. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com or leave us five-star review below or both. We love both of those. So we can't wait to hear from you. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Trish, thank you. Tricia Lee Ackerman (24:29) Thank you. Thanks, Tiff.