Downstream: The Middle Class Is Collapsing. Fascism Could Be Next w/ Clara Mattei

Downstream: The Middle Class Is Collapsing. Fascism Could Be Next w/ Clara Mattei

From Downstream – Novara Media Podcasts by Novara Media

March 16, 2026 · 1h 20m

About this episode

Clara Mattei discusses the parallels between the economic conditions of the 1930s and 2020s, exploring the relationship between austerity and fascism.

Rising unemployment, increased military spending, and a decline in living standards for most people, including the middle class: the description fits both the 1930s and the 2020s. In the 1930s, it was a situation that morphed into the destruction and horror of the Second World War. On Downstream with Aaron Bastani this week is Clara Mattei, professor of economics at the University of Tulsa, and author of ‘Escape From Capitalism: Economics Is Political and Other Liberating Truths’. Mattei’s PhD was on the relationship between austerity and fascism in inter-war Italy, and her book is a comparative study of Britain and Italy in that period. What, they ask, is the relationship between austerity and fascism – both then and now? Is capitalism a ‘natural fact’, as its proponents would have you believe, or a contingent set of affairs designed and propped up by governments? And if capitalism is in fact a choice, how can we go about building an alternative?

People in this episode

Host: Aaron Bastani

Guest: Clara Mattei

Topics covered

  • middle class
  • fascism
  • austerity
  • capitalism
  • economic decline
  • historical comparison

Keywords

  • middle class collapse
  • fascism
  • austerity
  • capitalism
  • economic standards
  • historical analysis

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: University of Tulsa

Books & works: Escape From Capitalism: Economics Is Political and Other Liberating Truths

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