ExperiMENTAL Marketing | Playbooks to measure and scale Marketing ROI

Pranav Piyush is the CEO of Paramark , where he's devoting the next 15 years of his life to solving Marketing Measurement. In our conversation, he shares his journey from engineering to marketing at companies like Adobe, Dropbox, and Reforge emphasizing the importance of measurement and experimentation in marketing. He also discusses the challenges faced by CMOs, the need for a culture of experimentation, and the significance of strategy in marketing efforts.TakeawaysMarketing measurement is dysfunctional and he saw a glaring gap when he was a Marketing leaderCMOs face short tenures because of unrealistic expectations from the C-suite but also self inflicted A culture of experimentation is crucial for marketing success.Failure in experiments is common and should be embraced as a learning opportunity.Creative strategy is as important as tactical execution in marketing.The future of marketing lies in continuous adaptation and innovation.In this episode, we cover:00:00 Introduction to Pranav Piyush and Paramark01:41 Pranav's Journey into Marketing05:29 The Challenges of Marketing Measurement08:07 Bridging the Gap: Art and Science in Marketing11:44 Understanding CMO Challenges16:09 Building a Culture of Experimentation21:42 Strategy vs. Execution in Creative Marketing25:06 The Importance of Roadmaps in Marketing27:16 Innovative Experiences at Dropbox29:46 Lessons from Failed Experiments33:37 Finding Product-Market Fit37:34 Building Relationships with Major Clients42:09 Choosing the Right Marketing Vendor47:14 Understanding Marketing MetricsListen to the ExperiMENTAL Marketing podcast on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcastsNew episodes every Thursday at 6 AM GMT+2.Also, check out the experiMENTAL newsletter: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/subscribe

What if your biggest growth unlock wasn’t more speed, but better structure?In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Mattia Santin, SVP of Brand, Growth & Operations at ContentSquare, former CMO at Hotjar, and former marketing leader at Uber. They dive deep into the B2B vs. B2C debate, why product marketing is the missing engine in many orgs, and what Mattia learned running $300M+ in global media. From in-housing entire teams to turning off ad spend for bold tests, this episode offers hard-won insights for every marketing leader who wants to scale without burning out.KEY TAKEAWAYS• Product marketing should be a two-way street, not a ticketing system• B2B and B2C are more alike than people think, speed is the main difference• The structure of your marketing team affects everything: agility, trust, impact• “Zigzagging your way to growth” creates chaos and burnout• Build the engine before you slam the gas pedal• Foundations matter more than speed; solid data systems are non-negotiable• Product marketing teams need clarity, resilience, and executive support• Testing assumptions (even expensive ones) leads to clarity and efficiency• Leadership buy-in is essential for bold experiments• Attribution isn’t just a metric problem, it’s a culture problemBEST MOMENTS00:03:02. “It’s been fascinating to observe... a lot more similarities than people think.”00:05:06. “I knew I wasn’t going to be at companies for 18 years... that wasn’t my path.”00:08:00. “Hotjar had an amazing brand, but competition was rising. It was time to pivot.”00:10:13. “I've worked in squad setups and functional models... and I prefer functional.”00:16:02. “You don’t want a car zigzagging its way through strategy.”00:23:36. “Product marketing teams will suffer without clarity and structure.”00:37:45. “We turned off all display spend for a week… and nothing happened.”🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

🎯 Is your marketing KPI lying to you?In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Russell Tischler, VP of Marketing at Fundrise, to dismantle the myth of “good enough” metrics. From building predictive models that forecast investor behavior to questioning the ROI of lift tests, Russell shares hard-earned lessons from his time at Uber and Fundrise.If you're a B2C marketer, data scientist, or growth leader wondering how to prioritize the right metrics without wasting time or budget, this episode will completely reframe your thinking.Get ready for deep insight, no fluff, and some well-earned hot takes.KEY TAKEAWAYS• Shallow KPIs are often misleading and can hold back meaningful growth• Fundrise built a day-90 model to better predict long-term investor value• The 90-day predictive model offered better accuracy than day-1 projections• High-capacity investors often start small, making early conversion data deceptive• Fundrise balances low-dollar, high-volume vs. high-dollar, low-volume acquisition channels• Direct mail is unexpectedly powerful for trust and high-value targeting• First-touch attribution is underrated, especially for category-creating businesses• Startups should optimize for speed of learning, not perfect measurement• Most lift tests aren’t worth running if the gain is under 10%• The best growth moves feel obvious, no stats needed to prove itBEST MOMENTS00:01:59. “What I do is use too shallow of a metric, and I’ve tried to help move us further into the customer journey.”00:03:07. “How do we differentiate when we’re acquiring one of the 20% that's super valuable versus someone who churns quickly?”00:04:43. “You can see where only looking at somebody's conversion behavior can be misguided.”00:06:05. “The best growth marketers deeply understand the business and analytics, not just KPIs.”00:09:02. “We started with wanting a 12-month payback period... the cost per dollar fundraising target.”00:16:18. “We've been able to be pretty accurate by combining the human element with the model approach.”00:26:42. “Direct mail has been awesome for large investors, really credentializing.”00:38:06. “Almost any time we've done something really successful, it’s just obvious.”🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Mastering CRM: From Paper Notes to Lifecycle GrowthIn this episode of ExperiMENTAL, host Sundar sits down with Karan Tibdewal, The CRM Guy™️ and trusted CRM advisor to top subscription apps. Together, they trace CRM's journey from Rolodex-era notes to today’s role as a strategic lever for growth. Whether you’re leading lifecycle marketing or wondering if CRM is still relevant, this episode reveals what great looks like, what most teams miss, and why onboarding might be completely broken. With practical frameworks and sharp insights, this is CRM like you’ve never heard it before.Key Takeaways• CRM started as a Rolodex and has evolved into lifecycle engagement• The definition of CRM has shifted from sales to relationship management• Subscription CRM is harder to measure but more relationship-driven• E-commerce CRM delivers clearer ROI but less long-term impact• Most onboarding flows are outdated and show no positive ROI• The difference between onboarding and activation is often misunderstood• CRM teams fail when siloed and thrive when integrated with product• Frameworks like Reach, Relevance, Frequency help prioritize CRM work• Consistency in brand and creative is often overlooked in CRM execution• The ENCAM framework helps teams build stronger reward programsBest Moments00:00:12. “The first CRM tool was in the 1980s. People were doing stuff on the Rolodex or they would have these paper notes.”00:03:57. “CRM has shifted from buying or not buying, to engagement and personalization.”00:06:28. “There’s no consistency in what good CRM looks like between companies.”00:09:21. “CRM in subscriptions means understanding usage and preferences, not just pushing messages.”00:13:25. “I have never seen a positive ROI from onboarding comms.”00:15:21. “My moment is not my first workout. It’s when I feel like the program is working.”00:18:15. “I need to be an Alfred to your Batman. Help you around and understand where you are in your life.”00:25:08. “At a CRM level, everything you send is a factor of reach, relevance, and frequency.”00:33:16. “Consistency is everything about keeping them on, keeping them motivated to achieve goals.”00:41:14. “Usually what I do is… work with teams that have strong growth but underutilized CRM.”🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Assumption Audit: The Step Most Marketers SkipMost marketing failures don’t stem from bad creative, poor media buys, or weak strategy. They start earlier, at the assumption level. In this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar sits down with Oliver Raskin, Head of Research at Miro and former insights lead at Meta and Uber, to break down why assumptions kill great ideas and how marketers can audit them before launching campaigns. They explore the difference between optimism and magical thinking, why misalignment festers in kickoff meetings, and how to rewire processes to avoid costly mistakes. If you’ve ever wondered why “obvious” campaigns flop, this episode is a must-listen.Key Takeaways• Research is part inspo, part reality check, part insurance policy• Most marketing starts by solutioning instead of defining the real problem• Assumptions around audience, channels, and timing go unchecked• Kickoffs are the hidden leverage point in campaign success• "Pay now or pay later" is the cost of skipping alignment• Research isn’t slow, bad process is• Clarity of goal always surfaces hidden disagreements• Synthetic audiences and qualitative at scale are changing research• Surveys are dying, and that’s a good thing• Messaging must map clearly from assertion to beliefBest Moments00:02:20. “This role is part inspo, part reality check, and part like insurance policy.”00:04:52. “Each piece that you’ve made a wrong assumption on chips away at your likelihood of being successful.”00:07:18. “These are people problems, not data problems.”00:09:10. “You relitigate these decisions over and over again because they probably needed to have been litigated properly once.”00:11:12. “We’re already solutioning at this point.”00:17:05. “Be explicit about all the things that need to be true in order for that outcome to be reached.”00:28:47. “I’ll put you on the right trail. You’ll have to do a lot of iteration to get up the mountain, but at least you’re climbing the right mountain.”00:41:20. “It’s the why, what, and how of your pyramid.”00:54:55. “Take the time to make your assumptions explicit. It might feel uncomfortable, but it’s worth it.”🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Building Marketplaces with Data: What We Learned at Uber and FaireOn this episode of ExperiMENTAL, Sundar is joined by Gopal Nath, Director of Strategy and Analytics at Faire and former Marketing Analytics Lead at Uber. Together, they explore the data-backed decisions that shaped two of the world’s most dynamic marketplaces. From measuring efficiency to testing branded search strategy, this episode breaks down how growth actually happens behind the scenes. Expect tactical takeaways, sharp insight, and a few laughs as Sundar and Gopal reconnect and reflect on lessons from Uber, Faire, and life in between.KEY TAKEAWAYS• Efficiency means balancing ROI with payback periods, not chasing perfection• Uber’s marketplace matured by shifting from growth-first to ROI-first models• Strategic finance teams need embedded marketing context to partner effectively• Paid marketing is a two-way door, you can turn it off, learn, and turn it back on• Pre-post tests still work when applied with high intent and channel focus• Branded search efficiency varies by region and even by language nuance• B2C and B2B marketplaces share similar dynamics on both sides of the platform• Culture impacts data science effectiveness, ego-free collaboration drives scale• Faire prioritizes truth-seeking and kindness as core hiring and cultural values• Family life and high performance can co-exist with flexibility and trustBEST MOMENTS00:00:03. “Brand to me is how you become top of mind.”00:01:33. “I switched over to Faire, leading our marketing analytics team here for both sides of our marketplace.”00:03:02. “We had a six-line-long definition of efficiency at Uber.”00:04:49. “Your return might take two and a half or three years to make that money back.”00:07:28. “Because there’s a dedicated individual, they’re able to learn quickly about marketing.”00:12:06. “Let’s double click on that, because I imagine a lot of people are going to be in the situation of...I don’t have the resources.”00:14:20. “We were able to recoup 99% of the signups.”00:17:08. “Paid is a two-way door. You can turn it back on and get back to prior efficiencies.”00:21:25. “You don’t get the zero moment of truth only through having a great product.”00:28:22. “Focus on that one team, one dream mentality.”🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

The Future of Growth Marketing Is Cross-Disciplinary | Sunil Subhedar (Uber, Canva, Anthropic)Welcome to the very first episode of ExperiMENTAL, the podcast for marketers and data scientists who are done with fluff and ready to go deep.In this debut episode, host Sundar Swaminathan sits down with Sunil Subhedar, Growth Marketing Lead at Anthropic, and former head of growth at Canva and Uber, to unpack what modern growth marketing actually looks like when you’re building at scale.You’ll learn:✔ How to build a growth team that works like a product team✔ Why the best marketers today think in systems, not channels✔ The power of cross-functional collaboration with product, data, and engineering✔ How to align with finance and data science before you run experiments✔ Real use cases of AI for content, SEO, testing, and ops✔ Why dashboards are broken and how to fix your reporting mindsetSunil shares practical frameworks, team design insights, and real lessons from scaling at some of the world’s top tech companies. This is where B2C marketers go to learn what actually works.🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions.🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business.📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com

Welcome to ExperiMENTAL, the podcast for B2C marketers, founders, and analysts who are done with surface-level advice and ready to make smarter, data-informed decisions.Hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, former Head of Brand Data Science at Uber and creator of the ExperiMENTAL newsletter, this show is your go-to space for cutting through noise and building high-impact marketing strategies that actually work.If you’ve ever wondered whether your best marketing move is to stop spending, or how to prove ROI beyond the usual metrics, you’re not alone. Sundar brings clarity, curiosity, and real experience to every episode, with honest conversations and practical frameworks from leaders at companies like Uber, Faire, and Google.Expect sharp insights, thought-provoking questions, and strategies you can actually use.🎙️ Ready to stop guessing and start experimenting? Subscribe to ExperiMENTAL and get bi-weekly episodes that help you think critically, test boldly, and lead with confidence. 📩 Join the newsletter: https://experimental.beehiiv.comNew episodes every second Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever you listen.🎧 ExperiMENTAL is hosted by Sundar Swaminathan, Head of Data Science at Bounce and former Uber leader. This show is your behind-the-scenes look at how top marketers and data scientists make smarter decisions. 🧠 Expect unfiltered conversations, mental models, and case studies that help you cut waste, build conviction, and grow your B2C business. 📬 Subscribe to the ExperiMENTAL newsletter for deep dives and frameworks: https://experimental.beehiiv.com/This podcast has been brought to you by APodcastGeek. https://www.apodcastgeek.com