Fierce Calling

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this episode #215, host Doris Swift is joined by returning guest Valerie Ellis—author, speaker, teacher, and founder of Our Everyday Parables, a multi-author site dedicated to bringing families resources where faith and fun meet. Valerie’s passion for connecting kids with biblical truth through engaging books shines as she shares about her journey, including inspiration from her own two boys and her background as a certified teacher. Doris and Valerie dive into the stories behind Valerie’s beloved children’s books—like Let’s Go Bible Adventures, designed for kids obsessed with trains, trucks, and ice cream vans, and Share the Joy: A Christmas Lift-the-Flap Book, which helps instill a spirit of giving during the holidays. They discuss Valerie’s newest release, Wild Faith Devotional for Kids, packed with fascinating animal facts and faith lessons, and explore how everyday moments and the wonders of creation can point children (and adults!) to God. You’ll also hear practical wisdom on helping your kids experience “Jesus joy,” resources for parents and caregivers to make faith relatable, and tips for aspiring writers who feel called to create meaningful books for children. Tune in for encouragement, laughter, and a timely reminder that investing in the youngest generation can have eternal impact—even in the busiest seasons. We’re Talking About These Amazing Books & More! Florida Women’s Ministry Leadership Conference mentioned in the intro: Episode Highlights and Takeaways … 00:00 Children’s Christian Books and Devotional 07:06 “Supporting Parents in Faith Education” 09:42 Teaching Christmas Sharing to Kids 12:28 Promoting Christian Books in Libraries 14:44 “Books Adults and Kids Love” 20:15 Teaching Faith Through Everyday Moments 21:28 VBS Themes: Truth and Fun 25:02 “Catfish Devotion: Sense God’s Goodness” 30:39 Joy of Writing Rhyming Books 31:44 Writing Children’s Christian Books 34:53 “Get Excited Every Day” 38:07 Critique Groups for Writing Growth 42:19 Writing Journey: Faith, Fiction, and Nonfiction 45:01 Unrecognized Parental Impact 49:47 Sharing Faith and Resources Connect with Valerie! You can connect with Valerie and find her books and resources mentioned in the show, here: valerieellis.com Our Everyday Parables Blog Instagram: @iamvalerieellis Instagram: @oureverydayparables Let’s Go! Bible Adventures: Real Bible Stories for Kids Who Love Trains, Tractors, Ice Cream Trucks, and More Share the Joy! A Christmas Lift-the-Flap Book Wild Faith Devotional for Kids: 52 Amazing Animals That Point to One Great God Listeners can find a free activity pack for Let’s Go! Bible Adventures at https://valerieellis.com/letsgo/. and info & resources for Wild Faith, plus a YouVersion study for kids at https://valerieellis.com/wildfaith/. The Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators, Valerie mentioned: https://www.scbwi.org More About Valerie! Valerie Ellis is an author, speaker, and founder of Our Everyday Parables, a multi-author online resource with book reviews and ideas for families pursuing faith and compassion. A certified teacher with countless hours in children’s ministry, Valerie writes books that serve kids at the intersection of faith and fun. Valerie is a frequent speaker for The MomCo (formerly MOPS) and similar groups. She stays involved with her own local chapters of The MomCo, SCBWI, and the Texas Library Association as well. Valerie is also a nonprofit consultant, trainer, and grant writer in the Houston area, where she lives with her husband, Josh, and their two boys. An Ohio-born, Texas-raised TCU Horned Frog, Valerie loves live music and going on adventures—big and small—with her family and friends. What Threatens to Steal Your Joy? Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/ Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage! Love Fierce Calling? Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend! Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event… Thanks for Listening! I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value, purpose, and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift Let’s have a chat about your next event! Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned. Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you. I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect … Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon. With love and joy, Doris P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! Transcript Doris [00:01:56]:What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to Him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award-winning six-week Bible study Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever-present Jesus joy within. Doris [00:02:41]:Using personal and biblical stories I share, how you can identify your joy stealers. Surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Doris [00:03:10]:Welcome back to the show Today. I am excited to welcome back a good friend of mine. She’s been on the show actually twice before. So this is exciting. Valerie Ellis, she is an author, speaker and founder of Our Everyday Parables which is a multi author site for families filled with amazing resources and book reviews and things like that to help families navigate, you know, and find good resources for where their faith and fun intersect. She’s also a certified teacher and she writes books that serve kids in that intersection of faith and family and fun. And I love that because that’s, you know, fierce calling the intersection where your passion, compassion and conviction intersect. So that word intersect is dear, near and dear to my heart. Doris [00:04:01]:She’s also a nonprofit consultant and she is a trainer and grant writer. So that’s cool. And she lives in the Houston area with her husband and their two boys and she’s written some amazing books. We’ve talked about a few on the past episodes. I think she actually she was episode 106 and 168, so it was a little spread there. So we’re spreading it out a little bit. But it’s so great to have her on. She has several different books. Doris [00:04:31]:One of them is let’s Go Bible. Real Bible stories for kids who love trains, tractors, ice cream trucks and more. And she has a book also that we talked about and since we’re getting near the Christmas season, it’ll be a cool one to kind of bring back up to the forefront, share the joy, a Christmas lift, the flat book. And I don’t know who doesn’t like Lift the Flat books because I love those. And her new devotional, which will be coming out October 7th, but by the time this episode comes out, it will be available. And it’s Wild Faith devotional for kids, 52amazing animals that point to one great God. And I love this book so much. It’s filled with fun and fascinating animal facts. Doris [00:05:16]:It’s very unique and I’ve learned a lot of stuff from it already. So it’s so great to have you back on the show. Welcome, Valerie. Valerie Ellis [00:05:25]:My pleasure. Thank you, Doris. I just love chatting with you. So I’m thrilled about what we’re going to talk about today. Doris [00:05:32]:Thank you. Me too. It’s always so fun to have you on. We go way back. We met through a book membership program called Book Camp. Yeah. Chad R. Allen, and he has, you know, coaching for writers and, you know, helps writers get their books into the world, basically is kind of part of what his tagline is, you know, helping us get books into the world, which he has. Doris [00:05:57]:And so we’re kind of proof to that. And so, yeah, I’m excited to get into this conversation and talk about where your passion convat. I can’t even talk. Your passion, compassion and conviction currently intersect through the writing and the things that you have going on right now. Valerie, since we last spoke. Valerie Ellis [00:06:20]:Yes. Well, I am, I guess, a little bit at loss for words because I have so many passions. And so it’s like, well, how do they intersect? I mean, starting with family, of course. Honestly, I wouldn’t have written any children’s books if it hadn’t been for my own kids. And I know that’s not everyone’s path, but my first book idea was the let’s Go Bible Adventures, even though it was the second one that came out. And so when I had that idea, it just wouldn’t let me go. And it was because my kids loved vehicles so much when they were little and in fact was hard pressed to get them to read any other kind of book. So it got me thinking about how to integrate the modern things kids love with the true Bible stories. Valerie Ellis [00:07:06]:And we can get more into that later, how we kept it biblically sound and things like that. But that kind of started that journey and then integrating that with parents. You know, the parenting journey is just for full of highs and lows and everything in between and just the compassion that I’ve, you know, had to learn toward myself and the compassion that I have for other parents and just trying to, you know, support them, get ideas out there for them, for other caregivers like grandparents, aunts and friends that, you know, children’s ministers and so currently been doing some speaking to parents, to children’s pastors and teachers, just about reading about helping kids find God in the everyday moments. And then, of course, bringing the books straight to the kids, which I get to do now, like at school visits and things like that, has been such a blessing. And to see their reactions to the illustrations. I don’t illustrate my own books, so just seeing their reaction to all the lovely illustrations and the rhymes and just the different things. So I’m excited. Like you said, Wild Faith isn’t out while we’re talking, but it will be out by the time this airs. Valerie Ellis [00:08:16]:So I’ll be excited to get into some other classrooms for older kids because that book is for kids seven and up, and my other books are more for preschoolers and kindergarteners that kind of age. So I’m excited about what’s ahead and just grateful that God has let all these passions intersect. Doris [00:08:35]:Yeah, that’s amazing. And I love how, you know, they do cover different spans of age groups and that the schools and churches are so open to having you come and share your gifts. And, you know, being a teacher, I mean, you have great credentials for. To be able to do those things. And. And these books, it’s so. It’s so cool, though, how God works in his timing. And we talk about timing a lot on this show because it’s so, like, relevant to everybody. Doris [00:09:08]:You know, God’s timing and how you had this one book that you thought was. Was going to be your book that was going to be the one to come out and then it actually was it the Christmas one that came out first. Right. So, yeah, if you can mention a little bit about that because we’re getting, you know, here the Christmas season is upon us. So maybe share a little bit about that as kind of a recap because I’ll put the link in the show notes to the previous episodes because we talked in length about that book. But yeah, if you want to just kind of touch on that one, I’d love that. Valerie Ellis [00:09:42]:So this is. Share the joy if you’re watching with a video or something, but share the joy. A Christmas lift, the flat book. So like you said, it has those flaps that are just really fun for kids and it talks all about caring and sharing at Christmas. So basically helping the littlest ones get that in their excitement, in their muscle memory about serving to honor the greatest servant of all. You know, Jesus came to be born and came to show us God’s love. And so at Christmas, sometimes that part can get crowded out the most easily. So of course with kids, you’re not going to lecture them or, or, you know, tell them all the woes of the world and materialism, but rather just help them, you know, from that very young age, just be like, oh, this is what we do at Christmas. Valerie Ellis [00:10:30]:We care for people, we share. This is like, ingrained in our family culture. So that’s why I wanted to write a book about that for the littlest ones, because I remember Christmas books, even from my childhood, still influence, like, my Christmas traditions and things like that. So each page shows, like a child doing something, a Christmas tradition. And then you lift the flap and there’s a bit of a surprise because they’re using that tradition to share with someone or to talk about Jesus. And so it’s just a really fun way. And I’ve loved that it’s been like, checked out from our local library all year long because of the flaps. You know, have to give their credit to the flaps. Valerie Ellis [00:11:08]:Kids love that. So it’s a really good way to engage the kids. And so that’s what I try to do with all my books, is think about things kids already love. Just so it will be an easy win for parents and grandparents to be like, let’s read about the Bible. Because that’s one of the things I wanted to do with my kids and sometimes that I didn’t always get my way and they wanted their books. I was like, well, let’s make it a win win with the car, book, the animals. And then of course, like you said, the Christmas lift the flap. Doris [00:11:38]:Yeah, I love that. And, and I love the fact too, that it’s in the library and people can check it out because there’s just like a lot of families that may not have the budget to, to buy books, you know, all the time. And so it’s great that it’s available there. And you know, even nowadays you can go on like, different apps for your library and get books that way and not even walk into a library. Because I was just, I drive past our library every day and I just was commenting the other day how long it’s been since I’ve actually walked into the library. And I love the library. I don’t know what’s wrong with me or why I haven’t been back, but anyway, I need to do that. You know, we used to even rent like, DVDs right, from the library, which people still do, check them out or whatever. Doris [00:12:27]:Right, not rent, but check them out. Valerie Ellis [00:12:28]:I love that you brought that up because, you know, that’s part of our mission with our everyday parables. And I think maybe with my non profit background, just thinking about like, not everyone can afford to bring books into their home. And so one thing that you can do as like a Christian person on mission who cares about your community is request Christian books at the local library. So I mean, I feel like that’s how Share the Joy got in these places is because people around the country thinking about like, what books do I want just children to find in my community and happen upon that are like, oh, this is a fun lift, lift the flat book. And then they encounter Jesus. And so that’s something that most libraries have set up that you can do online. It’s just a really good way to be missional. But then also thinking about, we do a lot of book recommendations on our everyday parables and a lot of them are not necessarily Christian books. Valerie Ellis [00:13:23]:They’re books that you can easily find at your library. And so we show parents and caregivers how to use those books to talk about faith, even if the book isn’t necessarily about Jesus. There are word pictures or there are situations or there are values that you can use to talk about faith with kids. And so that’s just a way that if you don’t have all the money to buy all the books you want, it’s a way that you can still bring up those conversations in those fun ways for kids. Doris [00:13:52]:And I love that your site does that, you know, everyday parables because it, you’re vetting these books for families, you know, you’re going through them and you’re not recommending anything that’s going to have kind of off messages that don’t line up, you know, with our values, you know, Christian values. And like you said, even though it’s not necessarily always going to be a Christian book that you recommend, it’s not going to have anything in there that’s going to conflict with our Christian values. So I think that’s important for families, you know, just for some guidance there in that department because there’s so much out there now. It’s like, so it’s good to have some wisdom in that department. And so, yeah, I’m glad we touched on that because it makes a great gift. It’s evergreen. You could do it every year. And it’s fun. Doris [00:14:44]:You know, we’ve, we’ve had those books that our kids might have wanted us to read all the time that we didn’t really love that much. And it was like, oh, that book again, you know, but, you know, so. So it’s fun to have books that, you know, adults also enjoy and how you incorporate fun for, you know, the importance of adults also experiencing that kind of fun when they open your books. And they are beautifully illustrated as well as beautifully written. So that’s cool. So if you could talk a little bit about, like, that when the book came out about the Bible Adventures, you know, and I especially said before we started recording that I love that you included the ice cream truck, because that’s something nostalgic, even for all of us. You know, I was just. I was telling you that we had two different ice cream trucks in our neighborhood that would come around. Doris [00:15:44]:We had the Pied Piper and then we had the Good Humor trucks. So there was one we kind of liked better than the other, but either one we would take. And at that time, you could find, like, I don’t know, even I said a quarter earlier, but I probably could have found a. A dime or something in the sofa and that would have been enough to buy something. But I mean, not anymore. But anyway, so if you want to kind of talk a little bit about that, and also, because you mentioned earlier, and I think this is very important, you know, how difficult or what was the process like incorporating the. The biblical truth into the books and making sure that it was biblically sound and fun as fault. Valerie Ellis [00:16:25]:Yes. So when I had the idea for let’s Go Bible Adventures, and I’ll hold that up too, I. So here it is, so beautifully illustrated with the cars and trucks on the front, but then the biblical characters in their biblical dress, which, you know, as a parent, if I were to see that in a bookstore, I might have a little bit of cognitive dissonance. Like, this does not go together. What is happening. And so when I had the idea, I knew I wanted to keep it biblically sound because I, you know, that was. The whole point was to teach kids the Bible. I didn’t want to have to, like, reteach them when they’re older or introduce something into the story that wasn’t really there. Valerie Ellis [00:17:04]:And so for a minute I was like, I think this isn’t going to work after all. But then I thought, you know, kids love when we’re silly. You know, like, when you’re asking silly questions, it really can get their buy in. Like, do these PJ pants go on your head? No. Do they go on your arms? No. Where do they go? Oh, they go on your legs. And so that’s kind of the take we have with this book. So they. Valerie Ellis [00:17:29]:It introduces the character and their problem on the first spread. And then it asks a silly question. So, like, here’s Jonah. He’s running away from what God’s called him to do. And it’s all in rhyme, but I’m not going to say it in rhyme right now. But basically the silly question is, he’s in the ocean. Did God rescue Jonah with a submarine? Like, what did God do? And so then the kids get to be the smart ones, and they’re like, no, no, that’s silly. And so when I’m doing classroom visits, I’ll coach the kids. Valerie Ellis [00:17:58]:I’ll be like, now, this is when you say how silly that is. That’s ridiculous. And they love to do that. And so then we turn the page and we see what really happened. Like, no, that wasn’t it. This is what happened. You know, God sent a big fish to rescue Jonah. He told the Ninevites about God. Valerie Ellis [00:18:14]:Um, and they all turned their lives over to God, and it was an amazing miracle. And so there’s a takeaway, like a biblically sound takeaway that’s perfect for their age. And then it ends with a refrain that every refrain ends with. We’re on an adventure with God. Let’s go. And so by the time you’ve read two or three stories, they’re saying that part with you, which was kind of the idea. And then it’s just fun because, you know, as parents or grandparents, you’re going about your day. You’re going to see these trucks. Valerie Ellis [00:18:43]:You’re going to see the ice cream truck. You’re going to see the garbage truck and the bulldozer and all of these things. And so then you can even, like, remind about the story. Like, remember when we had read that silly story? And is that what God did? Like, no, this is God, you know, plan and God’s love for you. And so it’s been really fun. It’s been really fun to watch kids, like, really pick it. And I’ve had parents say, like, every night that’s what they want to read. Or one mom said, we got the package. Valerie Ellis [00:19:15]:I was in the middle of making dinner, and my child asked to open it. So I was like, okay, even though I’m really busy. And then they wanted to read it so much that I couldn’t pass up on that opportunity. So I just paused the dinner. We read the entire thing because they were just so excited about it. And she’s like, even my little one, who doesn’t like books came over and like, sat with us and read it. So, I mean, things like that have been great because that’s the whole point is just to get kids interested in God’s Word and provide that introduction where then parents can go deeper. And each story has the scripture reference. Valerie Ellis [00:19:51]:So if parents want to look up the real story and see, you know, more of the details, because I know a lot of us are learning these stories along with our kids. Right. Some people weren’t raised in church or they weren’t, you know, discipled in that way or they just forgot. I mean, there’s so many things, honestly, that I’m like, what’s that? This or that? You know, I don’t remember. And so it’s great to be able to look up that. That passage. So. Doris [00:20:15]:Yeah, and I like that you brought that point up that not every adult was raised in a Christian home or was raised where they were familiar with these Bible studies and Bible stories and all of that, because maybe they never went to Sunday school or, you know, anything to do with children’s ministries or VBS or anything like that. So it’ good that they can also learn as they read. And. And the fact being that when kids see these cues when they’re out in everyday life, which is what you kind of your heart is, you know, for kids to make those connections for everyday moments, you know, that God is with us every moment and just reminders when they see one of these vehicles or, you know, and how. How it will click and how it’s a great, like, teachable moment to talk about. Oh, well, what does that remind you of? What Bible story did we talk about that you saw this truck it or whatever. And especially when kids are in the car because it’s like captive audience time. And so that’s really cool. Doris [00:21:28]:And I love that so much and how you did incorporate the truth into all of it and made it fun for the kids. And it’s so great too, because, like, you were saying that kids love these types of vehicles and things like that. And it, it reminded me too, of how VBS has a theme usually, you know, every year. And there’s like, I don’t know, every church in the area has a VBS during the summer usually. And a lot of families go from one VBS to the other. So it’s good to kind of coordinate when your VBS week is so that it’s not at the same time as other churches so that kids can have like a span across the whole summer of, you know, hearing God’s word. But then the themes, you know, are fun and just to kind of connect that to everyday life. And, like, how does. Doris [00:22:21]:How does this all connect? And how can I, you know, learn more about God through my everyday activities and things like that? So I think that’s awesome. Your newest book, how did that come into play? And if you could tell us a little bit about that, and I think I named one of the animals that maybe we could talk about that you. That you cover in the book? Valerie Ellis [00:22:45]:Yes. So it’s the Wild Faith Devotional for kids. And it is 52 animals, like you said at the top. And so here’s the COVID So it is. It came about because, you know, as I was writing let’s Go, I was also thinking about just other ways to minister to parents and kids. And I had this notebook, and I just laid it out on my, you know, somewhere. I walked by all the time on my counter, and any idea I had, I would just jot down. And my brain thinks in analogies. Valerie Ellis [00:23:19]:So this book really was like a dream come true for me because I got to make all of these connections between the animal traits or behaviors and how. How we can approach the Christian life, you know, with that as our inspiration. So at the top, you met or at before we started recording, you mentioned the sloth, which I think is such a great one. And so just as an example, the sloth we all know is very slow. And kids are really loving slots right now. And so they move very slow. They, especially on land, they’re a little quicker in water, but it’s not because they’re lazy. It’s not because we need to think of them as that way. Valerie Ellis [00:24:01]:They have a very slow metabolism, and so moving slowly is just the right speed for them. And so we talk about in the devotion how, you know, we go at different speeds throughout our lives, but we can’t always just go fast. We can’t. We have to take time to slow down, because that’s how we were made to take time. Sometimes we are moving quickly, and sometimes we need to slow down. And so just helps kids think about, like, how can I take some more time to think about God and just meditate on him and give some practical tips? And then a fun fact about the sloth, and I have to look it up. I’m like, what is the fun fact that we said about the sloth? Because there are 52 of them. Doris [00:24:45]:That’s what I love, too, about the book, because you have fun facts that are very fascinating. You know, things like, I didn’t know that, you know, and some people might, but some people might not. It’s like, you know, like the catfish, how it can taste all over. That’s one of my favorite sensory all over its body. Valerie Ellis [00:25:02]:Yes, I know catfish aren’t the most, like, trendy animal, but that is one of my favorite devotions because I love the verse, taste and see that the Lord is good, that we link. And so how the catfish does have, like you said, taste buds all over its body to sense that. And we can grow in how we sense God around us and remember that he is good. So each devotion has an illustration and a photo, which I am so excited that the publisher, Waterbrook, was able to do that. Jen Bricking was the illustrator. She’s amazing. And so then each one also has a make it stick, which is kind of like, let’s take a minute and think about what we just read. Because I know my kids, you know, they like to just read, read it, close it, then they’re done. Valerie Ellis [00:25:53]:But it is that thinking that meditating and thinking about how to apply it to our lives or maybe how it has already applied to our lives. Think back to something God has done for you. So this one says, for the sloth, it says, relax your body and take a slow, deep breath. Thank God that he’s designed us for a peaceful, healthy pace. So it just takes less than a minute, you know, to do that. But it’s something that can help kids kind of ground that in their hearts and minds. And then there’s a live it out. So with this one, it says, ask your parents to help you set an alarm to go off once a day this week so the whole family can pause to pray and remember the restful peace of Jesus. Valerie Ellis [00:26:33]:So a fun thing. And families can, you know, tweak it to fit their schedule, but something that the kids can do and kind of lead the family maybe and be like, hey, guys, this is something important. Let’s do this together. And then the fun fact is, sloth spent up to 90% of their lives upside down. They can eat, sleep, and even give birth this way. So, yes. Doris [00:26:58]:Oh, that is very relatable. I think sometimes we feel like we’re moving slow and we’re upside down. Right. It’s, like, so fun. Valerie Ellis [00:27:06]:Definitely. Doris [00:27:07]:And how you incorporated into these are principles that adults need, too. So that’s cool. And these make great gifts. And so you could do it with your own kids, your grandkids, your nieces, nephews. You can give it as gifts for baby showers. You know, different things. Like that, which is fun. Although this, this particular devotional book is geared to a little bit older child than your previous books, which I love too, because it, you know, it brings in kind of a different demographic because some of the kids, you know, in families are different ages. Doris [00:27:47]:So there’s something for everybody, but we can all learn from that. And it kind of reminds me too. And I. Which is another reason why I love. I love talking about the sloth. When I was riding my youngest grandson to school one morning, and he. He’s in his last year of middle school now, so he’s kind of grown and, you know, doesn’t need Gammy as much or to ride him to school, whatever. But we were riding one day, I picked him up from his house, and his neighbor was a little older lady, and she was walking down her driveway. Doris [00:28:23]:I don’t know if she was gonna put mail out in the mailbox or something. And I said, hunter, it looks like your neighbor’s moving a little slow this morning. Maybe she’s not feeling so good. Maybe we can pray for her and, you know, maybe she’s having a hard day today. And so he said, well, that’s what old peoples do. They move slow like a sloth. Oh, goodness, so funny. Which, of course, I mean, it. Doris [00:28:57]:It wasn’t meant to be, like, sarcastic, you know, he wasn’t being unkind. That was just like how his mind. Valerie Ellis [00:29:04]:Thought connection is there. Doris [00:29:06]:Old people move slow. Hey know, so we can all slow down, you know, even young people. But. But anyway, so that’s why I love how you have these principles in your books too. So like we said, this one is already out. So if you’re looking for some great gift ideas for Christmas, these books make wonderful gifts. And also to, like you said earlier, voice your opinion about what books you want in your library. You know, you have a voice. Doris [00:29:37]:You can actually request things like that and ask for that and even in local bookstores and things like that. So. And I love that you go and you talk to the schools and you talk to the. The youth pastors, the children’s pastors, you know, kind of thing, and. And bring these books to life and just. Just have a reading time. I mean, sometimes we might look for things to do, especially if maybe someone out there listening right now is an empty nester. I always like to say our nests are full. Doris [00:30:11]:They’re not really empty. But I mean, that is the definite term when your kids are grown and out. Or maybe you’re just. You’ve just retired and you’re looking for some things to do, you could volunteer and have like, you know, maybe a, a story time at your library or a local bookstore or something. And I’m sure that they would be open to having people do that. And I have to say, I love rhyming books. Some people, you know, they have different opinions about rhyming books. And I love rhyming books. Doris [00:30:39]:I just think it’s so fun and it keeps me going, you know, especially when the kids were, were younger. I always loved and the grandkids too. I loved when we had rhyming books because it was just fun for me and it didn’t get boring. And I could read the same book over and over because I like the rhymes. Yes, they are fun, but yeah, they’re so fun. And you know, Valerie, I know we, as being in book camp and other book type conferences we’ve been to and things like that, we usually hear that the statistics of people who feel like there’s a book in them are pretty high. You know, there’s a lot of people out there who feel like, yeah, I think I want to write a book. And there’s a lot of people out there maybe even listening right now who has thought about writing children’s books. Doris [00:31:26]:And so do you have any, like, tips on like, how to format, you know, what, what do you, how do you start with that? Or what is your process? I know everybody’s process might be different, but. But what, what kind of advice or encouragement would you give to someone listening right now who maybe is thinking about doing. Valerie Ellis [00:31:44]:That’s a good question. And it’s such a varied answer depending on, you know, the type of book that you’re wanting to write and things like that. But I would say advice that is always given is to read a lot of children’s books that are coming out in the past one to three years to see kind of what the market is and just to have fun. You know, I think that even like you said as adults, we need ways to bring more fun into our walks with God, into. I mean, it’s not, it’s not bad to say I want my walk with God to be fun. I mean, certainly there are parts that, you know, we are persevering, we’re serving. It’s not all about us, but God wants us to enjoy Him. And so, you know, if, if it’s a Christian book that you’re looking to write, there are a lot of great ones out there that you could read or I would say also read general market books because they, they’re Some of the funniest ones. Valerie Ellis [00:32:47]:And I can find, if you want, in a minute, a little list that I made for another podcast I’m going to be on of some books that I would say are great for all ages. And then another tip I would say is just balance your input and output. So when I first started, that was a mistake I made is I had this idea, and I just wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote, and then I got input, and so I eventually joined scbwi, which is the Society for Book Writers and Illustrators. I joined Book Camp. I’m sorry, it’s the Society for Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators. I don’t know if I said that correctly, because it is specifically for children. And then boot camp’s more for, like, that broader audience. And I got feedback from editors and things like that, but I could have saved myself a lot of time if I’d done that more balance. Valerie Ellis [00:33:42]:If I’d written a little bit and then gotten feedback. Written a little bit and then gotten feedback. So I would say that’s definitely something I would probably go back and change because it’s like, okay, now I have this finished thing. Oh, wait, I need to change a lot of things about this. So that’s what I would say. And then just as far as, like, I touched for a second on making your relationship with God fun. I mean, that’s something I love about kids. Being in the kids book industry is just. Valerie Ellis [00:34:12]:Kids are experts at joy and wonder and curiosity. And so I would say spend some time with kids, you know, and see what it is that lights them up and what they, you know, what they can teach you. They’re amazing. And how they get excited about. You know, maybe what we would say is a small thing we could learn from that and. And decide, like, today I’m going to get ridiculously excited about one thing in my day. I don’t know what it’s going to be, but that is my goal today. To get just so excited and. Valerie Ellis [00:34:46]:And kind of tap into that children’s mindset is going to also help your writing, but also just your day. Doris [00:34:53]:Wow, I love that. And I’m gonna just say that again because that’s a great tip for all of us that we need to get ridiculously excited about something in our day, like, every day. That’s just, you know, it’s fun, fun. And when we take that perspective, it kind of gives us, like, a mind shift. You know, instead of looking at our calendar, you know, we. We get up in the morning and have our coffee or our tea or whatever we do in the morning, our health shake or whatever. And then we think about all the things on our calendar that day that we’re like, oh, man, I don’t know, you know, if I can get through the day and then pick something to be ridiculously excited about. And it would. Doris [00:35:39]:Yeah, And I love that. I mean, of course we can be ridiculously excited about Jesus, which is fun, and just the ways and the divine appointments and how he will use each and every thing that we have on our, you know, calendar. Valerie Ellis [00:35:54]:So, right. It goes back to like Thessalonians, right, Where it says, give thanks in all circumstances. Our circumstances today, you know, might be mundane or even really, really hard, but, you know, when we are looking for God, he can give us something to be thankful for. Doris [00:36:11]:Yeah. Amen. I love that very much. It’s a great reminder. And also, thank you for mentioning. And I’ll put those in the show notes, those places where people can get plugged in and what great advice to read books in the genre that you want to write in, but also, you know, just expand that horizon a little bit, but also seek wisdom from people who have been there. You know, don’t be afraid to put your writing out there and be open to critiquing, because sometimes we can be a little defensive about things, and that could be in anything we do, you know, if we want to, you know, an idea we have. Sometimes we get a little defensive if someone doesn’t like our idea or something like that. Doris [00:36:53]:But we really need to be open. I mean, there’s. There’s also the kind of critiques that could be more critical versus helpful. So, you know, just God will give us kind of the discernment about what to. What to receive and to actually take a good hard look at ourselves. You know, is it something prideful? Are we just not wanting to be told to do? Or maybe, you know, it’s something where if I do this, it will make it better and this just kind of work through it that way. But. But to work with people who know the industry and fact being that, you know, whether you are traditionally published, which often takes a lot more time than self published, you can also self publish. Doris [00:37:40]:But just thinking along those lines, but be. Be part of communities that can, you know, off or even like have your own writing accountability group where, you know, you have writers of different levels or some seasoned writers, some newer writers, and just share your writing amongst each other and do it that way. It might feel a little bit more safe to start that way even too. Valerie Ellis [00:38:07]:Yes. My first critique group was friends that were teachers, librarians and children’s pastors, you know, who I knew had a. Maybe they were not professional or, or aspiring writers, but they had a handle on, you know, like good flow and they knew what was out there in the market and they knew kids. And so that was definitely my first safe group. And then I kind of branched out to like strangers like other aspiring writers and then eventually even paid for some critiques from editors and agents because, you know, not because I wanted to hear the hard things, and sometimes it is hard, but because I knew that I wanted this book to serve kids the best way possible. And I didn’t take every critique or every suggestion, but I took a lot of them because I was like, you know, maybe at first it would be like, what? No. And then I’d think about it and be like, yeah, and just trying to make that product to serve kids. So definitely get that community. Valerie Ellis [00:39:07]:It’s important. Doris [00:39:09]:Yeah, that’s great. Thank you for sharing that about your own experience because I think that’s important and, and your books have won awards and that, you know, that’s just confirmation that, you know, not that we just seek to be award winning authors, but when a book that we’ve written that we feel like God has helped us get through it and just sharing his messages and his truth with the world to be recognized in that way is, is, you know, great. And it affirms the fact being that you’ve put something of quality out that can really make an impact on others. Because there’s a lot of books out there that, because anybody self publish a book. So if you are thinking of even doing that on your own, you know, invest a little bit in an editor, you know, someone that can go through it for you. And whether it be a content and grant grammar. How do you say that? Valerie Ellis [00:40:09]:Grammatical. Doris [00:40:09]:Grammatical or whatever. Yeah. Thanks Teach. You know, so just like you want to put some quality, you want to put quality out there, you know, especially if you’re, if you’re sharing the truth of the word of God, you don’t want it to be distracting in, in ways that it shouldn’t be and distract from the message because of maybe the way it’s written or whatever. So. And not every writer is good at that. And thank the Lord for editors, you know, he’s equipped people to do that, who love to do that, who are gifted to do that and that’s like their job. So that’s great. Doris [00:40:48]:And then if you are with a traditional, a Publisher, they’ll have, you know, editors and have people work with you to get that into fruition. Because I know like in children’s books there’s different guidelines to follow, right. Like how many words to a page and you know, total word count for an entire book depending on what level it is. And you know, summer board books and some are picture books and some are, you know, this and that. You know, there’s different, different types. So to be, you know, do your homework. Valerie Ellis [00:41:18]:Right. I think it was Lisa, Lisa Terkeurst who said that she, you know, now when you read her writing you see like maybe some unconventional capitalization and things like that. She’s like, but before I could break the rules, I had to follow the rules. And I love that because I think there is room for innovation. But you know, I mean even Picasso was like a classically trained artist before he went off and did his, you know, groundbreaking things. So I think that’s why is what you’re saying, Doris. I love it. Doris [00:41:49]:Wow, that’s great advice too in that you brought up Lisa Turker’s quote that she shared about. About that before she could break the rules, she had to follow him. Valerie Ellis [00:41:59]:Yeah, it’s not. I probably, sorry, Lisa. I’m probably butchering that but. Doris [00:42:04]:Oh, that’s golden. Valerie Ellis [00:42:05]:Yeah, it was, it was good, you know, that good nugget of truth that. Yeah. Like we, we need each other and we, we can innovate but then it’s always helpful to know like to have that foundation to innovate on. Right? Doris [00:42:19]:Yeah. So true. That firm foundation we need, which is, you know, so biblical to have firm foundation, you know, in Jesus and, and what God is doing in and through our lives and we’re all called to do different things, so. And I think too the test market of reading it to the kids because I written, you know, in a Bible study book, but I also have like kids books that I’ve written some kids books but. And I’ve got a fiction novel that I’ve worked on that was like the very first thing I started working on was a fiction novel. And it’s been, golly, I don’t know, did I start that in like 2010 or so? I mean it’s been around a long while on my sitting on my computer. But I know that I haven’t like, I’ve more so in the nonfiction arena have gone to trainings, been part of memberships for writers and those kind of things, you know, conferences, taking classes and doing courses that were kind of all geared toward the non fiction type genre. So I know that I’m not really. Doris [00:43:29]:I’m missing a lot for the fiction part or the children’s book part. And I need some help with that. Like, I need somebody who knows what they’re doing and people who have been there to kind of look at it and say, well, this is. This is too long, or this doesn’t flow, or, you know, like we were saying earlier. So we need people in our lives to look at it because we might read something we wrote and go, oh, that’s pretty good. And then somebody else reads it and goes, I don’t get it. I don’t quite get what you’re trying to say here. So we need clarification on that. Doris [00:44:04]:And also to, you know, especially writing a novel, there’s so many facets. So, you know, we want to make sure that all the loose ends get tied up and nobody’s left kind of hanging. It’s like, well, whatever happened to this other side subplot? Nothing. Like, you didn’t talk any more about it and what happened with that, you know, so sometimes we might miss things. So. And I’m kind of like a pantser, I think they call it, where you just kind of write. Let it write itself. Yeah. Doris [00:44:36]:Yes, yes. So I love that. But anyway, anyway, well, I am so thankful to have you back on. It’s been so fun, Valerie, to revisit and just kind of see what you’re up to and all the wonderful things that you’ve got coming out and. And what’s going on. And if you have, like, maybe a last bit of encouragement, encouragement you want to share with the listener today. Valerie Ellis [00:45:01]:You know, I would say that when you are. When you have kids in your life, they may not be the best at expressing gratitude for the impact you’re having in the moment, but to stay with it, because it does make a difference, that investment. You know, in these years. My kids now are 14 and 11, and I feel like I’m definitely in that part where it’s like, well, I’m probably not going to see them be like, thanks, mom, for doing this, or. I mean, they do say thank you times, but you know what I mean, like, for all the things that I’m doing. But I know that it’s. This is a short, precious time. So whether it’s in children’s ministry, youth ministry, or your grandkids or your kids or just the neighborhood kids, you know, just know how much it matters, and God sees what you’re doing even when you might not get that thank you from A human person. Doris [00:45:58]:So, yeah, that’s beautiful encouragement right there. It kind of remind me a little bit about. I had Kate Battistelli on the show just a little while ago, and she said, we’re raising them to go. So as our kids get older or our grandkids get older or, you know, we have friends that have kids and they’re kind of struggling in the area of they’re getting older and they’re kind of doing their own thing and they start driving on their own and they don’t really need you to ride them anymore. And, you know, things like that. It’s different seasons in our lives. And so I love that encouragement that you just gave that they may not always express what they actually are feeling and we may never know, like, sometimes too, which I know my daughter did this some. I think it was like an assignment in school or some contest that she entered and she had to write some. Doris [00:46:52]:Something about a person that made an impact on her life or something. And she wrote it about me and then she said all these things and I’m like, so heartwarming. But sometimes it’s hard for kids to express, like you said, the gratitude or what they’re truly feeling and what their experiences are. And it is kind of fun to ask your kids how they experience different events that had happened in your family or how they remember or recall different traditions that you did at Christmas and things like that, because different kids will remember different things. And I think that that’s pretty precious too. So. But anyway, well, thank you so much, Valerie. I would love if you would share how can the listener connect with you and find all your amazing books and your everyday parables resources and those kind of things. Valerie Ellis [00:47:40]:Okay, well, let me start out by saying that each book has an activity pack. And so even if you don’t get the books, you can get the resources for free on my website. And so that’s Valerie Ellis.com and then you can go to our everyday parables.com for book reviews and those how to talk about God in the everyday moment ideas and just family traditions like you talk about. We talk about Christmas, we talk about back to school and all of those different, you know, seasons. And then I’m on Instagram at I am Valerie Ellis. And so I like to share book news there and also book recommendations. And there was one more thing I wanted to say about school visits. So, yes. Valerie Ellis [00:48:26]:So my website, Valerielis.com is also where you can learn about school visits, speaking engagements, speak to moms, groups like mops and we’re now called the Mom Company and, you know, conferences and things like that. So I’d love to talk to different groups. So. Yeah. Doris [00:48:43]:Nice. Yeah, I love how you brought that up. About Mops is now known as Mom Mom Co. Right. Valerie Ellis [00:48:51]:They did some rebranding because they didn’t want to be like a kitchen, a tool, and she cleaned the floor. I get it. But all of us are having a hard time remembering that that’s what it’s called now. Doris [00:49:03]:Yeah. So, yeah, because in the original name, it was kind of geared toward preschoolers. Right. But is it that a different. Have they expanded on that branding, too? Valerie Ellis [00:49:13]:Right. So they are. They were mothers of preschoolers. That’s where the MOPS came from. And then they had mom’s neck when they wanted to expand to moms who, you know, maybe their kids aren’t in preschool anymore, but they still want that community. And then they combined all of it into the Mom Co. So any age your kids are, you can find support and community at a group by you. So. Valerie Ellis [00:49:35]:Yeah. Doris [00:49:37]:So smart, you know, to do that. So I love that. But anyway, wow. So this has been so fun, and I hope to have you on again. Valerie Ellis [00:49:44]:Oh, I’m so excited. Thank you, Doris. It’s been a pleasure. Doris [00:49:47]:Yeah, I know there’s gonna be more that you’ve got going on that we’ll want to hear about. And thank you so much for listening today. I know what Valerie shared has encouraged you, and please reach out to her if you have any questions about anything discussed in the show. I will have all the links in the show notes so you can find her. Reach out to her and grab her amazing books to give as gifts to keep for your family and just other resources and ways that you can share the love of Christ with your family and others and just, you know, continually focus on God. And so I just love that so much. You can also, if you have neighborhood clubs, you know, there’s a lot of clubs out there. You know, I kind of think about the Good News Club and that kind of thing. Doris [00:50:36]:They have their own curriculum and all, but some families have started, like, clubs in their backyard and those kind of things. So this would be perfect. Some of these resources to use for that. And, friends, I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who’s taking action, where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I will talk to you soon.

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this episode, host Doris sits down with Melissa McLaughlin, an author, teacher, and speaker, who writes to uplift and inspire followers of Christ.. Melissa opens up about her faith journey, including her unexpected bout with debilitating health issues that led her to an unexpected and unplanned early retirement from her teaching career. What could have been a season of loss became a time of deep spiritual renewal, as Melissa rediscovered her identity in Christ and found new ways to connect with God through scripture-based prayer. Out of her darkest moments came her first book, In Dark of Night When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus, Pray for Me, designed to help those who struggle with prayer find their voice again through scripture. Melissa also shares how her second book, The Whole Bible Devotional: Seeing Jesus in Every Book of the Bible, was inspired by her own challenges with reading the Bible all the way through, and her desire to help others see the big-picture story of Jesus woven throughout all the books of the Bible. Join us for an encouraging conversation about hope, identity, and the power of God, Who creates beauty from ashes. Whether you’re in a season of uncertainty, desire to deepen your prayer life, or looking for fresh ways to engage with Scripture, Melissa’s story and resources will inspire you to keep seeking God’s purpose—no matter what twists and turns life may bring. We’re Talking About This Amazing Devotional and More! Florida Women’s Ministry Leadership Conference mentioned in the intro: Episode Highlights and Takeaways … 1. Introduction to Melissa McLaughlin Roles and identity: teacher, writer, wife, mom, speaker, prayer leader, overcomer Passion for pursuing Christ with biblical truth, grace, and prayer Brief overview of her books: “In Dark of Night When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus, Pray For Me” “The Whole Bible Devotional: Seeing Jesus in Every Book of the Bible” Context of her writing coming from personal struggles Doris’s introduction and excitement about the conversation 2. Melissa’s Personal Faith Journey Growing up in a Christian home Making her faith her own during college years Becoming a teacher and her passion for education Marriage and raising three grown children 3. The Impact of Health Challenges Long history of back problems leading to debilitating health issues at age 50 Forced, early, and unexpected retirement from teaching Struggles with loss: health, job, and sense of identity Spiritual wrestling: questioning God’s plan and lack of healing 4. Rediscovering Identity in Christ God “peeling back” layers of false identity Coming to see herself as a child of God, identity rooted in Jesus Faith being deepened and transformed through suffering 5. Losing and Regaining the Voice to Pray Feeling unable to pray during her darkest moments Returning to Scripture and learning to pray aloud from the Bible Rewriting Scripture into personalized prayers Restoration of her prayer life: God’s words empowering her prayers 6. The Birth of Her First Book Decision to write for others struggling to pray Combining teaching, compassion, and personal pain into her writing Purpose and design of “In Dark of Night When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus, Pray For Me” A prayer guide using Scripture for those struggling to pray or seeking to refresh prayer life 7. Transitioning from Teaching to New Ministry Letting go of her expected career path Recognizing how God repurposes gifts for new seasons The unexpected call to writing and blogging 8. Encouragement for Listeners Facing Unexpected Change Reflection on how God is never surprised by our circumstances Importance of not finding identity solely in career or roles Trusting God’s faithfulness to unfold new things 9. Struggles and Strategies in Reading the Bible Personal experience of reading the Bible fully as a teenager Attempts to encourage her children to read the Bible, and the challenges they faced Disappointment over not completing a family Bible reading plan 10. Creation of the Second Book: The Whole Bible Devotional Desire to help people get the “big picture” of the Bible and see Jesus throughout Scripture Structure and purpose of the book: Non-academic, accessible Bible overview 66 representative Scripture passages, one from each book of the Bible Prayers accompanying each passage, focusing on Jesus’s role across Scripture Suitable as a 66-day devotional for deeper Bible engagement 11. Teaching as a Calling Beyond the Classroom Understanding that her core gift of teaching could be used in new formats Comparing experiences with Doris regarding finding new avenues to teach 12. Practical Guidance for Bible Reading and Study Difference between reading through and studying the Bible The benefit of structured plans for reading large sections Importance of context and seeing the Bible as a whole 13. Process and Discernment in Selecting Devotional Scriptures Details on the five-year journey to select the 66 passages Reading one chapter a day and prayerfully discerning key verses Consulting study Bibles and biblical resources Seeking to highlight how Christ is present in every book 14. The Transformational Power of the Project Personal spiritual impact on Melissa during the writing process Emphasis on patience and allowing God’s timing 15. Central Themes of Her Devotional Seeing Jesus as present from Genesis to Revelation Understanding Jesus beyond just the New Testament/manger story The significance of Jesus as Savior AND Lord 16. The Need for a High View of Scripture and Christ Importance of filtering all teachings through the Bible Jesus as the eternal Word, present from the beginning The fullness of Christ: mercy, righteousness, justice, lordship 17. Addressing Modern Misconceptions About Jesus Tendency toward emphasizing only grace and love Balanced understanding of repentance, lordship, and salvation through Jesus alone The danger of “multiple ways to God” and affirming Jesus’s claim as the only way 18. Encouragement for Listeners in Difficult Seasons Personal words for those facing pain or loss Assurance that God sees, loves, and can use broken places for His glory The power of waiting on God and trusting in His continued work 19. Resources and Ways to Connect with Melissa Website and blog: melissamclaughlin.org Free subscription with prayer resources Blog content: devotionals, Bible studies, prayers, poetry Books available on Amazon and major retailers Social media presence: Facebook, Instagram, X/Twitter, Pinterest Invitation to reach out for prayer or encouragement 20. Closing Thoughts and Exhortation Reminder that endings often lead to new beginnings Encouragement to trust God’s bigger plan Affirmation of listeners’ value and place in God’s story Invitation to future episodes and continuing community Connect with Melissa! You can connect with Melissa at melissamclaughlin.org Email – melissa.melissamclaughlin.orgX/Twitter – https://x.com/MMcLaughlinsongFacebook – https://www.facebook.com/melissa.mclaughlin.7906/Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/melissamclaughlinwriter/Pinterest – https://www.pinterest.com/MelissaMcLaughlinTruthfulGrace/Amazon link to The Whole Bible Devotional – https://a.co/d/cPXLDlUAmazon link to Whisker, Wags, and Woofs – https://a.co/d/4D3jF1BAmazon link to In Dark of Night When Words Fail – https://a.co/d/iunv6Hr Melissa McLaughlin is a writer, teacher, and speaker. She loves encouraging others through her faith and words. Having retired from her career as a public school teacher, she now writes and speaks about her passion, Jesus Christ. She holds Bachelor’s Degrees in Elementary Education and Special Education, as well as a Master’s degree as a Reading Specialist. In addition, she earned a Certificate in Foundations of Biblical Studies, which complements her teaching degrees as she writes to uplift and inspire followers of Christ. Melissa co-hosted a Writer’s Workshop and numerous Bible studies and prayer groups at her local church. She is currently hosting a summer Zoom Bible study with people from many locations. During the darkest seasons of her life, Melissa lost her voice to pray. God led Melissa to use Scriptures to articulate her prayers. Melissa’s voice was restored, and her faith was reignited. Melissa’s powerful prayer strategies are included in her first book, In Dark of Night When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus Pray for Me. God inspired Melissa to write her second book, The Whole Bible Devotional: Seeing Jesus in Every Book of the Bible, after struggling to read through the Bible with her family. Her goal with this book is to help others with today’s busy lifestyles grasp the Bible’s main message and see Jesus throughout the Scriptures. Melissa has won several awards, including the Selah Award for her essay in the compilation, Whiskers, Wags, and Woofs: Poems and Heartfelt Essays for Dog and Cat Lovers; the Silver Selah for her article in Refresh Bible Study Magazine; the Christlist Award for The Whole Bible Devotional. Melissa enjoys walks in nature, soaking in the sights and sounds of God’s wonderful creation. One of her greatest delights is spending time with her husband, young adult children, and family. Melissa and her husband have two cats who fill their days with laughter and cuddles. What Threatens to Steal Your Joy? Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/ Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage! Love Fierce Calling? Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend! Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event… Thanks for Listening! I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value, purpose, and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift Let’s have a chat about your next event! Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned. Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you. I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect … Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon. With love and joy, Doris P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! Transcript Doris [00:01:43]:Welcome back to the show. I am excited today to introduce you to my friend, Melissa McLaughlin. She is a teacher, a writer, a wife, mom, speaker, prayer leader and an overcomer. I love that so much. She’s an author and her passion is pursuing Christ with biblical truth, spirit filled grace and fervent prayer which we so need. And I would love to tell you a little bit about her books she’s written. During a dark season in her life, which Melissa may share some about, she lost her voice to pray. So God led her to write this book so she could articulate prayers through scripture and it’s helping others to do the same. Doris [00:02:41]:It’s called in dark of Night when words fail, Voice of Jesus, pray for me. So. So in dark of night when words fail, voice of Jesus, pray for me. That’s beautiful. And also God inspired Melissa to write her second book, the Whole Bible Devotional Seeing Jesus in every book of the Bible, which is amazing because she had struggled with, you know, reading the Bible and getting through it and, and she is going to share all about that too. And now she’s helping others to be able to read scripture and be able to get through the Bible and have a new and fresh perspective and understanding of what they are read, reading in the word of God. So I am excited about this conversation today. Welcome to the show, Melissa. Melissa McLaughlin [00:03:25]:Thank you, Doris. Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here. Doris [00:03:29]:I am excited to have you on and talk about not only your books, but however the Lord leads. I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you’re currently taking action, where your passion, compassion and conviction intersect, your fierce calling. Melissa McLaughlin [00:03:48]:I love that. I, I just love your podcast. I love the theme of it and just how you’re pulling together all these elements of our lives and how God uses all these parts of us, you know, in powerful ways. So just to give a tiny little bit about my story. I was blessed to grow up in a Christian home, thank God, and gave my life to Christ as a young teenage and about in the college years. That’s when I really, I felt like I, my faith became my own. I took hold of it to a new level. I became a teacher, was married my husband. Melissa McLaughlin [00:04:25]:We have three children grown now on their own. Wonderful kids. Blessings. And it was during my teaching career I thought that I would be a teacher to the last day. I loved teaching, loved the kids. I still love learning. So just the whole process of learning and growing and stretching and learning new things, I just loved being A part of that as the teacher. But when I was about 50 years old, I had had back problems all my life. Melissa McLaughlin [00:04:58]:And when I was about 50 years old, I had a setback with my health that was totally debilitating. I was not able to drive or sit or do much of anything. Even basic living tasks were really difficult. And so I was, I was forced to take an unexpected and unwanted early retirement from my teaching career. And I really, really struggled with that. Wondering, like, just God, why aren’t you healing me? You know, what are you doing with us? I felt like I had been really gifted by God to be a teacher. So I didn’t understand why I was being taken from this place where I thought I was using my gifts and my talents. So I just was really struggling with a lot of things and just the physical pain as well. Melissa McLaughlin [00:05:48]:But it was really in God’s mercy because in that time I felt like I had lost so many things. I had lost my health, I had lost my job, you know, with the early retirement and I. And in the course of that I realized that I really felt like I lost my identity. And God in his mercy was actually like peeling back these layers of things that I, I was clinging to as my identity that really weren’t true. And so when everything else was gone and I was left with the Lord, I, I realized like he is my identity. You know, I’m a, I’m a child of God, you know, I’m a blood bought daughter of the King and that’s who I am. And my identity is based on Jesus and his finished work, not on my work, you know. And so it, you know, it became my faith just took on a new beautiful color and hue and facet in, in those moments of pain. Melissa McLaughlin [00:06:50]:But I’m not going to say that that happened overnight. That was a long process because in those, those dark moments, that’s when I really, I didn’t lose my faith by the grace of God, but I did lose my voice to pray. I felt like I had prayed everything that, that I could say and there was just nothing left. And so the Lord very gently, really just led me back to the Scriptures. And first I began praying the scriptures, reading them out loud as my prayer. And then I began taking portions of the scripture and re rewriting them in my own words as a prayer, in a prayer format. And it was like God restored my voice. And for the first time ever, I felt my, my prayers were so empowered because God’s words were coming through my words, you know, as I was praying back to him. Melissa McLaughlin [00:07:39]:And so he just did a beautiful work in my life through all of that. And it was in, at that point then that I was thinking, gee, I wonder if there’s someone else who’s going through a really hard time, maybe is struggling to pray because they’re going through so much pain. I wonder if this would be a help to them. So that’s where God took my passion for teaching, my gifts and talents for teaching, the compassion, which was, you know, coming from a place of really hurting and then putting that together to try to help someone else. So that’s my, my first book came out of that really low valley point in my life and a whole change in my life because I could never, I. I thought I was going to teach to the end. So I never, ever saw anywhere on my radar that I would be writing or that I would have a Christian blog or that I would have written, written books or be part of a compilation. It just, I couldn’t have imagined that. Melissa McLaughlin [00:08:37]:So God did something totally different with my life than I expected. And all of that came. It was the beauty from the ashes, really. Yeah. But yes, that was that first book, which is called In Dark of Night, When Words Fail, Voice of Jesus, Pray for Me. So that was that first book that was, that I first wrote from that time. And it’s really just a prayer guidebook for how to incorporate scriptures into your prayers. And it could be because you’re struggling to find the voice to pray, or it may also be because you would like to refresh your prayers or real reignite your prayers, you know, or. Melissa McLaughlin [00:09:17]:Or empower your prayers with God’s word. So it can be a blessing to many different people. I believe so. But that’s really how God took different parts of my life to use for his glory and also for my good. You know, I couldn’t have said that at the time, but I can say that now, you know. Doris [00:09:38]:Yeah, that is really beautiful. And you know, sharing about how this all kind of unfolded and it’s still unfolding because we just never know what God’s going to do next. But I love the things that you brought out and how you said that your early retirement was unexpected. And to encourage our listeners, we can see now how Melissa’s story began unfolding in different ways that she never could even have thought or imagined or asked, you know, and that’s what God does exceedingly, abundantly above what we ask or think. And so when you had mentioned that, the thought came to mind, you know, to just the encouragement that nothing is Unexpected for God, like he knows what’s going on. He knows what’s going to happen. So it wasn’t unexpected for God, even though it was unexpected for you. And I know we’ve all had things in our life that we just never expected would happen. Doris [00:10:40]:Good things and not so good things, but it’s never a surprise to God. So I love that. And how you brought out the fact that sometimes when we do something for so long, we can really get that confused, that it’s part of who we are. I mean, it’s part of what we do, but it’s not our identity. And so we have to be really careful because when those things leave or go, whether we walk away or something happens where it’s, you know, beyond our control or things like in your case that happened with your health and all that, we aren’t kind of putting our foundation in that. You know, it’s kind of like the wise man built his house upon the rock and not upon the sand. And so. So it was great that you brought that out. Doris [00:11:32]:I think that’s going to encourage someone right now because we. We can really look and see how God’s faithfulness has brought us through, but also, we just never know what he’s going to do. And. And it’s important for us to share our stories because time and again you hear so many stories, and especially, like, people who think, wow, maybe I’m of a certain age, and it’s like, that’s it for me. But that could just be the whole beginning of something brand new, you know, because there’s nothing new under the sun. But then God makes all things new, so it’s kind of cool. So I. I love that so much and how you help people to use scripture to pray. Doris [00:12:12]:But then you came upon this other struggle that you had as far as, like, reading through the Bible. And you love the Word of God, but even we love the word of God. Sometimes it can be challenging. So if you could share a little bit about how that came into play in your life and how now you are helping others to do what you have learned to do through the Lord’s leading. Melissa McLaughlin [00:12:38]:Yes, absolutely. So with my second book, it was another example of God working in these valley moments of my life. So I’m just backtracking a little bit. When I was about 16 years old, that’s when I first read through the Bible myself. I had heard that if you read three chapters a day, you could read through the Bible in a year. And I did. I didn’t, you know, there were days when I missed and I just picked up where I left off and kept on going. And there I didn’t understand all the big words. Melissa McLaughlin [00:13:09]:I didn’t understand all the theology, but I did draw closer to the Lord. I. I felt like I just felt more closer to him through doing that. And I continued reading the Bible, you know, reading it through or reading Bible studies or portions of it all through my adult years. So when my kids became teens, about that same time frame, I thought, oh, this would be great. I would love for them to have that same experience reading through the Bible from beginning to end. So I said the same thing. I said, hey, let’s read through together. Melissa McLaughlin [00:13:45]:We’ll do three chapters a day. We’ll all have a great time. And they were on board, they were excited. And we jumped right in and we started and then sputtered out and started again and tried to pick up where we left off, but eventually we just lost all momentum and gave up. We gave up. And I just. I felt so disappointed by that. I felt like I had let my kids down, I had let myself down, and I let the Lord down by not helping them experience that reading through the Bible, but in that place. Melissa McLaughlin [00:14:22]:I feel like in that place of sorrow, God planted this little seed of hope, you know, and that hope was that he could take even that and use this to help me help others who might be in a similar situation. So it wasn’t until after, actually several years after my first book was published and I was included in a compilation of other book of other stories that I was finally able to write my second book. And that’s the book that has recently been published, which is called the Whole Bible Devotional. Seeing Jesus in every book of the Bible. And what I did, that still came from where my heart was, still back in that place where. And it doesn’t have to be a young person. It could be someone of any age where maybe they don’t have the time or just are not in a place where they can pick up, you know, a heavy theological manual or they’re just not able to read from beginning to end. Or maybe there’s plenty of people who have actually read through the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation, but they get to the end and they can’t put the pieces together. Melissa McLaughlin [00:15:33]:They can’t see how this whole thing connects because it doesn’t. You know, it’s hard to see how those pieces connect. So. So God had just used that time in my life, and then I had, when I was at this new place in my life I was able to work on this and he again was using this whole teaching background that I have. This book consists of three main parts. The first part of the book, it is a non academic overview of the Bible so that people can get that big picture view and they can also see in that overview how Jesus is woven through every book of the Bible. The second component of the book is that I took excerpts from each book of the Bible. There’s 66 books in the Bible, so there’s 60, 66 excerpts, scripture readings, and they are representative texts. Melissa McLaughlin [00:16:28]:So you can, so each reader will get some important themes and topics and scriptures from each book of the Bible as they read through. Then going along the third piece of it, going along with those scripture excerpts, I have written a prayer and in that prayer I really try to highlight how Jesus is a part of this scripture passage that was just read. So in the course of 66 days people can read portions of the whole Bible and get that whole Bible view, see how Jesus is woven throughout and, and, and just get to experience God’s word in a fresh way that is not overwhelming, that is accessible, that is doable, and that helps to make it all come together and make it make sense from beginning to end. Doris [00:17:19]:So yeah, that’s amazing. And ti. I just also want to emphasize the teacher part because you know, you were trained to be a teacher. You went to school to be a teacher and you were a teacher for many years in a certain capacity. You taught different grade levels and really loved that. You love doing that. And then when you had to leave that, you, you felt like you were losing it. But God had other plans. Doris [00:17:48]:He’s like, you’re still a teacher, Melissa, you can still teach. It just may not look like what you thought it was going to look like. And, and I love that. And it kind of reminds me too because I thought I was going to be a teacher. I always wanted to be a teacher and I just wound up going in a different direction. But I still get to teach. So it looks different than what I thought it would look like. And so I think too, by your story, it’s, it’s a, like just something encouraging that we can look at how things are unfolding in our lives but not limit it. Doris [00:18:28]:Because God is limitless. Right? So when we limit what God can do in our lives or you know, just by our own mind, I mean we can’t fathom. I mean God’s ways are higher, his thoughts are higher. You know, we can’t really fathom some of what God has in store. But, but he does and we can trust him. And you writing this book where you’re helping to get people to connect the dots of the big picture story of Jesus and how, how it all points to him, you know, I think that’s so powerful and I think too it will encourage others to have a newfound enjoyment and love for reading scriptures, you know, reading the Bible, you know, digging in and actually studying the Bible because it’s a little different when we read through it and there’s a time for study and there’s a time for reading through because if we’re trying to read through, because that’s kind of where I would get hung up. Okay, so I start and I’m like, oh, that’s fascinating. I’m going to study this part and I’m going to look this up and I’m going to get this, you know, different resource and that resource and kind of figure out, oh, I wonder what that means in the Hebrew, I wonder what that means in the Greek, you know, and then I get kind of stuck on that passage. Doris [00:19:48]:And when it’s really, if I’m reading through the Bible, it’s really like having a plan is great because then you have a plan so that you can actually read through it. So there’s a time for reading through it and taking it in as kind of like one big meal and then there’s a time for studying where you can take bite size pieces whereas not taking things out of context and just being able to focus on the entire what’s happening, you know, where is this taking place, who’s the audience and all that. So I wonder how. Well, I’m sure it was the Holy Spirit, but, but how you kind of nailed down the 66 scriptures, you know, parts of scripture that you were going to put in this. Melissa McLaughlin [00:20:40]:Well, this took, this book, took about five years, okay, to write. And so part of it was when I said I had this book in mind and I, I set out to do. I, I actually, my husband and I read through the Bible almost every year like a one straight through. In addition to just devotional readings and other things like you’re saying those bite size readings where you’re savoring, you know, one scripture, really meditating on it. But I had set out to start this book, I set out to do a slow reading of the Bible. So I read one chapter a day rather than three chapters a day. I read one chapter a day and at the end of that chapter I would pray and just ask God, please highlight for me, you know, through the Holy Spirit. Highlight for me what is the main theme or the main verse that you feel like I should take away? What would be your takeaway? God. Melissa McLaughlin [00:21:36]:And so then I kept that in a journal. But when, then when. So I did that for each chapter. Then when I got to the end of that book, I would take all of these that I had collected. And now I had to pray and say which one or one or two God have me use for that entire book to represent that book. So that was a very slow process. Then when I collected all of those for each of the 66 books of the Bible, I also then compared them with study Bibles that had, you know, main topics and important scriptures. I compared them with other biblical sources, reference books, so that I could see what other, you know, people that had a, you know, certainly have more Bible foundation than I do. Melissa McLaughlin [00:22:20]:I want to see what, what God laid on their hearts. So when those, sometimes they matched up with what, what the Lord brought out for me, but sometimes they did not. And so in that case I would just pray about it, you know, God, what would you have me to include here? So it just really was a lot of Bible reading and studying and prayer to select the, the verses. But I was certainly, I did certainly have that idea for looking for the verses that would really help illustrate or highlight how Christ is a part of this book of the Bible. So of course that was always my, that’s the overarching theme, you know, of the Bible, obviously the overarching theme of my book. So I definitely was looking for the Scriptures that would help highlight that. Doris [00:23:06]:Yeah. Wow. Well, that was great. And the way that you did that over the course of five years. So when we think about it, it’s like, well, patience is a fruit of the spirit. So we don’t want to rush things that are not meant to be rushed. I think in this world. I’m thinking of Rebecca George. Doris [00:23:27]:I just had her on the show and she wrote that book, you’re not too late. She talks about a hurry up world. You know, we feel like we have to always hurry up, like we’re behind or it’s too late for us, we missed the boat, you know, that kind of thing. But it’s, it’s not. And so for you taking this time to also is administering to your soul too when you’re going through this. This was transformational, wasn’t it? Melissa McLaughlin [00:23:54]:Yes, truly. It truly was. Yeah. Doris [00:23:57]:So when you started doing that were you had, you already had that book in that you knew you were going to do the book, right? Or was it that you did this and then it became a book? Melissa McLaughlin [00:24:11]:No, I really had in mind that I wanted to write something that would help people. So I really had the book in mind. I didn’t know all the elements yet, but I knew that I wanted to find representative scripture excerpts from each book of the Bible to make it more doable so that you could read through in 66 days, almost like you would read through a devotional. But instead of reading my words, you’re going to be reading God’s Word, you know, so that was my idea from the beginning. And then the prayer, I used the. I wanted that to add the prayers so that it wouldn’t just be an intellectual activity, also be an opportunity to really connect with God in His Word and through prayers. So the prayers were a really key element, and I knew that that was also going to be part of it. But it was. Melissa McLaughlin [00:24:59]:I think it was actually my husband was saying, well, you. One of the ways you could pull it out is make sure in your prayer you’re bringing out how Jesus is a part of that passage. So really made that my goal. But yes, I really had this in mind. I think it was that teacher side of me that wanted to help if someone else may be struggling either to put the pieces of the whole Bible together. Yeah, maybe they would like to read the whole Bible, but, you know, they’re not. They just don’t have the time, you know. Yeah. Melissa McLaughlin [00:25:29]:So. Or, or, or they’re just not in a place for that right now. So I felt like this was just. I wanted to create something that would make it doable for people to get that big picture view of the Bible, Read excerpts from every single book and pray about it. Pray, connect with the Lord and then again, really see how Jesus is woven through that. He’s not just part of the New Testament, but he is like the beginning of John says, you know, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, the Word was God. So we get to see, really take a closer look at how. How he really was God from the beginning and see that. Melissa McLaughlin [00:26:08]:That beautiful golden thread woven through from Genesis to Revelation. So I really did have that in mind when I set out to work on that book. Doris [00:26:18]:That’s beautiful. Yeah. And the fact being that in the beginning was the Word. And so that beginning is different than we think of our beginning, you know, or what does beginning actually mean? It’s like beginning was always. Jesus was always there. You know, the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit were always there. Even from the beginning in Genesis, we read that. And so, and, and I also love to. Doris [00:26:40]:The fact being that God had equipped you to be a teacher and teachers write lesson plans, you know, so you had that mind of a teacher going into it of how you had the pieces and trying to see how to put it together. And I know he helped you a lot with that because the Holy Spirit was there to help and remind us of all the things that Jesus has said and to bring him out. But the fact being that people can really then realize and read and things that they hadn’t really thought about before, that maybe they’ve only studied Jesus when he became flesh, the incarnation, you know, that was the only time maybe that they’ve really, really felt like they were learning about or knowing Jesus, whereas it, it was way before that. So that’s, I really love that. And the fact being that you are doing all this through a scripture, through a biblical lens, a scripture view instead of some. And I’ll have to say there are some teachers out there that are getting away from the Bible, you know, like actually encouraging people to read their Bible and go to the Bible. And there’s so many, you know, different teachings now that uses the right kind of terminology, but it’s not really like scriptural, biblical, you know, it’s like not referring back to the Word. I mean, we need the Word. Doris [00:28:12]:We need the scriptures, you know, God, you know, the Word. So anyway, so that’s really powerful and I love that you do that and help people to get a newfound love or even hunger, because I know we can also pray for that. Right, Melissa? Hunger for the Word. Melissa McLaughlin [00:28:30]:Yes, absolutely. Doris [00:28:32]:Yeah. Melissa McLaughlin [00:28:33]:So important, so important that. To pray for that. Yeah. And I appreciate what you said too, because we really want to make sure that anything we’re hearing, whether it’s a teacher or a preacher or something on the Internet or social media, we really have to go back to, to the Bible and filter it through God’s Word because His Word is eternal and it is the final authority. I mean, he’s the author. Doris [00:29:00]:Yes. Melissa McLaughlin [00:29:01]:Of our, of our lives. He’s the author of history, he’s the author of eternity. And so he is the authority. And so that’s why scripture has authority. And so we want to take any question, question or something we hear someone teaching, we’ve got to take it back and filter it through and say, where is this in the Bible and what does the Bible truly say? And even people’s understanding of Jesus himself, which is another thing I was trying to get at in the Book was to really understand Jesus in the fullness of Scripture, the fullness of who he is. So he’s. Yes, he is the little baby. He came in flesh like the little baby, but he. Melissa McLaughlin [00:29:42]:He grew to a man and took on our sins on the cross. But that’s not the end of the story. He rose up in all power and authority and dominion and victory. But also he is not only our Savior, he is also our Lord. And he is the righteous ruler, he is the righteous judge. And at the end, the Bible says at the end of our lives, we will stand before him and give an accounting. And so people kind of like this all we’ve, I mean, and I’m, I, I’m guilty of this too, so I don’t want to blame anyone else. We all would rather have the Jesus. Melissa McLaughlin [00:30:15]:We just want the mercy. Yes, we just want giveness, but we forget that his righteousness and his justice, His Lordship, his holiness, like everything about him, is what makes him who he is. And actually, when we understand his holiness, his power and justice, his perfection, that’s when we understand the depths of the sacrifice that was made for our sin. So it’s like if we have a very low view of Jesus, we’re really missing out on the greatness of his love for us, the greatness of his sacrifice, and yes, indeed, the greatness of his lordship, you know. Yeah. That he is, he is the eternal and living God. And you know, the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. And that’s the kind of thing that in, in our modern ears, it, it, we feel like that’s, that’s not right, but that’s what God’s word says. Melissa McLaughlin [00:31:18]:And that’s like a fear, that’s like a reverence and an awe and a recognition that only God is God. And so just having that high view of God. Yeah. Having that view of Jesus, like you’re saying Father, Son, Holy Spirit, having the high view of Scripture, it helps us really not only see God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in, in all his glory and majesty, but it also helps us again see the, the magnificence of his love for us. I mean, the God of the universe has created us in his image and has poured out his the blood of Heaven, you know, to pay the penalty for our sins, so that by faith we can receive that gift of salvation for free. He’s done it all. He’s paid the price. I mean, it’s just incredible. Melissa McLaughlin [00:32:13]:I mean, the more we gaze at His Majesty, the more we understand that that Term of amazing grace. Yeah. How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. Doris [00:32:24]:You know, so precious. Melissa McLaughlin [00:32:26]:Yeah, so. So again, I. Part of my goal was that I would be able to help people see Jesus in the fullness of who he is throughout all of the scriptures. Doris [00:32:36]:Yeah, yeah. And I, I really love how you brought that out, you know, that really where to be awestruck, you know, with the majesty of God and worshiping him. And yes, the fear of the Lord and a reverent fear, as you were talking. Because sometimes the messages we hear are very, very leaning toward just all grace, grace and love and God is love. But there is also the repentance and the turning from sin and have in our sins are washed white as snow. But Jesus is the only way for that. And so that’s very confusing too. There’s a lot of mixed messages out there, you know, that there’s many ways, you know, to God. Doris [00:33:33]:And that really is not the truth of the gospel. The gospel says that Jesus, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father, but, you know, by me. So Jesus said that himself. And so if we are going to worship him as king, even though he came as a humble baby, but he is King of kings and Lord of lords and what you brought out, that he is not only our Savior, but he is our Lord. And so that is powerful. And it. There’s a difference between those. Melissa McLaughlin [00:34:08]:There is a difference. And I really, like I was saying, I think the more we understand the fullness of who he is as Lord, the more we can cherish that he would humble himself to become our Savior. Doris [00:34:22]:Yeah, it’s just so humbling. And really, when we think about it, it just is really mind blowing to think about it, you know, in that way. What the truth is, you know, that we, we’re children of God, you know, and this is, this is part of our story. Like this is our heritage. This, we are daughters of the King. We are, we are God’s children. I mean, that is so powerful. And so I just love that your ministry is one that your heart is to help people to see that in the big picture story and see how we fit into that story. Doris [00:35:05]:You know, we’re part of that story. So that’s really precious. So, Melissa, this has been amazing and I wondered if you could share maybe one last bit of encouragement. I know you’ve had a lot of things in your life, beautiful things that have happened, and you also have had a beautiful experience of having a special needs brother growing up and So I just, you know, I can’t help but think that your books too are going to help families with, you know, maybe they have a child who has special needs. You know, these kind of resources can really help them to see Jesus, you know, and to understand. And so if you have maybe a little bit of encouragement you want to share before I have you, share where the listener can connect with you and any resources you might have to offer. Melissa McLaughlin [00:35:55]:Absolutely, yes, absolutely. I just would first like to say if anybody is listening and you’re in a painful place, whether it’s physical pain or emotional pain or maybe relational pain, whatever the case may be, I just want to say I’m sorry for what you’re going through. And I just encourage you to lean on the Lord. Lean on the Lord. He collects our tears in a bottle. He is with us, he sees us. He loves us more than anyone else. And that just to remember that he can still take those broken places and use it for his. Melissa McLaughlin [00:36:32]:For his glory and for our eternal good and in ways then that can minister to others. And I feel like the ways that he has used my life in the broken places is an example of that. And he doesn’t use everyone’s broken places in the same way. But I just encourage you to lean on the Lord, receive His love and wait on him and have hope because he’s not finished with us yet. Doris [00:36:57]:Amen. That’s very encouraging, actually. So wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing that. And what was on your heart to share with someone who’s listening today that really needed to hear that encouragement. And if you could also share, Melissa, where the listener can find you, how, how they can connect with you and find your books and whatever else you have, resource wise. And you also have your blog posts that they can read, you know, also. So how do they do that? Melissa McLaughlin [00:37:26]:Yes, absolutely. So the first place to find me is at my website or my blog, which is melissa mclaughlin.org and if you’d like to subscribe, which is totally free, one of the little giveaways is that you’ll get an excerpt from my first book as a free gift and it has a free sample scripture prayer. And so I just encourage you, meet me there. And all of my blog posts, I have devotionals and prayer articles on prayer articles on Bible studies and also poetry thrown in there too. So all of it is free. You’re welcome to read through for any post that may minister to you. I’d love to have you subscribe. There’s a contact page there. Melissa McLaughlin [00:38:09]:You can email me if you have specific prayer needs. I’d be happy to pray for you. You can also find my books there. My books are also available on Amazon and all of the major retailers as well. So. Yeah. And I can. And they can also hit find me on social media. Melissa McLaughlin [00:38:27]:I’m on X slash Twitter. Used to be Twitter. I’m on Facebook, Instagram, and also on Pinterest. So I’d love to meet anyone who’s listening. And may we just keep encouraging each other in our walk with the Lord. Great. Doris [00:38:42]:Amen to that. Yeah, we want to encourage one another and lift each other up. I think I quote 1st Thessalonians 5:11 in every show because it’s so important, you know, for us to do that. And so I love that so much. So thank you so much for being on the show. It’s just been a pleasure having you. And I hope if you’re listening right now, that you will check out the show notes, because I’ll have those links for you in the show notes so you can find Melissa and find her books and her resources and everything. And I hope to have you back on again sometime. Doris [00:39:13]:This was fun. Melissa McLaughlin [00:39:15]:Thank you so much, Doris. I would love to be on again. Thank you for your min. Doris [00:39:19]:Thank you for yours. And I know you have more to come. God is doing a mighty work. So also be encouraged if you’re listening today, that like Melissa said, God is not done with us. And you may think that you’re hitting the end of the road of something. Something might be coming to an end. But when we look at something as an ending, we can also look that there is a beginning that can start right after. So it’s just kind of maybe a segue into something new. Doris [00:39:47]:It doesn’t necessarily mean something ending. It’s like you’re still going to be able to use your gifts and talents and how God has equipped you all along. And you might have been doing things for something else, he was actually equipping you for down the road for such a time as this, as it says in Esther, so fierce friends, thank you so much for listening. And I hope that you will join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In today’s episode, host Doris Swift sits down with Kate Battistelli—author, speaker, and one of the hosts of the popular Mom to Mom Podcast. Kate shares her powerful story of stepping from a career in theater and the New York Broadway scene into an unexpected life of faith, family, and purpose after coming to know Christ at the age of 29. Together, Doris and Kate explore what it means to step into unknown seasons—such as the empty nest—and discover new meaning and purpose beyond motherhood. Kate reflects on her journey, from being a Broadway understudy to embracing roles as a mother to the award-winning Christian music artist, Francesca Battistelli, grandmother to 7, wife, and writer, all while encouraging women to boldly obey God’s call, even if it means venturing outside their comfort zones. We’re talking about her career in theater opposite a well-known actor, how she met her hubby, their sweet salvation story, and how God has amazing plans and a powerful purpose for each of our lives. You’ll also hear practical tips for navigating life transitions, building strong marriages, mentoring the next generation, and saying “yes” to unexpected challenges—whether it’s writing a book, starting a podcast, or simply volunteering. Stick around until the end for a special offer from Kate, and get ready to be inspired to step out where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect! Episode Highlights 00:00 “Writer, Podcaster, Former Actress” 04:20 Exciting Stories and New Offers 10:25 From Understudy to Leading Role 12:45 “Unexpected Encounter at Holiness Church” 14:35 “Life-Changing Divine Calling” 20:30 Faithful Obedience and Calling 22:12 Redefining Life After Parenting 25:44 “Preparing for Future Goals” 28:20 Prioritize Relationship Over Parenting 31:31 Finding Purpose Beyond Motherhood 34:32 Pray for Prodigal Children’s Return 38:02 Impact Through Obedience 42:06 “Join, Share, and Connect” We’re Talking About Her Amazing Books and More! Connect with Kate! You can connect with Kate at katebattistelli.com where you’ll find her books, social media links, podcast, blog, and even some amazing recipes! Plus, If you’d like to read the introduction and the first chapter of The Afterparty of the Empty Nest for free, just text: afterparty (all one word with no spaces), to 44144. And you’ll get a couple of other fun goodies as well! Kate Battistelli is the author of The After Party of the Empty Nest: Mom is Not Your Only Name, the bestseller, The God Dare: Will You Choose to Believe the Impossible, and Growing Great Kids: Partner with God to Cultivate His Purpose in Your Child’s Life. She is a contributing writer to the (in)courage Bible for Women and The Spirit-Led Woman’s Bible, and her writing has appeared in Guideposts, The Joyful Life magazine, The Better Mom, Mici magazine, and more. She is one-third of the popularMom to Mom Podcast. In addition, she is an honoree with She Leads Tennessee. As a young actress in New York City, Kate had a life-changing experience, going from understudy to starring as Anna in theBroadway National Tour of The King and I opposite Yul Brynner for more than 1,000 performances. Kate and her husband laid down their careers in the Broadway theatre in answer to their first “God Dare,” moving out of New York City and into a life of homeschooling and home business. She lives in Franklin, TN, near her daughter, contemporary Christian recording artist Francesca Battistelli, and seven precious grandchildren. Kate serves women by encouraging them to step out of their safe space and into His irresistible future. She’s a Jersey girl living in Franklin, TN, with her husband Mike. They’ve been married for 40 plus years and are the parents of GRAMMY Award-winning Christian recording artist Francesca Battistelli Goodwin. She and her husband, Matt, have given us 7 beautiful grandchildren, and they are the delight of our lives! What Threatens to Steal Your Joy? Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/ Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage! Love Fierce Calling? Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend! Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event… Thanks for Listening! I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value, purpose, and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift Let’s have a chat about your next event! Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned. Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you. I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect … Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon. With love and joy, Doris P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲 Transcript Doris [00:00:52]:What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Doris [00:02:32]:Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers. Surrender them to God. Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Doris [00:02:57]:Welcome back to the show today. I am so excited to introduce to you my friend, Kate Battistelli. I’ve been looking forward to this interview with her. She is the author of The After Party of the Empty Nest. Mom is Not Your Only Name. Amen. And she’s also the author of the bestseller The God Dare, Will you choose to believe the impossible? And Growing Great Kids Partner with God to Cultivate His Purpose in Your Child’s Life. Doris [00:03:26]:And she is a contributing writer to a lot of different publications and she’s also one third of the popular mom to mom podcast. So you listen to podcasts, so be sure to check that out. And she’s also a former actress, so we’re going to hear a little bit about that. It’s kind of exciting. She currently lives in Franklin, Tennessee and she is near her daughter, who you probably know, she’s the contemporary Christian recording artist Francesca Battistelli and she has seven precious grandchildren. So this is very exciting and a good reason to move to Tennessee. And I love this about Kate, that she serves women by encouraging them to step out of their safe space and into his irresistible future. I’ve never heard it put that way. Doris [00:04:13]:So I, I’m really intrigued and I love that so much. Kate, welcome to the show. Kate [00:04:17]:Thank you, Doris. I am thrilled to be here. Doris [00:04:20]:I am so excited about this because we are going to talk about so many amazing things that are really going to bless the audience, the listener today. So Listener, stay tuned to the end because Kate has something exciting that she wants to offer you. So. So we don’t want to miss out on that. And we are talking about the new book. But there’s so many things, really, that are kind of intertwined in your story, Kate, and from your background and everything, that’s so fascinating. And I just can’t wait for you to share that. So I would love if you would share a little about your story, however the Lord leads you and how you are taking action, where your passion, compassion and conviction intersection. Kate [00:05:03]:Yeah, I mean, my story is so quirky. I always tell people, you know, God just. God has a sense of humor because he took me from not knowing him to finding him at 29. So I didn’t grow up in a Christian home. I grew up going to church. But there was never any, you know, any desire to know Jesus, and it was never really talked about. So I left home. I went to four colleges in two years. Kate [00:05:28]:I didn’t graduate from any of them. So I like to remind people I’m a college dropout. But that doesn’t matter. You can still do lots of stuff. But I did get on the dean’s list, so there’s that. And my husband has a doctorate, so combined, kind of, you know, works, works, works in my favor. But, yeah, just had an interesting life. Now I’m married. Kate [00:05:47]:We’ve been married 42 years this summer. We have seven grandkids. Just one child. God. I wanted a big family. God gave us one, but she’s got seven. And it’s such a blessing, you know, you don’t think about what that’ll be like till you have them. My husband always says, you don’t think your heart can grow bigger, but it really can. Kate [00:06:07]:And with each one, it just grows a little bit more. So it’s. It’s a. If you’re blessed to have grandchildren, it’s a wonderful thing. Yeah, we feel just honored, you know, that’s beautiful. Doris [00:06:19]:And, you know, having, because you talk about in the book, too, how Francesca was the only child and, you know, all that, but she’s given you seven is a pretty amazing number of grandkids to have. And it’s like a good number. It’s like a God number. It is. Maybe she’ll have more. Kate [00:06:36]:It really is. Doris [00:06:38]:She’ll have 12. You know, that’s a God number, too. Kate [00:06:40]:That’s true. So is eight. They’re all God numbers. Just some are. You don’t want 13, but. Doris [00:06:46]:But that. That’s so fun and fantastic. And, you know, I Know that you have a lot of background in theater and that kind of thing. So you have a lot of talent in your family and how this all came about, because I think your husband was involved in Broadway as well. So if you could tell us a little bit about that and share how that went and how God segued you out of that particular season in your life. Kate [00:07:11]:Sure, it’s a crazy story, and to me, it’s a really prophetic picture of what God was doing even before I knew him. And I’ll come back to that. But, yeah, I was a young actress in New York just wanting to be famous. I wanted fame. And fortunately, I’d lived in New Jersey like you had, and New York was not that far. So eventually I made my way there in my 20s and I was doing different things. Children’s theater, regional theater, whatever I could do, I would say yes to. Well, one day I got a call from my agent and he says, kate, there’s a big production of the King and I starring Yul Brynner that’s going to be a national tour. Kate [00:07:49]:And if some of your audience, they might be too young, they’re like, who? Well, he was a huge star, if you’ve ever seen the Ten Commandments. He played Farrow, and he was back in 1981. He was still a huge star, so he was starring in it. And my agent wanted me to audition for the understudy to the leading lady. And I thought, okay, well, I ended up getting the part. I thought, well, this is great. I’m going to travel, I’m going to actually earn some money. I’ll never go on, because understudies basically are like an insurance policy for the producer. Kate [00:08:22]:So especially at that level. And I was. I had experience, but I didn’t have, you know, that kind of experience. I was young to be picked for an understudy, but I was thrilled. But I learned my part. You have to know your part backward and forward. So I knew if ever called on, I’ll be able to do this, thinking I’m never going to get a chance. Well, about two months into the run of the show, I walk into the theater one night and as soon as my foot crosses the threshold, the stage manager runs to me, he grabs me and he says, she’s sick. Kate [00:08:55]:You’re on. And I mean, your life flashes before your eyes. Because I don’t know if people realize the King and I has probably the biggest role for a female in all of musical theater. It’s a three hour show and I sang seven songs I’m on stage almost the whole time. I mean, it’s just a huge show. So the thought of. And I got in at 7:15 for an 8 o’ clock show because I didn’t have much to do in the chorus, you know, it didn’t take much to get ready. But for that, you know, the hoop skirts, the hats I’d never handled the props I’d never worn the costumes, I’d never done a scene with Yul Brynner. Kate [00:09:30]:So the thought of, the thought of all of it was terrifying. But as I’m standing in the wings about to go on, the thought occurred to me. And I told this to my daughter many times, I said, sometimes you just have to do it afraid. There are those times in life where you can’t back up. It’s like having a baby, you know, you can’t. When it starts, you can’t get out of it. And this is, this was that same thing. This is what I was getting paid for. Kate [00:09:53]:Well, I did the show. I didn’t die because I thought I might, but I didn’t. Ended up going on for the leading lady for two weeks because she had pneumonia. But she got well, came back to the show. I went back to the chorus because that’s how it works. And I thought that was great, you know, great credit for my resume. But that’s not the end of the story. The crazy part is about a month later I get a call from one of the producers and he says, Kate, Mr. Kate [00:10:18]:Brenner has sent the leading lady back to New York. He’s paid off her two year contract and he wants you in the role. Doris [00:10:24]:Wow. Kate [00:10:25]:I mean, that never happens. They’re not going to put an understudy in a leading role like that. They’re always going to bring in somebody from New York. But I really look at it as a God thing, the way he will reach down and pull you out of obscurity to dance with him. Because if you know the king and I, toward the end, there’s that big shall we dance scene, which I get chills just talking about. It was an amazing, just an amazing thing to be a part of. I ended up doing the show almost three years, about a thousand performances, so all over the place. But the best part is this cute guy joined the tour named Mike Battistelli. Kate [00:11:01]:He was the associate conductor and we’ve always played gigantic theater. So I could see, you could see the orchestra and I could see, who’s that cute guy. He joined as the associate conductor so he had to learn the score so he’s flipping the pages and I’m seeing him and thinking, he’s really cute. I gotta get the scoop on him. So a couple of my friends, I said, I’m find out, you know, what’s the deal with him? Find out if he’s married, whatever. Well, he wasn’t. We literally fell in love across the footlight because I could see him, he could see me. He said, when I first saw you, I thought you were a much older British actress. Kate [00:11:33]:But then I found out you were a girl from New Jersey with a good English accent. So he will still tell that story. But we met, we fell in love. When I left the show in 1983, we ended up getting married in July. And, well, if you want, I’ll tell you our salvation story, because it’s just as crazy as this whole thing. Doris [00:11:51]:Let’s hear it. Okay. Kate [00:11:53]:Well, we had a little side business because we were both then unemployed. And we started this business and there was an older woman that was mentoring us. She was just helping us figure it out. Well, if we found out she was a born again Jewish woman, a messianic Jew, and she was a typical New Yorker, she was relentless. She kept inviting us to church, and she would not stop inviting us. And we kept saying, no, we’re good, you know, we don’t need to go to church was our thought. But she kept inviting us. So Mike and I just looked at each other one day and said, if she invites us one more time, let’s just get this over with. Kate [00:12:28]:Because eventually it’s rude to say no one more time. You kind of have to say yes. I always tell people, don’t stop inviting. They eventually have to say yes. But she invites us to church. And, you know, New York, we get on the F train. The last stop in the F train in Jamaica, Queens. And we lived in the Village. Kate [00:12:45]:So this is a long subway ride. And we’re like thinking, oh, Lord, what are we getting? What have we gotten ourselves into? Well, we get out of the subway, and the church is about two blocks away. And the church was in a big old movie theater. So we’re walking to the church, and you could almost sense the building pulsating, like something was going on. Now, they were having a big gospel choir that night, so that was part of it. But also the Holy Spirit. You know, when you don’t know what the Holy Spirit or who he is, it’s very intimidating. But we walk into this church, we find out it’s an all black holiness church, which, if you know, that’s the men sit on one side, the women on the other. Kate [00:13:27]:The women wear dresses, they don’t wear makeup, they don’t wear jewelry. It’s a very strict sect, I guess, of Christianity, I don’t know. Well, denomination, wonderful people, but just different. I mean, I was raised Episcopalian. I didn’t know any of this. And the other thing is in the lobby, there are crutches hanging on the wall of people that have been healed, empty wheelchairs. We’re thinking, what farm planet did we just get dropped on because we just had no experience with this. Well, she seats us in the front row. Kate [00:14:00]:We’re the only three white faces in an all black church. Mike sitting on one side because the men and women are separated. Our friend June and I were on the other side. And the pastor just gave this fiery salvation message because I’m pretty sure she said to him, they need to get saved. So, you know, put it all on because they need, they need salvation. Well, at the end with his, you know, his altar call, Mike’s hand went up on his side, mine went up. We didn’t know each other, were saying yes to Jesus. We went forward, gave our hearts to the Lord, and that was it. Kate [00:14:35]:You know, we were, we’ve never turned back from that, but we were still living in New York, still, you know, that was night, that was March 31, 1984. A year after that we had our daughter Francesca. And a year after that, we’re still living in New York. Mike’s conducting on Broadway and Radio City. I’m just doing all kinds of different off Broadway things. And we start getting this sense, both of us, that something’s not right here. And we knew the Lord was saying to us, this is not the life that I’ve planned for you. I want you to lay this down kind of like Abraham, you know, walk away from everything, you know, go to a land that I’ll show you, I won’t tell you. Kate [00:15:16]:And we didn’t know what to do. We ended up moving back to New Jersey for a while, had our home business started, homeschooling. Way before it was cool, you know, way before. It’s the thing we, everybody does before there were computers. It’s really fun to not have computers, but yeah, I mean, it was just crazy. And we, we ended up down in Florida when Franny was about, gosh, I guess about seven. But it was just such a. Interesting twist and turn. Kate [00:15:43]:I like to call it 90 degree turns. You know, you’re going one way with the Lord and then he says, no, I want you to go this completely different way that you were never expecting. And he’ll do that. But if we’re open to hearing his voice, you know, and if we decide to say yes, because we could have said no, we could have stayed in New York and, you know, could have gotten my Tony maybe, I don’t know. But I’m. I don’t look back with any regret. I would not go back to that for a million years, you know, but it was a crazy season. Doris [00:16:14]:Yeah. Wow. That’s a powerful story, you know, and talking about when you arrived at this church and it was just so far out of your comfort zone with what way far out? And it’s like, what is this about? Hello. But, but thank you so much for the encouragement of saying don’t give up asking. Because I know sometimes, I mean, we all have been guilty of. We just give up too soon. Like, nevermind, they’re not going to do that, you know, or we just don’t really consider what God can do and you know, like if we keep going with what he leads us to do and not to give up, you know, and so I love that. Kate [00:16:53]:Definitely. Doris [00:16:54]:That was. That’s great. So I love that and how you both work called or feeling that almost like conviction. Kate [00:17:02]:Yeah, it was conviction. Yeah. We’re just both sensing at the same time. We both knew and it was hard. You know, people think you’re crazy when you’ve reached a certain level. My husband has a doctorate. Like I said, he worked his whole life to get to where he got. And then God says, walk away. Kate [00:17:20]:And you’re just like, all right. But obedience always has. It always has good at the end. If you’re going to obey, there’s. There’s a price to obey, but there’s also a reward. That’s what I found. Doris [00:17:32]:Yes. Well, that’s really encouraging for someone to hear because, you know, there might be someone listening right now who’s kind of struggling with a decision and they feel like, do I just give this all up? And what would that look like? And I think it kind of segues. I love your story that you share. I’m pretty sure it’s in the newest book when you share the story about how you. You really were never planning to be an author and then never, you know, and then the first book kind of came out of nowhere when you were going to speak, I think, with your husband. Right. Kate [00:18:06]:So, yeah, God dared me to write that book. He really literally dared me. And I had no interest. I knew I could write like I Knew I was a good writer, but the thought of being an author, I thought, no, God, I don’t want to do that. You know how God is. He can make you do what you don’t want to do. So for me, that’s what I call. My second book was called the God Dare because. Kate [00:18:29]:Because of the way I see it all through scripture, how all these different Bible heroes take these amazing steps with the Lord. It’s. It’s God’s call on them. But I call it a God dare because they. They could say no. But by. Because they did it, they changed the world. And it’s just all through scripture. Kate [00:18:47]:And that’s what he did to us. I mean, seems crazy, but it felt like that, you know, that he’s just daring you to go a completely different direction. It’s like, okay, Lord, this is you, not me. Doris [00:19:00]:Yeah. And so absolutely true that, you know, we can say no. And what if we said no, and then we look back and go, wow, I’m glad I didn’t say no. Kate [00:19:11]:Well, we can. We can choose to be chosen. We can choose to be chosen to change the world, or we can say no, and God will find somebody else. Do you know who Reinhard Bonnke was? Do you remember who he was? He was like the Billy Graham of Africa. Huge ministry. Millions came into the kingdom. Well, when he was at the height of his ministry, God told him. He said, you were not my first choice. Kate [00:19:34]:You were my third choice. So imagine how humbling that is. But imagine those two other guys, you know, they get to heaven, and God says, look what you turned down. And that. That strikes terror into my heart. I’m like, God, I. I didn’t meet you till I was 29, so I’ve already missed a lot. I don’t want to miss anything else. Kate [00:19:52]:I don’t want to go to heaven and see, there’s all these blank pages. This was yours, you know, And I think for so many of us, fear will stop us. Comfort zone. So if anybody’s listening that’s struggling, just pray. Ask the Lord for confirmation. He will show you. Get some Christians that you know that have a strong walk with the Lord to pray for you. Because it may well be God saying, step into something crazy. Kate [00:20:17]:Step into something scary, because it usually is, you know, I mean, you know, writing a book is scary. It’s not easy. You’re putting yourself out there, hoping somebody’s gonna actually read it and get something from it. Doris [00:20:30]:Yeah, it definitely is. And it’s just kind of reminder of, this is God. This is your calling. And I’m not gonna make it about me. You know, like, well, what if I fail? Or what if this isn’t good? Or I don’t sell enough copies? Or, you know, and so just like you were saying earlier, the obedience is the important step to take. And step out in faith and obedience, and then he does the rest. But I also love how you brought out that point, which was really golden, about how if we’re not going to say yes to something, someone else will. And sometimes we’re that someone else. Doris [00:21:06]:You know, we might be the third person God is calling to do something, and so we don’t have to, like, take offense for third place. It’s just like that, that’s what we were supposed to do. And I love that. I love that. That’s really cool. And just talking about your book because so many women can relate to all your books, actually. And I love the God dare, because we all can relate to that for sure. And you were talking about that after party because I know you kind of think about on Broadway right when the show’s over. Doris [00:21:39]:Is that kind of. Yeah, I heard you talk about that. Kate [00:21:41]:Yeah, there’s an after party and, you know, it’s a time for everybody to get together, kind of look at what they did, realize it was good, congratulate themselves. But then, okay, what’s the next audition? What’s the next thing I’m going to do? But it’s a good time to examine what you did and to look back in Pride. And I find that’s the same with motherhood. You know, it’s. It’s an after party is a good time. It’s not. You’re not sitting there dissecting everything and what was wrong and how terrible it is. It’s a joyful time. Kate [00:22:12]:And so many women get to the empty nest and they’re just miserable. You know, they’re just stuck in that. I don’t know who I am. I don’t know what to do with my life, which is nothing wrong with that, but God is laying out a whole new future for you. You know, raising kids was a season amazing, important. You change the world in that as you raise your children. But once they’re gone, what are you going to do with the next 40, 50, 60 years? We have to think that way. You know, what’s that thing? We’re not going to sit in bed and watch Netflix and eat Cheetos. Kate [00:22:46]:There’s a purpose for us. You know, we’re put on this planet for a reason. Especially think about that you were saved till now. You know, I believe we’re in the end times. And the fact that God could have put us on this planet anytime in the last however many 6,000 years, he chose the end. He chose. He saved us till now. When you think about that, that’s pretty mind blowing that he has us here because of what he wants us to do. Kate [00:23:14]:Each of us has an assignment to build the kingdom. But we have to say yes. Like with Reinhard Bonnke, you know, somebody has to say yes. And if you look at it that way and ask the Lord, what is my place in this? You know what, in the grand scheme of this, of salvation and of getting as many people in the boat as we can, what’s my part? It can be huge. It can be. There is no huge, big or small. I don’t think in the kingdom. I think it’s just a matter of obedience. Kate [00:23:41]:You either are obeying or you’re not. You know, so true that it to me. Yeah. Doris [00:23:47]:And you know, I like how you just was. You were talking about how to be prepared, you know, for like when I liken that to. Okay, like when you walked in to that stage door that day and it’s like, you’re on Kate, this is it. And you know, so. But you were prepared for it ahead of time. You know, it’s not like you didn’t know the lines or you weren’t. You hadn’t been practicing. You were diligent in doing that and said yes to that role. Doris [00:24:15]:But then I also love how you just then brought out the fact that thinking about empty nest is not just a. For the woman who’s already there at the empty nest season. Kate [00:24:26]:Right. Doris [00:24:27]:We can prepare ahead. And I know you talk about that in your book, the things that women can do now, you know, maybe young moms even can do now and just have that mindset that we are raising our children to follow Jesus and discipling them. So if you could share a little bit about that, because I think that’s encouraging. Kate [00:24:45]:Yeah. We have to remember we’re raising them to go. That’s the whole point. And every day they’re getting a little bit closer to that. But if you’ve still got kids at home and you know this is looming, maybe in the next couple of years, now’s the time to start thinking about it. And that was my mistake. I just never. It just never occurred to me because we were. Kate [00:25:04]:Since she was an only child, we were very involved in helping navigate the whole Nashville music, all that stuff until she finally left home just to kind of help her pave the way. And whatever was happening, we wanted to be part of it just to protect her. But once she was gone, then it really hit me like a ton of bricks. And I just thought, what do I do now? Because that was every. I was a stay at home mom and, and the thought of now I’ve got all this time to fill, which actually is a wonderful thing. But at the time it just felt like this weight on me and it was really hard. So what I did, I started volunteering, which really helped. And I always recommend women to do that. Kate [00:25:44]:But if you’re, if you’ve still got kids at home, you’re not quite at that point, start thinking about, start praying about it, start preparing about for it if you know what you’re going to do. If you know, like I know the Lord’s told me to say open a business or go back to college. What can you start doing now to start preparing for that? If he’s calling you to go back to college, well, can you take one class a year or one semester at a time? You don’t have to do the whole thing, but how much closer you’ll be to your goal. Or if you want to start a business, well, go work for somebody that has a small business or go online and see what all is involved. Because there’s a lot. If you’re going to have a business, there’s a lot to that all. Or maybe you want to go into politics. I mean, there’s a million things. Kate [00:26:29]:Or write a book, whatever that is. Start praying more than anything is pray to know that you’re on the right track. But also start using the resources. I mean, we didn’t have YouTube when I was growing up. There was no Facebook. You know, when we, even when she was, I think Frannie was 18 when Facebook came out. So for me to do any of this writing or anything, there were really no resources, but now there’s so many. So if you’re a woman with kids still at home or they’re going this fall or whatever, and it’s just looming and terrifying, you don’t let it, don’t let it terrify you. Kate [00:27:03]:It’s a really great season. The best thing, even though the kids are gone and you’re looking across that dinner table and they’re not there, there’s all this freedom. All of a sudden you actually do have freedom to do the stuff you want. Maybe you’d like more than 20 minutes of Bible study in the morning. You know, you can spend two hours. You know what I mean? There’s so much more you can do. You can go out to lunch with friends or go out to dinner with your husband. We took our grandkids recently to Chick Fil a. Kate [00:27:33]:It was $100, more than 100, to take these kids for lunch. And I thought, man, if you’re a mom, that finally they’re gone, there’s some extra cash, you and your husband can have a nice dinner. And that’s another thing keep pouring into your marriage now. Don’t let things get to where the kids are gone and you’re looking at each other going, I don’t even know you. There’s this very sad phenomenon called gray divorce. I don’t know if your listeners have heard of that, but it’s becoming more and more common, even among Christian couples, that the kids go. They have nothing in common anymore, and they get divorced. So I talk a lot about maintaining that intimacy with your husband, because we know God is first, but he’s next. Kate [00:28:20]:He comes before the kids, which is hard when they’re really little. I mean, you’re 247 when they’re little. But still, there’s a way to have a date night do something where you can maintain that relationship because it’s not hard for it to. Not hard for couples to split up because the kids are that buffer. And if there were issues simmering under the surface, it’s easy to kind of just push them to the side. But once the kids are gone, you’re looking at each other and it’s become a real problem. So spend that time now to make that a priority. Doris [00:28:55]:Yeah, great advice. And yeah. Because you don’t want to look at each other after the kids are gone and go, I don’t even know who you are. Kate [00:29:03]:Who are you? I don’t even know if I still like you. And you may not, but you have to plan. It’s like you don’t plan for retirement when you’re retired. Right. You plan years before. Well, same with your marriage, especially if you’ve got younger ones. Just do what you can to pour into it. I have like 20 date night ideas in the book just to make it. Kate [00:29:23]:To make people give them an idea that this is not as hard as you think. You know, you don’t. Doesn’t have to be going out and spending a hundred dollars on a meal. There’s a ton of other things you can do to just maintain that closeness. Because he’s gonna be there when the kids and the Legos and the mess is gone, you know, so that, that’s probably one of the most important things to do before. For your nest is empty. Doris [00:29:46]:Yeah. Wow, that is so good. And I love in the book how you do share those things and for people because sometimes they’re like, I don’t know what to do. So they can just get your book and then they’ll know. And so I love that. And how in the book too that you share different stories from different women and you know, their experiences and how you’ve, you broke down that you have these like types of moms based on these three birds. Yes. Could you share a little bit about that? That was so fun. Kate [00:30:19]:Sure. Oh sure. Well, you’re thinking nest. It kind of makes birds make sense. Well, I see it as three types of mama birds. There’s the swallow, who’s the one that’s kind of looking forward to the emptiness. Not everybody is sad and scared about. There’s some that, look, I know where I’m going when you kids are gone. Kate [00:30:37]:Love you, but bye. I mean, they may still have some sad, you know, mourning and stuff, but they’re ready to go. And then there’s the mourning dove. And we know, you know, they’re sad little coos that they make and they just sound so sad. And that’s the mom who just kind of gets stuck. She’s in that and she can’t really see a purpose other than being mom. And once that purpose is gone, she’s very sad and confused and can sometimes sit in that for a while. And then there’s the robin mom. Kate [00:31:06]:It’s kind of a combo of both. She wants to move on, but she’s also kind of stuck. And that’s what I was, I was more that combo mom that saw that, yeah, there has to be more. But this is really hard. You know, we can get into self pity. We can, we can just get stuck there. I, I talked to a mom recently who’s, you know, it’s been three years since my kids left. I’m like, three years, you need to get on this. Kate [00:31:31]:You know, it’s time to move out of that because there is so much more. And I think a lot of women think that was it being a mom, that was my call, my purpose. I have nothing now unless they have kids and I’m a grandma. That is not true. God has ordained something for you from before the foundation of the world and that it’s up to us to find out what that is through prayer, through getting other people to pray, you know, through step out that’s why I say step out and volunteer. Because if nothing else, you may find your calling in that. And if nothing else, find a younger mom you can mentor because you know more than she does. Right. Kate [00:32:11]:You’ve been through it. You can help her. And there’s tons of younger moms, you know, they’re going to Instagram for their information, for their mothering tips, and you’re not going to get it on Instagram or a podcast of all young moms. They need the older voices that. To the tightest two women to speak into them and say, you can get through it. Let me help you. You know, here’s what I can do and here’s how I can advise you. We really need that. Kate [00:32:35]:So if nothing else, at least do that. Yeah, I think that’ll help a lot of other women, you know. Doris [00:32:40]:Sure. Doris [00:32:41]:Yeah. Doris [00:32:41]:And I love it. It is so biblical, you know, for the Titus 2 woman to mentor other women and young women. And we can learn a lot from each other, too. But also, you know, sharing what we know with. There are many young women out there who have not had a mother figure in their life. You know, that has been many. And so they need a mother figure that is a follower of Jesus, you know, that is a believer and looks at things through a biblical perspective and a godly lens and can impart those beautiful things on to whatever it is they share, you know, with them. And mentorship is so precious. Doris [00:33:27]:So. And I very much. And you know, of course we have your beautiful daughter. She is talented and she is serving the Lord in her song and with, you know, all that she does and that, that is really a blessing to see that come to pass, you know, when your child and but you talk about prodigals in your book too, because there’s a lot of moms who are struggling because their child has walked away from the faith, but to just keep encouraging them in that. And so I love how you. Kate [00:34:01]:Yeah. And I mean, really, the only answer to that is prayer and intercession because I like to remind them that God Jesus leaves the 99 and he goes for the 1, and your child is the one. There are lots of kids that have walked away from the. From the church because this world just sucks them in, you know, all the crazy in this world. But he knows better than you do. He loves them more than you do, and he’s going after him. But just pray, pray, pray. And if there’s any communication, keep that open. Kate [00:34:32]:Sometimes there’s not. Sometimes kids just cut their parents off. But, you know, the prodigal son did come back. He got to that point where he realized this is not working, and pray that, you know, the one thing I always pray, because I have family members, most of them are not saved, but I pray, Lord, send an ambassador into their lives that can. That they’ll listen to, because they’re not going to listen to me, but they’re going to listen to somebody else. And that’s a powerful thing. I think if you’re a mom of prodigal, pray for that person to just come in and hit them with the Holy Spirit, you know, that can. That can help. Doris [00:35:08]:Amen. Doris [00:35:09]:Yeah. Doris [00:35:09]:And when we were talking earlier about how saying yes to whatever God is calling us to do, our yes might be an answer to somebody’s prayer, some mom’s prayer for their child who needs to hear, you know, a truth from someone like you say outside the family that they’ll be open to listen to. And, you know, sometimes we’re the water, sometimes we plant the seeds. And. But, you know, that’s the beauty of all of that. And. Kate [00:35:35]:Right. Doris [00:35:36]:Yeah. So that is. That is so encouraging for a mom who’s listening right now. You know, and even if you’re not a mom listening right now, there might be someone in your family who you have a burden for because they’re lost. And. And just to surrender that, you know, surrender it to God and just trust him. And like, you said prayer, which is why, too, I love in your book, how at the end of each chapter, which I also love, your chapters aren’t hugely long, so that. Yeah, so it’s. Doris [00:36:05]:It’s great. And you can get through it. And then at the end, you have the discussion questions, and then you go into, like, scripture verses that are encouraging for, you know, applicable for that. And then you have prayer. So sometimes we need a little help with the prompt, you know, with the prayer. So that is. That is so important. And. Doris [00:36:26]:Yeah, so this has been so amazing. And I. I was just going to ask if is there anything else that you feel led to share to someone who’s listening to Dave? Because I know, like, really, when we can think about you and I in different seasons, even, like, I was a banker for 29 years, and I didn’t even start doing podcasting or writing books and speaking and all that until after I was 50. I went back to school at 55, graduated at 59. You know, so, yeah, so it’s like you’re not. It’s not. You’re not done. So, like you said, don’t, like, just Sit in the grandma waiting room. Kate [00:37:03]:You know, like, because you may not be a grandma, you know, your kids may not have, they may not get married. And if you’re waiting for that, don’t get, don’t fall into that trap. But I think, you know, I tell women all the time. If you told me 15 years ago, Kate, in 15 years you’ll have written four books. Really? Because I have a devotional companion that just came out to the book. So you’ve written four books, you’ll be part of a successful podcast, you’ll speak around the country. I’d have said, you’re crazy. That’s not me. Kate [00:37:32]:But God said, that is you. And for everybody listening, God has something else for you. He has another name. Like I can call myself an author, you know, it makes no sense that I can even say that, but because I was bold enough to step out and do what God was calling me to do, now I have this whole other life. And that’s what the empty nest is. It’s this whole other life. It’s going back to college, it’s starting to step out and start a podcast. That’s not an easy thing. Kate [00:38:02]:But you stepped out. Now you’re impacting women all over the place and what a, what a world changing thing that is, you know, and we’re not all going to start podcasts, but whatever it is, maybe God’s saying, hey, I want you to volunteer at the Alzheimer’s unit in your hospital because of the people you’re going to impact, the families. You know what I mean? It doesn’t, it doesn’t always have. We think it has to be something big, and it really doesn’t. It, it’s all big in God’s eyes. If we’re obeying, you know, it comes really comes down to obedience. You can say no if you want, but please don’t, Please step in and do that thing. It may seem crazy, and it usually is if it’s God, but do it anyway. Doris [00:38:38]:Yeah, do it anyway and do it afraid if you need to. But I love how kind of that’s been. The theme through our conversation is like, just say yes. Obedience brings the blessing. It may not look like what we think, but it definitely is worth it to say yes to God and, you know, to encourage others in their walk. And like you said, we don’t have to start something. We can become part of something already happening. And, you know, you just never know. Doris [00:39:09]:Or like in your case, going back to the theater, you. You never even realized that you were going to step into the lead role in that. But it was all part of God’s plan and how he worked all of that in your past. And so that was really. That’s really cool. I love that story so much. And so, you know, this book is great. I love how you remind us that mom is not our only name. Doris [00:39:33]:And that can also go for any other role that we try to just tie our entire identity into. Because then when we. But we’re still, I mean, moms after they leave the nest, but it’s in a different capacity. And so reminding women, like you just said, I can call myself an author. You know, he. He kind of. He names us, but then he can rename us in different ways that we never would even fathom. Like, you know, he does that exceedingly, abundantly above. Kate [00:40:04]:He does. He really does. Doris [00:40:06]:Yeah. Doris [00:40:06]:It’s amazing. Doris [00:40:07]:Well, I love this, Kate. This has been so encouraging. I’m so glad we got to finally do this. And, and I really enjoyed talking to you too, because we really only met in person, I think once it was at a conference and I think we just passed each other at the food table or something. I want to say it was like one of the spark conferences or something. And probably. Kate [00:40:25]:Yeah, yeah. Doris [00:40:26]:And it’s just, you know, you get so busy, you don’t get to really talk with people. So I really love this opportunity to chat with you and to hear a lot of the. The wisdom that God has given you to share. And I would love if you would share how the listener can connect with you and resources that you have to offer and how they can find you. Kate [00:40:44]:Sure. Well, they can find me @KateBattistelli.com and on all social media. I’m just Kate Battistelli. So I’d love to connect with any of your listeners that, you know, follow me and we’ll just chat, whatever. But I do have a special offer. If you’d like to read the introduction and the first chapter of the book for free. All you do is text afterparty, all one word, like no spaces to 44144. And you’ll get that and then a couple other fun goodies that we like to send out. Kate [00:41:14]:So yeah, it’s a way to at least see is this something that I want to dive deeper into? And like I said, there’s the book and now, now there’s the Devotional Companion, which is a journal. It’s a 31 day devotional. So it takes you a little bit deeper into all of this with some space for writing out your own prayers. And all of that. So that’s fun. Doris [00:41:34]:Nice. And I’ll have all that in the show notes so people can find you the links and everything. And I just want to mention, too, I really thought it was so precious how in. In the book, you do an invitation to the mom to the after party. Like, we’re invited to the after party. And, you know, it’s like, we don’t rsvp. We don’t have a choice for that. Kate [00:41:55]:Attendance is mandatory. Doris [00:41:57]:Attendance is mandatory. That’s fantastic. So thank you so much for being on, and I hope to have you back on again. This was so fun. Kate [00:42:05]:Thanks, Doris. I’d love to come back. Doris [00:42:06]:Yeah, it’d be so good. And, friends, thank you so much for listening today. I know what Kate shared really encouraged you, and if you could share this episode, I would love it so much. And I hope you join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this episode, host Doris Swift welcomes back her friend and returning guest, Rebecca George—author, speaker, and founder of the Radical Radiance podcast community. Doris and Rebecca dive into themes every woman can relate to, including living in that “in-between-almost-but-not-yet” season, and the struggle of waiting on God’s timing in a world telling us to hurry up, because we’re falling behind. Rebecca shares insights from her newest book, You’re Not Too Late: Trusting God’s Timing in a Hurry Up World, and opens up about how longing, comparison, and even resentment can creep in, no matter what stage of life you’re in. Together, Doris and Rebecca discuss faith and trusting God with hopes, dreams, and that thing we’re longing for. They also talk about the importance of community, the dangers of the prosperity gospel, and how to cultivate spiritual resiliency in our everyday rhythms of waiting. Whether you’re waiting for a breakthrough, struggling with unmet desires, or simply looking to find more joy right where you are, this episode promises wisdom, encouragement, and a reminder: it’s not too late for you. Join us as we lean into God’s timing, celebrate kingdom work, and find inspiration for your own fierce calling! Episode Highlights Introduction to Rebecca’s New Book: “You’re Not Too Late” Book’s core message: Trusting God’s timing in a hurry-up world Who the message is for and why it resonates Living in the “In Between Almost-But-Not-Yet” The tension of waiting and longing Faithfulness in the “meanwhile” Rebecca’s Story and Passion Intersection Multiple hats Rebecca wears in life and ministry Importance of community among writers, speakers, and podcasters Creating environments free of competition and comparison How real-life women’s stories are integrated Each chapter’s exploration of an opposing mindset/emotion Interactive aspects—readers relating to stories and self-reflection prompts Shift in Book Focus: From Singleness to Bigger Picture Regarding Longing Original intent as a “singleness” book Expansion into broader themes of longing and desire Recognizing longing continues even after certain desires are fulfilled Coping with Longing and Waiting Gospel-centered perspective versus earthly focus Transitioning from struggle (despair, doubt, isolation) to hope (joy, community) Challenges of comparison and resentment Idolatry and Resentment in the Waiting When desires become idols Personal stories of jealousy and difficult emotions Honest conversations with God about unmet desires Navigating Comparison The ongoing struggle with comparison Coping with guilt over mixed emotions (joy for others, pain for self) Reminder of true fulfillment found in God Prosperity Gospel and Misguided Self-Help Critique of self-help and prosperity gospel ideas infiltrating Christian messaging Dangers of self-reliance and the myth that effort guarantees results Importance of biblical truth as the foundation Culture of Instant Gratification How technology trains us to avoid waiting Everyday habits undermining our resilience and patience Practicing small disciplines to build spiritual resilience God’s Timing and Looking Back Reflections on answered prayer coming in the right season The sweetness of fulfilled longing after seasons of waiting Gratefulness for God’s story being better than our plan Favorite Stories and Practical Takeaways from the Book “The Bench Story”—Rebecca and her husband’s intertwined journeys of prayer and waiting Psalm 139 “Search Me, God” prayer as a practical tool for self-examination Encouragement to use scriptural prayers during hard seasons Encouragement for Listeners Still Waiting Praying for future blessings and spouses Warning against making impulsive decisions out of fear of being “too late” Affirming listeners’ value and God’s perfect timing Connecting with Rebecca & Additional Resources Where to find Rebecca online (Instagram, podcast, books) Free video series accompanying the book Use of book for group or individual study Conclusion and Invitation Reiteration of every woman’s “fierce calling” Encouragement to partner with God in kingdom work Preview of future episodes and invitation to tune in again Connect with Rebecca! You can connect with Rebecca on Instagram @rebeccageorgeauthor and her website radicalradience.live Rebecca George is the author of You’re Not Too Late: Trusting God’s Timing in a Hurry Up World, and Do the Thing: Gospel-Centered Goals, Gumption, and Grace for the Go-Getter Girl , and the host of the popular podcast Radical Radiance. Her work has been featured on outlets such as Life Today TV, HomeLife magazine, and Moody Radio. Rebecca and her husband, Dustin, live in East Tennessee. Link to Previous Episode with Rebecca What Threatens to Steal Your Joy? Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/ Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage! Love Fierce Calling? Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend! Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for fall/winter 2025 & 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event… Thanks for Listening! I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value, purpose, and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift Let’s have a chat about your next event! Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned. Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you. I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect … Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon. With love and joy, Doris P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲 Transcript Doris [00:01:40]:What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal, it might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Doris Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, Surrender the Joy. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Doris [00:02:31]:Using personal biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers. Surrender them to God. Reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others. You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the joy stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. Doris [00:02:56]:It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. I am so excited today to welcome back a returned guest, my friend Rebecca George. She is the founder of the podcast community Radical Radiance. She’s a speaker and an author whose greatest joy in life is discipling others to pursue their passions in a way that builds the kingdom, which is amazing and it’s also the heart of fierce calling and I love that so much. She was actually previously on and it was back in 23. That was right before her other book came out, do the Thing, Gospel Centered Goals, Gumption and Grace for the Go Getter Girl, which we love talking about. And that was episode 138. Doris [00:03:38]:And I will put that link in the show notes so you can check out that episode. And today we are going to talk about a lot of things, but we are also talking about Rebecca’s newest book, you’re not Too Late. Trusting God’s timing in a Hurry up world. And I just can’t think of a person that that message wouldn’t resonate with. So welcome to the show, Rebecca. It’s so great to have you back. Rebecca George [00:04:02]:Oh, Doris, I’m so happy to be with you. Thank you for having me again. Doris [00:04:05]:Yeah, I just love that we’re doing this. Well, Rebecca, you’ve been a super busy gal. You have a lot going on. You also have an amazing retreat that we can talk about too. You know what I really like in the back of your book. I love the whole thing about your book Your whole book. But you know the message that says, what does it look like to be faithful in the meanwhile? There was a quote that I really liked and it says the in between almost, but not yet. So the in between almost, but not yet, all like with little hyphens, tension is where we live most of our days. Doris [00:04:41]:So the in between almost, but not yet. We live there. We live there a lot. So we can definitely relate to that. And so we’re gonna jump right into this conversation. I would love if you would share a little bit about you, a little bit about your story and then also how you’re currently taking action where your passion, compassion and conviction intersection. Rebecca George [00:05:01]:So good. Well, I’m so excited to be with you. And a little about me. You, you did a beautiful job introducing me, but I’ll, I’ll add, and I think you will probably relate to this, Doris. There’s a lot of hats that we wear. Right. And so I’ll tell you kind of a few of mine. I’m a wife to Dustin. Rebecca George [00:05:16]:My husband is the lead pastor of our local church here in East Tennessee, where I live. You can’t tell by my accent. You’ll learn that pretty quickly. And so being involved in our local church is a huge part of my life for sure. And as you said, I have authored a couple of books and I’m in the throes of launching You’re Not Too Late: Trusting God’s Timing in a Hurry Up World. I also host a podcast myself called Radical Radiance, which just seeks to have conversations each, each week about what it looks like to radiate the heart of Christ and all that we do, our life, our work, our relationships, all of those things. And also, as you mentioned, host a retreat for people who do the work like you and I do of writing and speaking and podcasting. Rebecca George [00:05:59]:And I just absolutely love gathering like minded women in one place, just in a. In an environment that’s free of comparison and competition and a lot of the things that we can experience in our industry and just truly connect with one another and learn from one another. And so wherever I can create conversations, resources, experiences that accomplish that in some way, I feel like I’m, I am doing what you described that you, you, you described it really well of like the intersection of these three different things. And that’s when I feel like I’m in the, the thick of that. If that makes sense. Doris [00:06:42]:The sweet spot. Yeah, that’s perfect. And, and your ministry has just grown so wonderfully over the years. God has really Blessed it and brought so many amazing guests to your show. Like, you recently had Annie F. Downs on, and that was really cool. And so just building the Kingdom, you know, doing partnering with God and kingdom work is just so awesome. And. Doris [00:07:08]:And how you kind of put these messages out that we really, really can see ourselves in. You know, like, we can actually step into these things and realize, hey, you know, this message is also about me. Like, I. I’m a go getter girl. Sure, some days we might not feel like it, but really, every woman of God has a fierce calling is what I say. Rebecca George [00:07:34]:Yeah. Doris [00:07:35]:And so that’s what, you know, your messages really speak to as well. And, you know, I love how in the book, there’s just amazing case studies of real, real life women. You know, you share their stories and then you ask us how we kind of feel about that and how we can relate to that and how really each chapter is kind of exploring an opposing mindset or an opposing emotion or something. So if you could explain a little bit about how that came out. And also, and I love, thank you so much; I was so honored to write a piece for the devotional that you had as a giveaway. So that was cool. Doris [00:08:17]:And so, yeah, share a little bit more about that because that’s really something we can all relate to for sure. Rebecca George [00:08:23]:Totally. Yeah. I loved having you be a part of that, Doris, and so grateful for that. And, yeah, as I started dreaming with the Lord about this book, a little insider that most people don’t know, I thought this might be a singleness book at first, because I’d gotten married later in my 20s, which to some people might still be very young in terms of when they maybe got married or maybe they’re still waiting on their spouse. But I had been through a pretty prolonged season of singleness. I’d been a bridesmaid 12 times when I married my husband. And so I had just spent many years walking alongside other people and really meaningful people in my life, getting to experience the thing that I was longing for. Rebecca George [00:09:07]:So I’d really spent a lot of time navigating through that very imperfectly, if I’m honest. And I felt like I had a lot to say to single women walking through a similar journey. But as I started having conversations with important people in my life and just really considering this topic of longing, it felt so much bigger than just my desire to be married. Right. Because as I’m sure you could say about your own life, the day I married my husband was not the day longing ended for Me, it just now looks different, right? And so as I thought about that and prayed through that, there were all of these different areas that I have struggled with, whether it be doubt or like, the despair of like, will this ever happen for me? Comparison, isolation, feeling like I’m the only one that feels this way. The resentment that can build in our hearts when, when we have that prolonged season of waiting. And so I remember just scratching down all of these struggles for a very long time and just kind of wrestling through that with the Lord and then thinking like, okay, but I don’t want to stay stuck there. And I don’t want my reader to stay stuck there either. Rebecca George [00:10:16]:And I don’t want to miss the hand of God where I am today. And I feel like that’s happened in the past when I’ve been so focused on the thing that I want. And so I then began thinking like, okay, what if we turn from those struggles to a more gospel centered view of our waiting and of our longing? And that’s where kind of the shift started to happen in the chapter titles where I thought, okay, let’s like talk about what it would look like to go from despair to joy or doubt to hope, isolation to community, and all these different things. So I could have written about a lot more things, but we chose 10. We whittled it down to 10, and that’s what became the book. But yeah, that’s a little bit of the, the behind the scenes journey of that for sure. Doris [00:10:57]:Yeah. Nice. You’re right. I mean, there’s a lot that could be expanded upon in this particular arena of waiting and all of that. But I do love how it did transition to something bigger. And was, was that after you had written like a book proposal on it, was it originally for Singleness and then did it change? Rebecca George [00:11:19]:Well, what was interesting, you know, I wrote and released do the thing in 2023, as you mentioned a minute ago. That was when I was on the show last. And after the book had been out a few months, you know, I started dreaming about what was next. I was actually in a two book contract for do the Thing. And then what became, you’re not too late. And so naturally the conversation started of, you know, what’s next. Right. And I remember going back to my original book proposal and you know, as any author does who wants to show that they have kind of a vision for their career, I’d had some subsequent ideas that I, you know, might be something one day. Rebecca George [00:11:55]:And one of them was actually titled Always a Bridesmaid. Doris [00:11:59]:Ah. Rebecca George [00:11:59]:And. And I had a little description for it, and I, like, I don’t know, it might be a book I write one day. I don’t know. I have a lot more that probably feel more important to me now and significant to me now, but that was the one that, like, stirred my heart the most. And then I just. Honestly, before I took it to my agent, before I took it to my publisher, I just sat with a lot of people in my life and just said, like, what of my story do you think is kind of a thread here that I could talk about? And that was really where the longing conversation came in. And. And even the titling of this book was. Rebecca George [00:12:35]:Was a whole journey in and of itself. You’re Not Too Late was not the original title. And as I walked with this group that I’m in, a mastermind group and told them a little bit about the message, and one of them actually came back and said, I feel like what you’re trying to say is you’re not too late. And that feels like the raw nerve ending that’s kind of underneath what you’re trying to communicate here. And so I took it to my publisher, and they were so excited about it. And so I actually didn’t write a full proposal for this book, which is, I feel, like, really rare, and I’m really grateful I didn’t have to, but it. It actually. And I think this is interesting, like, flew out of me faster than anything I’ve ever written. Doris [00:13:16]:Wow. Rebecca George [00:13:17]:It was one of the harder books. I mean, of the two, do the Thing was a really fun message to write and a really fun message to talk about. And this was a lot more vulnerable of a message. But I think because it’s such a universal challenge for myself and every woman I know it, there were just many moments where I’d sit down to write and come up for air an hour later, and I’d have half a chapter, you know, because it just. It was so in me. So, yeah, it was a really fun book to. To work on. Doris [00:13:46]:Yeah, that’s awesome. And, you know, and I love how when you talk it out with people and that can go for anything, you know, you’re going through a struggle, something going on in your life, and all we need is in the word of God, you know, everything we need is in the word of God, and he gives us community, you know, and that’s a big part of what you talk about, too. I mean, in the book, you even talk about isolation versus community. And. Yeah, you know, that is. It’s so cool how These things come out in community that God gives each of us different gifts and talents and you know, he gives us all wisdom when we ask. And so I, I love how that kind of came about. It was like woo, kind of like a light bulb moment that happened. Rebecca George [00:14:32]:Totally. Doris [00:14:32]:So, and, and yeah, in the waiting, it’s just like what we said earlier. What does it look like to be faithful in the meanwhile? See, so what have you found to be a common thread, like for women when they’re waiting? Because it can be for a spouse, because it, and it could be any season in life that a woman is waiting. But what are some of the other things that you kind of discovered and learned as you went through your research for the book, talking to women who participated in the book? Does anything like stand out? Rebecca George [00:15:07]:Yeah, totally. I think it’s important to kind of zoom out a little bit, right? Because if we are so laser focused on like the earthly thing that we want, which is often a good thing, and I think that’s important to say a desire to be married, a desire to have children, a desire to grow in our careers, to get involved in a ministry, to start a business, to do things with excellence to the glory of God. All of those things are God given desires, but we view them imperfectly because we live in the midst of brokenness and we’re human and all of those things. So if we zoom out a little bit and go, okay, the reality that I’m experiencing now in a broken world is not as God created it to be in the garden. So if we zoom all the way back to the garden, perfect fellowship and communion with God as He designed it to be, that was severed because of sin. Then Jesus came, lived a perfect sinless life, died on the cross, made a way to reconcile our relationship with God. And so we live in this in between of navigating brokenness as we follow Christ and awaiting his return when he. When all things are set back as they should be and restored and redeemed and all of those things. Rebecca George [00:16:18]:And we experience glimpses of that here on earth, but we won’t experience it in its fullness until heaven. And so we kind of sit in the middle of that. And I say it’s kind of like we’re sitting between two Edens, right? It’s not as it was or will be. And so obviously our hearts desire things, our hearts long for things. And so many times our desire for that thing is actually just an imperfect reflection ultimately of our desire for that communion with God. That’s that unbroken fellowship. And so I think it’s what we do with those desires and how we view them rightly. I think so many times those things can become an idol. Rebecca George [00:17:02]:And I have a whole chapter about that in the book. And I remember turning that one into my editor and I was like, this is a pretty spicy one and I’m not apologizing for it. Like, I can’t write a book about longing and not talk about idolatry. Right. And so many times that good God given desire, we can elevate that thing to a place of prominence that’s meant for God. And then when that is the thing that’s sitting on the throne of our hearts, it’s really easy for us to just miss the hand of God in our current season of life. And I know that’s been true in my own life so many times. And so I think that’s a little bit of what happens in us for sure. Rebecca George [00:17:41]:And I think most commonly what we don’t always love to talk about, one being idolatry, the other one that’s kind of a hot button topic for me is resentment. I think so many times when we either experience that prolonged season of waiting or we’re watching everybody else get to experience the thing we desire, it’s just that kind of death by a thousand cuts type of thing in our hearts where that bitterness and resentment can really grow if we are unwilling to, to confront and really take that thing to the Lord of like, I just want to be really honest. Like, I desire to have kids and all my friends are having babies and I’m going to baby shower after baby shower, and yet I still have this longing in my heart. Lord, I just, you know my heart better than I do. And would you just grant me the joy to show up for my friend really well. But then also would you sit with me in the middle of that waiting? Like, if we’re unwilling to have those kinds of conversations, what happens in us is that that continued growth of that bitterness or resentment. And that I think is also really unhelpful. So, yeah, those are some of, I think, the most common ones. Rebecca George [00:18:51]:I would be curious to hear what you think. But as I researched and prayed through it, I think that’s oftentimes what happens. Doris [00:18:57]:Yeah, well, that was really beautifully said and just so true, you know, and, and I feel like sometimes some of those things Jesus said, he gave us his joy, that our joy would be full, but sometimes these things that get in our way kind of blocks our joy and we kind of can’t see it. It’s like an eclipse that occurs when the sun is, is covered over and it, it’s like, where’s the light? You know. And so I love the things that you touched on because definitely we can relate to those things. And how you talked about earlier comparison and people can say, you know, how many people are going to write about or talk about comparison? It’s like, well, we can’t talk about it enough because we keep struggling with it. So we need to be reminded not to do that. The comparison trap can really happen when, like you said, you, it’s kind of a balance between. You want to be joyful for others, but yet you don’t want to have that resentment and you don’t want to feel like bad because then it makes you feel guilty that you’re feeling bad, you know, about someone else who’s having something joyful happening in their life. And what you said earlier was so perfect because we are yearning for a relationship with God. Doris [00:20:12]:He’s the only one that fills that void in our life. Rebecca George [00:20:15]:Amen. Doris [00:20:16]:And so the struggle between the Eden, that was what we were meant to be like. The Blythe Daniel Agency, we love her agency. It’s our agency. And her brother wrote that book made for Eden. And it’s just, it’s so very true. So, so I love that so much. And another thing too, I wanted to mention that I really also think is powerful and important is you talk about in the book the prosperity gospel. There are so many people right now, even influential people who say they’re Christian and all of that, but have really drifted away from historical Christianity. Doris [00:20:56]:They aren’t like reading the Bible much anymore. As far as when they speak, it’s kind of. I don’t know if it moves more toward self help or what I guess Melissa Dougherty talks about like new thought, law of attraction and all of that. So if you could kind of talk a little bit about that and how that came about in your book and why it was so important for you to mention that. Rebecca George [00:21:18]:For sure. Totally. Also, you just got some major brownie points with me that you were willing to talk about this one because it was another one that I just felt so strongly that we had to talk about and confront in the book because so often. And you and I both love books. We love our industry, we love the work we get to do. And there are a lot of books filling our shelves today that are kind of this. And this is a Melissa Doherty ism as well. She, she says it’s a lot of this like self help with Jesus as our mascot kind of Thing like he biblical truth is the afterthought, not at the forefront of the message. Right. Rebecca George [00:21:52]:And so as I thought about my desires and how I view them rightly, how I view them in light of God’s word, I think so many times the messaging can look like this. Like if you just work a little harder, if you pray a little more, if you wait a little longer, if you hustle yourself a little bit, get up earlier, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, all of those things, it’ll happen for you. Right. And the problem with that equation is that makes it all about us. Doris [00:22:22]:Right? Rebecca George [00:22:22]:Right. Meaning that it happens in our own strength. We can will it to be in our own strength. And as a follower of Christ and as we look to Scripture, you and I both know that not to be true. And so it felt really significant to point that out because I don’t even think we always know when we’re doing it. Doris [00:22:41]:Right. Rebecca George [00:22:41]:Right. Especially when it comes to just those, those really significant longings in our hearts. Right. I can remember when I was single and, you know, I’m walking with a lot of other single women in my life. It would be this, like, well, maybe if I lost the weight or maybe if I just got out more, maybe if I just would put myself out there. Like, it was all so inward focused, rather than taking a step back and going like, man, God does not need my help. Doris [00:23:13]:Right? Rebecca George [00:23:14]:God does not need my help to orchestrate his plan. I get to praise God. I get to be a part of that and, and get to watch him hold the pen to my life and write the story. And now that I’m on the other side of getting married and I talk a lot about our story in the book, it was a story that I could have never written, you know, and, and that’s what I want to just point back and look back and say to all of our friends listening and even to myself as I look to the future with more longing in my heart is like, man, hand the pin over. You know, like, God will write such a better story than we ever could have. Doris [00:23:52]:Amen. Amen to that. Yeah. And you’re right, too. I think you kind of cover this in your book as well. You know, even when we long for something for so long and then it finally comes. Of course, when it does come and it has been something we’ve longed for for a long time, it just makes it so much sweeter in some ways. But then it, you know, but then we still have longings for other things. Doris [00:24:16]:And so it, you Know it. Oh, if only I could do this. Oh, if only this happened over. You know, we kind of like can do that, you know, the what ifs, if only and all that stuff. But yeah, it’s true. Like because of that humanness that we have, but yet that longing that we kind of misdirect in the wrong places. So yeah, that’s true. And, and yeah, I love really talking about truth because we don’t have to really be as concerned with the messages that are blatantly not biblical at all. Doris [00:24:50]:Like, you know, we can, you know, sense that we can smell that a mile away. Like, but there’s so many subtle things that slip in that all of a sudden something changes, the tide turns or whatever and we don’t, like, like you said earlier, you know, sometimes we don’t even realize when things are happening in our life. So, you know, can you talk a little bit about how that can come into play? Rebecca George [00:25:16]:Yeah, totally. Something that I think is really important about that, Doris, is so many times we’ve created this culture with technology that does not warrant us or have the desire for us to wait, right? Like if we want to order something on Amazon, it’s on our doorstep oftentimes by the end of the evening if we, you know, are strapped for time, but we want to make a home cooked meal, we don’t go to the grocery store, we just doordash everything to our house. If we have an early flight, we don’t inconvenience a friend, we just call an Uber and we’re there in 15 minutes, right? So we’ve created a world that in the insignificant parts of our lives does not cause us to have to wait or long for anything at all, really. Right. And so if I’m unwilling to do that about groceries and my travel plans, it is no surprise to me that my heart has no resiliency to do it in the things that really matter. And so I’m even finding myself challenging that a lot, right? Like it’s actually good for me to stand in line at the grocery store and there’d be two people in front of me and me actually not grab my phone to entertain myself for five minutes, right? You know, like have a conversation with the person in front of me in line. Doris [00:26:40]:Yeah. Rebecca George [00:26:40]:Right. Where I get stuck in traffic and like the anxiety kind of starts to swell in my heart and then I go, you know what? I’m not going to get there any faster back then like this, you know, and just kind of confronting those things because I think similar to how when we look at around other people’s lives and compare ourselves. It’s that death by a thousand cuts type of thing that gets us to the resentment. I think the journey out of that is in the same way making those small daily choices towards practicing resiliency and practicing waiting. Because our hearts will then have more patience towards it, more resiliency for it. When we’re talking about, you know, our kids struggling with infertility or our desire to be married, or we’re waiting for the promotion or whatever, our hearts will have just a greater sense of resiliency if we’re doing it in our everyday lives, you know. Doris [00:27:38]:Yeah. Wow, that is golden right there. I think that’s the title of your next book, the Holy Resiliency or something like that. The Holy Practice of Resiliency. I mean, even with Amazon prime, like two day delivery, we go, well, can we get it in a day? Because you can also get it in a day or same day. And now they have it even where you could get it in the middle of like the wee hours of the morning or like 4pm and 3am or something ridiculous. Like I was like, what did that start? That is kind of crazy. But yeah, so good because we do not work that muscle of resiliency. Doris [00:28:13]:Like, you know, it’s kind of like you wouldn’t expect to just go to the gym one day and then be able to run a 5k. Like you have to. Rebecca George [00:28:21]:Yeah. Doris [00:28:21]:You know, like work it out, work on it and do it in God’s time. Like, I love that your book talks about God’s timing because time and time again with that word, time, time and time again, we can see and look back and see like, wow, I had a longing for this for that long. But if I would have gotten that answer to prayer or whatever back when I wanted it, it wouldn’t have been as good as sweet. It wouldn’t have been exceedingly, abundantly above. Rebecca George [00:28:52]:Yeah. Doris [00:28:53]:What we ask or think like that God does in our life. So I love that you talk about writing things out in your book. You have us like write things out. What are some of your favorite parts of the book? Or even was there any parts of the book that came in later that you kind of added because it was needed? Rebecca George [00:29:13]:Yeah, I think. Oh man, there’s so much there. The Bench story is my favorite story that I got to write in the whole book. And so I’ll give our friends listening kind of the, the Spark Notes version. Doris [00:29:24]:Okay. Rebecca George [00:29:25]:As, as I said, you know, I experienced a pretty prolonged season of singleness before I reconnected with my husband. And we actually were in each other’s lives many years before we dated, which I think is so interesting. So many times, you know, if our friends listening are single, like, you may know your spouse, right? Like, who knows? Who knows if you already even, even know your spouse? But separately, God both said, sent us to the same trail in the Smokies, years apart. I was hiking with a friend. He was fishing by himself, and we actually stopped at the same bench on the same trail with the same waterfall in the background and prayed for one another years apart. And both took a picture of that day and discovered that it was the same place where. Where God had sent us to both pray for who we didn’t know at the time was. Was one another. Rebecca George [00:30:16]:And that was actually where Dustin proposed to me. And I remember talking with a friend about this book. So this wasn’t actually a late ad. It was probably the first thing I knew I was going to put in the book. I was telling her a little bit more about our story. And she’s a fellow author, Elizabeth Thompson, if you know her. And I, I told her kind of the thread of where I felt like the book was heading. And she said, rebecca, you have to bookend this book with the bench story, right? Like, tell, you know, your version of it at the beginning and, like, tie it in a bow with his at the end. Rebecca George [00:30:49]:And I do think it’s just such a powerful remind of how God is working in our lives and writing a story that we don’t always know the fullness of. And I think that’s really important to remember. So that’s been an encouragement for sure to a lot of readers and, and to me, it’s probably the most significant story I’ve been able to write in a book so far in my life. But I think the practical thing I’ll. I’ll leave our listeners with. It’s been helpful to me, is straight out of Scripture, but I talk about it at the end of every chapter. I call it the Search Me God prayer. And it’s straight from Psalm 139, verses 23 and 24, where the Psalmist says, search my heart, O God, try me and know my anxious thoughts. Rebecca George [00:31:26]:And if there be a grievous way in me, lead me in the way everlasting. And that has become a. A little bit of a prompt for me as I’m praying through my own seasons of longing, of just God. Would you examine my heart? Would you show me where this is causing me anxiety? Where the way I’m thinking about this is, is contradictory to your word and to your perspective. And would you point me back towards that? And I think that’s one of the most helpful things we can do as we be as we’re really honest before the Lord about what we’re struggling with. So more than anything practical I could give you that is a scripturally based just prompt that has been so helpful for me. Doris [00:32:05]:Yeah. So beautiful. We were just talking about that in our staff meeting at the church. You know how sometimes we can use those. I think, you know, we were talking about prayer. You know, like sometimes you just need help, like what to say and how to pray. And sometimes you’re in a place where you can’t even feel like you. You can even pray. Doris [00:32:26]:And then these prompts are so helpful, I think. Yeah. Rachel Wojo says they’re like borrowed prayers. So. And I love that you do the scriptures and praying the scripture and affirming, you know, the word of God, you know, and so that is so precious. And the bench story just gives me goosebumps or God bumps or whatever. That’s like. Rebecca George [00:32:48]:I know, right? Doris [00:32:49]:It’s so sweet, you know, it’s just so precious. And. And if someone is listening right now and that’s a longing that they have, maybe longing for a spouse. Pray for the. Pray for who your spouse is going to be that God will send. Because when we don’t have that resilience, we can make bad choices. Rebecca George [00:33:07]:Yeah. Doris [00:33:08]:And feel like because your book is. You’re not too late, which is a great message someone that’s listening right now really needs to hear because we tend to make decisions based on our emotions. And you know, it’s like we think we are too late and so we just have to settle. And that’s not what the message is in this book or in the word of God. So. So I encourage you all to pick up this book. It’s so amazing. And this has been a really fantastic conversation and you’ve just shared so many wonderful nuggets of truth and encouragement. Doris [00:33:49]:And I would love Rebecca if you would share. Where can the listener connect with you? Find radical radiance and your books and all the things. Rebecca George. Rebecca George [00:33:59]:Totally. I’m the most active over on Instagram. My handle is at Rebecca George, author. I’m a CCA Rebecca, so that should be pretty easy to find. And you can grab the book you’re not too late. Trusting God’s timing in a hurry up world. Wherever you like to buy books. Amazon, Barnes and Noble Christian book, all the places. Rebecca George [00:34:16]:And yeah, I would love to connect with you. Radical Radiance is the name of my podcast and we just actually walked through. I love it. Doris has the book right behind her. Doris [00:34:24]:So good. Rebecca George [00:34:25]:We just walked through the book chapter by chapter on the podcast for the last 10 weeks. So if there’s a topic that we talked about in this conversation that felt really tender to your heart or you want to dig into more, There’s a whole 30 to 40 minute conversation about it over on my show, so make sure to check that out. Doris [00:34:42]:So cool. And you can get videos that go. Rebecca George [00:34:44]:With the book and they are free to the reader. There’s a QR code in the introduction of the book and there’s an 11 session video series where I kind of walk alongside you throughout the book. So if you’re reading it alone and you just want a little extra jolt of encouragement, great. If you’re leading it in a small group and you just want a little 5 to 10 minute kickoff for me at each one of your sessions, I would love for you to use that for sure. Doris [00:35:07]:You are so precious and I just. And that is so great because the videos will help your readers really get to know you more on a little bit more personal level. I mean, as personal as we can get when you’re not in the same room. But you never know what God’s going to do. He might have you meet somebody in a bench or whatever. So we never know. God puts divine appointments in our path every single day. So yeah. Doris [00:35:30]:So wow, this has been so great. And yeah, I hope to have you on again. Rebecca George [00:35:35]:Yes. Doris [00:35:35]:Getting to be a thing and I’m loving it. So friends, thank you so much for listening today and I will put all the links in the show notes that Rebecca mentioned and also the link to our previous episode so you can listen to that. And friend, remember that you do have a fierce calling. Every woman of God has a fierce calling. And just be encouraged by that. Be encouraged by the way that God calls us to work with him in kingdom work. And that no matter where you’ve been, what you’ve done, or what’s been done to you, that God can use you. So I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action. Doris [00:36:13]:We’re passion, compassion and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week and I’ll talk to you soon.

Welcome back to Fierce Calling! In this inspiring episode, host Doris Swift sits down with Robin Gerblick, an award-winning author, biblical life coach, and founder of the Exodus Women’s Retreat. Robin shares her powerful story of redemption, from a painful past marked by abortion and decades of wandering, to finding healing and purpose through Jesus. Together, Doris and Robin discuss the real, raw, and redeemed journey that led Robin to embrace forgiveness, launch a transformative women’s ministry, and write her book, Giving Up Grace: A Spiritual Rebranding of the Soul. Robin opens up about the challenges she faced, the grace she found after hitting rock bottom, and how God used her story to impact the lives of other women. Whether you’re struggling with regret, searching for healing, or just needing a reminder that it’s never too late to step into your calling, Robin’s testimony will encourage you to trust God’s timing and reclaim your joy. Plus, discover how Robin’s retreats empower women to encounter God in the wilderness and take the next steps toward spiritual wholeness. Tune in for an honest, hope-filled conversation about surrender, restoration, and stepping boldly where passion, compassion, and conviction intersect! Episode Highlights 00:00 “Surrendering Joy Stealers” 05:17 “Real, Raw, Redeemed Journey” 09:27 Regret Over Missed Adoption Choice 11:53 “Seeking Identity Before Faith” 15:31 “Giving Up Grace Explained” 17:54 “Believing Is Seeing: Trusting God” 22:52 Abortion’s Lasting Impact on Fertility 24:41 Volunteering at Crisis Pregnancy Centers 28:33 “Grace: Healing and Reflection” 31:43 Grace, Stories, and Comfort 36:51 “Faith-Driven Success and Leadership” 39:48 Post-Abortion Support and Encouragement 42:49 Forgiveness Journey and Healing Resources Connect with Robin! You can connect with Robin at robingerblick.com where you’ll find her book, social media links, the Exodus Women’s Retreat, and more! She’d love to hear from you and continue the conversation! What Threatens to Steal Your Joy? Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/ Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage! Love Fierce Calling? Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend! Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for fall/winter 2025 & 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event… Thanks for Listening! I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift Let’s have a chat about your next event! Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned. Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you. I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another guest who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect … Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon. With love and joy, Doris P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲 Transcript Doris Swift [00:01:53]:What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Dora Swift, author of the award winning six week bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others. Doris Swift [00:02:56]:You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. Today, I’m excited to introduce to you my friend, Robin Gerblick. Doris Swift [00:03:17]:She is an award winning author. She’s a biblical life coach, a certified personal trainer, and Pilates instructor. Hello. I’m impressed with that. I need more of that in my life. And I just love that she’s a lover of life and the living water. That’s amazing. And she has so many things going on, wonderful ministry work that she does. Doris Swift [00:03:40]:She has, a retreat, the Exodus Women’s Retreat, and we’re also gonna talk about her book, Giving Up Grace, a Spiritual Rebranding of the Soul. And you’re gonna wanna hear all about that. And I would love if you would share a little bit more about yourself, Robin. Welcome to the show. Robin Gerblick [00:04:01]:Thanks so much, Doris. I’ve been looking forward to this. We’ve we’ve had a few schedule changes, and I’m excited excited to be here. So thanks. Doris Swift [00:04:10]:Thank you. And, yeah. So you are married to your best friend, which I love, and, and you go between a couple of different states. We were talking earlier, Arizona and Idaho. Right. So those of you who are listening, I know I have some listeners in those states. So, Robin, I would love if you would share a little bit about your story, however the Lord leads you, and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Robin Gerblick [00:04:39]:Yeah. That’s perfect. As we were talking about about earlier, I I just love that because that’s how how God uses us, and he calls us. And I love the scripture that you that you use, in your notes. It’s I’m gonna remind myself, but I think it’s the Ephesians three twenty. And I just love that because God is able to do so much more than we could ever possibly imagine and all the glory to him. But what I really love is it’s never too late to use your story. You know? God can always use it. Robin Gerblick [00:05:17]:And I I think for me, I always felt like I was late to the party. I’m a lot older than people think, and I just I just think it took me so long to well, it took me a really long time to find Jesus, number one, and then to find healing for my, my abortion journey that I had, my inability to have children because of that. It it just took so long that I I felt like like, god, are you ever gonna once I found Jesus, I’m like, are you ever gonna use me? It’s like it just seemed to go on forever. But, yeah, my story is is hard, and, I have these three words that describe it. So there it’s real, raw, and redeemed. And I know my life was just so upside down and hard when I was younger, but that started with an abortion when I was 19. And and I truly thought I was gonna marry that guy and have, you know, the family, the white picket fence, the station wagon, the 2.5 children, but that, it didn’t play out that that way at all. He he didn’t want anything to do with me. Robin Gerblick [00:06:35]:And, so that sort of started my what I called my forty year wandering in the desert like the like the Israelites, you know, searching for manna and living water and anything really that would fill the the spot that Jesus was meant to fill. But when you don’t know Jesus, you can go in a lot of a lot of different directions, which is what I did. And, you know, I I I wanna say I don’t have any regrets because God does use every bit of our story for his good and his glory. And if I had it to do over again, I well, there are certain things that I definitely would do differently. But, but what he’s given me now on the end of the redemption side is just so so amazing. And I think that’s where our our passion and compassion and conviction collide. Doris Swift [00:07:37]:Yeah. So true. And I love your your words, real raw redeemed. It’s just something that is is a powerful statement, and I know that a lot of us can really relate to that and how you talked about a forty year wandering. So things started to really spiral in your life when you were 19 then, and things didn’t look quite the way you thought they were gonna look, which oftentimes in our life, things happen and it’s not what we would have planned. And we might say, this is not my story, God. What, you know, what is this all about? But what was the circumstance at the time when you, you know, found yourself pregnant and was it something that others in your life were encouraging you to do? Or how how was it back then as a 19 year old girl? Robin Gerblick [00:08:35]:Yeah. And back then, when we’re talking, was, like, nineteen seventy three. So that was just when, you know, Roe v Wade was coming on the scene, and I was also on birth control when I got pregnant, which is a big misconception that a lot of people have and that the abortion industry would love to, you know, think have you think otherwise. But but, really, there’s quite a few women that do get pregnant on birth control. So you think you’re doing the right thing and and really you’re not. And I didn’t everyone, including my parents, wanted abortion for me. I didn’t know what I wanted because I was too young, too immature. I I I was just scared. Robin Gerblick [00:09:27]:You know? I was really scared. I just saw I was in just started college. I I saw everything going away, you know, all the dreams, all the goals, everything. And, again, you know, I didn’t I didn’t know Jesus, so there was a huge component missing in in all the decision making and and really what my heart would have wanted. And it’s funny because now I call myself this will bug you, but I call myself, pro choice because always have to say because. Right? But because women do have a choice. You know, we can choose to have our babies, or we can choose to give them up for adoption. And so my regret would be that I that I didn’t have my baby and give it up for adoption because today, I would know my child. Robin Gerblick [00:10:23]:And so, you know, that is a that is a choice. So women that think, you know, that they don’t have a choice, they really do. And and so I I had no counseling. There was no, well, let’s just say there was no compassion. Right? There was there was no no compassion for anything that I was going through. It was just like you’re gonna you’re gonna do this. This is the way it’s going, and that’s it. And that really was it. Robin Gerblick [00:10:53]:Mhmm. So that, excuse me, you know, did start my my forty years of wandering. And, you know, that led really of women in my generation that, you know, we were sort of the free love generation growing up anyway. So it led to a lot of, a lot of failed relationships with men, failed marriages where I felt like sex equated to love and love equated to sex. They were one and the same. And, of course, now today, we know they’re not. Right? But but back then, you know, it was all I could think about. If if a man paid attention to me and wanted to have sex with me, then, okay, that’s good for me. Robin Gerblick [00:11:39]:Right? That means he must love me, not understanding the love of my heavenly father and and how he loves me as his daughter. That that didn’t come into the equation back then. Doris Swift [00:11:53]:Yeah. And because at that time, because you didn’t know Jesus and you didn’t really know everything that was true really about you, you know, who you really were. Your your true identity, you didn’t really know that at the time. And so, yeah, equating sex to love and just to feel wanted by someone, you know, wanted Yes. In that way, wanted it all, you know, and to just walk the path that just continually brought the destruction of where that was taking you. So when you found Jesus, like, what was going on in your life right before you met him? Because usually there’s something interesting right before we meet Jesus in our life. So what was going on in your life, Robin, when that was Robin Gerblick [00:12:43]:Yeah. Doris Swift [00:12:43]:Was almost, you know, when you made that that decision? Robin Gerblick [00:12:48]:That’s so true. And it, it really was a divine appointment with with God because I was I was in a place of sheer desperation, really. And my grandmother talked about an event. Yes. My grandmother had just passed away. And at the time, I was dating a guy who great guy, but he had custody of his four children. And so me wanting children and not being able to have children, you know, I thought, oh, this is the perfect relationship. But as I was realizing, I I can’t have a perfect relationship until I have a relationship with Jesus first, which is the direction he was leading me, but I just hadn’t recognized it yet. Robin Gerblick [00:13:32]:So I had all this stuff, you know, going on in my head and in my heart, and I I just I took a walk down below where I lived, and we have a a beautiful, like, stream or river down there. And I just sat on a rock, and I cried out to god literally. I I I I just said I can’t I can’t do it. I can’t do life like this anymore. It’s just not working for me, and I need help. I need help. So I was crying out to the god that I didn’t know, not knowing that he would answer me, and he did. Wow. Robin Gerblick [00:14:09]:And he answered it. Oh, I did. He, you know, he gave me this, lightning bolt experience that was you know, in our in our culture, you know, we believe that seeing is believing. But that day on the river, I found out that believing is truly seeing because he gave me all five senses in in the in the sensory experience that was supernatural, where I could I could see my life laid in front of me. And I could see the the man that I was with and his four children, and god was very, very clear. This is not the one. I’m the one. I’m the one. Robin Gerblick [00:14:50]:And until you figure that out, there’s not gonna be the one. It’s gonna be me. And so Doris Swift [00:14:57]:have. Yeah. Robin Gerblick [00:14:58]:It was it was a huge, a huge thing. I mean, I I ran back up the hill to my house. I called I called that guy, and I said, you’re a great guy. I love you. I’m you’re a a great friend. I love your children, but I can’t be with you. I I mean, like, it ended that quickly. And probably within, you know, like, a few weeks, god brought me the my best friend, the man I’m married to now of thirty two years this year. Robin Gerblick [00:15:31]:And, you know, god, he had this all all planned out ahead of time, and all I needed to do was receive. I needed to receive Yeah. His grace. But, there’s if you if you don’t mind, this might go a little off off where we’re talking right now. But but the reason that the book is called what it is is really because it all came back to that moment on the river. And god you know, talk about passion and conviction and all of that, but god gave me the whole vision of the book ten years before I ever actually published it. But but the name giving up grace, people, you know, they ask about that a a lot because they’re like, what do you mean giving up peace? Why would you give up? You know, god you know, they just assume god’s grace, and it is part of god’s grace. But I said, well, sometimes you need to be lost in order to be found. Robin Gerblick [00:16:39]:And sometimes, you need to give up the grace that you don’t know in order to get the grace that you really need. And in my case, I gave up my unborn daughter, Grace, in order to receive God’s grace. That was how he he had it planned all all along. Mhmm. And the spiritual rebranding of the soul came it it didn’t, I can say it didn’t come exactly that day because my now husband and I found Jesus together, our relationship with Jesus. Jesus came into my life that that day. But but what happened during that is a spiritual rebranding is what happens to us when we find Jesus. You know, we all of a sudden are a new creation. Robin Gerblick [00:17:27]:The old things have passed and the new is here. And that’s what he did to me. He just rebranded my my soul, and I’m a new creation in Christ. And then it’s like once all of that came to be, then my husband, my now husband and I, you know, it was just such a beautiful divine just a divine moment. Doris Swift [00:17:54]:Wow. That there is so much to unpack right there, you know, with all that you had just shared. It’s amazing. And I love how you said believing is seeing because that makes so much sense. And just the things how kind of God just put on your heart, the person you weren’t with wasn’t the right person, you know, for you to marry. You know, that wasn’t the one you were meant to be with. And so when we seek the Lord first, we can trust that we’re not gonna miss what he has for us. Like, if we try to do things on our own and we don’t go to him, or maybe we might not know him yet, and maybe someone who’s listening right now is listening because there was something in your story they needed to hear. Doris Swift [00:18:51]:And I love the fact that this happened in front, like, sitting by a river. What a beautiful place. You know, when we’re outside and we we just can see all the beautiful things that God created. So we can’t deny there is a creator because of all the beautiful creations and you’re out there and you’re by the water. You know, it didn’t have to happen in some, like, conference or church service. You know, it was something personal between you and the Lord and that you were humble to ask for help. And, really, that’s all it takes, you know, for us to just say, Lord, I need you. And it’s like, you know, he’s probably like, well, it’s about time. Doris Swift [00:19:37]:You know, you realized. But but you believed there was a god. Right? So you knew I mean, you weren’t sure who you were talking to, but you always had believed there was a god, or how were you kinda brought up? Was that something that you had always always believed? Robin Gerblick [00:19:52]:Right. No. It wasn’t. So I I did not grow up in a Christian home. My parents were wonderful. I had, you know, just a great a great childhood, but we didn’t we didn’t go to church. We were called the CEOs, Christmas and Easter only. And so that was my Doris Swift [00:20:13]:Or the creaster. Robin Gerblick [00:20:14]:Yeah. There we go. But, yeah, that was my my introduction, I guess, to religion. And when I was in junior high, I did attend, youth group for a while. But but what I saw there and I don’t, you know, I don’t know. This was just my young perception of it, but it seemed so hypocritical at the time where where I’d see people that were that were being Christ like during on Sunday, let’s say. But then during the week, they were completely different and not living what they said they were living on Sunday. And so it I I don’t know. Robin Gerblick [00:20:56]:I had a lot of disillusionment there, so I quit going. But but I always believed that there was a god, and and in the book, I talk I talk a lot about that, about growing up and how god was present during all stages of of my life. It’s just that I didn’t recognize it. You know, he has so many characteristics of of his grace that manifested themselves throughout my life. And I just, my eyes weren’t open until the day on the river. And then there were so many incredible incredible supernatural events that that god just, you know, like, you are gonna know that I am who I say I am. Right? I’m I’m gonna show you. Doris Swift [00:21:47]:Yeah. And you just and you asked. You were like, please, Lord, you know, help me. Yeah. And you like you said, you were at a point of desperation, and sometimes that’s what it takes to be at that point and to experience that very warm, loving, powerful presence of God. Because there’s so many that might go through life just kind of complacent. Robin Gerblick [00:22:11]:Mhmm. Doris Swift [00:22:12]:Even believing, you know, knowing Jesus, believing Jesus, but never having, like, some kind of experience like that. And, you know, sometimes it just takes being at the lowest parts of the valley, you know, in the pit, basically, to see, you know, that God is there. And like you said, believing is seeing. And so when you because you were talking talking a lot about what happened after you had had your abortion, so then when did you find out that this caused, a a physical issue with you not being able to have children? That was that was the the cause of that? Robin Gerblick [00:22:52]:Mhmm. Yes. And, unfortunately, in the abortion that I had when I was 19, while it was my first, it wasn’t the last. And so I I have been married, three times before with my now husband. And so during those relationships, even though they were not, good, I I call them there were so many spiritual red flags. But, again, prior to that, I didn’t I didn’t know Jesus. And so, all of these things came up, but in my heart, I still wanted to have children. And so as my life progressed with these relationships in, going through infertility treatments and things like that, come to find out that there was just too much damage from the abortion, which is another kind of a a lie that we hear from the abortion industry is that, you know, they’ll say, oh, yeah. Robin Gerblick [00:23:51]:You can have multiple abortions and still get pregnant, which is true. But but they’re not telling you the other part is that there are serious consequences, physically, mentally, emotionally, all of that that that take place and may not take place right away afterwards. But Yeah. But as you as you live out your life and you start feeling the the emptiness or the bitterness spirit or spirit of offense or spirit of unforgiveness arising in yourself, you have to ask yourself, what is it that’s manifesting in my life that’s causing all of this? So I I went through all of that, but but through that, I found out that I couldn’t have children. There was just too much, damage done. Doris Swift [00:24:41]:Yeah. And as you were talking, because I, you know, I was thinking back, I volunteered several years at a faith based pregnancy center, a crisis pregnancy center, you know, where and it you know, it’s still, a ministry that I support today, and women can come in and get a free pregnancy test and, you know, and and there were a lot and still are, of course, women who come in who come in abortion minded and not really understanding or knowing all the facts and all the information that they really need in order to make, you know, an informed decision about that. And I you know, if and if you go to, you know, planned parenthood or something, they’re not gonna tell you that side of the story at all. And so, and we did have also and it’s still you know, the pregnancy centers do have the abortion recovery because statistically, if you’re in a room with, I don’t know, so many women, I I think it’s one out of every four. It might be one out of every three or two now that have experienced that in their life. And to be able to go forward for with the healing and to know that they can be forgiven and set free. And and part of that program at the end is to name your child. And you talk about your baby girl, Grace. Doris Swift [00:26:08]:Right? Yeah. Tell us how you came up with how did that happen with naming her? Robin Gerblick [00:26:13]:Yeah. That was, it’s such a good story. This is, you know, fast forward, you know, years later because I’m I’m now married to my wonderful husband, Jim. And and, I was speaking, for a woman’s group in Portland, Oregon, and there was, the director of the crisis pregnancy center was in the in the audience, and she asked if I’d like to come back to her. They just redone or redecorated. And I said, oh, sure. Yeah. I’ll I’ll love to come. Robin Gerblick [00:26:44]:Love to see it. So I walk in the door, and on the wall, there’s this chart of baby fetuses and all their stages of development. And I just lost it because I’ve never seen that before because I nobody ever gave me any counseling. I never got I mean, I it just I I literally just lost it in in her office and started crying uncontrollably. And she came and put her arms around me and said, honey, have you not have you not ever addressed your abortion and the grief and the trauma? Because it is trauma, and we have a certain amount of PTSD that that follows that that, you know, people may or may not acknowledge, but I hadn’t acknowledged it until that moment. And she took me in her office, took me under her wing. We were there for over two hours, and she counseled me and walked me through the different, the different stages that that we go through, you know, from from like, first of all, do I even need healing to to relief? Oh, great. I got it done. Robin Gerblick [00:27:59]:You know, now I don’t have to worry about it. I can get on with my life to denial. Oh, really wasn’t a baby. It was just a clump of cells, you know, to the anger, to the bitterness, to the forgiveness, all all the stages. And so she’s the one that suggested. She goes, well, have you named your child, your unborn child? And I said, no. That I mean, that would have never occurred to me. But that day, that then and there, I I named her Grace because really no other name would do. Robin Gerblick [00:28:33]:And Beautiful. And and then beyond that, when I left, when I at the time, I thought, oh, it was kinda creepy in a way that she gave me a a baby fetus doll of 10 because that was how far along I was when I aborted the first time. And the first time was so different than the second time, but, but she gave me this little doll. And for years, I didn’t know what to do with with the little doll. However, once that healing process started, I took Grace, and I have this beautiful, beautiful box that she’s in. And she lies on a a bed of cotton, And she’s surrounded by all the things that would have saved her life and would have saved my life had I known. There’s my mother’s cross, my grandmother’s cross, letters that I have written to her. There’s a rock in there that you know, heart shaped rock that has her name Grace on it. Robin Gerblick [00:29:40]:Just all of these things that, you know, like I said, that would have saved her life and would have saved my life. But interestingly enough, last year, I just started taking Grace with me on speaking engagements. And I want Yeah. Yeah. I want people to see the the evidence of of a redeemed life and that there’s hope no matter no matter what you’ve gone through. And I love there’s a if I can find it. There’s there’s a a quote that I that I just love, and I’ve I’ve come across this fairly recently, but it it’s so it’s so perfect for this. But it’s by, author Tim Timothy Keller, Walking with God through Pain and Suffering. Robin Gerblick [00:30:33]:But he says the idea that there is nothing in the human experience that God himself has not suffered even losing a child. I mean, when you when you think about, you know, like, all the things that we’ve gone through and and abortion, obviously, is just one, you know, one teeny thing. But but when we realize that that god and Jesus have walked through, there isn’t anything they haven’t walked through that we walk through or potentially walk through. And how Yes. How beautiful and sustaining is that for us, for our hope, you know, our hope in Jesus and for understanding his grace. That’s that’s his grace. He I mean, he showered me with his grace, which is why I had to write a book, talk about conviction. He said, you’re gonna write your story. Robin Gerblick [00:31:32]:Well, I don’t really wanna write my story. Well, guess what? You’re gonna be obedient. You’re gonna write your story. And now my life is like an open book. It is an open book. So Doris Swift [00:31:43]:Yeah. Wow. Beautiful. How, you know, the just the the picture in our minds of being showered grace upon grace and then writing that book to give him glory and share your story. Because it’s when the time is right and when God calls us to share our story, it’s it’s vulnerable, you know, for people to do that. But when we see and we know that the the word tells us that we can encourage others and comfort others through things because we have been through them and comforted by the comforter. And someone recently had had said, I think it was Abby McDonald we were talking, and you need comfort because you’ve gone through something. So if you don’t if you don’t go through anything, which life you know, of course, Jesus said in this world, we would have trouble to take heart. Doris Swift [00:32:41]:He’s overcome the world. But if we didn’t have a need for a comforter, we would never be comforted and know what that means. And then to be able to use our story of where we’ve been to comfort others and bring that hope to others, which is what you’re doing with your ministry. And and you have this also this retreat. And so how did that come about? Robin Gerblick [00:33:07]:Yeah. And that’s that’s totally, a god a god thing too. And back when, I used to be a competitive, bicycle rider, a long distance bicycle rider. And I went to a bike racing camp in in Napa Valley in the hopes of getting a job with this woman that put on these, bike racing retreats, camps, whatever. And that was the reason that I went there. And one of the one of the exercises that we did there was finding your heart’s desire. And prior to that, I have to backtrack on that, we had the first day of riding. It was it was record heat in Napa Valley, and it was, like, a hundred and five. Robin Gerblick [00:34:02]:And our first ride was up this ridiculous hill, hill climbing, like, right out of the gate. And I just I just bonked. I mean, literally, I bonked. I had to have the support van come and get me. I had heat stroke. I it was terrible. It was terrible. So I never got to do I never got to do any more riding on the five day five day retreat. Robin Gerblick [00:34:25]:But I did go and do her exercise of the heart’s desire, which I found was, kind of a little bit of hocus pocus. You know, it wasn’t it wasn’t my belief system. It was, you know, more of a universal and kind of Doris Swift [00:34:43]:Kinda like new age type thing. Robin Gerblick [00:34:45]:Kind of yeah. Like new age y thing. And and I just thought, okay. Well, I can I can ignore that part? I can still try to figure out what my heart’s desire is. And through the exercise, I found that my heart’s desire was leading women to Christ in a wilderness place just like the Israelites were in the desert. And and so during that exercise, she came up to me and she says, you know, Robin, she said, I I, I don’t really see you as a fit for our our company. She said, but what I do see is you starting your own retreat organization and leading women, you know, as you see god leading you. And and she said, but you should go home and make a vision board and, you know, have her you do it. Robin Gerblick [00:35:40]:You know, pray to your God. And so I’m like, that’s a great idea. So so I did, and and God just showed up big time. And, again, he gave me the name, and he said, you need to call it Exodus. And I’m like, oh, okay. And so, you know, I thought that’s a great name. Second book of the Bible. Okay. Robin Gerblick [00:36:02]:I’ll take it. And and so the that started. And in this this year, we celebrate our twentieth year of Exodus women’s retreats. Wow. Twenty years. Doris Swift [00:36:16]:That’s awesome. Robin Gerblick [00:36:17]:And and it’s Doris Swift [00:36:18]:Twenty years. Mhmm. Robin Gerblick [00:36:20]:Yeah. It started out, you know, very, very slow, and and I have to say I was, you know, discouraged in the beginning. We weren’t associated with any church. We were just associated with Jesus. And and I thought, oh, this will be a piece of cake. I’ll just go and talk to women’s ministry directors. They’ll love it, and they’ll sign their girls up. Well, that that didn’t happen because they didn’t know me from from Adam, and they didn’t know what my spiritual beliefs and convictions were. Robin Gerblick [00:36:51]:And it took me a a few years to understand that. And then once we got a website and started going online and people could find us, it just it really, really took off to where it it’s just in incredible now, and we keep asking ourselves, like like, when are we gonna when are we gonna retire? You know? Because I still have some of the same team members that I started with twenty years ago. But god’s not done with us yet. And I’m telling you, this my team talked about, you know, passion and and the whole conviction thing. And it it like, the first year that we did the retreat, we were super small and nothing like how it is right now. But, but the second year of the retreat, I heard god say loud and clear. Right? He said, how do you expect to be the leader of Exodus if you’ve never read the book of Exodus? Oh, yeah. That was like a you know, when like I said, when he shows up, you know, he he can show up really big and but it was like he was sitting right next to me and saying, you know, how how do you expect to lead when you don’t you don’t really know the story of Exodus? So I took a year off, and I studied the book of Exodus. Robin Gerblick [00:38:13]:And then I realized, you know, why God gave me the name for it, you know, because it was our it’s our spiritual journey into our wilderness seasons, and everybody has them. Right? And so what better way to get out of your wilderness season is to be in a physical, beautiful wilderness. So the retreats, they’re always done. We always do them on water, some kind of water. Sometimes we have to count a pool as water, but most of the time, we’re we’re in, very remote places that are hard to get to because, what the Israelites went through wasn’t easy. You know? They’re they’re forty years of of wandering. You know? But but, you know, what Moses did was to get away. You know? He he he went out into the wilderness. Robin Gerblick [00:39:05]:He spent three days in the wilderness seeking God and seeking God’s face. And so that’s what we do. It it’s just so cool. Doris Swift [00:39:14]:Wow. That is so beautiful. And I love that you took that year off to study Exodus. You know, how God directed you to it. Because it’s like, once you went through that book and you really, really, like, immersed yourself in that, you know, it it just it would seem would bring so much more meaning to what you were doing, you know, and how it all connected and related and how God gave that to you in the in the first place. So wow. That is really fascinating. I’m so glad that we talked about that. Doris Swift [00:39:48]:And I would love, Robin, if you would share maybe if you have a last, encouraging thing you wanna share with who is listening today because we might have, you know, someone who is listening that is struggling right now. Maybe they are post abortive and just, you know, things are manifesting in their life, things are happening. Because, oftentimes, I’m going through even counseling, because I do lay counseling and all. Just there are so many things that happen in a woman’s life and she may not realize, because I think you kind of alluded to that too. You may not realize that it’s connected to something in your past, which could have been maybe an experience with abortion or, just, you know, the wilderness as it is. You let like you said, there are seasons of wilderness that people go through. And so, if you could just share a word of encouragement right now, maybe one step forward that they can take, and then how the listener can connect with you and find out all about, you know, your book, your ministry, your your coaching, and this amazing retreat. Robin Gerblick [00:40:56]:Well, thank you. Thank you for that opportunity too. But I I think the biggest component, of all of that is is finding forgiveness. Like, we can’t we can’t really move forward until we find forgiveness. And when if you know if you know Jesus, then you know that you’re forgiven by him, but there’s also the component of forgiving ourselves. And so many people, you know, hide under the guilt and shame that, you know, oh, I’m I’m just not good enough. You know, I’m not enough. I hear that all the time. Robin Gerblick [00:41:34]:I’m just not enough. Why would Jesus? Why I mean, you know, maybe he can forgive me, but I, you know, I’ve done so many, you know, horrible things, whatever whatever it is. But but there’s another one of my favorite quotes is by is by author Adam Ramsey, and it says, Jesus is not disillusioned with you because he never had any illusions about who you were in the first place. He Doris Swift [00:42:02]:Wow. Right. Robin Gerblick [00:42:03]:Right? Like, he he created you before before you were even born. He saw you in your mother’s womb. He gets it. He knows you. He knows your heart. And when when I read that, I was like, oh, yeah. Well, why am I putting if Jesus isn’t putting that that kind of thing on me, why am why am I putting it on myself? So, you know, I think whatever whatever it takes for somebody to walk through the the healing of forgiveness, and I’m sure you’ve heard the, you know, the thing is like, unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting, you know, the other person to die, but you’re the one drinking the poison. You’re the one that’s poisoning yourself. Robin Gerblick [00:42:49]:And so, you know, I went through and that may be something for another another time, but my whole forgiveness journey is is huge. But, I think women need to know that back when I had my abortion, there there were not the resources out there today that or then that are, available today. And there’s just there’s so many things. You know? Even even our our church, you know, does a a which I’m actually leading right now, a post abortive trauma healing class. And, you know, so I think, you know, church is a great place to to start. You know, there’s a whole Christian counseling network out there where you can find, you know, Christian counselors that that deal with, you know, all kinds of wilderness experiences. And and then just seeking God’s word, you know, because his word is the is the ultimate, you know, the ultimate saving piece of our of our life. And and it allows us to understand the character and the nature of God through his grace and his word. Doris Swift [00:43:58]:Amen. Thank you. That is so encouraging. And I’m sure that someone listening right now really needed to hear that today. And I would love, Robin, if you could share with the listener how they can connect with you, may maybe any resources that you have that you’d love to to share about? Robin Gerblick [00:44:15]:No. I think if they just go to my website, which is, easy. It’s just robingerblick.com. And on the website, the the the book is there. There’s a link that goes to our Exodus Women’s Retreat page. There’s also a resources page, for different organizations that I that I feature, like, each month. So it’s kind of a one stop shopping kinda thing. So that that’s probably the best way to connect. Robin Gerblick [00:44:48]:And if you need prayer, there’s you know, you can just drop me a note, and I’ll be happy to pray for you or whatever your situation is. Doris Swift [00:44:58]:That’s amazing. And I’ll put that in the show notes so the listener can find you. And like you said, it’s easy. Just your name, Robin Gerblig. Yeah. And it’s easy to it’s it’s spelled just how it sounds, so that’s easy. And I would I I really enjoyed our conversation today. It was so great to have you on, and I would love to have you back on sometime because I think there are some things that we could really continue to talk about, and that would be really great. Doris Swift [00:45:26]:Yeah. I would love that. Robin Gerblick [00:45:28]:Yeah. Thank you so much, Doris, for the opportunity. It was my pleasure. I loved it. Doris Swift [00:45:33]:Thank you. And and thank you, friends, for listening today, and I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who’s taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Welcome to another episode of Fierce Calling! Today, host Doris Swift sits down with the inspiring Stephanie Alton—literary agent, marketing expert, wife, and mom, who shares how profound moments happen when we listen to God. Stephanie encourages us with her remarkable journey, including unexpected steps and small beginnings that God used to lead her right where she’s meant to be. Through stories of divine timing, open doors, and the willingness to say “yes,” Stephanie offers practical advice, reminding us that every big dream starts with small, faithful steps. Whether you’re looking to step into your calling, start writing, or need encouragement in a difficult season, this conversation will remind you that God’s purpose unfolds in ways we never expect. So grab your coffee or tea, get comfortable, and get ready to be inspired by the story of how ordinary obedience can lead to extraordinary impact. Episode Highlights 00:00 “Surrender Your Joy Stealers” 05:18 “Divine Path to Literary Agent” 10:57 Embracing Opportunities in Publishing 12:15 “Journey to Becoming a Gatekeeper” 18:33 Undeniable Divine Intervention 20:31 Milestone Moments of Faith 23:05 Understanding Audiences and Unique Voices 29:16 “Building Your Writing Platform” 32:21 Steps Lead to Big Opportunities 35:46 “Know Your Audience’s Expectations” 40:50 Parenting Reflections and Growth 41:53 Cherishing Motherhood and Personal Timing 45:51 Join Our Book Pod Network 49:07 Blessings and Goodbye for Now Connect with Stephanie! You can connect with Stephanie through The Book Pod Review and Interview Network Facebook group, as she mentioned in the show! You can also find out more about her and which conferences she’ll be attending at theblythedanielagency.com, which is in the process of being updated soon. Stephanie Alton is a wife, mom, literary agent, and marketing expert. What Threatens to Steal Your Joy? Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/ Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage! Love Fierce Calling? Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend! Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025 & 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event… Thanks for Listening! I hope this episode encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift Let’s have a chat about your next event! Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned. Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you. I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect … Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon. With love and joy, Doris P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲 Transcript Doris [00:01:53]:What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Dora Swift, author of the award winning six week bible study, Surrender the Joy Stealers Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You, And it helps women rediscover the overflowing, ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to God, reawaken the joy within, and share the joy with others. Doris [00:02:56]:You can do it on your own or with a group. Check it out, friends. Surrender the Joy Stealers. Rediscover the Jesus joy in you. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. Today, I’m excited to introduce to you my friend, Stephanie Alton. Doris [00:03:17]:She is an amazing literary agent and a marketing agent. She’s a mom, a wife, and a million other things that she does. She’s a a busy gal, and she is with the Blythe Daniel agency, which is my literary agency. So, of course, I love them so much. And we’ve connected over the years in a lot of different ways. I used to be a blogger in their blog, network and just kind of connected at conferences. And Stephanie has an amazing story that she wants to share with us. So welcome to this show today. Doris [00:03:53]:It’s so great to have you, Stephanie. Stephanie Alton [00:03:55]:Thanks for having me, Doris. I love getting to see you, and thank you so much for having me. Doris [00:04:00]:Thank you. I I appreciate you being on. And we actually tried this once before, but we kind of chatted all the way through, and Stephanie Alton [00:04:06]:we never actually recorded. Doris [00:04:07]:But that was fun, and I enjoyed it. And it was meant to be for that day. You know, sometimes we make plans. You know, God directs our steps, and that was what what was meant to happen that day. So this was meant to happen on this day. So I would love it. So I just you know, how he moves in our lives and everything. And and so I would just love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you’re taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Stephanie Alton [00:04:35]:Okay. Well, to touch back to what you were saying the last time we tried to connect, I think, a while ago, today, I was sitting there thinking I was like, oh, no. Not again. This time, it’s gonna be tech issues or something. And so I was thinking, there’s probably gotta be something really good that’s gonna come out of our conversation today. The last time we tried, we just went way off course and chatted all of our time away. And then this time, I’m like, I’m probably well into my appointment time, and I still cannot get in there. So, I’m just gonna believe that our time today is anointed and meant to be something important. Stephanie Alton [00:05:18]:But, I think the most relatable way that I could share that god has moved through my life is how I became a literary agent. And I think it even started when I felt the calling to become a writer. But I’ll I’ll I’ll fast forward through that part and then get to the good another good part because there’s two really divine interactions that I’ve had with writing specific, but this one led me to my job. And I had met Blythe, Blythe Daniel of the Blythe Daniel agency, at a writer’s conference and, pitched her my project. It was my first writer’s conference, and I made every single rookie mistake you can make. So if anyone’s thinking about writing, you’re you’re in good company, and I come with a humble heart. I have made all the mistakes. And I still make mistakes now, so, there’s that too. Stephanie Alton [00:06:23]:I met her. I connected with her. It was, like, right when Facebook was, like, the ultimate thing. It was so cool. And if somebody was your accepted your friend request, it was even cooler. So, after the conference well, she had told me no on my projects politely. She’s like, well, do some work on it and then send it back to me in, like, six months. And I was like, yes. Stephanie Alton [00:06:46]:I didn’t get a direct no. So, I took that with, like, a little bit of a dose of excitement. And, I friended her, and she accepted. And I was like, major win. And then, I just kept an eye on her because she would share about different conferences she was going to or little events that she would do in Colorado Springs where where she lives. And, I had fam I still have family there. So I always kinda, like, was watching to see if when I was going to Colorado, if she was doing something, and she always had so much interaction. Like, so many people would respond to anything she posted. Stephanie Alton [00:07:32]:And, again, this was years ago over ten years ago when Facebook was, like, so so cool. And one time, she posted that she needed she wanted somebody to review a movie for her, and I thought for sure there would already be, like, dozens of people saying, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. But there was no one there, and it the post had been up for a couple of hours. And so I sheepishly raised my hand and say, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. Thinking she was gonna reply with, no. You you don’t have enough email subscribers or a big enough platform or this, that, and the other. Stephanie Alton [00:08:08]:But she said yes. And she not only sent me one movie to review, she sent me two. And so I thought, oh, man. I’ve gotta get this done right away. Like, it’s top priority. And so I I watched the movie and took a bunch of notes, and I I did the review, and I sent it to her. And we were just corresponding about you know, she was like, so have you been working on your project and this, that, and the other. And during this season of communicating with Blythe, we had recently moved to Colorado Springs to be near my husband’s family. Stephanie Alton [00:08:43]:And we were living in my sister in law’s basement. It was finished. It’s nice. It’s beautiful and everything, but it’s still basement of your sister-in-law. Mhmm. So, the job that my husband had was paying him probably about 25% of what he was promised, which was a significant sting. We were basically living for free and could not get by. So, I had I had this calling with writing, and I’ve been blogging and doing these different things. Stephanie Alton [00:09:18]:And one afternoon, evening time frame, I just I left my bedroom. I was walking out. I just finished doing some writing, and I was like, alright, god. You want me to do this stupid writing thing? I need to get paid for it. And I was thinking I was gonna get an article that I had never written, and it was just gonna happen or something. I don’t know what I was thinking, but I was like, I need to get paid for this. It’s taking too much time, and I need some money. And so I just left the room with my sassy little attitude and went on with the evening, probably cooking dinner and getting my littles in bed and stuff like that. Stephanie Alton [00:10:00]:And so the next morning, as my alarm went off, I popped open my email because I had been getting I’ve been in communication with Blythe, and she’d been sending them early in the morning because she’s an early bird. And I was looking to see if there was anything there, and there was. And she was like, this is probably gonna sound so strange, but I feel like God is asking or telling me to ask you to come and work with me, and I about dropped the phone. I was like, nuh-uh. No way. And she was like, I really would love for you to come and help launch this blog network that I want to put together. And she’s like, if this is just too weird or whatever and and you don’t wanna do something like that, I I would still love for you to be a part of it and do reviews and stuff like that. And I was like, I had to, you know, put the phone down, go on with my morning, and keep my cool, and make it look like I wasn’t gonna say yes, like, instantly. Stephanie Alton [00:10:57]:Get I had to, like, you know, leave a little bit of time in there. And so, I was like, yes. I would love to do that. And, from there, I I did go on and start helping her with mailing books for publicity campaigns that she was doing and coordinating the blog network and doing, just basic communication, keeping track of things. And then as that got got into a really good rhythm and had a good sense of things, I just started saying yes to anything she was asking me to do, and it evolved into me going with her to writer’s conferences and and seeing from the professional side of things how things how she would respond to pitches and brainstorming with people on the fly. And, it I just really came alive in that. I I just I could hear what people were trying to say, and I would be able to pull that out of them and help them turn it into a message of some degree. And whether it was, like, book worthy or article worthy or something, it it was still being able to hear what people were saying and turn it into something else. Stephanie Alton [00:12:15]:And so, from that, I started working more on proposals and then started taking my own pitches and representing my own clients. And then over the last couple of years, I’ve been really over the last year, have been doing publicity campaigns with Blithe as well. So it’s, like, it’s not only been it started so, so small and just little yeses all along the way, and coming up with different ideas and always just interacting with more people and listening to different stories. And, I’ve, in essence, kinda become a gatekeeper of, I I guess that’s what people call publishers and agents and, people on the publishing side as gatekeepers, like, letting the messages in. And I had this moment a couple of weeks ago at bible study. I was just taking notes, listening, and, I had this thought. I was like, like, I, years ago, would say that I always wanted to reach out and have a good connection with new believers and kinda help lead them to the gate. And I was like, in some degrees, a gatekeeper in my personal life and a gatekeeper in my professional life. Stephanie Alton [00:13:46]:And so, like, I’m thinking there’s gotta be something in there about the gate that I need to look into more, but I think that’s the the gist of, like, what where God’s moving professionally for me is just, sending me incredible people like you and others to interact with and work with in different degrees and, just maintain relationships, encourage people, help them amplify their messages, and, I guess, just keep showing up in different ways. So I I think in a nutshell is what I’ve been up to and what I do and how god led me there. Doris [00:14:32]:Wow. I love that so much. And first of all, I wanna say that it’s very encouraging that god can still take our sassy little attitudes and do something with it. Right? How many times have we, like, said, god, I can’t do this or what do you know, the the the the. Anyway, god, and, you know, god isn’t really interested in our insecurities. He’s interested in our willingness to go. You know, we see this with Moses and, you know, all the people in the bible that, like, what? Me? I can’t do this. And it’s like, well, of course, you can’t. Doris [00:15:03]:I’m gonna help you do this. And through me, you are able to do it. And Right. Sweet story that you, so I feel like too that God moves us where we’re meant to be. So, you know, I’m gonna move here because of my husband’s job, but that didn’t really pan out exactly as we would have thought it was supposed to, you know, living in this beautiful basement, but yet, you know, still struggling financially. And, you know, the whole thing with the open doors, but I love to kind of how you remind us that not to despise the small things as the word says. Yeah. You know, you just started by raising your hand and saying, okay. Doris [00:15:41]:You know, and that’s what God’s looking for. Like, you know, send me. Right? So, wow, that is so special. Stephanie Alton [00:15:48]:Well, just on a side note, my husband did get another job, and we did get our own house. And we we lived in a beautiful home in Colorado for many years, and then we recently well, it’s gone, like, three years now. We’ve lived in Texas down by the Gulf Of America now. And it it’s been a a lovely location to be in as well. Not as majestic, just majestic in a different way. So, he did go get another job, but, it it was just not what we expected. And it was just such a season of it being not what we expected. And the joke at the time was the weather was so unusual for Colorado. Stephanie Alton [00:16:30]:So even the weather was unexpected when we went there. So, like, all the small talk things were unexpected. So, yeah, I I and I see that now. Like, even in different events and ministry things. I think people are always waiting for someone to sheepishly face their hands and say, I’ll do it, even though that you have, like, this massive gut wrenching fear of uncertainty or feeling unworthy or not equipped or trained or whatever. So it’s I just I have an unusual background for publishing. I have an unusual story for publishing. Mhmm. Stephanie Alton [00:17:17]:I’ve done all the things wrong. I’ve done a lot of things right, but I I’ve I’ve done some things wrong. So Doris [00:17:25]:Yeah. Stephanie Alton [00:17:26]:It it’s owning your mistakes and adapting and moving forward. So Doris [00:17:32]:Yes. And learning. Yeah. And everything that we do wrong, we learn from. So I think we learn more from what we do wrong than what we do right, you know, I think in a in a way. Yeah. And and and to how it’s amazing how God equipped you along the way. Because sometimes women and some of our listeners might discount themselves as being able to do something because they haven’t gone to college for it specifically or they haven’t had any background or experience. Doris [00:18:01]:And God, you know, he is a God of on the job training. Would you say that, Stephanie? Right. Stephanie Alton [00:18:07]:Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m I’m living proof of that. I’ve always had a fascination with writing and have had some skill in that area. So it’s not a totally far stretched. It’s just, like, unbelievable that, like, something you dreamed of as a child comes to fruition. Mhmm. And it wasn’t necessarily in my own power. Stephanie Alton [00:18:33]:It was something that God ordained. And I I can’t deny that. It’s just so undeniable. There’s no way that Blythe had any idea that any of that was going on. There is no possible way that she knew that I prayed that prayer. Nor in that tone, there is no possible way I would have known what she was thinking on the other end. I mean, even if even if you looked back through the email records or whatever, there was no indication of what I was going through or thinking or wishing for and praying for, and there was no indication of what Blythe was needing on her side or what she was thinking about doing. That was just ultimately divine intervention. Doris [00:19:24]:Yeah. And and I just love how over and over and time and time again these things happen, and it’s there is no possible way it could be anything else but God. And like you said, she didn’t have any idea what was actually going on, but it didn’t matter about the details. It just matters about being obedient and saying, you know, and how she was like, I really feel like God is telling me to do this, and she did it. Yeah. And so Stephanie Alton [00:19:50]:Yeah. Yeah. That’s So we both had that sheepishly raising our hand thing. Like, she was like, this could be really weird. I understand if you don’t want to. And I was like, oh, we’ve got a movie. So, like, had, you know, neither one of us taken those unsure steps forward, we wouldn’t be where we are today. And so, that is one time I’m so grateful I I listened. Stephanie Alton [00:20:16]:I mean, not that, like, every other time that I’ve listened has it been rewarding to some degree, but I I feel like that is one of the most profound times that I listened and then something life changing came from it. Doris [00:20:31]:Yes. It’s powerful how we have these kind of milestone moments in our lives where we can pinpoint and we just don’t forget it. You know, it’s just something that we can always look back and see God’s faithfulness and, you know, how he actually sees us right where we are. You know, that he does know us personally, that he does see us, and that he does care about our situation and, you know, how he steps right in. And sometimes things happen quickly, like your experience with what? Like, you had just prayed that. I had a similar experience with her. And so she is just an amazing woman of God, and it’s just for her too that she was open to listening to what he had to, you know, tell her and to just step out like you said, and just that you both stepped out in faith and did this. And look what has come from it, the fruit that has come. Doris [00:21:21]:Because through you, Stephanie, I mean, you have all so many different clients. I know that you’ll send me you’ll send me pitches, for your clients about, you know, being on the show. And I’m always like, oh, yeah. That sounds like a great fit. And you just have this, like, natural instinct that God has given you to know what is a good idea or what is a good message. So when someone brings you a book proposal, it may not always look like what they think it should look like, but you pull things out of it. So what has been, like, some of your experience with that? How you can pull stories out and help them develop it? And like you said, help them with developing a message that they might not maybe it was a different direction that they even thought they were going. Stephanie Alton [00:22:07]:Well, this is probably another odd connection to that. But, naturally, I’m a person who likes to, like, sit in the back of the room so I could slip in unnoticed and leave without notice. But I think it’s because I’m always trying to read people. I’m looking at how the room’s responding. I’m looking at I’m just I’m I’m an analyzer of people, and I think I’ve always grown up that way. I’ve always just, like, walked in and read the room some, and, like, always been very aware of tone and messages and and stuff like that to some degree. And I just found that it it translated into, people’s writing. And sometimes when I meet with people one on one, I can do better listening and hearing what they’re trying to say sometimes better than what I can on paper. Stephanie Alton [00:23:05]:And sometimes I’ll see something really good on paper and wanna talk to someone. And I think it’s so that I can get that barrier down on them and then really hear it from them and get a good sense of who their audience is and who comes to them for what. You know, like, what is it that people are coming to them for? And I know I’m not the only agent that looks for that, but I just try to hear what somebody’s trying to say and get a sense of who their audience is to make sure that there’s a match. And then the third element would be is, like, how are they saying this differently than what than how it’s already been said? What are they doing different? And so I think it’s it’s a combination of, like, reading people, looking at their message, looking at their audience, looking at what’s already been done. And then I I think I’m always playing a little bit of a matchmaker. I’m thinking back, okay. Who told me they’re looking for what? Like and sometimes it’s a podcaster or, knowing who likes what. And then sometimes it’s a recent call with an editor or, somebody else. Stephanie Alton [00:24:17]:Maybe I know somebody looking for an article or a guest post or something on that topic, and then it’s like my brain’s like, oh, squirrel. This person needed this, and this person has this. Let’s see if we can do some matchmaking here. And so I think my brain always has, like, 37 tabs open or more, and it’s, like, running through all these different things. And then somehow AI is going on in there. And it’s like matchmaker. Matchmaker. Let’s connect them. Stephanie Alton [00:24:45]:And so I don’t know. There is no good way. There’s probably, like, a better formula for this, but just with the odd way my brain works and what I do. I I that seems to be my sign the the science behind what I do. Mhmm. And then, of course, there is you know, I’ve I’ve got to factor in who I’m already working with. So if I have a project similar to something that’s being presented to me, I I look at the person and I’m like, is everything they’re gonna turn out gonna be very similar to what I already have, or do I even know anybody who would take this on for anything? And so some of that also gets factored into it too. So there there’s no, like, straightforward answer on that, but that’s kinda how I get there. Doris [00:25:38]:Yeah. I love it. It reminds me of, you know, when you’re young and you play the memory game with the cards on the table, and they’re all kinda face down, so we really don’t know what’s under you know, what what the card is. And then you kinda flip them and go, oh, wait. I remember this card is over here in the right top corner. Stephanie Alton [00:25:56]:I’m really good at that game. Yeah. Doris [00:25:58]:I imagine. Stephanie Alton [00:25:59]:That’s interesting that you said that because I’m pretty good at that game. Yeah. And, whenever I would play, my boys had a game like that, I think, for car, when the movie Cars came out Mhmm. With Lightning McQueen and Mater. They had a little game set with all the little cars in there, and I would always win. But then I was like this I can’t I can’t be that kind of mom and just always, Doris [00:26:23]:you know, like, not Stephanie Alton [00:26:24]:let my kids win. So I I would try to help them too. So it felt like I was winning all the way around. Interesting that you say that. Like, connection point. I’ve always been good at that game. Doris [00:26:34]:Yes. Isn’t that funny? Because if we look back, you know, and those of us who can look back, you know, on our life and see, like, where has God actually really equipped us? Like, that we might not connect the dots when we think, oh, we’re not equipped or we can’t do that. But there are certain skill sets and certain gifts that he’s given us, you know, talents that we develop. I mean, there’s certain things that we wanna do, but we just really can’t, it’s not like our calling. It’s not really what we’re wired to do. So we can try and we can try and we can pray and God can help us do it, but it’s not maybe our wheelhouse. And when we find that sweet spot, it’s, like, so amazing. So what would you share with someone listening today who has thought, you know, I really would love to write, and I just don’t know where to start. Doris [00:27:26]:What what advice would you give someone listening today? Because this this I can’t say that. Statistically, someone listening today or several listening today will have thought about that. So what would you say, Stephanie? Stephanie Alton [00:27:40]:So if I was looking back to when I started out and things that I would do differently and then add that to what I I look for in a writer, I would honestly say some of the best ways to get started is by writing articles and setting up some sort of newsletter. I I say that because platform is a big piece of publishing. So if you want to pursue publishing, it’s really important to know what your message is and who your audience is. And some of the best ways to discover that is through consistent communication with a group of people, and it will start small and it will grow slow until you figure it out, and then something will click and then it will go much faster. And then the reason I suggest writing articles is because it will help you learn how to fit into guidelines. Each publishing plate, like magazine, local newspapers, Those are great places to start. Those local ones start small and build that relationship with them. Keep showing up for them because they’re gonna teach you how to meet deadlines, fit into a certain word count, and be able to learn how to take feedback. Stephanie Alton [00:29:16]:And they’re giving you feedback not to hurt your feelings. You get feedback to help you be a better writer and to fit into what they need. And so, that will also start building your platform as well. So you’ll have all those articles under your belt, and you’ll have a consistently growing newsletter under your belt. And if you think about it, you’re gonna spend all this time writing a book and getting it published, and you may not sell as many copies as you hope for, but you may reach more people with those articles that you’re sending out or those newsletters that you’re sending out because eventually, you’re gonna get to an outlet that distributes to thousands of people, and your message that day is gonna reach thousands of people. And who knows? Maybe one day your email newsletter list, email subscribers, we’re hoping for those to be in the thousands. And so over time, this message that you have within you is reaching so many people through these ways that are gonna help you get a book deal, but you’re you’re feeding people all this time and you’re learning your skill, you’re honing your craft, you’re defining your message and getting an understanding of how you can offer what’s in your heart to people in a way that they’ll receive it. So that I think for a beginner would be two of the best ways to start it. Stephanie Alton [00:31:00]:The rookie way to do it is to never publish anything, to attempt a book proposal, write this big book, and then it fits nothing. And then you feel devastated when you go try to take it to an agent, and they’re like, no. I’m sorry. And it’s not because they want to crush your dreams or your spirit or anything like that. It’s because the writing doesn’t fit into industry standards. And when they look at your platform, they see that it’s gonna be a challenge to sell a lot of books until you really get an understanding of how some of that works. And so starting small will help you grow bigger down the road. Doris [00:31:45]:Thank you. Such great advice. And, you know, how you talked about it helps kind of train you for learning how to write and, like you said, meeting deadlines and word counts and and actually honing in on the craft of writing because it’s a craft. And you can continually learn and grow in it. There’s opportunities for, you know, conferences. You know, if if someone is interested in meeting Stephanie, they can check out where she’s gonna be in different conferences for writers. It’s so important to attend those. But like Stephanie said, start small. Doris [00:32:21]:And I think that’s one of the themes that is coming out in this episode, and I think it’s gonna encourage a lot of people because we always wanna jump to the big step when we’re waiting. But the small steps add up to big steps, and we’re Yeah. Been entrusted, you know, with with, with gifts and things. And and God has even I mean, we have stories to tell. We all have a story, and we’ve been entrusted with with it. So, but I love that you have encouraged to write articles. And there there are so many publications that look for it. Where would you say, like, Publishers Weekly, or where is a good place that people can go and find opportunities? I mean, they just kinda come out on social media a lot of times too. Stephanie Alton [00:33:09]:Right. Yeah. It depends on your friend group on that too. I see a lot of opportunities through there, but that’s probably my friend connection being in the publishing industry. So I may see a little bit more of that than, others. I honestly think if it’s somebody just starting out or looking somebody looking to add something to their list, I would take a serious look at your free newspaper, the one that you find in the restaurants, the one that, may still get delivered for free, Whatever your local version of that is called, scope them out. See what kind of articles. Do a little bit of research and see what they talk about in those local papers. Stephanie Alton [00:34:01]:Mhmm. Because they’re always looking for somebody, and a lot of them will pay you, like, 13¢ a word, 12¢ a word, I think. And, usually, it would be a 500 to 2,000 word article. So it’s not a significant amount of money, but it it’s something. But don’t discard the free ones. Go with the free places. Guest blog on somebody’s site. Sometimes that’s a little more relaxed than a publication, but those local outlets are one of the best places to start. Stephanie Alton [00:34:35]:And your first article may not get picked up, but keep trying. If they give you any feedback, apply it to your next article or make a revision to that article and send it back to them if they will allow that. And I think searching through Google or whatever search drive you use, you’ll be able to pull up their their website or you may already know what their website is because it would be on that paper, and then look for the editor and submission guidelines and follow those directions. Mhmm. Because that will go a long way when you can submit something that they’re looking for. And I think something Blythe has taught me is that when we’re sending proposals to editors Mhmm. Our clients will sometimes be frustrated with us because we do so much back and forth before we will send it to an editor for consideration is we try to make the editor’s job as easy as possible. We wanna make sure that they have everything they need. Stephanie Alton [00:35:46]:Anything we can think of that they would think of, we wanna include that information. We wanna make sure that the writing is in their style. We we do a lot of thoughtful action steps to make sure that the editor’s job is as easy as possible to take the project and move on with it without having to do a whole lot of, work. And so if you go into submitting your article with that kind of mindset, making sure that your article is gonna need the least amount of revisions or the least amount of edits, and it fits the word count and their style and all their guidelines, you’re gonna make their job easier. And then the next time your article lands in their inbox, they’re gonna be like, yes. Let’s see what they’ve got going on even if it cuts in line of others because they know you’re gonna do a good job. So it’s hard to do a good job if you don’t know what they’re looking for. So take that time to make sure you figure out what it is that they’re looking for and then give it to them. Doris [00:36:50]:Yeah. Give it to them. That’s right. Yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah. And and two because there’s so many times that it’s so frustrating that maybe writers will submit something, and they have not read the submission guidelines. And so right away, it’s like, boop. Doris [00:37:06]:You know, it’s out. So to do your due diligence. But I love how you recommend looking for the free newspapers and the places that you can write. And even if you do it for free at first, and eventually, you might find, you know, that there’s places that will pay you for it. But also, it’s, you know, it’s building your literary resume and your building experience, which is which is really cool. And, you know, that’s what agents, and publishers look for as well. But, you know, there’s a lot of even secular publications that have a faith section, you know, something that they concentrate on, something faith based, you know, if they wanna promote something going on, like maybe churches in their area and things like that. So so, yeah, there’s so many opportunities. Doris [00:37:50]:And, yeah, this has been just such an enjoyable conversation. And I know that the listener has been encouraged because it really can apply to a lot of other areas in our life, not just writing and publishing. It, you know, just starting small. Starting small, stepping out in faith and obedience, and just trusting God to see what he does. Sometimes it’s like, next day happens where he answers a prayer, and sometimes it takes a little bit of a waiting. But I think you’ve shared just an incredible story of how God can really move when we pray and ask for that. So thank you. Is there anything else that you might want to share before we we close, something encouraging that you can say that, you know, might just be an impactful statement or something for somebody that’s listening right now? Stephanie Alton [00:38:45]:I would pay attention to what God is telling you because sometimes he tells you the same thing multiple times, and we ignore it. And oftentimes, some of the biggest blessings are in what it is that he’s telling you to do. Even if it feels a little bit uncomfortable, you have a thousand reasons to talk yourself out of it. It’s probably the thing that you’re gonna thrive the most in, especially if you’ve got that message multiple times. Like, I think there’s times we get a nudge and we just, move past it, and we don’t ever hear from God on it again. It’s the times when he is, like, nudging you multiple times. It’s like, okay. Let me let me consider it a little more. Stephanie Alton [00:39:39]:Let me take our first step and then and go into it. So, whatever it may be, whether it’s starting a new business or adding a a member to your family or doing something completely different than what you’ve done now, like, that will lead you in the right direction. We just have to be open to doing that and taking that first step. Doris [00:40:07]:Yes. That is so encouraging. And I know that someone listening today is it’s something that they really needed to hear. Because sometimes life can be so hard, and we just don’t see what’s happening. Like, there’s nothing happening and or maybe they just don’t have it feel like they have any direction, you know, what is my next step? And and we shouldn’t be anxious about anything as the word says, and to be anxious about what our next step is. But I love that advice you just gave. Be open and just pay attention to what God is telling you and how he’ll repeat it over and over in different ways through different people. And, you know, sometimes he just wants to hit us over the head with, oh, hello. Stephanie Alton [00:40:50]:Right. Right. Well and, you know, something I one last thing is, like, I think back to when my my boys were babies, and I just I loved absolutely loved being home with them and doing things with them. But I also felt a little bit disconnected from the world, which I was because I was in my home in rural Missouri, and there wasn’t a lot around me. And so, like, I felt a little bit lost to some degree. But all those times playing memory with my kids and doing different things, it wasn’t lost. It it’s being used in other ways and paying attention to what my children need maybe helped me pay attention to what others need now. And so, like, all of those things where we’re obedient in a season, even though we feel like, oh, this this isn’t all that I can be, but and maybe that’s the case, but it’s not all that you’re meant to be right now. Stephanie Alton [00:41:53]:And so, like, the time, I am so glad that I didn’t rush through anything with my kids because I never would have I’ll never be able to get that time back. And I think now as they’re much older, I would really feel lost if I would have thrown that time with them out the window and done for tried to force something else. And, so I’m glad that I was obedient and, enjoyed that blessing of being able to stay home with my kids because I know that’s something that not everybody gets to do. But as they’ve gotten older, my opportunities have expanded, and it it I don’t think that’s a coincidence. I think that’s God’s hand keeping me where I need to be and opening doors as they’re supposed to, but it also kinda coincides as I get freedom from my home responsibilities too. And I I see that there are so many other agents doing so much more than I’m doing and have way more clients than I have and do a million other things that I do. And I I just I think a couple years ago had a major moment, and it’s like, it’s not my time yet. Like, I am doing what I’m supposed to be. Stephanie Alton [00:43:15]:I’m my number one job is making sure that my boys turn out okay. And then I I’m also doing something that I very much enjoy, which is in publishing. And so it’s just that that it’s not really a balance. It’s juggling. But I I know that when my season of being a hands on mama is is done, then maybe I’ll be even more hands on with more clients and stuff. So I’ve just had to learn to say no to some things so that I can say yes to the right things. And sometimes my yeses are a little more leaning towards home life than professional life, and that that is just where I’m at right now. And I’m okay with that because I I don’t regret the time I’ve given to my family. Doris [00:44:07]:Yeah. Wow. That’s golden right there. Because how you kind of talked about that the the skills and the way that you parented and still parent your child, your children, your boys, your boy mom, it can actually be applicable to other things in your life, and it actually enhances your skills and things that you could do like listening and finding out what needs are and that kind of thing. And and the fact being that we we have different seasons in our life, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that seasons can’t overlap too, you know. Right. And so it’s kind of like Florida. I live in Florida, and, like, one day it could be, like, 30 degrees, and the next day it could be 80 degrees. Doris [00:44:49]:So it, like, it’s like winter and summer overlapping or something, or spring or whatever, and it’s not necessarily a cut and dry thing. So that’s really great because, there might be someone listening right now that feels like I am not walking in my purpose. But open your eyes, and as Stephanie has encouraged us to do, see where we are right at the moment and just live in that moment and just do, like, one step at a time. And God opens the doors in the right season and not to fall into the comparison trap because that Right. Yeah. You just covered that. So that’s such an important reminder that we’re all on different, roads, but all of our roads ultimately lead to Jesus, for our heart to, you know, share and, you know, whether it’s being, you know, a mom at home or out in the workforce or whatever we do that we glorify God and just share Jesus with the world and the love of of grace. So well, thank you so much for being on, and I would love if you would share how can the listener connect with you. Stephanie Alton [00:45:51]:Well, if you’re a writer, we do have a blog network. Well, it’s evolved into a blog and podcaster network called the Book Pod. So we do have a Facebook group that we’re in when we have opportunities open up, and we’ll send the only emails we send from there when we have opportunities available. So I would love to connect with you there. If you’ve ever had an interest in reviewing new release books or if you’re a podcaster looking for guests, we would love to have you, in our community and be part of that. I also go to play two, maybe three conferences a year, and that’s where I’m in the boat of I can’t do too much. And so I kinda keep it, to a few. I am sometimes on social media. Stephanie Alton [00:46:53]:If you remember, I am naturally in the back of the room, so I don’t generally put a lot out on social media. I just am a total hypocrite on that because because it’s such a key piece for, influencers to have, a presence there. And I just I’ve had a really hard time knowing, like, some of the hardships that some of the people in my feet are going through. And then we only tend to post the highlight reels, and I feel like it’s such a rub and then I’ve just had a significant internal conflict. Doris [00:47:30]:Mhmm. Stephanie Alton [00:47:31]:And I’ve done nothing. And so that’s probably I know it’s something I have to work on, but, so I am on Instagram sometimes. Doris [00:47:40]:Okay. Well, thank you for being honest about that because I think a lot of us feel that same way. And there’s times where we we post and not post or whatever. And so I I thank you so much for just being humble about that and to really share your heart on that. And so great. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. And if you are listening today, we are so thankful that you were here. And we know that God had something for you in this episode that you were meant to hear today. Doris [00:48:06]:And I’ll have all the links in the show notes and the information that we talked about. And, Stephanie, I hope to have you back on the show sometime. Stephanie Alton [00:48:15]:I’d love that. Maybe I’ll come back when you celebrate 300 episodes. Doris [00:48:19]:Awesome. Yeah. Stephanie Alton [00:48:20]:Yeah. Because you just had you just had your two hundredth episode or released your two hundredth episode. You’re probably well into the two hundreds now. So Doris [00:48:30]:Yeah. Stephanie Alton [00:48:30]:Come back and celebrate with you. Doris [00:48:33]:That sounds amazing and prophetic, no haha. Now I guess I’m gonna do 300 then. Yes. You are. Yes. Stephanie Alton [00:48:39]:You are. Okay. I believe it. Doris [00:48:40]:Thank you. Thank you so much. Alright, friends. Well, thank you so much again for joining us today on Fierce Calling, and we hope that, you know, this really blessed you. And if it did, we would love if you would share it. And, yeah, and if you would rate and review Fierce Calling, it will help others find the show. And, Stephanie, I look forward to talking with you more and looking forward to also some of the other great guests that you’re gonna send me because it’s just always amazing. And so, Fran, thank you so much. Doris [00:49:07]:God bless you, and we will talk soon. Stephanie Alton [00:49:09]:You’re welcome. Thank you.

Welcome back to another uplifting episode of Fierce Calling! I’m your host, Doris Swift, and today we have a special guest joining us—Amanda Schaefer. Amanda is an inspiring author, speaker, and host of the popular podcast “A Cup of Gratitude.” In this episode, Amanda shares her incredible transformation journey through faith, joy, and gratitude. From encountering Jesus in her home in a powerful way, to using her podcast to spread the gospel during the pandemic, Amanda’s story highlights the power of choosing gratitude and finding joy even in difficult times. Amanda shares about the difficult seasons of two divorces, but don’t miss the praise story of what God did to redeem it all. We dive into her upcoming book, which is set to encourage readers to explore their own stories and discover God at work in every chapter of their lives. Join us for a heartfelt conversation filled with insight, encouragement, and the reminder that our past story is part of our grace story. Stay tuned for an episode that will inspire you to take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Episode Highlights 06:03 Gratitude and Opportunity Beyond Borders 10:56 Testimony: Sharing Stories of Faith 12:29 “Connecting Through Shared Stories” 16:11 “Discovering God’s Purpose in Stories” 19:48 Divine Guidance in Marriage Choices 24:37 Seeking God’s Guidance 26:40 “Journey of Faith and Renewal” 31:01 Journey to Healing and Faith 33:40 Amanda’s Inspiring Show Highlights Connect with Amanda! You can connect with Amanda at acupofgratitude.org where you’ll find her podcast, blog, and all her social media links! Amanda Schaefer is a podcast host, author, and speaker. She carries with her the goodness of looking through a lens of gratitude. The “A Cup of Gratitude” podcast is global, reaching over 112 countries and 3000 cities. As a speaker, Amanda teaches the Bible while challenging audiences to live the way God intends. She has a way of making scripture come alive through everyday examples.  Amanda’s books include, “Crumbled, A Place for Broken People” and “Daily “Instaration.” She is a contributing author of “Life Changing Stories and the newly released books, “One Chance, One Dance, Don’t Miss the Moments in Your Life,” and “Courageous Voices Unlocked.” Her books are down to earth and packed with Biblical truth. Amanda has also written articles for “The Brave Women Series,” “The Uncommon Normal Gratitude Series,” “The Love Offering,” “The Warrior Women Series,” “Butterfly Living, “The Empty Nest Mom Series,” and “The Season Series.” She is under contract to write a new manuscript slated to be released in April 2025. Connect with Amanda at www.acupofgratitude.org or on Social media  www.instagram.com/acupof_gratitude www.facebook.com/amanda.f.schaefer www.acupofgratitude.org https://youtube.com/@acupofgratitude?si=PF55x6T4ecrs7jdg What Threatens to Steal Your Joy? Check out Surrender the Joy Stealers: Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You 6-week Bible study rooted in John 15. You can find more info at https://dorisswift.com/book/ Let’s Stay Connected! Find my free resources including Fear Fighting Bible Verses, Simple Tips for Sharing Your Faith, Surrender the Joy Stealers, Step Out of Your Doubt and Into Your Calling ebook, and more on my dorisswift.com homepage! Love Fierce Calling? Did you know that following, rating, and leaving a review over at Podchaser or Apple Podcasts helps others discover the show too? I would so appreciate it, friend! Need a Speaker for Your Next Women’s Event? Now Booking for 2025 & 2026! Check out my speaking page, grab my flyer, and let’s talk about me speaking at your next women’s event… Thanks for Listening! I hope this episode with Nancy encouraged, inspired, and challenged you to cultivate community, live and walk in the value and worth God gave you, and take action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. You’ll find links in the show notes to connect with Nancy and with me. If you’re looking for a speaker for your next women’s conference, retreat, luncheon, or workshop, reach out and connect with me on my speaker page at https://www.womenspeakers.com/florida/edgewater/speaker/doris-swift Let’s have a chat about your 2025 event! Stay tuned for more amazing content and remember to check the show notes for all the links mentioned. Thank you for being a part of our community. We are grateful for your continued support and encourage you to embrace the unique gifts that make you magnificently you. I hope you’ll join me next time when I talk with another woman who is taking action where her passion, compassion, and conviction intersect … Until then friend, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon. With love and joy, Doris P.S. Don’t forget to follow us on social media for bite-sized wisdom and inspiration from Doris and our incredible guests! 📲 Check out my home page for free resources! Transcript Doris:What is threatening to steal your joy? What is it that feels so heavy right now that you could barely stand? God has a plan, and his plan is to surrender it. Surrender it to him. It might be a prodigal. It might be a relationship, a marriage, something with your job. So many things. We have so many amazing blessings, but there are so many things in our life that threaten to steal our joy. I’m Dora Swift, author of the award winning six week Bible study, surrender the joy stealers rediscover the Jesus joy in you and it helps women rediscover the overflowing ever present Jesus joy within that fills, empowers, and ripens the fruit that God produces in our lives. Using personal and biblical stories, I share how you can identify your joy stealers, surrender them to god reawaken the joy within and share the joy with others you can do it on your own or with a group if you’re looking for a bible study check it out friends Surrender the Joy Stealers. Doris:Rediscover the Jesus Joy in You. It’s available on all the online retailers. It’s time to take your joy back. Welcome back to the show. Today, I’m very excited to welcome my friend, Amanda Schafer. She is an author, a speaker, and she is host of a popular podcast called A Cup of Gratitude. And she encourages and invites us to see things through the lens of gratitude, which I love that. And we’re gonna talk a little bit more about that in the show. Doris:But, yeah, she’s amazing. So you listen to podcasts, so be sure to go check that out. And I’ll have the link in the show notes, of course. And we’re just happy to get into this conversation and excited to see where God’s gonna lead us. So welcome to the show, Amanda. So great to have you. Amanda Schaefer:Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to to talk with you. We have followed each other on social media for a really long time, so I’m gonna have to have you back on my podcast as well. I’m very glad to have this conversation with you. Doris:I’m looking forward to that as well. And, yeah, we love how God connects us. And so this episode is very special, and I just can’t wait to hear, like, how God is gonna lead you and to share. So I would love if you would share a little bit about your story and how you are taking action where your passion, compassion, and conviction intersect? Amanda Schaefer:Well, how am I not at this point? So I’m 60, and I only came to Christ twenty three years ago. So I had quite a lot of past and quite a lot of trauma that, I needed to work through, but I can’t believe what God is doing in my life right now and and and that I get to share the gospel all over the world in so many different ways. So I started off with a lot of healing to do. I met Jesus not in church, but in my home, and I have been on fire for God ever since. I cannot get enough of the word. I cannot get enough of his presence. I can’t spend enough time in worship, and so he’s really transformed my heart. I’m able to connect with a lot of people who don’t know him because I spent more of my life not knowing him than knowing him. Amanda Schaefer:And so, he uses me a lot in these everyday moments where I look around and I am able to choose to look for the good in bad situations. It’s actually discipline, gratitude, you know, looking for the good. And the way that God created our our brains, he actually created a neural network that the more that you choose something, the easier it is to get there. It kind of creates a roadway. So it goes both ways. Unfortunately, conversely, if you think bad things or look for things anxiously or fearfully. But when you look for the good that is still there even in the midst of difficulty, you will find it, and then you’ll become expectant for more. And so that is really how he’s been using me is to remind people. Amanda Schaefer:I started my podcast during the pandemic after moving to care for my parents, in a into a sixteen hundreds farmhouse in the middle of nowhere and started podcasting from a closet because I was cut off and still wanted to share the gospel. And so he’s used my ability to look around and see his goodness and everything to connect to people and bring them hope. Doris:I love that. I mean, we could probably just end the show right now. I don’t want to. We’re not going to, but that was amazing. And I and I love how you talk about gratitude and what God did in your life, you know, even though you were feeling like you might have been isolated from where you used to live and maybe getting into more community outside of your home, he gave you an avenue to reach countries that you never would probably have had the opportunity to visit, and, you know, people are listening Yeah. To you because of that. And I love how on your show, you do say, that you’re not talking about whether your cup is half empty or half full. We hear that a lot, but it’s what’s in your cup. Doris:Right? Amanda Schaefer:Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, it’s an intentional thing. It really is. We have to choose it. And I love that God has always given us choice about everything from the beginning. You know, he allows us to choose whether we choose him or not, whether we choose to look and see the good or not. And a lot of times, people get stuck in the muck and the mire of really difficult situations, and no one’s making light of those. Amanda Schaefer:And I’ve been through a lot of traumatic things. But when we learn how to look above the wind and the waves and we can look right at Jesus, it changes everything. Doris:And I you know, we were talking earlier about you met Jesus at home. Can you elaborate a little bit about what that looked like? Like, how did that happen in your life? Amanda Schaefer:Well, to try to consolidate, it’s a difficult experience to consolidate, as much as possible. I did not go to church after I left my parents’ home. I never had a real connection to God at all. As a matter of fact, I kind of made fun of Christians, and and people that felt like they needed Christianity. I was pretty much placating myself with everything that you could think of and and very much an anxious and depressed person, pretty much the opposite now. I was very quiet, very insular. And, but I had convinced myself that I was a good person. I I was nice and I was kind. Amanda Schaefer:And this one particular moment and I’m sure God had been trying to reach me and I’ve been pursuing me the entire time, but I finally opened up to his presence. This one particular moment, I had a thought. And I think it’s the same thought I had had before other times that I might have convinced myself was good. And in that moment, I actually shifted perspectives, and I saw that it was very selfish. It was very unkind, and it and it was not a good thought. And in that moment, I suddenly agreed with God. I agreed. And all the years I had gone to church and not really paid attention, all those seeds were in there. Amanda Schaefer:And I I think they started growing roots and started shooting up. So, I was in this place when I agreed with god that I was not good. Suddenly, I felt like I was in this deep dark pit that I was looking around. If you saw it on a on a movie screen, I’m looking around, and I realized how cut off and lost I was. And as I’m looking up, I see light at the top. I’m in this utter darkness. I see Jesus, his face coming over from the light, and he came down, and he brought me up, and he set me down solidly next to him. And and what I’ll never forget is he did not speak. Amanda Schaefer:He did not need to. He put his arm around me, and we walked together. And I felt like in that moment, everything changed. I knew everything I had heard about was real. He did talk to me after that. But in that moment, all he did was show me and express his fullness of love. I felt connected. I felt in for the first time, I think I felt, like, in who I was supposed to be. Amanda Schaefer:It was fully me. That makes sense. It’s really hard to describe. Doris:No. That was actually described very beautifully, and you could feel the transformation in yourself. And the first realization was coming to, like, wow. I do need a savior. I I’m not as good as I thought. You know? Because there are so many that believe that, you know, well, I’m a good person. You know? I didn’t I didn’t kill anybody or, you know, whatever. And, but not yet realizing that they need a savior. Doris:And so Mhmm. Our voices and our testimonies are so important. It’s like, you know, because we overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. And and so I I really love that you shared that with us because I know that someone listening may have experienced something similar, or maybe they feel like they’re in a dark place right now, and they just happen to, you know, think they happen to come upon this conversation. But, really, you know, nothing really happens by accident. So Amanda Schaefer:It doesn’t. And I love that you just used the scripture, from Revelation because, as I spent time with God, I have really become someone who’s focused on helping everyone I can share their story because I think they’re so important. And and I remember reading that very scripture in revelation for the first time, and I felt like God said to me, Amanda, people were will they listen to your story? Because I said to him, why are they, parallel? Why is not the blood of the lamb way up here and the word of my testimony way down here? That that didn’t seem right. And he said, because people that won’t go to church and won’t read the Bible, they’ll listen to your story, and so I pour the blood of the lamb through the word of your testimony. And that’s what he does with each one of us. And so we’re walking around. We’re the aroma of Christ in the world. We’re walking around, and we’re his ambassadors. Amanda Schaefer:And so when we’re willing to share the whole story, see, that’s the thing. Sharing things like I just shared or sharing other things like I’m about to share in my newest book that are very much not Christian and seeing where god came in and worked and where he was, that’s how people can really believe maybe it’s for me too. If they see someone like you, right, they say, oh, Doris is she’s written a book. She has a podcast. She’s a speaker. She’s doing all these things. She’s so accomplished. I can’t ever do that. Amanda Schaefer:I’m not good enough. I can’t get there. But that’s how people see. But when you were willing to say, no. No. No. Let’s look at everything. Here’s my other stuff. Amanda Schaefer:People are able to open up to the fact that they might be able to get where God wants them to go as well. Doris:That’s so very sweet how you described your experience with that scripture and how you kind of looked at it like, wait a second. You know, this and it’s good for us to question things, you know, and seek the Lord for the answers for that. And just sharing our stories because we’re connected by our stories, and there are so many similarities and common threads in our lives that people can feel connected. I mean, not everybody’s story, of course, is the same, but, you know, not everybody experiences trauma or grief the same. But we can come together in unity as a community and encourage one another, lift each other up. That’s why I love that scripture in first Thessalonians because of, you know, that being so important. And, you know, I always like to say that our our past story doesn’t discredit our grace story. It becomes part of it. Doris:And so it is so important Yeah. To throw off the shame and share. Right? Amanda Schaefer:Yeah. I also believe that they’re different on purpose. Okay? Just like each one of us is made and created uniquely, then god deposited certain passions and talents in us. The things that have happened to us, even though he didn’t want, you you know, a lot of those negative things to happen, we live in a fallen world, and so they’ve happened. But he works it all together, and he uses it to reach different people. So you’re gonna reach people I won’t. I’m gonna reach people you won’t. And I always liken it to this. Amanda Schaefer:I feel like our stories are like a net that God is trying to cast over the world, and there are people who aren’t sharing. And so there’s holes in the net. Our story is how we go into all the world. It’s how we go. And so I’m always just trying to get more and more people willing to share. Your story is important. You know, it’s it’s different. It’s unique. Amanda Schaefer:It has people to reach. Doris:Yeah. I love that visualization you just gave us with the net because you feel like, okay. So when you think about this story about Jesus saying, alright. Cast the net again, and they’re like, well, we’ve been fishing, haven’t caught, and bought okay, Jesus. And then, like, the net was like, there was just so many fish in the net. You know, there you couldn’t see the holes anymore, so it was overflowing. So I love that, how you how you kind of likened it to a net, for our story. And you’ve written many stories. Doris:You’re not only a podcast host and, of course, first and foremost, a child of God and, beautiful sister in Christ, but, also, you have the gift to write, and you’ve written for a lot of different publications, and you’ve written books, you’ve contributed to books. Now this newest book that’s coming out, could you share a little bit about what drove you to write this and what is kind of a little synopsis of what the reader will find or get from this book that you’re writing? Amanda Schaefer:Sure. I’m excited about this because it wasn’t my idea. So I know it was a god idea, so it’s a good idea. Right? So I was very busy. I was working on the podcast. I take care of like I said, I, take care of my parents. My mom mom has now passed, but I still have my dad with me who’s 94. I have all kinds of obligations. Amanda Schaefer:And so I was already working on some contributing author pieces, and I heard God say put everything aside. And I thought, okay. This is why I have prerecorded episodes and podcasts, by the way. So I I sat and I listened. And after a little while, what I felt like he was asking me to do is he said, I love what you’ve been doing for four years. I love all the stories that you’ve shared. Now that’s not enough. We need to reach more people, and we need to get more people to look at their childhood up until now and see the places where I was working, the places where maybe they thought it was silent or it wasn’t there. Amanda Schaefer:I want them to see the plans and the purposes I have for them and the way that I’m working in their lives, and I want them to be encouraged and I want them to share. So the book is really an overflow of the podcast. I, the first half of of the book is explaining why story is so important to god, why he’s given it to us, and then I share from my childhood up until right now some very difficult stories to showcase where god came in and worked and moved and and changed me and transformed things. And then the second half of the book is an interactive journal, which is, pivotal questions that have come from all of my experience of helping people share their story from the beginning until the present, to kind of give, like, a podcast prerecording call to all the people who pick it up and read it, to get them to spend time with God and to be able to see God and hear God in all of the parts of their story they might not have looked at. And when you think about it, how often do you go back and look at your whole story? And there is a treasure trove. There are blessings. There are so many jewels and nuggets in there that we have missed because we’re so present in the moment that we’re not seeing what God was doing. And so, I’m very excited to be able to share that because I also think it’s something that I wanna go around and and and speak about a little bit in the future as well, just to try and get more people out there sharing and get some of those net holes Doris:picked up. Wow. That sounds like a fantastic book, and I love that it kind of has a a purpose and a plan through it. And then that it’s also an interactive journal because then it will encourage people to take action, take some kind of action, which I love with, you know, the fierce calling, taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. And so I think that’s fantastic. So, could you share maybe a little bit about something in your past that you had struggled with and how, you know, this now is becoming part of your story that you share? Amanda Schaefer:Sure. Where do I start? There’s so many things to pick from. I guess what’s coming to mind is the fact that I’m currently not married. I’ve been divorced twice. God did two different things, in both of those instances. So I got married not knowing Jesus, not knowing God, not knowing about covenant, not asking his opinion about who I married, none of those good things. And, I I divorced my first husband, and, god actually redeemed that whole thing. When I came to Christ, we ended up inviting them to our church. Amanda Schaefer:I ended up mentoring my ex husband’s wife. They all came to Jesus. They all got baptized. It’s a whole a whole podcast. Oh. So God absolutely redeemed all of that. He had me praying for them, and he really changed my heart, and it was just an amazing experience. And, you know, all going to the same church, it was really beautiful. Amanda Schaefer:People would see us laughing and hugging each other, and, you know, find out who we were to each other before we went on a mission trip together. Just lots of good stuff. Unfortunately, I came to Jesus. You know, he encountered me, as I said, in my home, about a week before the rest of my second marriage fell apart. So god brought me to himself, and about a week later, my second husband started showing signs of having bipolar disorder. He started self medicating, and he became a fairly horrible alcoholic. So god gave me himself to go to during that time. The difference in that story is that I knew about god’s covenant. Amanda Schaefer:I knew what marriage was at that point. I still hadn’t asked god, you know, who I was supposed to marry, but, you know, and so, eventually, I did get separated, and I felt like I knew that was biblical. I knew it was unhealthy. And at one point, god released me to get divorced, and he showed me that, you know, my husband had left the marriage, you know, quite a long time ago, and wasn’t willing to try to get into recovery, wasn’t willing to try to keep any of the boundaries that my my kids and I gave him. So, they’re just two different parts of my story that I came to mind because they kind of are are different sides of the coin. God was working in both situations, but it was up to the other people whether they accepted him or the changes in me because of him. So on one hand, god made this beautiful transformation and redemption and and and and brought this family into one thing. And on the other hand, he taught us that sometimes we lose people that we love because they are not willing to take the steps to allow him in. Doris:Uh-huh. Wow. That is really powerful. And that, you know, from the first marriage, what happened with all of that and the fact that it you know, not only your lives were all transformed, but the people around you seeing things that don’t make sense to the world. You know? That’s what that’s what we’re all about. You know? It’s like when you were kinda talking in the beginning that you even you walked away from the church, you even mock Christianity and all of that, and it just reminded me of Paul’s story, you know, and how he persecuted the Christians, and then, wow, look at his story. But he didn’t never say he was perfect either. You know? He said, I do what I don’t wanna do, and I don’t do what I, you know, wanna do or should do, whatever. Doris:And so, you know, but yet, god is so gracious and merciful and, you know, so beautiful, and he is at work, but also how you talk about choosing it. So a cup of gratitude, where did how did that come out for your podcast? Amanda Schaefer:I was about a year into the pandemic, caring for my parents. Couldn’t go to church, couldn’t see other family members because I was you know, we didn’t have a vaccine yet, and I was with elderly people. And so I was very cut off. And in Christ, I am very outgoing, very kind of a vivacious person, and so I was feeling really feeling it. And that’s when I cried out to God and said, hey. I I will do what you asked me to do, as long as you want, but I still wanna share the gospel. I miss sharing the gospel. And, you know, I had bought a microphone and and converted a closet into a podcast booth, and I had started. Amanda Schaefer:But when I started, I said, god, this is your podcast. I wanna know what you want me to do, how you want me to do it. So I spent a lot of time journaling before I did the very first episode. And these are the things that I felt God asked me to do. Show people that there’s good. Show them how to be grateful even in bad times. Show whole stories. Start at the beginning and keep going up until now so you can see me working in every story. Amanda Schaefer:And that’s the one thing I have this side, ministry that started where people who don’t go to church, don’t read the bible, are contacting me because they’re they’re listening because the stories are are interesting, and they’re realizing that everybody’s story is different. Some people love God, some people didn’t. Some people knew him, some people didn’t. But they’re noticing that God was always the same. And so the only thing I asked God to do, I said, I don’t know enough people to do this. You have to bring them to me. Well, my gosh. I’m four years in. Amanda Schaefer:I have a whole month already recorded, and I’m booked out until the February. He just bringing them. But the number one thing is I think he wanted our story to hold his story, and he wanted people to know that when they looked for him, they would find him, and they would find hope and goodness. Doris:Wow. Well and what’s so fantastic about what you just said is that people, even those who aren’t yet believers and haven’t yet discovered or met Jesus personally, can see how the stories are different, but yet God’s the same yesterday, today, and forever. So, you know, it’s like, wait a second. You know, there there is something constant here that I’m missing from my life. I need something constant. I need an anchor. And so that’s what, you know, your show has been able to to give people, and I think that’s wonderful. And, you know, how God is just pouring out these stories and basically booking your show out so that, you know, he’s orchestrating all of the things, you know. Doris:So it’s divine. Amanda Schaefer:Yeah. I think when God, you know, says it in his word that he looks to and fro for someone you know? I think when he sees a heart that wants to know him, that will take the time, to sit down and and to be in his presence, that recognizes, oh my gosh. I why do I do what I don’t wanna do and do you know? You you you that has a recognition of their sin and brings it freely to him and then says, hey. What do you want to do today? You know, they’re the they’re the people he’s able to pick up and use and pour through because they’re following, you know, his lead, and he gets to be the one. It’s his story. Every story in history is his story. All of it. And he’s already been to the places we’re worried about going to, and he was with us in places that we didn’t see him. Amanda Schaefer:And so he is so excited when any of us want to be cleaned out and ready to be used. And so I see that in you as well, and I think it’s such an exciting thing. You know? I’ve heard people say that Christianity is boring. It’s like, you’re doing it wrong. Right. You’re just doing it wrong. It’s an adventure. It really is. Doris:It’s quite exciting. And and your excitement because you are vivacious, and it comes out in your videos and your message to people because it’s not about you know, we don’t make it about ourselves. It’s about Jesus. And so it it is an adventure with God because we never know what he’s gonna do. And there’s, you know, a lot of different, age groups that are, you know, are listening, but I love sharing the fact that the things that god has done in our lives are all so important. We can look back and see where he has been throughout the whole thing and how he’s been faithful and how, you know, things in our lives may not even change until I mean, as far as ministry wise till, like, we’re 50 or 60 or whatever, like, new adventures. It’s never Yeah. It’s never too late. Doris:So that’s the exciting thing too. Amanda Schaefer:I love that you said that because I’ve encountered a a few people recently who are experiencing that, and then that’s my life as well. It’s twenty three years since I accepted Jesus. It’s ten years since I’ve been kind of free and single, and he Jesus has been my husband, which he’s a very good husband, by the way. And it’s five years since I started writing books and getting opportunities and doing, you know, the podcast and all these different things. And it’s amazing to me to see how he works in these layers. You know? There was so much of old me that needed to, be healed and and needed to understand God’s ways and needed to succumb to those ways and submit to him, you know, before he could use me again. You know? But once once you’ve done those things, he picks you up and said, okay. Let’s go. Amanda Schaefer:And he goes with us. He it’s his work. The fact that he wants us to join him in his work blows me away because he doesn’t need us. He wants us. That’s very cool. Doris:Very cool that he wants us. He sees us. You know, he loves us, and we have value and worth in him. And and just the fact that it’s funny because sometimes people will have dreams for years of wanting to do something, and God brings it to fruition, you know, and gives us the delights of our hearts and just, you know, wants us to, follow in in the direction that he’s leading, because it looks so much better than what we could ever think or imagine. But, then he also brings us on adventures that we had no idea about, like, we had no clue. Yeah. You know? Like Amanda Schaefer:Yeah. Yeah. And they’re the best. Yeah. Like, I always say with that’s that’s what podcasting is. Now I always knew I loved writing, and I I always knew I loved telling stories. And I was always good one on one with people and or getting on a stage. I didn’t care about that. Amanda Schaefer:But podcasting is the best thing I never knew I wanted to do. I just love it so much. So what a gift. Doris:It is a gift. Yeah. And yeah. Because for years, I thought, I would wanna be on radio because I thought that was fun, and I like doing radio shows. But, God sent these two precious ladies into I was I was leading a bible study at church, and they just they joined the group, and they were so sweet. And they just, I think one of the ladies, she’s since been, you know, went to be with the Lord, but I wanna say she was in her seventies. And she was like, well, we did a radio show at that station, because I have a friend who has a radio station locally. And she’s like, but you had to go to the station to do the show. Doris:But then my son said, why don’t you do a podcast? And I’m like, okay. There’s that word again. You know? It just things just keep coming up Amanda Schaefer:Yeah. Doris:You know, when god wants you to do something. Amanda Schaefer:Yeah. Doris:Have you found that too, Amanda? Amanda Schaefer:I have. I have. I I the other thing I always say is I always feel like I’m doing exactly what God has for me. Uh-huh. And then he always has a new thing. So it’s exciting in that way too in that as you take steps in obedience and you do what you have no idea how to do, number one, it gives him glory because you didn’t know how to do it, but he did. But number two is, like, as you he knows you’re gonna be obedient, then he knows he can give you new things to do. Doris:Yeah. If you’re willing. Yeah. And like you said earlier, choosing and how choosing gratitude, choosing joy. Because Jesus gave us his joy. It’s in us that ours would be full. You know? We already we already have his joy. It’s supernatural. Doris:It’s a fruit of the spirit. It’s not something we have to manufacture, you know, or try to make ourselves or other people happy kinda thing. It’s different. And so, you know, we we have that. So choosing those things and how earlier you were talking about, you know, it actually changes our heart, but also it changes the pathways in our brain. You know? And so it and, you know, and you and you were saying earlier how when you didn’t know Jesus and you kind of walked away from church and, you know, Christianity, the whole Christianity thing, and then you just you you felt like you’re a good person and everything was, you know Mhmm. Just okay, but you didn’t you had an emptiness. There was something missing. Amanda Schaefer:Oh, yeah. Doris:And then you found it. Amanda Schaefer:Oh, I knew I I remember thinking to myself literally, there has to be more Doris:than this. Yeah. What’s new? Amanda Schaefer:There has to be more than this. And I was chasing every other kinda high that there was, number one, because I hadn’t worked through all my trauma yet, and so I was trying to not deal with that. I did eventually go to therapy, and, also, the holy spirit came along and is a wonderful counselor. But, I I just didn’t feel complete, and you don’t realize what’s missing until you get it. And it’s so hard because we try we try to convey that to people without hitting them over the head or or appearing to be, you know, pushy, but they you don’t get it till you get it. And I always say it’s like that one big step of faith, but after that, every other step is just affirmation that you made the right step the first time. Doris:That’s very encouraging. That’s really gonna encourage someone listening right now, to just step out. Sometimes we have to just step out of our doubt and step out in faith and just allow God to lead us because, like you said, he already knows where we’re going, and he already he’s been there, and he’s, you know, with us. And so I think that’s amazing. And so when when is the book going to release? Or Amanda Schaefer:Well, I just had a production meeting, with the publisher, and we’re looking at the April 2025. So we’re we’re in line edits. We’re in Doris:line with it. Alright. So coming soon. That’s exciting. And this has been just an amazing conversation. And I’m so thankful for you and grateful to have you on the show. And I would just encourage the listener to reach out and listen to your show, follow it, subscribe to your channel. And if you could share how the listener can connect with you and if there’s any last thing that you might wanna share to encourage someone today. Amanda Schaefer:Alright. Well, you can find me just about anywhere because god said go all those places, and I went. Even though as an older lady, I was not so sure about TikTok or YouTube, but I’m there. I would just say if you went to my website, which I’m sure you’ll put in the show notes, it’s a cup of gratitude Org. You can find your way to everything that I’m doing there. And the last thing I would just wanna say is, like, thank you. Thanks for having me come on. Thanks for the opportunity. Amanda Schaefer:I loved our conversation. These conversations with sisters and brothers in Christ, they’re just so encouraging. They fill me up, and they help me you know, I call my bedroom office my braffice, and I have been busy in my bra office today. So I feel very, filled up and ready to pour out some more. So thank you for all you’re doing. I really appreciate you. Doris:Thank you. It it’s been fun and joyful, and it’s been a pleasure having you on. And, friends, don’t forget to check out the show notes so that you can find Amanda and reach out to her. She’d love to hear from you, and subscribe and listen to her show. And just be encouraged. And I I know what Amanda shared today really encouraged, challenged, and inspired you to take some kind of action today no matter what and reach out to god because, like, she has shared in the show, he is waiting. He is knocking at the door of our hearts, and he wants to come in. But he is a gentleman and he won’t force himself on anyone. Doris:It’s a choice. And and when we choose him, it’s life changing and life giving, and it you will never be the same. So friends, I hope you’ll join me next time. And, we’ll talk with another guest who’s taking action where their passion, compassion, and conviction intersect. Until then, friends, have a blessed week, and I’ll talk to you soon.