Forking Off

Elizabeth Ginexi served as a scientific program official at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) for 22 years. During that time, she stewarded taxpayer investments in biomedical and behavioral research. An applied social psychologist by training, Liz's work spanned historic public health initiatives, from building the scientific framework for FDA tobacco regulations to developing non-pharmacological pain treatments for veterans.When the administration began dismantling NIH, Liz took an early retirement rather than comply with antiscientific directives. She's since become a fierce advocate for the Addiction Science Defense Network and scientists everywhere. She's put her analytic talents to work on Substack by writing about the internal collapse of the world's premier biomedical research agency.Highlights & Topics:Liz's Story: Hear Liz’s firsthand account of the coordinated communication freezes, grant cancellations, and assault on career scientists.Near-Term Risk: How the loss of nearly 5,000 NIH employees and the slashing of funding opportunities will gut an industry that generates billions for the U.S. economy.Long-Term Threat: Why the true cost of abandoning biomedical research won’t be visible until future generations lack critical treatments and cures.Call for Advocacy: Why scientists must embrace activism, and how the public and private sectors can step in to sustain U.S. innovation.Additional Resources:Stand Up for Science: Stand Up For Science is a political activism organization dedicated to defending and advancing America’s scientific ecosystem, a cornerstone of democracy, freedom, and progress.Union of Concerned Scientists: The Union of Concerned Scientists puts rigorous, independent science into action, developing solutions and advocating for a healthy, safe, and just future.Learn more about this episode on our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠⁠⁠Ko-fi⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠follow us⁠⁠⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the NIH, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Dan Tully left the U.S. Department of Commerce in protest of the administration's destructive foreign policy approach. Dan's background as a Judge Advocate in the Army Reserve gave him experience advising on counter-Chinese influence efforts in the Indo-Pacific. While Dan was building an anti-corruption program for Ukraine's Ministry of Reconstruction, the administration abandoned critical partnerships, echoed Kremlin talking points, and berated Ukraine's President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy in the White House. Dan is now running for the U.S. House of Representatives in Chicago, Illinois, where he hopes to implement his Trump Accountability Plan and restore the rule of law by wielding Congress's power of inherent contempt and puncturing sovereign immunity for federal agents acting outside the scope of the law. As we approach the midterm elections, the election conspiracies of 2020 and 2024 are making a comeback alongside threats of voter suppression and intimidation from the White House and MAGA-sphere. In this episode, we cut through the noise of election conspiracies. We discuss how same-day voter registration led to false claims of "more votes than voters" during the 2024 elections. We also explain how a voter fraud prevention tool led to false claims of one state having "more registered voters than voting-age population."We round out our examination of election fraud conspiracies by explaining why the Election Truth Alliance's conspiracy theories masked as statistical analysis did not prove voter fraud in the 2024 presidential race. We discuss how misinterpreting academic research and ignoring important methodological distinctions to justify demands for hand counts doesn't begin to address the actual threats voters could face at the polls in 2026, such as the weaponization of federal law enforcement as recently seen in Fulton County, Georgia.As the executive branch tramples constitutional boundaries in an effort to centralize power, we discuss the constitutional remedies available to Congress, the States, and the People, as well as legislative proposals that would further strengthen checks on executive power, including the Bivens Act, the Universal Constitutional Remedies Act, and inherent contempt.Finally, we discuss historical precedents that allowed the States to regulate federal law enforcement activity within their borders. We highlight how first principles such as federalism and separation of powers create a system of governance designed to protect the rights of the people. We recently saw this system in action when the Supreme Court ruled on Learning Resources, Inc. v. Trump in a 6-3 decision to reject the President's unilateral imposition of tariffs, which are reserved for the contemplative processes of the legislature.Read about Dan's platform on his website or connect with him on LinkedIn.Learn more about this episode on our website.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠Ko-fi⁠, and ⁠follow us⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the Department of Commerce, the Army Reserve, the United States, or any past or current employers.

What the fork!? It's only been a year? This feels more like a post-mortem on the American Experiment than a year-end review. Yes, we're celebrating the fact that we survived an entire year of the second Trump administration's assault on democracy, but we're also bracing for the next three. Last year, we watched as USAID was decimated; domestic terrorists were pardoned; and truth was flipped on its head. This year, we're getting civically fit while embracing the reality that nobody is coming to save us. It's time to wake up, shake off our bias, weigh the facts, challenge authority, resist conformity, and demand accountability. It's time to go forth and do great things.We're not just doing pep talks though. We're sharing tools that everyone can use to navigate this new information environment and build more resilient institutions. Let's start by putting a label on what's really been happening to American society for the last year. The term that came to define Germany in the 1930s, Gleichshaltung loosely translates to synchronization or coordination, but the English language does little to capture it's ambition. Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels' vision was synchronization "to the point where the whole nation will think in unison and there will be only one public opinion."It sounds alarmist to describe 2025 with such similarity to German Nazification, but the parallels are undeniable. The reservation comes from the first bias we must address, if we wish to remain a free society. Normalcy bias is often described as a cognitive bias that manifests as a tendency to underestimate the possibility of disaster, believing life will continue as normal, even in the face of overwhelming threats. Let's say it together. The threat is overwhelming. So, who's going to stop it?This leads us to our next bias. The Bystander Effect is a type of cognitive dissonance resulting from the diffusion of responsibility, wherein the more people who are present for an emergency the less likely any one is to intervene. We are seeing this play out across the globe. It's happening on the individual level when law enforcement officers ignore their duty to intervene in the presence of ICE's unchecked abuse of power. It's also happening at the global scale as governments struggle to address the rapid normative shift.Where do we start?The key to challenging the normalization of deviance is learning to spot deception. Even bad lies can greatly disrupt social norms. Identifying techniques to spot deception can make it easier to move forward with confidence. Let's look at a few.MOM: Does the individual have the Motive, Opportunity, and Means to deceive? POP: Is the deception consistent with Past Opposition Practices?MOSES: Is there a concern over the Manipulability of Sources? EVE: What can we learn from the Evaluation of Evidence? When we're told to believe a thing to be true while only being allowed a small subset of facts provided by an administration with a history of deceit, we must proceed with caution. If we can't rely on past sources of information, how can we build resilient institutions? We start by approaching the challenge from a different perspective called outside-in thinking. In addition to sharing the stories of those most closely affected by the administration's assault, we'll also be sharing more tips and practical examples of how we can all build resilience in the coming year. Learn more about this episode on our ⁠website⁠.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ko-fi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠follow us⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Growing up, I never considered working for the FBI. To me, the FBI was just special agents kicking in doors, arresting violent criminals, and putting themselves in harm's way. I wanted to help people, but let's face it: guns are scary, and I don't like running. As one of my high school best friends reminded me recently, I drove a pink car and wore bows in my hair. I was not what you think of when you think of FBI employees. In 2012, Philip joined the FBI. His first week on the job, he came home and told me about the Intelligence Analyst job. It was research, analysis, writing, briefing, and no guns or running. It was all the skills I learned as an attorney, but instead of applying those skills to divorces, contract disputes, and real estate deals, I could do something even bigger: protect our nation from terrorists, spies, and violent criminals. After four years of sequestration and hiring freezes, I joined the FBI in May 2016. The first six years, I worked counterterrorism matters, including a joint duty assignment as an FBI Liaison Officer at CIA's Counterterrorism Mission Center. In January of 2022, I became a Supervisory Intelligence Analyst in FBI's Los Angeles field office. I served as the intelligence coordinator for the Violent Crimes program and the Transnational Organized Crimes programs. The Violent Crimes program was not extremely intel-friendly, but I worked hard with my team to find ways to bring value to these programs and to the Intelligence Community. In January 2025, I was selected for a leadership position at our Headquarters in DC. With so much uncertainty and the rapid changes in the FBI's mission and priorities, I chose not to put my family through a cross-country move for a job that might not exist in DC in the near-future. The first half of 2025 was difficult. Going to work every day brought internal turmoil. I was put in charge of projects that I did not believe were morally and ethically sound. My moral compass was spinning. The projects were not what was being presented to the American people. We were not going after the "worst of the worst" or the most heinous criminals. At one point, I was asked to cross the red line.I refused. I was told I could get fired today or fired in four years—meaning I could get fired today for refusing to violate my oath, or I could get fired in four years when another administration is in office and looking at who participated in these violations. I said "Fire me today."They didn't.Instead, my squad was taken away from me. I was moved to a different position within my office and told that this was not a "personnel action." I received the lightly veiled threat that the "7th floor" (FBI executives in DC) knew about me. I was instructed to keep my head down and do as I was told. In May 2025, I took the deferred resignation. The decision came as a shock to most people, myself included.I wrote this in my LinkedIn post last spring announcing my departure from the FBI, and it is still true today:"If I learned anything in the FBI, it is that yes, you can say no. If something is wrong, unjust, or unethical, you speak up, and sometimes speaking up means saying 'no.' But with a no, there also comes a 'yes.' Yes, I will always uphold my oath. Yes, I will always do the right thing. Yes, I will always ask the important questions."You can connect with Jill on LinkedIn.Learn more about this episode on our ⁠⁠website⁠⁠. If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ko-fi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠follow us⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Mike Romano spent nearly 18 years as an attorney with the Department of Justice (DOJ). He loved his job and thought it would be his forever job. On January 20, 2025, he watched four years of work get wiped away.In January 2021, Mike was a trial attorney in DOJ’s Public Integrity Section. He remembered watching the events of January 6th unfold on the news. He was horrified as he saw an enormous swarm of people descend upon the US Capitol, overwhelming the building and brazenly committing crimes in broad daylight. Rioters attempted to intimidate members of Congress into keeping Donald Trump in office, demanding Congress completely disregard the legal process for certifying an election. Mike had a horrible feeling about what was happening. He worried that people would leave Washington, D.C., without facing consequences for their actions. He was sick at the thought. By February 2021, Mike was on loan to the D.C. US Attorney’s Office for the Capitol Siege Section (CSS). For the next four years, he relived the Capitol attack every day while prosecuting January 6th cases, eventually serving as Deputy Chief beginning in September 2022. Nearly 1,600 defendants were “federally charged with crimes associated with the attack of the US Capitol.” By Inauguration Day 2025, Mike and his colleagues were worried about what would happen next. They didn’t have to wonder long. President Trump signed an executive order pardoning the January 6th rioters—not just the defendants who committed misdemeanors, but also those who committed violent crimes. The pardons were based on what President Trump called a “grave, national injustice.” The real injustice was that the pardons rewarded acts of domestic terrorism intended to undermine the peaceful transfer of power.Mike had the sinking feeling that he had to leave. For almost two months, he lived with a pit in his stomach, wondering daily if he would get fired. He had seen several of his co-workers from CSS terminated. Mike returned to Public Integrity just in time to watch his principal deputy chief and three deputy chiefs resign after refusing to sign the Motion to Dismiss corruption charges against Mayor Eric Adams in the Southern District of New York. Mike knew he could not stay and watch the rule of law completely disregarded.Mike resigned from the DOJ in March 2025 and joined Lichten & Liss-Riordan, P.C., where he represents workers and advocates for their rights. He continues to speak out about the changes happening at DOJ and within the US Government. You can connect with Mike on LinkedIn.Learn more about this episode on our website. If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠⁠⁠Ko-fi⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠follow us⁠⁠⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Madeline Vellturo spent the last decade working on violence prevention, peacebuilding, and stability. Between April and July, the State Department eliminated the entire Conflict and Stabilization Operations Bureau, where Madeline worked as a stabilization advisor implementing the Global Fragility Act. Now Madeline is continuing her mission through storytelling. Along with former colleagues, she launched their YouTube channel Former Feds & Friends, where they share their expertise in violence prevention while reacting to popular film and media. By looking at conflict prevention through the lens of fiction, Madeline and friends are making complex problems approachable and digestible in an age of weaponized media.In their first season, they took on topics from authoritarianism and atrocities to insurgencies and refugees while running the pop culture gauntlet through DC, Marvel, Star Trek, Disney, and others. In the spirit of Christmas, Philip and Jill joined Madeline for an age-old holiday tradition: watching Die Hard. Together, we discussed the dangers of biases, interagency conflict, and mislabeling violent criminals as terrorists.Madeline isn't spending all of her time on YouTube though. She is staying sharp by consulting on violence prevention and recently published an article analyzing foreign investment risk and opportunity in Guinea. She's also enjoying life as a newlywed and pursuing future research opportunities.Check out the Christmas crossover special Forking Off with Former Feds & Friends.Die Hard - McClane's Big MistakeDie Hard - Hans Gruber's DownfallConnect with Madeline on LinkedIn, and make sure to check out Former Feds & Friends on YouTube.Learn more about this episode on our website.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠Ko-fi⁠, and ⁠follow us⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the Department of State, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Sarah Ellison Hernandez's dream was to become a judge. In 2018, Sarah's dream was realized when she was appointed as an immigration judge. It was the highlight of her career. She remembers excitedly calling her mom with the news. To this day, the memories of her swearing-in ceremony make her emotional because of the weight and importance of her oath. Sarah thought this would be her forever job. Normally, a new presidential administration will cause a few changes to immigration courts, but those are just adjustments in priorities and don't spark legal concern. Beginning in January, Sarah saw what she calls "bread crumbs" of the administration trying to go somewhere with immigration law and policy. Sarah was concerned by the barrage of "spicy" policy memos being released daily. These memos laying the groundwork to fire employees for minor infractions. Sarah became increasingly concerned when she learned the US State Department's Country Reports on Human Rights Practices would no longer include information about persecution of women, individuals with disabilities, or LGBTQ+ individuals. They also removed or reduced coverage of issues such as fair trials, political freedom, corruption, and more. Immigration judges rely heavily on these annual reports to adjudicate asylum claims for protection from persecution or torture. Sarah recalled a time when she relied on the reports to grant a claim for a woman who had escaped an honor killing in India. This change was one of the first moments Sarah saw the administration taking away protections for everyone. Every day in 2025 was something new for Sarah, and things were only getting worse. The DOJ's Executive Office of Immigration Review was instructing immigration judges to pretermit applications. Cases were to be dismissed, and individuals were to be placed in expedited removal. All of these instructions made Sarah squeamish. The breaking point for Sarah was the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case, when the administration lied about the circumstances surrounding Abrego Garcia's deportation in intentional defiance of the law and court order. Sarah's gut was telling her "Danger! Danger! Danger!"Sarah worried about DOJ taking advantage of how immigration courts are set up. With immigration courts being administrative courts and part of the DOJ, the Attorney General can pull a case and issue a ruling which then becomes binding case law. The Board of Immigration Appeals reports to the Attorney General, who reports to the President. The AG can control what immigration courts do, and the AG is currently pushing the bounds of what is constitutionally allowable. Sarah wondered at what point she would be asked or instructed to do something illegal.When the second Deferred Resignation Program offer came around, Sarah knew she had to take it. She could no longer keep her head down and hope for the best. She saw the administration lie and intentionally defy court orders. Sarah refused to be a part of that. Since leaving her dream job, Sarah has opened her own private practice, Ellison Hernandez, PLLC, in Midlothian, Texas, providing consultation services and litigation support for other attorneys and law firms. Sarah is using her 15 years of state, federal, and immigration court experience to give insight and assist other attorneys and law firms in advocating for their clients. She is licensed to practice law in Texas and supports clients nationwide via her virtual platform.Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn.For more information about this episode, visit our ⁠website⁠.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠⁠Ko-fi⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠follow us⁠⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

When Molly Kocialski became the Director of the Rocky Mountain Regional US Patent and Trademark Office, she traded the wealth of 20 years of private practice for the stability and flexibility of federal employment. In September 2025, that balance shifted, and Molly left her job of ten years with the USPTO.At 12:04 am Eastern Time on October 1st, just minutes into what would become the longest government shutdown in history, the USPTO announced the closure of the Rocky Mountain Regional Office and a reduction-in-force targeting approximately 200 employees. Molly was the Rocky Mountain office's second—and last—regional director.A 2019 study determined intellectual property directly supported $7.8 trillion in US GDP and over 44 million American jobs. As an educator and public liaison, Molly made sure the public got its money's worth out of the nation's only fully fee-funded agency. Molly traveled over a dozen times a year throughout her office's nine-state region, meeting with everyone from farmers to semiconductor manufacturers to ensure they knew how the USPTO could help them protect their intellectual property.As an administrator, Molly cared deeply for her people. You can hear this as she poignantly discusses how they were undermined by policy changes since January. From contract reductions to travel bans, it became nearly impossible to do the necessary work of the USPTO. After the February return-to-office mandate, Molly started "snacks and support" because the office's food services had ceased during COVID, and her team's fast pace of virtual meetings with the public didn't leave time for people to go out for lunch. Even after her departure, she spent the early hours of October 1st consoling former employees and colleagues who had abruptly lost their jobs.Molly is continuing her commitment to service in private practice where she's helping inventors navigate the constant series of changes at the USPTO. When she's not busy at the office, Molly can be found lovingly serving bagels at her son's football practice, which you may hear echoes of in this episode. 🏈In this episode, Molly highlights numerous changes at the USPTO that raise concerns about the agency's ability to continue issuing patents every Tuesday, as it has like clockwork since the 1800s. In that spirit, we've created a small project to monitor whether patents are issued on time. We hope you'll check it out on our website from time-to-time to see how things are going, or learn how to implement it yourself on our GitHub.Connect with Molly on LinkedIn or find her at Holland & Hart.For more information about this episode, ⁠⁠⁠⁠visit our website⁠⁠⁠⁠.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠⁠Ko-fi⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠follow us⁠⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the USPTO, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Mike Johnson would make an excellent first base coach for the Boston Red Sox. As an Interior Communications Electrician in the Navy, he honed the skills necessary to protect sensitive communications under stress. He also learned to foster growth and build high functioning teams—a skill he carried forward while mentoring veterans at the State Department and now as a civilian. He's no stranger to celebrities either. Mike worked with high ranking diplomats, and even met former Vice President Kamala Harris. Not to mention, he's got prior experience coaching first base with the Fairfax Little League.As a Public Affairs Specialist with the Bureau of East Asian & Pacific Affairs, Mike managed crisis communications for high-visibility policy issues ranging everywhere from the Burmese military coup and North Korean missile launches to natural disasters and COVID. As a Program Analyst, he advised presidential appointment candidates on clearance and vetting processes and coordinated with the White Hose to manage all State Department presidential nomination packages.In January 2025, Mike made the move to the Bureau of Overseas Buildings Operations Office of Policy and Program Analysis and prepared to lean into his leadership background before learning that he was being terminated as part of a Reduction-in-Force despite having tenure, veterans preference, and a stellar performance record.Since leaving government, Mike has continued to mentor veterans, while also advancing his own professional interests. Mike is exploring opportunities in project management and corporate government affairs, as well as educational opportunities in Artificial Intelligence Management. Whether you're managing a Major League Baseball team or a communications program at a Fortune 500 company, Mike would make a great addition to your team.Cheer Mike on via LinkedIn.For more information about this episode, ⁠⁠visit our website⁠⁠.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠Ko-fi⁠, or ⁠follow us⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Patty Hartman began her public service career as a member of the fourth estate 37 years ago as a news radio reporter in Wilmington, Delaware. In July 2007, after nearly twenty years in radio and TV journalism, Patty was drawn to federal service by her love of the law. She spent the next 18 years serving in various public affairs roles with the Department of Justice before being fired by Attorney General Pam Bondi on July 7, 2025.Between 2019 and 2021, Patty worked as a public affairs specialist at the FBI Newark Field Office and the Drug Enforcement Administration. Since late 2022, Patty oversaw media engagement with the US Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia, which included the Superior Court for the District of Columbia, and press releases related to the 1,500 domestic terrorists who attacked the US Capitol on January 6th, 2021.Within days of the beginning of the second Trump Administration, Patty's duties changed drastically, and she spent most of the next four months feeling alienated by her leadership. By May, Patty had observed a morale shift following the obliteration of the separation between the White House and DOJ, but a change in leadership at the USAO gave her hope that her situation would improve.Hours after a July meeting with her new Director of External Affairs who had recently joined the office from Fox News, Patty was abruptly terminated and left scrambling to collect her personal effects before her last long train ride home. Now, Patty is calling on former federal employees to run for public office and restore faith in the legislative branch's constitutionally-mandated checks and balances of the executive. Patty is still seeking opportunities to continue her career of service, volunteering with the National Active and Retired Federal Employees Association, and getting certified along with her beloved pup to do therapy visits for others in need.Patty remains a beloved part of the extended FBI and DOJ family, and we're outraged and devastated by the administration's decision to politicize her role as a dedicated public servant. The January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol remains the single largest attack against the US Capitol since the British siege of Washington, DC during the War of 1812. Patty's role sharing information with the public about DOJ's effort to defend democracy should be admired not punished.----------Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, LinkedIn, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi where we've set a goal to upgrade our hosting services.----------Watch Patty's interview with CBS News about her unlawful firing.----------Learn more about Patty from her hometown paper, The Philadelphia Inquirer.----------Read about former feds running for public office on the Federal News Network.----------For more information about this episode, visit our website.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

From January until April of 2025, Dr. Ana Mitchell lived in fight or flight mode, not knowing each day if she would be part of the layoffs or Reduction-in-Force (RIF) actions of the new administration. On April 1, 2025, Ana lost her dream job as a Project Officer/Public Health Advisor with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the Chronic Disease Center. In the midst of uncertainty and confusion, Ana turned her despair into action and rebranded herself as "Ana Fired Fed."After her RIF notice, Ana spent a month recentering and acknowledging her anxiety and grief. At the urging of her friends, Ana shared her story of resilience through social media and was overwhelmed by the outpouring of support. Ana quickly gained a following of other former federal employees looking for ways to continue making a difference in their communities.Now, Ana is on a mission to make civic engagement a part of people's everyday life. Ana is using social media to start a cultural revolution, making civic action accessible, authentic, and sustainable. Ana is determined to make civic engagement a lifestyle by helping people become civically fit and strengthening democracy. Ana is taking to the internet to guide people on their civic fitness journeys whether they are beginner, intermediate, or advanced. One easy way to start is by practicing digital resistance. Digital resistance can be as simple as sharing information that is important to you on social media or commenting on posts for community reach. Follow Ana on Instagram and TikTok to learn how taking consistent, small actions over time can make big impacts on your community. ----------Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, LinkedIn, Mastodon, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi where we've set a goal to upgrade our hosting services.----------After April Fools’ Day purge, U.S. health agencies spiral into chaosScience, Vol 388, Issue 6743----------Read more about Ana's story at The Fed Up----------Read the notice terminating the Presidential Management Fellows Program----------Learn more about the ADKAR model----------Find ways to get civically engaged with the 5 Calls app----------Contact your elected officials all at once with Resistbot----------Sign the petition to Protect Public Health Employees from Continued Threats, Harassment, and Targeting-----------Learn more about Heal the Bay -----------Learn more about the Westside Food Bank in Santa Monica----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Jill and Philip sit down with former DOJ employee, Jordan Mathews, to hear why she decided to leave her dream job. In this episode, Jordan shares her journey from serving with the Peace Corps in the Dominican Republic to the Rotary Peace Fellowship in Uppsala, Sweden. As a Presidential Management Fellow, Jordan found her dream job working at the U.S. Department of Justice, Community Relations Service, America’s Peacemaker. Now, Jordan is saying the true thing out loud and building community on The Fed Up.----------Find Jordan on LinkedIn, on Substack at The Fed Up, or contact her at thefedupcommunity[at]gmail[dot]com. ----------“An Inside Job: Writing Your (True)Story and Why That Matters” by Jordan Mathews on October 8th----------Peace Corps----------Rotary Peace Fellowships----------Presidential Management FellowsProgram: “Termination of the PMF Program”Posted on February 19, 2025. ----------we are wellfed----------Justice Connection----------Reuters, “New Justice Department Policy Cracks Down on Social Media Posts”, April 15, 2025 by Sarah N. Lynch. "The new policy represents another unwarranted attack on DOJ employees - one that stifles their free speech in their private lives and creates new ways for the administration to oust career public servants who don't toe the party line," said Young.----------The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

2025 has seen unprecedented change in the United States. This is Forking Off. Join us on this journey beginning October 1st as former feds share their stories of why they left government service. Learn more at forkingoff.com.