Grow Your Camp

In this episode Mark opens with a tribute to one of his earliest camp mentors, Neil Fichthorn, the longtime executive director at Sandy Cove. Mark shares the leadership lessons Neil taught him — including the phrase that became foundational to this podcast: “You can’t minister to empty beds.”Carl’s quick camp marketing tip focuses on why your Google Business Profile may be quietly costing you bookings. He explains how local search results work, why reviews and categories matter, and how small profile updates can improve visibility for camps and retreat centers.The featured conversation is with Casey Fuerst, owner of Tic Tac Toe Marketing, who spent 18 years serving at a Lutheran camp in Nebraska before launching an agency focused on camps and nonprofits. Casey shares how camp shaped her personally and why she now helps camps communicate more clearly.The conversation explores one of the biggest problems Casey sees on camp websites: cluttered messaging. Using her “hall closet” analogy, she explains why trying to communicate everything at once confuses parents and retreat guests instead of helping them take action. The episode also covers Donald Miller’s StoryBrand framework and practical ways camps can simplify messaging, strengthen positioning, and improve marketing clarity.Keywordscamp marketing, camp website design, StoryBrand for camps, camp messaging, Christian camp marketingSound Bites“If everybody thinks their stuff belongs on the front page of the website, it becomes the junk drawer.”“Clear is kind. Clever is not.”“Most organizations are communicating at an eight when customers only need a two.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestCasey Fuerst, Tic Tac Toe MarketingChapters00:05 Introduction02:11 Today's Topic: Messaging & Clarity02:45 Quick Tip: Your Google Business Profile10:19 Messaging and Brand Positioning10:51 Meet Casey Fuerst12:31 Casey's Camp Story12:34 Personal Camp Stories and Experiences13:37 The Impact of Camp Experiences on Young Adults16:11 Marketing Insights for Camps16:20 The Hall Closet Problem19:28 The Importance of Clear Messaging22:01 The StoryBrand Framework22:11 The StoryBrand Framework in Action25:14 Real-World Examples of Messaging Success25:43 Finding Your One Message28:14 Navigating New Audiences and Digital Marketing28:56 Messaging Wins: Real Stories31:14 Celebrating Podcast Milestones and Future Directions38:56 Where Messaging Works Best42:45 Reaching New Audiences46:14 Wrap-Up & Celebrating Episode 10Have a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >

In this episode, Carl shares a practical marketing tip on turning past guests into your next booking engine—one of the fastest, most cost-effective ways to increase occupancy without chasing entirely new leads. By segmenting your audience and sending timely, relevant follow-up emails, camps can unlock a major source of repeat business that often goes underused.Then Mark interviews Bob Briscoe, Executive Director of Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center, brings a long-term perspective shaped by decades in camping—from his early experiences as a camper and trail guide to leading the organization through seasons of change. That background informs how he approaches leadership, balancing mission, relationships, and financial sustainability.The conversation walks through how the camp moved from inconsistent, “spiky” bookings to steady growth. Faced with unpredictable revenue and underperforming programs, Bob and his team made key decisions to simplify their offerings, focus on profitable guest groups, and invest in improving their marketing visibility. The result was fewer gaps, stronger midweek bookings, and significant growth in room nights—including doubling occupancy in one of their primary lodging facilities.This episode highlights what actually drives sustainable growth: clear decisions about what to stop doing, systems that support consistent marketing, and the willingness to seek outside help when internal capacity runs thin.Keywordscamp growth, retreat center marketing, camp occupancy, guest group strategy, camp revenue growth, digital marketing for camps, camp leadership, camp operations, retreat booking consistencySound Bites“Our bookings were spiky… full weekends and then crickets.”“The big change was answering the phone because it was ringing.”“You can’t afford the person you need—so get the right help another way.”“Be open to asking for help and being teachable.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestBob Briscoe, Williamsburg Christian Retreat CenterChapters00:00 Introduction and Podcast Format00:05 Marketing Strategies for Camps03:00 Bob Briscoe's Journey in Camp Leadership06:05 Understanding Williamsburg Christian Retreat Center09:12 Challenges and Changes in Camp Operations12:14 Navigating Program Adjustments and Guest Groups16:51 Innovative Retreat Solutions17:58 Recognizing the Need for External Help19:23 Evaluating Marketing Partnerships22:15 Navigating Budget Approvals24:20 Implementing Changes Post-COVID26:37 Tracking Revenue Growth28:24 Creative Strategies During Challenges29:24 Future Growth Focus31:07 Encouragement for Stuck Camp Directors35:33 Personal Insights on Marriage GrowthHave a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >

In this episode, Carl shares a camp marketing tip on how answering unasked questions on your website can dramatically increase retreat inquiries. Then Mark sits down with John Schwieterman, Executive Director of Cross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center, to unpack how he transformed a struggling camp into a rapidly growing operation.John shares the real story behind that growth—from cold calling hundreds of churches with limited results to implementing a system that now generates consistent inbound leads and an 88% close rate. They walk through the practical changes that made the difference, including website improvements, digital marketing strategy, and the leadership shift required to stop doing everything alone.You’ll hear what actually worked, what didn’t, and how to think about growth as both an operational and strategic challenge. If you’re trying to fill more beds, increase bookings, or move your camp out of survival mode, this episode gives you a clear, real-world example of what that path can look like.Keywordscamp growth, retreat bookings, camp marketing, lead generation, website optimization, digital marketing, camp leadership, nonprofit growth, camp revenue, guest groupsKey TopicsWhy most camp websites fail to convert inquiriesThe shift from cold outreach to inbound lead generationWebsite structure and FAQ strategy for better conversionsUsing Google Ads and SEO to drive qualified leadsImproving close rates with better lead qualityThe operational challenges that come with growthLeadership mindset: when and how to ask for helpMeasuring ROI on marketing investmentsHostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestJohn Schwieterman, Executive DirectorCross Oaks Camp and Retreat CenterChapters00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview02:00 Camp Marketing Tip: Answering Unasked Questions05:08 John’s Camp Story and Background08:48 Challenges Facing Camp Growth12:45 Early Growth Efforts and Cold Calling Strategy18:48 Realizing the Need for Help21:16 Investing in Marketing and Systems23:24 Website and Lead Generation Transformation27:46 Results: Higher Close Rates and Revenue Growth30:29 The Operational Reality of Growth31:54 Leadership Lessons and Asking for Help33:08 Advice for Executive Directors35:03 Understanding Marketing ROI39:26 Time Management and Scaling LeadershipResourcesCross Oaks Camp and Retreat Center >Google for Nonprofits >Grow Your Camp Podcast >Have a question you'd like us to cover?Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leader who could benefitWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >

In this episode, Carl shares a tip on how camps can get to the top of Google quickly by leveraging the Google Ads grant and Mark interviews Ryan Moore from Kaleidoscope. Ryan shares insights on strategic planning, camp growth, and the importance of clarity and courage for camp leaders. Discover practical tips, inspiring stories, and a special offer for listeners to enhance your camp's impact and sustainability.Keywords:camp growth, strategic planning, camp leadership, camp marketing, Kaleidoscope, camp development, non-profit, camp strategy, camp sustainability, growth tipsKey TopicsThe role of clarity and courage in camp growthHow strategic planning drives camp successThe importance of outcomes over featuresUsing data and assessment for growthStories of camp impact and transformationHostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthGuestRyan Moore, Kaleidoscope, IncChapters00:00 Introduction and Technical Setup00:05 Welcome to the Grow Your Camp Podcast01:25 Marketing Tip: Google Ads Grant for Nonprofits04:51 Ryan Moore's Camp Connection and Story08:07 Overview of Kaleidoscope's Services12:18 Challenges Facing Camps: Clarity and Courage17:25 Case Study: Strategic Planning Success20:49 Conclusion and Call to ActionResourcesLearn more about Kaleidoscope Consulting at https://kaleidoscopeinc.com/Register for the Google for Nonprofits program to access the Google Ads Grant at https://www.google.com/nonprofits/Submit a Topic to the Grow Your Camp Podcast via our website at https://growyourcamppodcast.comTalk to Carl at Improve & Grow about getting help setting up your Google Ad Grant at https://improveandgrow.com/Have a question you'd like us to cover on a future podcast? Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful to you:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leaderWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >

In this episode, Mark and Carl share a practical marketing insight before diving into a conversation with Molly Hooks from the American Forest Foundation on how camps can turn underutilized land into a new source of revenue.The episode opens with a simple but often overlooked growth lever: your photos. Camps that replace empty facility shots with real, people-filled images can increase inquiries by reducing uncertainty and helping families picture themselves at camp.From there, Molly explains how the Family Forest Carbon Program works and how camps can participate. With as little as 30 acres of eligible forest, camps can enroll and receive payments over time while maintaining their land for recreation and conservation. While the per-acre revenue is modest, it creates a steady income stream that can help offset rising costs and protect land from development.Molly also shares how her own camp experiences shaped her passion for forestry and conservation, reinforcing the long-term impact camps have on how people value the outdoors.The conversation walks through the enrollment process, what makes land eligible, and what camps can expect—including a customized forest management plan that supports long-term land health and stewardship. The result is a practical way to align mission, sustainability, and financial stability without changing how camps use their property.Keywordscamp land management, forest conservation, carbon credits, camp revenue streams, Family Forest Carbon Program, American Forest Foundation, land stewardship, retreat center operations, property management for camps, conservation fundingSound Bites“It’s not just revenue—it’s about conservation and stewardship.”“Most camps already have the acreage—they just haven’t leveraged it.”“This is another way to keep that land in your camp’s name.”HostsMark P. Fisher, Inspiring GrowthCarl Lefever, Improve & GrowGuestMolly Hooks, American Forest FoundationChapters00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guests00:05 Understanding the Family Forest Carbon Program05:47 Molly's Camp Experience and Its Impact11:45 Enrollment Process and Eligibility for Camps16:36 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsResources:Family Forest Carbon Program - https://familyforestcarbon.orgAmerican Forest Foundation - https://www.forestfoundation.orgHave a question you'd like us to cover on a future podcast? Click here to record your question >If this episode was helpful to you:Follow / subscribe to the podcastShare it with another camp leaderWant Help Growing Your Camp?Schedule a Chat with Mark >Schedule a Chat with Carl >