Hangar DX Podcast

"A software factory is essentially a CNC machine. Without training, many people are going to cut off their hands."In this episode of the HangarDX podcast, Ankit Jain, co-founder and CEO of Aviator, talks to Geoffrey Huntley, AI and software engineering practitioner, creator of Ralph Loop, and independent thinker on autonomous engineering, about:- Why most companies are cargo-culting AI adoption and skipping the foundational work - Designing architecture for agent maintainability and not human maintainability - Why the next programming language won't be designed for humans at all00:00 Introduction 02:44 The Future of Software Development and Orchestrators08:48 Reskilling for the New Era of Engineering12:36 The Evolution of Engineering Organizations17:38 Software Factories and Verification Challenges21:34 Convergence of Programming Languages and Future Trends27:10 Innovations in Programming Languages28:29 The Role of Code Reviews in Modern Development33:07 Knowledge Sharing vs. Code Review39:05 Architectural Evolution and Decision Making43:26 Maintaining Code Quality with AI45:54 The Future of Programming Languages and Verification48:37 The Role of Language in Programming and Tech Debt51:41 AI's Impact on Tech Debt and Code Quality55:45 Understanding AI Slop vs. Tech Debt59:53 Automation and the Future of Code Management📫 Sign up for our email list for more podcasts, articles, events, and other updates: https://www.aviator.co/podcast✏️ Subscribe for more videos: @Aviator-Co🙌 Join a curated community of senior engineers and engineering leaders focused on developer experience and solving productivity challenges at scale! Check out our upcoming off-the-record online sessions where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas and share hard-earned wisdom: https://dx.community/Replace code reviews with verified intentAI writes code faster than humans can review it. Aviator Verify provides compliance-grade verification through spec-driven development. Ship faster with complete audit trails. https://verify.aviator.co/

“Many of us became software engineers because we found our identity in building things. Not managing things. Not overseeing things. Building things. With our own hands, our own minds, our own code.But that identity is being challenged.”In this episode of the HangarDX podcast, Ankit Jain, co-founder and CEO of Aviator, talks to Annie Vella about the software engineer’s identity crisis, why engineers are so attached to writing code, and how they can prepare for a rapidly evolving future.00:00 The Identity Crisis in Software Engineering04:52 Transitioning from Engineering to Management09:55 The Engineer-Manager Pendulum14:56 The Evolution of Software Engineering Roles19:54 AI's Impact on Software Engineering24:46 Building Trust in AI and Human Collaboration29:34 Skills for the Future of Software Engineering34:39 The Future of Software EngineeringAbout Annie VellaAnnie is a lifelong computer enthusiast with two decades of hands-on engineering and technical leadership experience. Currently a Distinguished Engineer at Westpac New Zealand, she focuses on resilient systems, cross-org opportunities, and quality-first engineering processes. In 2024, she began a part-time Master’s of Engineering in Software Engineering at the University of Auckland, researching the impact of AI on the profession itself.About Hangar DX (https://dx.community/)The Hangar is a community of senior DevOps and senior software engineers focused on developer experience. This is a space where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas, share hard-earned wisdom, troubleshoot issues, and ultimately help each other in their projects and careers.We invite developers who work in DX and platform teams at their respective companies or who are interested in developer productivity.

"Let’s not worry about how fast somebody can run. Let’s assume that they will be fast if they’re in a rocket."In this episode of The Hangar DX podcast, Shahab Malik, DevEx UX Researcher at JP Morgan Chase, discusses researching developers' needs and pain points in a 70,000-engineer organization and advocates for an enablement approach to developer productivity metrics. Chapters00:00 Introduction to Developer Experience and UX Research01:59 The Role of UX Research in Developer Experience05:21 Methodologies in UX Research10:08 Understanding Developer Needs and Pain Points13:59 Metrics and Measuring Developer Productivity20:52 The Importance of System Metrics vs. Individual Metrics27:40 Communicating Developer Experience to Leadership32:43 The Impact of AI on Developer ExperienceAbout Shahab MalikShahab Malik is a UX Researcher at JPMorgan Chase, where he focuses on Developer Experience (DevEx) within the firm’s Internal Developer Platform (IDP). With a PhD in cultural anthropology, Shahab brings both qualitative and quantitative methods to studying human behavior in complex technical environments. About Hangar DX (https://dx.community/)The Hangar is a community of senior DevOps engineers and senior software engineers focused on enhancing the developer experience. This is a space where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas, share hard-earned wisdom, troubleshoot issues, and help each other in their projects and careers.We invite developers who work in DX and platform teams at their respective companies or who are interested in developer productivity to join us!

"Metrics will not measure developer productivity and will not solve your engineering organization’s problems", say Adam Berry, Staff Engineer at Netflix.Adam sits with Ankit Jain, host of The Hangar DX podcast, to discuss one of the most debated topics in engineering: developer productivity metrics.Adam shares why metrics like the DORA4 were never meant to measure individual productivity, how trust (or lack of it) inside organizations changes the way metrics are used, and why managers often get lost in numbers instead of focusing on narrative and impact.He explains that metrics are a feedback mechanism, the “metrics industrial complex,” and pitfalls of over-measuring, and how to design metrics from scratch. 00:00 Introduction to Developer Productivity Metrics01:23 The Origins of Productivity Metrics07:22 The Obsession with Metrics10:44 Challenges in Measuring Developer Productivity12:33 The Metrics Industrial Complex15:38 The Role of Metrics in Understanding Delivery Performance19:31 Designing Effective Metrics for Organizations21:57 Understanding Quality Issues in Engineering34:32 Measuring Code Quality and Technical Debt39:02 Prioritizing Engineering Challenges41:42 Future of Engineering ProductivityAbout Adam BerryAdam has worked on developer tools and infrastructure throughout his career, from Eclipse plugins to service and infrastructure work; he now focuses on developer platforms as products to empower engineers and make teams and organizations drastically more effective.About Hangar DX (https://dx.community/)The Hangar is a community of senior DevOps engineers and senior software engineers, focused on enhancing the developer experience. This is a space where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas, share hard-earned wisdom, troubleshoot issues, and help each other in their projects and careers.We invite developers who work in DX and platform teams at their respective companies, or who are interested in developer productivity.

“What’s your AI strategy’ is the wrong question for engineering leaders. A better one would be: “What are you doing to improve engineering efficiency by 15–20%?”You don’t have to chase AI just for AI’s sake. Instead, focus on the biggest pain point, on whatever is slowing your teams down. In most orgs, it has nothing to do with needing faster typers.”In this episode of the HangarDX podcast, Ankit Jain, co-founder and CEO of Aviator, talks to Chris Westerhold, Global Practice Director for Engineering Excellence at Thoughtworks, to discuss how AI is fundamentally transforming the developer experience (DevEx). Chris talks about how AI is changing the definition of developer, engineering orgs feeling FOMO of not adopting AI tools instead of focusing on workflow pain points, AI tools adding to cognitive overload, how to evaluate the productivity gains of AI tools, and what’s the right approach to AI strategy when it comes to developer experience. 00:00 Introduction to Developer Experience and AI01:12 The Evolution of Developer Experience04:30 Navigating Tool Proliferation in Software Development09:35 Cognitive Load and Complexity in AI-Driven Development18:04 Finding Focused Solutions Amidst AI Hype20:58 Metrics and Measuring AI Impact34:06 Developing an AI Strategy for Engineering TeamsAbout Chris WesterholdChris is a Global Practice Director for Engineering Excellence at Thoughtworks. He has over 15 years of technology experience across startups and large enterprises, with a significant focus on building scalable engineering teams, engineering metrics strategies, developer platforms, platform engineering, and technical product management. He is a vocal advocate for developer experience and is passionate about using data-driven approaches to improve it.About Hangar DX (https://dx.community/)The Hangar is a community of senior DevOps and senior software engineers focused on developer experience. This is a space where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas, share hard-earned wisdom, troubleshoot issues, and ultimately help each other in their projects and careers.We invite developers who work in DX and platform teams at their respective companies, or who are interested in developer productivity.

"Augmenting engineers with AI wherever it makes sense so they can be more productive" is the mission of Daniel Doubrovkine and his Augmented Engineering team at Shopify. In this episode of the HangarDX podcast, Ankit Jain, co-founder and CEO of Aviator, talks to Daniel about AI’s impact on software engineering and developer productivity. He shares insights on Shopify’s AI-integrated workflows and strategies to improve the developer experience in what he calls a giant mono repo, the world's largest Ruby on Rails app. Daniel also reflects on his career path from individual contributor to management and back, and the importance of staying hands-on with code in an AI-driven future.Chapters00:00 AI in Software Engineering06:36 Solving Engineering Problems With AI at Shopify18:46 Prioritization and Planning in Developer Productivity23:15 From IC to Manager and Back 28:52 The Individual Contributor vs. Manager Dilemma34:44 AI is Getting Better Fast37:30 Strategies for Successful AI Adoption in OrganizationsFind more episodes at https://www.aviator.co/podcast

Charity Majors, CTO at Honeycomb, on the importance of creating a culture where shipping code is a regular, expected practice, and how organizations can transition to continuous deployment.This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit podcast.aviator.co