Holding the Fort Abroad

Episode takeaways:Sue Schoormans, author of "Sink Then Swim" - shares practical insights and heartfelt stories about her search for work after relocating abroad, what led to her and her husband’s decision to do a long-distance relationship and some surprising results of that decision. This episode is packed with insights from her lived experience.Career Realities Abroad:Discover practical insights for expats facing slow job markets, the importance of language and local qualifications, and what it’s really like to “start over” in a new professional landscape—even after years of high-level experienceSink, Then Swim:introduces her book, outlining a framework for managing life’s most stressful challenges abroad—from bereavement to finding work—emphasizing the balance between adapting to a new culture and staying true to your authentic selfResilience & Change:Self-knowledge is the ultimate anchor through relocation, long distance, and life’s transitions. Long distance isn’t just a single choice but an evolving experienceConnect with Sue SchoormansSue Schoormans - YouTubeContact Rhoda: rhoda@amulticulturallife.comReceive news regularly on new episodes of HTFA Podcast and on new events and resources. Subscribe to my newsletter.Buy the book: Holding the Fort AbroadYour partner's job opportunity in another country seemed like an exciting idea, but lengthy work assignments mean you're holding down the family fort - alone.OR Your partner is working and living in another country, and you feel like you are shouldering all the home responsibilities alone.You may be wondering:How can we be a family when we're miles apart?Can I cope, alone, when troubles arise?I believe there are answers to the above questions, and the answers start with you. In this context, it's more important than ever to invest in yourself, to care for yourself, to set your own goals and to watch yourself grow. Equally important is to nurture your relationship with your partner and learn to parent together.

For the next few months, I will be publishing one new episode every first Monday of the month. The second monthly episode will be a replay of the most popular episodes. My interview with Vivian Chiona is a top FIVE. Vivian is the founder of Expat Nest, online counselling service for internationals. She is a registered psychologist with Master’s degrees in both Child & Adolescent Psychology and Health Psychology. She was recognised in 2020 as one of the 100 most influential women in the world by Women appreciating Women. She is bicultural with family all over the world, Vivian is familiar with the international community and inspired by its diversity. In this episode, she shares top strategies for long distance couples. Enjoy! WarmlyRhoda

Synopsis:Today’s episode is for anyone experiencing relationship strain due to frequent work travel or international assignments. My guest, Ian Orton, counsellor and founder of People Care Matters, has spent 35 years supporting professionals who work far from home and the families affected by these separations. We discuss how travel impacts connection, how distance can slowly create emotional drift, and how couples and families can intentionally maintain closeness even when time apart is unavoidable.I think frequent travel is a part of the whole deal with relief and development work and with other NGO work. There's often a huge amount of travel. And I've come across it where people have said that home is really an aeroplane seat, or it's on a train somewhere, or it's in the car traveling between places Key Takeaways:Performance at Work Is Often Linked to Home LifeDisrupted family relationships and stress from prolonged separations commonly impact work performance. Pastoral support and organizational care are vital when international work or frequent travel creates tension at home, affecting focus and well-being on the job. Recognizing this interplay helps organizations and individuals respond more compassionately and proactively.Frequent travel impacts everyone—be proactiveWhether you’re the one traveling or the partner holding things together at home, Ian highlighted that both sides face stress, and the drifting apart can happen without realizing it. He suggests annual reevaluations, prioritizing quality time, and even creative exercises to keep connections strong. Intentional Relationship Maintenance is essential is just as crucial in frequent travel scenarios as in long-term split-living.Reintegration Takes Planning and SkillReturning home after being away can upset established family routines and dynamics. Both partners should learn negotiation and communication skills to ease reintegration and avoid unnecessary conflict. Periodic check-ins and adjustments help families re-establish connection instead of feeling like intruders in their own homes.Organizational Support Goes Beyond the EmployeeEmployers should recognize the impact of travel/split assignments on non-employee family members. Offering resources, pastoral care, or flexibility acknowledges that spouses and children also need support. When leaders or HR notice decreased performance or well-being, addressing underlying family stresses is just as important as work-focused interventions.Trusted Advisers Offer Perspective and SupportCultivating honest relationships outside the immediate family – with peers, mentors, or experienced friends – provides invaluable perspective and accountability. Trusted advisers can help spot challenges early, offer practical wisdom, and keep families aligned with their values as contexts and needs shift over time.Contingency and Crisis Planning Is CrucialFamilies separated by work should actively plan for emergencies: legal documentation, guardianship, communication protocols, and scenario planning. This forward thinking reduces anxiety and ensures stability for children and spouses when unexpected events occur. Proactive conversations about “what if” scenarios help everyone feel safer and more prepared.Ian’s experience and honesty about his own journey serve as a valuable resource for all global professionals and families managing work life and family life when time away from family is routine.the organizational duty of care, it seems to me, can be to really encourage people to have those great conversations and to overcome some of those difficulties without going down the well worn pathways of meeting their own needs in wrong ways or just becoming angry people or the convenience of having another assignment to go away to.Listen to the episode for actionable strategies and real stories, or check out the show notes for extra resources.Action Steps You Can Take Now:Assess your current habits: Are you prioritizing family time, or has travel slowly shifted your priorities without you realizing?Plan periodic “relationship audits” and ask, “What do we want to be known for as a family?”Engage with your community and seek feedback—sometimes, an outside perspective helps us see what we’re missing.Remember, investing in family connection now leads to stronger relationships in the long term—don’t wait until retirement to find out you’ve drifted apart!It’s never too late to make positive changes—intentionality and communication go a very long way.Contact Ian OrtonBy Email at: pcc4u2@gmail.comIan’s Counselling Directory Page https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/counsellors/ian-ortonContact Rhoda: rhoda@amulticulturallife.comReceive news regularly on new episodes of HTFA Podcast and on new events and resources. Subscribe to my newsletter.Buy the book: Holding the Fort AbroadYour partner's job opportunity in another country seemed like an exciting idea, but lengthy work assignments mean you're holding down the family fort - alone.OR Your partner is working and living in another country, and you feel like you are shouldering all the home responsibilities alone.You may be wondering:How can we be a family when we're miles apart?Can I cope, alone, when troubles arise?I believe there are answers to the above questions, and the answers start with you. In this context, it's more important than ever to invest in yourself, to care for yourself, to set your own goals and to watch yourself grow. Equally important is to nurture your relationship with your partner and learn to parent together.

Synopsis:Ever wondered how your childhood wounds impact your relationships? Today my guest is Bryan Power. He is the founder of make your relationship fail and a certified integrated attachment theory coach. We look at integrated attachment theory together, what it is, how it can be useful for our relationships, and specifically then looking at how it works where there is geographical separation. 3 key takeaways:Attachment Styles Shape Every Relationship: Whether you’re anxious, avoidant, or secure, understanding your own and your partner’s attachment style is crucial for better communication and connection (especially if you’re miles apart!).“If I believe this person doesn't love me, this person is going to leave me, I'm going to be left here alone to deal with the family, the kids, they're never coming home. Those are the stories I'm telling myself that are taking my emotional bandwidth and just throwing it through the roof. Now I'm again, I'm at an emotional level 10. Instead of just being able to relax and say, hey, my spouse loves me, we're in this situation. They're away from me a little bit, but I know he loves me. I know she loves me. I know that we're okay. I know that this time away is just time that we're going to have to deal with a little bit on our own and. And someday we're going to be able to have that full time together. You're able to relax in that.”Healing Starts with Self-Awareness: “Fixing” a relationship often begins with working on yourself—identifying your personal wounds, triggers, and stories you’re telling yourself. The more aware you are, the healthier your connections become. Some of the wounds could be fear of abandonment, fear of losing independence, fear of being trapped, feeling unsafe. *When my emotions are really high, it's a really good time to say, why do I feel this way? What is it? What is it that I'm really afraid of here?”Distance Can Be an Opportunity: Time apart isn’t just a challenge—it’s a chance to foster growth, both individually and as a couple. Investing in relationship tools and self-development during these periods pays dividends when you’re reunited.“How can I look at this and say, okay, why am I so triggered? What are my core wounds that are causing me to be maybe overly sensitive to these things? And then begin to work on those. Because as we work on those wounds now, I'm going to be a little bit more okay with some distance. I don't have to call 10 times a day. Maybe I could call once or twice. I can now find a little bit better balance that actually works for both sides. Because if you're super needy like that, let's face it, the other person you're going to drive them crazy at some point.”The key is to find a balance. So how can I, as the anxious person not be so needy to where I can handle a lot of my needs myself? I don't have to be worried about my spouse constantly. On the flip side, as a dismissive how can I be sensitive to my spouse and realize that they may need a little bit more attention than I do at this point and I don't have to call them 10 times a day, but that one phone call a day could be that one great call that helps my spouse find some emotional connection and be able to regulate and be able to kind of feel good about this situation. Because if we just take it as a dismissive avoidant and we just poo poo the whole thing and just act like, oh, you're just being overly sensitive or overly needy, that doesn't really validate the other person at all. And it really makes them feel disconnected and unloved and unwanted, and it actually causes more and more anxiety. So you're actually triggering that. You actually could be triggering that even more for that person.”Visit Bryan Power’s website makeyourrelationshipfail.com for a free attachment style quiz. Through his website you can access personal coaching, pursue self-guided learning and join Thais Gibson’s Personal Development School. Thais Gibson interview with Mel Robbins - integrated attachment theory Contact Rhoda: rhoda@amulticulturallife.comReceive news regularly on new episodes of HTFA Podcast and on new events and resources. Subscribe to my newsletter.Buy the book: Holding the Fort AbroadYour partner's job opportunity in another country seemed like an exciting idea, but lengthy work assignments mean you're holding down the family fort - alone.OR Your partner is working and living in another country, and you feel like you are shouldering all the home responsibilities alone.You may be wondering:How can we be a family when we're miles apart?Can I cope, alone, when troubles arise?I believe there are answers to the above questions, and the answers start with you. In this context, it's more important than ever to invest in yourself, to care for yourself, to set your own goals and to watch yourself grow. Equally important is to nurture your relationship with your partner and learn to parent together.

Synopsis:“My conclusion is that at the end of the day, what matters is the strategies that couples use to navigate the stress. And this is sort of then what mediates between the stressors and the couple's satisfaction.” In this episode, Julia Paulsson Jandl and I talk about the findings of her research in the aid and development sector: the challenges couples face and the strategies that they use. She is a seasoned humanitarian and development specialist, a relationship counselor and coach. She has just finished her Masters Thesis on couple satisfaction in that sector.. Interestingly, 12% of participants were in split location situations and 24% alternated so we delved into this aspect too. Her insights are useful not just for aid-sector families, but for anyone navigating high-mobility or long-distance relationship challenges.Key Takeaways: Julia Paulsson’s research emphasises that while the pressures of aid work and split location create unique challenges, satisfaction and relational resilience are possible through intentionality, open communication, creative rituals, and mutual respect for each partner’s individuality. The common thread is not the absence of challenge, but the presence of agreed-upon strategies to keep the relationship - and both individuals - healthy.1. Specific Strategies from the Study: Making Relationships WorkJulia’s research didn’t just dwell on the challenges; it also lifted out practical, evidence-backed strategies that resilient couples use, which can be helpful whether you’re living in the same place or miles apart:A. Commitment as Active PracticeCouples emphasized “commitment as an anchor”—it’s not passive but an ongoing, active choice (“minute by minute decision”) to show up, protect your partner’s interests, and maintain fairness and respect.B. Prioritizing Both Individuality and the CoupleResilient couples pursue both individual and shared goals. Making intentional space for each partner’s dreams, interests, and career ambitions—even if not realized at the same time—was key to long-term satisfaction and avoiding resentment.C. Intentional Boundaries and “Rules”Many couples developed rules and agreements to manage the intersection between demanding aid work and personal life. Examples included:Agreed limits on time apart (for split location couples: “maximum amount of time we are willing to be apart”)Family guidelines about what types of duty stations or posts were acceptable (“veto rules”)Minimum standards for things like schooling or healthcare access for the accompanying familyRituals to prioritize couple time-such as trying to be home for dinner or bedtime when possible, even if exceptions ariseD. Communication and Difficult ConversationsSuccessful couples had learned how to tackle difficult discussions directly—about moves, career priorities, and unmet needs—while being open to influence and willing to negotiate.E. Drawing From the Gottman “Six Magic Hours” ApproachJulia shared research-based recommendations rooted in the Gottman method:Partings and Reunions: Mindful transitions whether in daily routines or returning after periods apart—using messages, video notes, or rituals to connect even when physically distant.Appreciation and Admiration: Actively express positive observations, using messages or journals, to counterbalance negativity bias.Affection: This can be a challenge at a distance, but couples find creative ways (sharing clothing, sending heartbeats using smartwatches, or even virtual hugs).Date Nights: Don’t have to be dinner out—could be a virtual movie, shared meal via video, or just a dedicated walk-and-talk.State of the Union Check-Ins: Regular reviews—not just to surface grievances but to celebrate successes and keep in tune with each other even in asynchronous time zones.Repair Attempts: Learning the art of reconciliation after disagreements, and recognizing that “every couple under the sun fights”—the difference is how you reconnect.F. Flexibility and SeasonalityCouples acknowledged there will be seasons where one partner’s career might take precedence, but this should rotate and never be permanently lopsided.2. Split Location Relationships in the Aid SectorJulia Paulsson’s research looked deeply at couples, including those navigating split location arrangements, within the humanitarian and development sector. About 36% of her respondents lived in split locations either permanently or alternated between periods together and apart. The findings were illuminating in several ways:A. Relationship SatisfactionContrary to common assumptions, her study found that couples living apart in split locations had comparable levels of relationship satisfaction to those who always lived together. Julia emphasized that “being in different locations in itself does not predict relationship satisfaction.” The structure of the relationship (together or apart) isn’t as significant as how the couple actually manages the distance and accompanying stressors.B. TerminologyParticipants described “split location” in various ways—using terms like “long distance,” “different locations,” or simply “alternating living arrangements.”C. Unique StressorsIn split setups, the lines between work and personal life can become even more blurred. Without a partner physically present to encourage boundaries (“hey, log off your emails”), aid workers reported it was easy for professional demands to consume all aspects of life.D. Physical Affection While ApartThis area is particularly challenging; couples find substitute strategies (e.g., sending personal items, digital touchpoints, or creative technology use), but nothing fully replaces physical closeness.E. Impact on Both PartnersWhether the non-aid-working spouse accompanied their partner or stayed behind, both scenarios could intensify challenges around identity, financial dependence, stalled careers, and emotional strain. Julia points out, “your life is being colonized by your partner's job” resonated strongly with many.F. Gender DynamicsWomen who were the primary traveler or aid worker faced additional scrutiny, stigma, and challenges around balancing caregiving, with research noting lower rates of marriage and children among female aid workers.Articles and Resources mentioned in this episode Gottman’s magic hours Download free pdf Loneliness like smoking 15 cigarettes a day Dr Julianne Holt-Lunstad Are women paying a higher price for a UN career? Henrik Ryden HTFA Episode #72 Visit Julia’s website - www.juliapaulsson.comContact Rhoda: rhoda@amulticulturallife.comReceive news regularly on new episodes of HTFA Podcast and on new events and resources. Subscribe to my newsletter.Buy the book: Holding the Fort AbroadYour partner's job opportunity in another country seemed like an exciting idea, but lengthy work assignments mean you're holding down the family fort - alone.OR Your partner is working and living in another country, and you feel like you are shouldering all the home responsibilities alone.You may be wondering:How can we be a family when we're miles apart?Can I cope, alone, when troubles arise?I believe there are answers to the above questions, and the answers start with you. In this context, it's more important than ever to invest in yourself, to care for yourself, to set your own goals and to watch yourself grow. Equally important is to nurture your relationship with your partner and learn to parent together.

This is a quick announcement to let any new listeners know that I traditionally do not publish new episodes in August. It gives me a chance to pause a bit and it also gives you the opportunity to listen to previous episodes, especially if you can only listen to one every so often. You can search the episodes by topic on my website rhodabangerter.com/podcast for example mums who travel or transitions or split location. There will be more episodes in French as an opportunity arises. I record them. They are numbered F1,F2 etcIf you are with the kids on summer holidays alone then episode 50 is for you with a reminder to make memories and make the time work for you too not just for your kids.I'm grateful this year to have been ranked #35/100 in Feedspot's 100 best expat podcasts. It's a great recognition of the impact of the podcast and also of what we are living when geographical separation or a parent travels for work As a family, we are on another split location. I can't give you as many details as last time when I wrote a whole book about it but rest assured I am taking notes and will share when possible. Especially now as we live it with teenagers.If you haven't signed up for my newsletter then you can go to the link. This will keep you informed of new episodes and new resources coming out. Remember wherever you are, wherever your partner is you are not alone. Buy the book: Holding the Fort Abroad

Synopsis:As the spouse of a World bank executive for over 30 years, Daniela Draugelis has experienced firsthand the unique challenges and growth that come with raising a family while navigating extended work travel, often more than 100 days a year. Daniela is an intercultural trainer, a certified professional coach and cultural intelligence facilitator with over 20 years of experience living and working across cultures. Today, she helps expats, diplomats and internationally mobile families thrive through coaching and training that blends cultural intelligence, energy, leadership, and deep personal insight.In the children’s early years, Daniela’s husband was absent for periods of travel lasting 4-5 weeks, repeated absences from when children were newborns to age six or seven. Later years: transition to more local/domestic weekly travel; changes in family rhythm Emotional and Practical Impact of Early Years Absences Daniela’s experience of isolation: living outside her home country, lack of support system, balancing professional life, childcare, and household responsibilities during husband’s absences.Impact of child’s health condition (breath holding spells) on couple’s decision that Daniela would pause her career to focus on her child’s health. Importance of local friendships and informal support networks Examples of reaching out to neighbors for help (especially during illness) Using calendars and stickers to help young children understand the duration of absences Rituals for departure and return: airport drop-offs/pick-ups as a family routine. Managing children’s expectations and emotions around time and connectionBrief conversations with young children. Mainly Daniela’s husband consistently made the effort to be involved with children’s lives and to never miss major milestonesNavigating Reentry and Shifting Dynamics Jet lag and fatigue upon returnChallenges for Daniela switching between solo-parenting and co-parenting Maintaining authority and involvement for both parentsEstablishing and Preserving Father-Child Bonds Deliberate decision to let “fishing” be a special dad-and-children activity Creating unique touchpoints for father-child connection that persist into adulthoodChildren’s current relationships with their fatherstrong bondsno lasting resentment In children’s older years, the rhythm of travel changed. Availability of household help, school routines, and after-school activities easing stress for DanielaFocus on family time during reunions, sometimes at the expense of couple time Reflection on the need for intentional couple routines and conversation Challenges in maintaining both professional and marital identities for Daniela Daniela’s return to Personal and Professional FulfillmentVolunteering, skill-building, and staying engaged while not formally employed Transition into new career as a coach and intercultural facilitator Hindsight and Lessons Learned Wish for more guidance and support in earlier years The value of not feeling alone, and building routines for smoother transitions Importance of discussing changes and keeping the traveling partner updated on family life Resources mentioned in this episode: The ICAN Model, developed by Dr Ken Canfield stands for Intentional Involvement, Consistency, Awareness, Nurturing, This model works well for parenting at a distance and can be supported by both parents. Read more about it here How the ICAN Model Helps Families Stay Connected When One Parent Travels - Rhoda BangerterHow to contact Daniela Draugelis Connect with her on LinkedInVisit her website: Cultural Pathways Receive news regularly on new episodes of HTFA Podcast and on new events and resources. Subscribe to my newsletter.Buy the book: Holding the Fort AbroadYour partner's job opportunity in another country seemed like an exciting idea, but lengthy work assignments mean you're holding down the family fort - alone.OR Your partner is working and living in another country, and you feel like you are shouldering all the home responsibilities alone.You may be wondering:How can we be a family when we're miles apart?Can I cope, alone, when troubles arise?I believe there are answers to the above questions, and the answers start with you. In this context, it's more important than ever to invest in yourself, to care for yourself, to set your own goals and to watch yourself grow. Equally important is to nurture your relationship with your partner and learn to parent together.

Synopsis:Karlijn Jacobs supports organisations to enhance the success of international relocations through a family centered approach. She is the world's first ombudsperson for international children and families.Today we're going to be speaking about what she does at Expat Valley, and we're also going to hear a bit of her story of a time when her husband was away for work. Highlights from today’s episode: Moving to Shanghai with the whole family - navigating change and maintaining both careers. Taking the decision together. The importance of supporting families for a successful expatriation Karlijn’s and her husband’s experience of commuting. What led to the decision for Karlijn’s husband to commute to another country. ‘this was a good way to move forward…in the beginning, we thought we were getting the best of both worlds. My husband could progress his career and I would be home with the kids, close to our extended family and friends in the place that we wanted them to grow up. But, oh boy. 22:58 - 23:14Underestimating repatriationAdapting to the new setup: leaving on Tuesdays and returning on Thursdays eveningsThe context matters as well: how many transitions are you going through at the same time: Birth, move, new job, repatriation? “I think it was really only after a year or so that it was fully dawning on us that we signed up for something that was a lot more complicated than we anticipated.” (23:55)Open ended commuting assignments are harder “We realized that we signed up for something that we weren't going to make disappear. Like that was there, that was part of our normal routine. It wasn't a matter of investing time and energy and then you can finish that part 26:47 - 27:00The difficulty of setting up a business at the same time (the first attempt at establishing a business with two children under 3, her husband commuting and Karlijn blaming herself and feeling she was failing as a parent)The shifting between being 3 to being 4 people at the week-ends “the family dynamics, that would just change twice a week. Like it would drive all four of us nuts…for me to make that shift every so many days, that was exhausting.” 33:07 - 33:32Understanding that ‘split location’ comes with common challengesIf you have people who can help ‘and they're only a phone call away, then pick up the phone, ask for help, protect your own sanity. Embrace that you don't have to do it all by yourself and take all the help you can get up there. 38:53 - 39:12What stopped Karlijn from asking for help: used to being independent feeling she should be able to do it yourselfnot wanting to be a burden“if you really want to hold on to these beliefs, then don't sign up for it (commuting or split family assignment), because you can't do this all by yourself.” 38:01- 38:09“I could have been so much more relaxed with myself as opposed to setting the bar really high, pretending that we were a normal family and then not, not succeeding because of all sorts of self imposed goals and objectives.” 40:15 - 40:30Commuting with little children: transition times and colour coded calendarsAsk Karlijn anything about Successful Family Relocation Experiences in a 15-min call: https://calendly.com/expatvalley/ask-me-anythingemail: karlijn@expatvalley.comweb: www.expatvalley.com Receive news regularly on new episodes of HTFA Podcast and on new events and resources. Subscribe to my newsletter.Your partner's job opportunity in another country seemed like an exciting idea, but lengthy work assignments mean you're holding down the family fort - alone.OR Your partner is working and living in another country, and you feel like you are shouldering all the home responsibilities alone.You may be wondering:How can we be a family when we're miles apart?Can I cope, alone, when troubles arise?I believe there are answers to the above questions, and the answers start with you. In this context, it's more important than ever to invest in yourself, to care for yourself, to set your own goals and to watch yourself grow. Equally important is to nurture your relationship with your partner and learn to parent together.Buy the book: Holding the Fort Abroad