How Brands Are Built

In this episode of How Brands Are Built, I talk with Alexander Foss about research—why it matters, what makes it valuable, and a few pitfalls to avoid. Alex and I first worked together at Interbrand, where he was on the strategy team before moving more deeply into research and insights. In our conversation, he explains what pulled him in that direction: the feeling of backing up recommendations with something stronger than a "finger in the air." We talk about the shift from agency work to client-side research, and how different it is when you're responsible not just for delivering against a brief, but for defining the business problem in the first place. A big theme throughout the episode is purpose. Alex makes the point repeatedly: research should start with a clear question. If you don't know why you're conducting a survey, for example—what decisions it's meant to inform—you probably shouldn't be doing it. We also dig into a naming research study I conducted last year—research on research—and the tensions it revealed between how namers and researchers think about the topic. Why are experienced namers often skeptical of quantitative testing? Which methodologies do namers and researchers recommend? And how much influence should research have over a naming decision versus other important factors? Alex argues that research should inform decisions, but not make them. He uses the analogy of buying a house: you can quantify square footage and energy efficiency, but at some point you also have to decide whether it feels right. Naming is similar. Quantified consumer reactions matter, but they're just one input. Finally, we discuss updating the research section of Designing Brand Identity, sixth edition, and what young strategists can do to build real expertise in a world where AI can handle more and more of the executional work. If you care about branding, naming, or research—and especially if you've ever struggled with how much weight to give the numbers—this conversation will give you a clearer framework for thinking about it.

A few weeks back, on LinkedIn and Instagram, I asked whether anyone had questions about branding, naming, or other topics I might be able to speak to. My plan was to do a Q&A episode—and this is it. On this episode, I answer questions from branding professionals and others about branding, naming, and book publishing. Here's a sample of what was asked: How do you manage clients wanting to wordsmith your brand strategy work? What guidance should you give clients to help them implement your recommended brand strategy? How do you maintain brand consistency when people at your company won't use design templates? What is the current state of AI in naming? How can you attract new clients if you can't show your work online due to an NDA? Can you walk through the book publishing process? Here are links to a few things mentioned during the episode: Brand Naming Designing Brand Identity, sixth edition David Placek, founder of Lexicon, on an early episode of the StartUp podcast AI-powered naming agency, Monika Tessera Trademark Screening Brand implementation agencies TenTen, Monigle, and BrandActive Clutch (B2B company reviews) Swiss Cheese Mono font Ohno Type School with James Edmondson Thanks to everyone for your questions. If you have questions that I didn't answer, please reach out—maybe I'll do another one of these episodes at some point.

Today's guest is Alex Center, a designer and podcaster and founder of the award-winning design and branding studio, CENTER. From 2006 to 2017, Center worked for the Coca-Cola Company, helping build the brands Vitaminwater, Powerade, and Smartwater. Today, he and the team at CENTER are building the next generation of icon brands partnering with companies like United Sodas of America, Apple, HEYWEAR, Good Light, New Balance, SIMULATE, and Liquid Death. One of the reasons I wanted to talk to Alex today is because his agency, CENTER, is a contributor to the new edition of Designing Brand Identity. CENTER pitched in on the pages about package design and differentiation, and also contributed a case study for KatKin, "a nutrition, education, and community-focused cat-care brand based in the UK that works with world-leading veterinarians and nutritionists to develop food that gives cats the nutrients they actually need." We talk about these cases, how Alex approaches branding and package design, and more on this episode of the podcast.

Back in February of this year, I released the first Brand Names Report, an analysis of polling data on brand names from Brand New, the leading brand identity review site edited and written by Armin Vit. From July 2020 to June 2023, visitors to Brand New cast a total of 22,769 votes across 131 brand names, rating each as Great, Fine, or Bad. These polls are the only easily available opinion data on brand names that I'm aware of. And while the data is far from perfect (I'll walk through some weaknesses on this episode), I wanted to see whether it could tell us anything useful about which brand names are preferred, and why. To see the report as I walk through it page by page, visit How Brands Are Built on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@howbrandsarebuilt. You can download the the Brand Names Report for free at https://howbrandsarebuilt.com/brandnamesreport/.

Today's guest is Rob Goodman. Rob specializes in content strategy and creative content production, with experience at companies like Google, Wix, and Webflow. He's delivered award-winning branded content, content strategies, and comprehensive content calendars for these companies and other clients, helping brands transform into publishers built for engaging today's audiences. Rob also hosts his own podcast, Making Ways, about the intersection of art and music. He interviews bands, like Melvins and Nada Surf, and the visual artists they collaborate with to create album art, music videos, and more. It's as cool as it sounds—I highly recommend you check it out. One of the reasons I wanted to talk to Rob is because he's also a contributor to the new edition of Designing Brand Identity, which I co-authored with the late Alina Wheeler. Rob pitched in on the pages about social media and a few others, but his biggest contribution was helping us update the content strategy spread, where you'll find the following quote from him: "The best content cuts through the noise, connects with customers, and drives the business—all while moving at the speed of culture." On the episode, we talk about definitions of terms like content strategy, content planning, and content production. We dive into the different objectives of content strategy, and Rob shares some high-level process tips for creating great content. We also run through Jonah Berger's six "STEPPS" to viral content, and Rob shares his take on a few of them. To learn more about Rob Goodman, visit robgoodman.com or find him on LinkedIn. You can listen to his Making Ways podcast at makingways.co. And if you're interested in the sixth edition of Designing Brand Identity, find it on Amazon or at dbibook.com.

Diego Segura is a design apprentice at Collins, an independent strategy and brand experience design company with offices in New York City and San Francisco. In this episode, Diego describes how he discovered graphic design, his decision to drop out of high school, and what it's like being an apprentice at a prestigious branding and design company. This is the second part of a two-part series; the episode begins with a continuation of my conversation with Brian Collins in part one. Brian shares his side of Diego's story—how Diego first got in touch, how he became a full-time employee, and why, on one of their early days together, Brian took him out to run errands throughout New York City. After a short intro from Brian, the interview with Diego begins. I was eager to get Diego's backstory—it's fascinating (and inspiring) to hear how he got from a small town outside Austin, Texas to Collins in New York City. Along the way, he emailed with Michael Beirut, did multiple remote internships, and wrote The Dropout Manifesto (a chronicle of [my] crazy junior year). We also talked about the importance of agencies and design studios looking outside the traditional design schools, like SVA and RISD—schools Diego wasn't even aware of when he was in high school—for new talent. I'm telling you now: If I was out to start a studio today, I would practically build it solely on young ambitious people led by a really great creative director, head of design. Because the level of talent who reaches out to me personally, because they see I'm the design apprentice on the [Collins] website—the level of talent is insane. They are so, so, so good. ... There's no doubt they can add value. It's just, they didn't come from the same places that all the other designers came from, and we've gotta be okay with that." – Diego Segura To learn more about Collins visit their website. You can learn more about Diego (and see some of his work) at diegosegura.me and you can follow him on Twitter. If you're interested in checking out Diego's book, The Dropout Manifesto, it's available on Amazon, as is his second book, To a Man Much Like Myself.

Nirm Shanbhag is the Chief Strategy Officer of Sid Lee USA, an international creative company. He's also my old boss. Back in 2012, he was running the San Francisco office of Interbrand, and he hired me as Director of Verbal Identity. Before Interbrand, Nirm earned his MBA from London Business School and worked in advertising, at firms like Mullen and McCann. He also ran his own, independent agency, Notch Strategy, for about six years between his roles at Interbrand and Sid Lee. Nirm and I have worked together quite a bit—first at Interbrand, then as independent consultants. We've been called in on brand architecture projects a few times, and Nirm is one of just a handful of people I consider an expert on the topic. Since I haven't had too many (any) episodes focused on brand architecture, I was eager to get Nirm to share some of his insights into brand architecture—what it is, why it matters, and how it should be done. Throughout the conversation, Nirm came back time and again to the idea of keeping the consumer's journey front and center, considering their motivations and approaches to decision-making. We also talked about brand purpose, and whether brands are good or bad for society (heady stuff). At the end of the conversation, Nirm recommended two very different books: The Experience Economy ("a seminal work and … one that not a lot of people know about") and A Brief History of Time, by Stephen Hawking. I've probably read [A Brief History of Time] four times in my life. The reason I think it's worthwhile is because, yeah, it's about physics, but at its heart it's a book about perspective and recognizing that your perspective can change." – Nirm Shanbhag To learn more about Nirm and Sid Lee, visit sidlee.com. I also recommend you check out some of Nirm's blog posts on the Notch blog.

Today's guest is Armin Vit, co-founder of UnderConsideration, a graphic design firm, and editor and writer for Brand New, the leading site for reviews of corporate and brand identity design work. Born and raised in Mexico City, Armin—along with his wife and partner, Bryony Gomez-Palacio—have created multiple other design blogs, co-authored books, and organized events like the annual Brand New Conference. I was excited to talk to Armin about design trends, blogging, and the pros and cons of being a professional critic. The conversation started with some ancient history, going back to a blog called "Speak Up," and FutureBrand's 2003 redesign of Paul Rand's UPS logo, which gave rise to Brand New. I asked Armin how he selects which work to review on Brand New, and he said he has a "little grid" in his mind. The more people are likely to be familiar with the client, the more likely he is to write about the work. If the client is small and unknown, the work has to be groundbreaking. Much of the work he sees is "fine"—but work that's just fine is actually less interesting than work that's terrible. I meet other designers [that] will joke that they are always wondering ... what I might say. They're always thinking about, 'Oh shit, I hope this doesn't make it on Brand New. Or if it does, I hope it goes fine.' It just increases that level of stress ... but in a positive way that I have to make sure that what I'm saying is valuable to as many people as possible and doesn't put down anyone just for the sake of it. Armin Vit Armin and I went on to talk about a design trend he's seen lately: a stampede of wordmarks featuring geometric sans fonts, like Airbnb and Google, and the backlash against them, epitomized by the Chobani logotype. Next, we discussed how design and branding can make a positive impact on the world, his experience as a Mexican-American immigrant and how it influences his thinking as a designer—especially given some of the Trump administration's rhetoric and policies toward immigrants and Mexico in particular. I asked Armin for an example of some work he's seen that's making a positive impact, and he mentioned IBM's "Be Equal" campaign, which repurposes a bee designed for IBM by Paul Rand, highlighting an equals sign in its stripes. To close out, I asked for Armin's book recommendations (he likes Branding: In Five and a Half Steps, by Michael Johnson) and his advice for young designers and people in the branding industry: "Look at a lot of brand design ... It's really about building your palate for identity design, how colors work, how typefaces work. It's not about copying anything, but taking bits of pieces from different places, and how you will apply that to your own lens, to your clients, or to your work. It's consuming a lot of identity design and letting it simmer in your subconscious." But honestly, he says, that's not just a pitch for Brand New. To learn more about Armin, visit UnderConsideration, from which you can find Brand New as well as design work by Armin and Bryony, books they've written, like Flaunt, and events like the Brand New Conference.

In this episode, I'm talking to Dava Guthmiller, founder and Chief Creative Officer at Noise 13, a brand strategy and design agency based in San Francisco. She's also cofounder of In/Visible Talks, and annual conference that celebrates the art of design and creativity, and In/Visible Project, which includes a collection of other events that bring people together over the process, inspiration, and challenges for design and creative professionals. Throughout the conversation, we touched on diversity in the worlds of design and branding. I asked Dava what it was like to start Noise 13 as a young, female designer, and how In/Visible Talks is giving a platform to a racially diverse and heavily female-leaning group of speakers. Next, we got into the weeds a bit on how Dava built the In/Visible Talks brand. She told me where the name came from and how the visual identity for year one involved a trip to the dollar store. We rounded out the conversation, as we often do on the podcast, with book recommendations and advice for young professionals in the branding and design industry. Dava recommended The Empathy Edge by Maria Ross (see Maria's post on How Brands Are Built) and Marty Neumeier's Brand Flip. And she had several pieces of advice for young designers, including encouragement to try many different internships and jobs until you find the best fit: "Take internships. Find a mentor. Try it on. Try a small company. Try in-house. Try something big. This is your life. This is your job. Find the right project team fit for you, so that your life is not miserable." To learn more about Dava, visit Noise 13 or In/Visible Talks. The annual conference will be on Jan 14, 2021, and early bird tickets are on sale now.

On June 11, 2020, Rob (creator and host of How Brands Are Built) joined Ilya Lobanov of Studeo on Instagram Live for a chat about brand strategy and naming. Ilya is an Australia-based designer and strategist who teaches multiple branding classes (available on his site and Skillshare). Given Ilya's design background and Rob's naming experience, the conversation often covered similarities between design and naming. This special episode features the entire IG Live conversation (including live comments from viewers, which Ilya occasionally reads out loud). The episode is also available on IGTV and as a YouTube video. If you like the interview, follow Ilya on Instagram (@wearestudeo), where he's also interviewed designers and branding experts like Michael Janda and Reagan (Frank) Mackrill of G'Day Frank.

Today's episode features a rare repeat guest: none other than David Aaker, Professor Emeritus at the Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley, Vice-Chair at Prophet, a global marketing and branding consultancy, and prolific author of books and articles about branding. Last time David was on the podcast, we talked about two of his books, Aaker on Branding, 20 Principles that Drive Success, and Creating Signature Stories. We also talked at length about his brand vision model. If you're interested in hearing that longer conversation with "the Father of Modern Branding," go take a listen. This time, we're talking about David's newest book, Owning Game-Changing Subcategories: Uncommon Growth in the Digital Age. The premise of the book is that the only way for a business or brand to grow (with rare exceptions) is "to create or find 'must haves' that define whole new subcategories that can attract a loyal customer following." During the conversation, David explains where he got the idea for the book, what he means by terms like "game-changing subcategory" and "must haves," and how digital has changed everything. He also illustrates his ideas through examples like Dollar Shave Club, Apple, and Airbnb. At the end of the conversation, David provides one final piece of advice to business owners and brand managers: "Look for opportunities to create subcategory platforms—new ways [of] looking at what the customer is using and their relationship with the brand. And when you see one, think long and hard before you turn your back on it. ... Take some risks and make some investments, make some commitments. Because that's really the only way to grow."

For the second mini episode of the podcast, I'm talking to Brad Flowers, founding partner of Bullhorn, a marketing company in Lexington, Kentucky. Brad is also the author of a new book entitled, The Naming Book: 5 steps to creating brand and product names that sell. Regular listeners know that naming is an area of focus for me, so when I heard about Brad's book, I couldn't want to read it and ask him a few questions. We started out talking about how there aren't too many books about naming out there (here's a list, which now includes Brad's). Brad wrote his book because he'd had trouble early in his career finding something that documented a replicable process for his team. The five steps Brad recommends are: Establishing Criteria Brainstorming Compiling Names Expanding Your Knowledge Deciding on the Final Name Within each step, Brad includes short worksheets and exercises. One that I especially like comes right at the beginning, when he asks readers to pick any three brand names and post-rationalize where the names came from. Brad says it "gives someone the opportunity to take a step back and start to just recognize the names that exist and how they're working, so that when you start to think about your name, you can understand that while Apple seems like a great name, on day one it felt like a really risky, and probably a pretty dumb name, really." We rounded out the conversation talking about the benefits of sometimes going "off brief," how to ask other people their opinion on name ideas, and Brad's favorite naming story (involving his five-year-old son). To learn more about The Naming Book, visit thenamingbook.com. It's available now on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and IndieBound.org. To learn more about Brad and Bullhorn, visit BullhornCreative.com, or find them on social media.

Season three of the podcast featured my most wide-ranging conversations yet. I talked to guests about topics such as naming, social influence, and fusing brand and culture. Like last season, I talked to a mix of popular authors and speakers, like Jeremy Miller and Denise Lee Yohn, as well as some people I've worked with closely at agencies like Interbrand, Siegel+Gale, and BrandingBusiness. Thank you to all my guests this season: Jeremy Miller, founder of Sticky Branding; author of Sticky Branding and Brand New Name Ken Pasternak, president of Two by Four (formerly president and COO of Marshall Strategy) Fabian Geyrhalter, principal and founder of FINIEN; author of How to Launch a Brand and Bigger Than This Caren Williams, independent brand consultant Dennis Hahn, Chief Strategy Officer at Liquid Agency Ana Andjelic, strategy executive; PhD in sociology Alan Brew, founding partner at BrandingBusiness Myra El-Bayoumi, strategy director at Character Denise Lee Yohn, brand leadership expert; author of What Great Brands Do and Fusion Thank you, too, for listening, sharing your thoughts, following along the website, social media, and the newsletter. The theme of this season, broadly speaking, was brand experience. In this wrap-up episode, I walk through what a brand experience is and how to create or improve one. First off, how should we define brand experience? About a year ago, before this season started, I posted the following definition: "The totality of all sensations, feelings, thoughts, and actions evoked by a brand." That pretty much aligns with other definitions I've seen from the likes of Marty Neumeier. (His, from The Dictionary of Brand, is "All the interactions people have with a product, service, or organization.") The episode kicks off with Ken Pasternak and Caren Williams each going into detail on how they think about brand experience. Next, we get to the four steps for creating (or strengthening) a brand experience. Sounds simple, but each step requires some serious work. In the episode, each step is fleshed out and supported with audio clips from the season's interviews. Four steps to create or improve a brand experience Get the brand strategy right (should a strategy platform include experience principles?) Outline the context within which the brand will be experienced (e.g., customer journey mapping) Brainstorm ideas for the brand experience (often takes place in a collaborative work session with the client) Implement, measure, and modify (organize ideas by impact/effort, mock up or prototype ideas, and always be iterating) To learn more about brand experience and the guests from season three, listen to each full episode or read transcripts on HowBrandsAreBuilt.com. You'll also find a growing list of books recommended by guests this season and last. Thanks again, especially to those of you who've subscribed, left a rating or review, or connected on social media. If you haven't done those things already, please do-I really appreciate the support!