How to Lead with Clay Scroggins and Adam Tarnow

What makes a leader unforgettable? In this episode, Adam and Clay reflect on a quiet moment in an airport lounge with former Home Depot CEO Frank Blake—and what it revealed about the kind of leadership that truly lasts. Instead of holding court, Blake was asking questions, listening intently, and showing up with presence. They break down three simple (but rare) behaviors: staying curious when it’s easier to assume, showing up with presence instead of position, and building a legacy through small, consistent actions that make people feel seen. You’ll walk away challenged to lead like Frank Blake—not by being loud, but by being curious.

“this is not a fulfilling life”"why do I want to win this tournament so bad?"This is the paradox of Scottie Scheffler and there is something for all of us to learn.

“What Gen Z and Millennials Really Want From Their Leaders”(And why it’s probably not a ping-pong table)Today’s younger workforce isn’t just looking for a paycheck or a trendy office perk. Gen Z and millennials want something deeper: meaningful work, balanced lives, and leaders they can actually trust.In this episode, Clay and Adam unpack the latest findings from the Deloitte Global 2025 survey — revealing what these generations really expect from leadership and why many companies are missing the mark.Four surprising insights we dig into:1️⃣ Well-being Isn’t a Perk — It’s the PointMore than half of Gen Zs and nearly half of millennials say they’re anxious or stressed most of the time. They expect leaders to talk about mental health and model healthier work rhythms.2️⃣ Purpose MattersOver 60% have turned down work that clashes with their values. They want leaders who act like stewards, not just managers chasing numbers.3️⃣ Flexibility and Belonging Beat PrestigeCareer growth isn’t just about climbing ladders — it’s about feeling seen, included, and trusted with real flexibility.4️⃣ Growth is the New LoyaltyThey’ll stick with leaders who invest in them. Over half have left roles due to a lack of development or career progression.Throughout the episode, Clay and Adam share honest stories about the leaders who made them feel safe, seen, and stretched — and how today’s managers can do the same without burning themselves out.Closing challenge:If you lead anyone under 40, ask yourself: Am I creating a culture that supports well-being, lives out real values, and gives people a reason to stay?More importantly: Would you want to work for you?

Middle management gets a bad rap: too much pressure, not enough power, and none of the credit. But what if we’ve misunderstood its purpose all along?In this episode, we reframe the middle—not as a corporate purgatory, but as a vital proving ground. You’ll discover why this role is more than a rung on the ladder—it’s a shaping season that builds vision, resilience, and sound judgment.We’ll explore:Why the role is misunderstood (and unfairly maligned)How the valley of middle management forms you—not just frustrates youWhere the role is headed in the future—from manager to wayfinderKey takeaway: Stop trying to escape the middle. Start learning from it.Challenge: Ask yourself: How is this season shaping me into the leader I’m becoming?About Clay Scroggins: Clay Scroggins is a sought-after ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠speaker and leadership coach⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠known for his practical and engaging approach to leadership. He is the author of three books, most notably ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How to Lead When You're Not In Charge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. With a passion for helping leaders thrive in any environment, Clay brings valuable insights and real-world experience to this podcast and his ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠weekly email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more at ClayScroggins.comAbout Adam Tarnow: Adam Tarnow is a recovering CPA and now a partner at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PeopleWorks International⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where he heads the Leadership Development Practice. He is the co-author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Edge: How to Stand Out by Showing You're All In⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and shares his insights on leadership through his Substack, Beyond the Obvious. Learn more at AdamTarnow.com

Peter Drucker once wrote, “For development is always self-development.” In this episode, we unpack why that simple idea might be the most overlooked (and freeing) truth in the professional world.Clay and Adam explore:Why so many people wait to be “developed” by their company or managerThe real reasons we resist taking initiativeWhat self-development actually looks like in everyday lifeThe role organizations should play (but often overplay) in your growthIf you’ve ever felt stuck waiting for someone to invest in you, this episode is your reminder: development doesn’t require permission—it requires a posture.About Clay Scroggins: Clay Scroggins is a sought-after ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠speaker and leadership coach⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠known for his practical and engaging approach to leadership. He is the author of three books, most notably ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How to Lead When You're Not In Charge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. With a passion for helping leaders thrive in any environment, Clay brings valuable insights and real-world experience to this podcast and his ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠weekly email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more at ClayScroggins.comAbout Adam Tarnow: Adam Tarnow is a recovering CPA and now a partner at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PeopleWorks International⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where he heads the Leadership Development Practice. He is the co-author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Edge: How to Stand Out by Showing You're All In⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and shares his insights on leadership through his Substack, Beyond the Obvious. Learn more at AdamTarnow.com

Many talented leaders quietly do excellent work, wondering why no one sees it. If that’s you, you’re not alone. In this episode, Clay and Adam explore how to show up, stand out, and get noticed without becoming someone you’re not.They’ll cover:The difference between humility and invisibilityThree common reasons you feel overlooked (and what to do about it)How to get noticed without selling out: narrate your thinking, ask better questions, and offer help upwardThis episode is for leaders who want to be more influential without being louder—who want to lead with clarity, courage, and consistency.📝 “Don’t try to be louder. Just be clearer, bolder, and more consistent.”About Clay Scroggins: Clay Scroggins is a sought-after ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠speaker and leadership coach⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠known for his practical and engaging approach to leadership. He is the author of three books, most notably ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How to Lead When You're Not In Charge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. With a passion for helping leaders thrive in any environment, Clay brings valuable insights and real-world experience to this podcast and his ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠weekly email⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more at ClayScroggins.comAbout Adam Tarnow: Adam Tarnow is a recovering CPA and now a partner at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PeopleWorks International⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, where he heads the Leadership Development Practice. He is the co-author of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Edge: How to Stand Out by Showing You're All In⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and shares his insights on leadership through his Substack, Beyond the Obvious. Learn more at AdamTarnow.com