If You've Come This Far

Chris and Shaun sit down with Matt Davison, the CEO of NAMI Chicago, to explore the intersection of law, advocacy, and radical empathy. Matt shares his transition from serving as a public defender and civil litigator to leading one of the nation's most prominent mental health advocacy organizations. He discusses the limitations of our current "triage" approach to mental health and why we must move "upstream" to address systemic issues before they become crises.Matt also opens up about his personal philosophy on "self-love" vs. "self-care," his concerns regarding the toxic impact of social media algorithms on youth, and the visceral moment on a Chicago Blue Line train that changed his perspective on systemic reform forever. This conversation is a pragmatic yet hopeful look at how we can build a more dignified system of care for all Chicagoans.Key Takeaways:The "Hammer and Nail" Fallacy: Why the criminal justice system is fundamentally ill-equipped to handle healthcare crises.The Blue Line Inflection Point: A powerful story about why individual advocacy isn't enough to fix a broken system.Upstream Intervention: The necessity of investing in community resources to prevent the "triage mode" of emergency rooms and jails.Social Media as a Public Health Crisis: Comparing modern algorithms to the "Big Tobacco" moment and their impact on youth body image.Self-Love vs. Self-Care: A therapist’s distinction between occasional treats and the daily practice of checking in with yourself.Resources Mentioned:NAMI Chicago: namichicago.org988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: Dial 988 for immediate supportThanks to our sponsor, Mental. Mental is a wellness app built specifically for men, offering a sanctuary from "toxic positivity" and generic advice. It provides personalized, affordable, and science-backed support through real-life coaching designed to help you navigate life's messiest challenges. If you've been thinking about doing something for your mental health, visit https://app.getmental.com/subscribe to get started.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps more people find these important conversations!

Chris and Shaun sit down with Katie Fogarty, a communications expert, "proud crusader" for women in midlife, and the host of the popular podcast A Certain Age. Katie discusses her journey from a religion major at Holy Cross and a teaching stint in a Japanese fishing village to becoming a leading voice in the "menopause zeitgeist." We explore the systemic gaps in women’s healthcare, the "beauty industrial complex," and why Katie believes that aging isn't about becoming invisible—it’s about becoming visible to the right people.Key Takeaways:The Menopause Zeitgeist: Why the conversation around menopause is finally hitting the mainstream and why "bikini medicine" (focusing only on the pelvis) is failing women’s brain, heart, and bone health.Aging Out Loud: Katie’s philosophy on resisting the "anti-aging" narrative and why she refuses to allow advertisers on her show who suggest that aging is a condition to be "fixed."Curiosity as a Superpower: How partners and husbands can support the women in their lives by educating themselves on perimenopause rather than waiting for their partner to explain it.The "Invisibility" Myth: A reframe on midlife—arguing that 50+ is not a time of fading away, but a time of intentional reinvention and newfound relevancy.Episode Highlights:[00:00] Intro: Shout out to our friend and previous guest Jason Ronai on his new role at the Basketball Museum of Illinois (plus a goat debate).[02:15] The Small World: We uncover multiple points of connection and discuss Katie's career journey.[14:30] Culturally Catholic: Katie discusses her upbringing, the "Spotlight" scandal, and how she and her husband navigated faith while raising three young adults.[23:00] The Birth of A Certain Age: The "aha moment" when a New York Times bestselling author and a Michelin-starred chef both admitted they were afraid to go public with being over 50.[28:15] The Medical Gap: The staggering statistics behind NIH funding for women's health and the importance of HRT as a foundation for mental health.[35:10] Advice for Men: How husbands can "pull their heads out of their butts" and become active participants in the conversation around hormonal health.[43:00] Voting with Your Wallet: Why Katie chooses to use reading glasses and color her hair while still rejecting the "anti-aging" industrial complex.[53:40] Parenting Truths: Advice for parents of 17-year-olds on finding what "lights you up" rather than just padding a resume.[58:20] The Speed Round: Sunblock regrets, the "this too shall pass" mantra, and what Katie hopes people say at her wake.Connect with Katie Fogarty:Podcast: A Certain AgeInstagram: @acertainagepodCompany: The Reboot Group

In this episode, we sit down with author, activist, and education policy expert Justin Cohen to explore the evolving role of fatherhood in the 21st century. Justin shares his personal journey from growing up in a household steeped in education advocacy to launching Dads for All, a movement designed to engage fathers in both community building and "bite-sized" civic action. We dive into the "low bar" of current fatherhood expectations, the lack of dedicated "dad spaces" in the advocacy world, and how to build a movement that prioritizes authentic connection over corporate metrics. Finally, Justin reflects on the importance of "staying in the pocket" when tackling long-term social struggles.Key Topics:The "Expert" Paradox: Why Shaun and Chris believe the most important conversations happen when "non-experts" stay curious and dive into deep issues.Education in the Water: Justin reflects on growing up with a special ed teacher mother and a global policy expert grandfather, and how their warnings shaped his career.The Dads for All Movement: Moving beyond the "nonprofit industrial complex" to build a movement that focuses on "belonging-adjacent activation."Bridging the Policy Gap: How to get dads involved in systemic issues like childcare affordability and paternity leave without making them feel like they’re joining a "mom space."Movement vs. Nonprofit: Justin explains why he pivoted away from raising money for a "job" to focus on building a sustainable base of engaged fathers.The 2030 Landscape: A look at how issues like AI-driven unemployment and the cost of childcare are the next frontiers for organized fatherhood.Notable Quotes:"Men in my generation are doing 3x the childcare their dads did... but my statistician friend calls that a 'low bar easily cleared.'""We’re not building a nonprofit; we’re building a movement. If this ends up looking like a nonprofit because that’s what I’m comfortable with, I will have failed.""Stay in the pocket. Once you get out of the pocket, you can’t get back in."Resources Mentioned:Dads for All: https://dadsforall.com/Justin’s Book on School Improvement: https://www.amazon.com/Change-Agents-Transforming-Schools-Ground/dp/1071875787Thanks to our sponsor, Mental. Mental is a wellness app built specifically for men, offering a sanctuary from "toxic positivity" and generic advice. It provides personalized, affordable, and science-backed support through real-life coaching designed to help you navigate life's messiest challenges. If you've been thinking about doing something for your mental health, visit https://app.getmental.com/subscribe to get started.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps more people find these important conversations!

Chris and Shaun welcome Sean Harvey, an advisor, consultant, author, and ordained interfaith minister. Sean has dedicated his life to helping men in hyper-masculine systems--ranging from Wall Street to police departments and the military--reconnect with their humanity. The trio discusses Sean's journey growing up as a gay man in Southwest Ohio, his transition from a high-stakes Wall Street consultant to an interfaith minister, and how to find common ground with those on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum. Sean explains the "Masculinity Imprint" on our organizations and how the term "Warrior" can help men embrace compassion.Notable Quotes"Compassionate Warrior is an identity that you can claim. Warrior Compassion is an energy within that men, when they’re courageous enough, can access." — Sean Harvey"I am never going to tell you what you should be as a man. I’m never going to tell you that you need to embrace healthy masculinity...I’m going to talk about some of the realities on the journey." — Sean Harvey"When we humanize and give officers more capacity, it actually makes them stronger. It’s not about softening; it's about strengthening." — Sean HarveyResources MentionedSean’s Org and Book: Warrior Compassion: Unleashing the Healing Power of MenMenLiving Website: menliving.orgHere’s the bluegrass song detailing the devastating 1974 tornado that struck Xenia, Ohio: Oh! What a StormThanks to our sponsor, Mental. Mental is a wellness app built specifically for men, offering a sanctuary from "toxic positivity" and generic advice. It provides personalized, affordable, and science-backed support through real-life coaching designed to help you navigate life's messiest challenges. If you've been thinking about doing something for your mental health, visit https://app.getmental.com/subscribe to get started.

In this episode, the guys talk with acclaimed photographer, Stacy Waldman Bass, about her memoir, Lightkeeper. They explore Stacy's draw to photography, the value of stories and photos to keeping memories alive, the tragic accident that changed her life, what it's like to write a memoir, the therapeutic value of writing, the challenges of balancing grief and joy, and more.Get your copy of Lightkeeper hereCheck out Stacy's work hereGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF

Join Chris and Shaun as they chat with Pete Davis, writer, film maker, and civic advocate about his book, Dedicated: The Case for Commitment in An Age of Infinite Browsing and his documentary, "Join or Die." The guys cover the influence his mom and dad had on him, growing up in Falls Church, making a life in Baltimore, why he decided not to be a lawyer, the importance of community participation, the power of invitation, the challenge of connecting in our technological times, the need for good leaders in the effort to revive civic engagement, and more.Learn more about Pete and his missions https://petedavis.orgWatch Join or Die https://joinordiefilm.comGet a copy of Dedicated hereGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF

In this episode, Chris and Shaun talk with Blayne Smith, co-founder of Applied Leadership Partners. The guys discuss Blayne's decision to go to West Point, his time there, and his time as a Special Operations Forces member. They also discuss golf, rucking, parenting, applied leadership, PTSD, perseverance (His book with co-author and business partner, Brandon Young, is Perseverance is Greater than Endurance), his time at Team RWB, and supporting the "Veteran Check In" initiative at the George W. Bush Institute, which provides free mental health resources for veterans and their families, and more.Learn more about Blayne and Applied Leadership Partners hereGet Rucking at GORUCK hereGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF

In this episode, Chris and Shaun interview Bill Burke, founder of the Optimism Institute. The guys discuss Bill's relationship with Ted Turner and his early career at Turner Broadcasting, his time leading the Weather Channel and his life in minor league baseball as owner of the Portland Sea Dogs. They discuss the importance and power of optimism, The Paradox of Modern Optimism (Burke's forthcoming book), the difficulty to remain optimistic in part to the constant negativity and "doom scrolling" fueled by social media, and more.Learn more about the Optimism Institute hereGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF

In this episode, the guys interview Jon Macaskill, former Navy SEAL and co-host of the "Men Talking Mindfulness" podcast. After doing a quick opening meditation, they discuss Jon's growing up in Louisiana, great coaches, Jon's choice to go into the military, his journey from enlisting in the Navy to becoming a SEAL, his struggles with PTSD and subsequent recovery through mindfulness. the creation of his podcast with Will Schneider and more.Learn more about Jon hereListent to Men Talking Mindfulness hereGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF

in this episode, Chris and Shaun talk with Sam Pressler, founder of the non-profit, the Armed Services Arts Partnership (ASAP) and his new project, Connective Tissue. The guys discuss entrepreneurship, grandmothers, flourishing, professionalism, veterans, humor as a connection mechanism and more!Learn more about Sam and his projects hereFollow the Connective Tissue Substack hereGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF

Chris and Shaun talk with Chris' friend, Trish Tierney, co-founder of WAKE, Women's Alliance for Knowledge Exchange. The gang discusses Notre Dame, rowing, kids, Trish's development of WAKE, lessons in travel, matchmaking women in tech with nonprofits around the world, WAKE's aims to scale its US program while exploring new countries for its international efforts, WAKE success stories, men's involvement in the program and more.Learn more about Trish and WAKE hereGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF

In this episode, Shaun and Chris welcomes Dr. Daniel Ellenberg, a psychologist, former president of Division 51 of the American Psychological Association, and founder of the Men and Boys Compassion Coalition. The guys discuss compassion, pain and suffering, New Jersey, Strong Boys with Heart, growing up Daniel, the negative perception of compassion in men, Daniel's coming book, "Strength with Heart," with Fred Rabinowitz, and much moreLearn more about Daniel hereLearn about the Men and Boys Compassion Coalition hereGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF

In the sixth episode of Season 4, Shaun and Chris sit down with Cathy Cassani Adams to talk about her new book, Restoring Our Girls, a guide for parenting girls ages 12 to 25. Cathy shares insights from her work as a social worker and professor, emphasizing the importance of honest conversations, critical thinking, media literacy, and creating a supportive, non-judgmental space for girls to express themselves. They also discuss the Super Bowl, Zen Parenting Radio, life lessons, the power of sensitivity, staying grounded in our own thoughts and feelings leading with kindness, and more.Get the book, Restoring Our Girls.Read Cathy's SubstackListen to Zen Parenting RadioGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF