In Common

In this episode, Michael interviews organizers of the upcoming IASC 2027 conference: Yanti Kusumanto, Nurhady Sirimorok, and Micah Fisher. Together they discuss the conference's theme, sub-themes, and the significance of hosting it in Makassar, South Sulawesi, Indonesia, a region with deep relevance to commons governance. The conference website is live! For more information, go to https://2027.iasc-commons.org/ This is the first in a new series of episodes exploring each of the conference's subthemes, so stay tuned for more!

In this episode Divya speaks with Rachel Carmenta, Associate Professor of Climate Change and International Development at the University of East Anglia. They discuss Rachel’s recent work on the poverty–biodiversity loss association (PBLA) and the idea of connected conservation. In this scholarship, Rachel and her colleagues critically examine how mainstream conservation narratives have often framed poor and rural communities as drivers of biodiversity decline, while overlooking the larger structural forces, such as extractive industries, unsustainable patterns of consumption, and unequal political and economic systems, that are central to environmental degradation and biodiversity loss. They also discuss how poverty is often reduced to income deprivation and how that framing has made conservation and development programs to focus heavily on cash-based incentives and payment schemes. Rachel argues that poverty is way more than income deprivation; instead, it must be understood as multidimensional, encompassing wellbeing, dignity, health, education, security, and access to social services. This broader understanding challenges narrow approaches to both poverty alleviation and conservation governance. Another important theme in their discussion is connected conservation, which emphasizes the interconnected relationships between people, ecosystems, livelihoods, cultural practices, and local knowledge systems, rather than viewing conservation and human wellbeing as separate or competing goals. In this context, Rachel reflects on biocultural conservation and the importance of recognizing the ways communities live with, care for, and understand their environments and what these relationships can teach us about more just and meaningful approaches to conservation in a rapidly changing world. References: Carmenta, R., Lima, M.G.B., Choiruzzad, S.A., Dawson, N., Estrada-Carmona, N., Hicks, C., Kallis, G., Nana, E., Killick, E., Lees, A. and Martin, A., 2025. Unveiling pervasive assumptions: moving beyond the poverty-biodiversity loss association in conservation. Current Opinion in Environmental Sustainability, 74, p.101537. Tebboth, M.G., Carmenta, R., Minas, A., Adelekan, A., Cao, X., Fullonton, A., Kinally, C., Cataldo, N.L., Mander, S. and Shelton, C., 2025. The ‘how’of transformation: Principles for a justice-centered response to the climate and biodiversity crises. Environment: Science and Policy for Sustainable Development, 67(3), pp.7-23. Carmenta, R., Barlow, J., Lima, M.G.B., Berenguer, E., Choiruzzad, S., Estrada-Carmona, N., França, F., Kallis, G., Killick, E., Lees, A. and Martin, A., 2023. Connected Conservation: Rethinking conservation for a telecoupled world. Biological Conservation, 282, p.110047. Lapola, D.M., Pinho, P., Barlow, J., Aragão, L.E., Berenguer, E., Carmenta, R., Liddy, H.M., Seixas, H., Silva, C.V., Silva-Junior, C.H. and Alencar, A.A., 2023. The drivers and impacts of Amazon forest degradation. Science, 379(6630), pp. 8622. Carmenta, R., Zaehringer, J.G., Balvanera, P., Betley, E., Dawson, N.M., Estrada‐Carmona, N., Forster, J., Hoelle, J., Lliso, B., Llopis, J.C. and Menon, A., 2023. Exploring the relationship between plural values of nature, human well‐being, and conservation and development intervention: Why it matters and how to do it?. People and nature, 5(6), pp.1720-1738.

What does it take to grow more forests and ensure they last? In this episode, Michael Cox speaks with conservation scientist and award-winning science writer Lauren E. Oakes, author of Treekeepers: The Race for a Forested Future. Through reporting and research that spans from the Scottish Highlands to tropical forests in Central America, Treekeepers tells the story of the global movement to restore forests and the people working to make it possible. Drawing from these experiences, Oakes reflects on the promise and complexity of natural climate solutions and what successful reforestation requires on the ground. She also examines a central question in the climate conversation: to what extent can forests help save us from climate change? Along the way, Oakes discusses her path bridging science and narrative storytelling, and why human stories can play a powerful role in helping people understand and engage with climate solutions.

In this episode, Michael speaks with Nathan Truitt, Executive Vice President of Climate Funding for the American Forest Foundation. Nathan works in support of AFF's Family Forest Carbon Program, which it implements in collaboration with the Nature Conservancy. The program is designed to enable small-scale forest landowners to access carbon markets and credits. Together, Michael and Nathan talk about the goals of the program and how it meets the primary challenges that any such program faces, namely ensuring that real and lasting impacts on carbon storage and sequestration are made through the interventions that it supports. References: Nathan's background and bio: https://www.forestfoundation.org/who-we-are/people/nathan-truitt/ More information about the Family Forest program: https://www.forestfoundation.org/why-we-do-it/family-forest-blog/ More information about the permanence trust: https://www.forestfoundation.org/permanence-trust/

In this episode, Divya speaks with Sean Fox and Gregory Randolph about urbanization and how it is unfolding amid global shocks and affecting inequality. Sean Fox is a Professor of Geography and Global Development at the University of Bristol. His research focuses on the causes and consequences of global urbanization, the political economy of urban governance, and sustainable city futures. Gregory Randolph is an Assistant Professor in the School of City and Regional Planning at Georgia Tech. His work focuses on how local economies and urbanization patterns are being reshaped by 21st-century transitions namely technological, energy and demographic transitions, with a particular focus on inequality. Together, Sean and Gregory offer rich interdisciplinary insights that challenge conventional understandings of urbanization, showing that urbanization is not just about the growth of cities or a straightforward shift from rural to urban. Rather, it's a geo-demographic transformation that is deeply embedded in political, social, and economic processes. The conversation also sheds light on the hidden stories of urbanization in the global south for example, the stories of migration in the indian state of Bihar where Gregory has been working, deindustrialization, regional divergence, and the hollowing out of labor markets and how these processes contribute to interpersonal and inter-place inequalities. This episode was recorded at a time when massive wildfires in Los Angeles were making headlines everywhere, prompting a timely question for our guests: What should planners be thinking about as they rebuild cities after disasters? Both Sean and Gregory voiced serious concern about the increasing frequency and scale of natural disasters and how such events are amplifying pre-existing inequalities. They emphasized that recovery and rebuilding cannot be the task of planners alone. It must also be a political project—one that demands bold, inclusive, and forward-thinking political leadership committed to building cities that account for vulnerability, address structural inequalities, and prioritize resilience for all. Sean and Gregory are both compelling storytellers, and their work offers a grounded and timely lens on how urbanization is evolving in a world marked by rising uncertainties and deepening inequalities, and I am extremely grateful to have had the opportunity to engage with them and their brilliant & relevant scholarship References: Fox, S., & Goodfellow, T. (2022). On the conditions of ‘late urbanisation’. Urban Studies, 59(10), 1959-1980. Randolph, G. F., & Currid-Halkett, E. (2022). Planning in the era of regional divergence: place, scale, and development in confronting spatial inequalities. Journal of the American Planning Association, 88(2), 245-252. Randolph, G. F., & Storper, M. (2023). Is urbanisation in the Global South fundamentally different? Comparative global urban analysis for the 21st century. Urban Studies, 60(1), 3-25. Fox, S., & Wolf, L. J. (2024). People make places urban. Nature Cities, 1(12), 813-820. Fox, S., Agyemang, F., Hawker, L., & Neal, J. (2024). Integrating social vulnerability into high-resolution global flood risk mapping. Nature communications, 15(1), 3155. Randolph, G. F. (2024). Does urbanization depend on in-migration? Demography, mobility, and India's urban transition. Environment and Planning A: Economy and Space, 56(1), 117-135. Randolph, G. F., & Deuskar, C. (2024). Urbanization beyond the metropolis: Planning for a large number of small places in the global south. Journal of Planning Education and Research, 44(1), 279-291. Randolph, G. F. (2025). Planning the “Ruralopolis” in India: Circular Migration, Survival Entrepreneurship, and the Subversive Non-Farm Economy. Journal of Planning Education and Research, 45(2), 305-317.

In this episode, Divya speaks with Saad Gulzar, Associate Professor of Political Science and Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. At the time of recording of this episode, he was at Princeton University and has since moved to Notre Dame. Gulzar’s research focuses on the politics of development in South Asia and centers on a critical question: How can governments deliver better outcomes for their citizens? His work combines randomized control trials, administrative data, and in-depth qualitative insights to examine how political representation and bureaucracies can become more responsive. The conversation explores Gulzar’s research on the relationship between politicians and bureaucrats, and the conditions under which their collaboration leads to more effective governance. Gulzar’s findings highlight how the everyday decisions and motivations of these key actors shape the design and delivery of public policy. By uncovering these dynamics, his work offers valuable insights into how governments can better align expectations and improve the delivery of services in people's daily lives. References: Gulzar, S., Pathak, D., Thompson, S., & Toth, A. (2025). Can Party Elites Shape the Rank and File? Evidence from a Recruitment Campaign in India. American Political Science Review, 119(2), 812-831. Gulzar, S., & Khan, M. Y. (2025). Good politicians: Experimental evidence on motivations for political candidacy and government performance. Review of Economic Studies, 92(1), 339-364. Gulzar, S. (2021). Who enters politics and why?. Annual Review of Political Science, 24(1), 253-275. Gulzar, S., & Pasquale, B. J. (2017). Politicians, bureaucrats, and development: Evidence from India. American Political Science Review, 111(1), 162-183.

In this episode, Michael speaks with Nate Dominy, the Charles Hansen Professor of Anthropology at Dartmouth College. Nate is a biological anthropologist and an evolutionary biologist, studying the behavior, ecology, and functional morphology of humans and nonhuman primates. Nate speaks with Michael about his new research program on the role of fire in promoting social cohesion among humans. Fire is argued to have played an important role in human evolutionary history, and there are multiple mechanisms that have been hypothesized for how it could promote cohesion, including its rhythmic nature (its flicker rate), and its ability to enable storytelling, which itself is known to facilitate an increased sense of belonging and togetherness. This topic is an important complement to more traditional commons and institutional studies discussed on this podcast, which largely focus on how rules and norms can promote collective action and other outcomes. References: Nate’s website: https://anthropology.dartmouth.edu/people/nathaniel-j-dominy Dunbar R.I.M., Gowlett J.A.J. 2014 Fireside chat: the impact of fire on hominin socioecology. In Lucy to Language: The Benchmark Papers (eds. Dunbar R.I.M., Gamble C., Gowlett J.A.J.), pp. 277–296. Oxford, Oxford University Press. Lynn C.D. 2014 Hearth and campfire influences on arterial blood pressure: defraying the costs of the social brain through fireside relaxation. Evolutionary Psychology 12(5), 983-1003. (doi:10.1177/147470491401200509). Wiessner P.W. 2014 Embers of society: firelight talk among the Ju/’hoansi bushmen. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA 111(39), 14027-14035. (doi:10.1073/pnas.1404212111).

In this episode, Michael speaks with Jake Kheel, Vice President of Sustainability at the Grupo Puntacana Foundation, a non-profit organization located in the Dominican Republic. The Foundation is funded in large part by Grupo Puntacana, a major tourism company in Punta Cana, which is the most well-known tourism destination in the DR. As background, Michael met Jake some years ago through Michael's longtime collaborator, Freddie Payton, who runs the Dominican NGO AgroFrontera in the province of Montecristi on the other side of the country. Jake and Michael discuss Jake’s 2021 book, Waking the Sleeping Giant: Unlocking the Hidden Power of Business to Save the Planet. In the book Jake describes his experiences working in Punta Cana, and the efforts that he and his colleagues have made to address numerous social and environmental issues, including overfishing, coral degradation, invasive seaweed, waste disposal, and water management. Jake and Michael discuss the reasons behind the successes of the Foundation, including the presence of local champions who invest in a particular place and its problems for the long term, which may be less glamorous but is critical for enduring success. References Jake’s website: https://www.jakekheel.com/ Kheel, J. 2021. Waking the sleeping giant : unlocking the hidden power of business to save the planet. Lioncrest Publishing.

In this final episode in our series on the future of fisheries management, Michael speaks with two of the co-organizers of the initial meeting that led to this series. Ilia Murtazashvili is a professor in the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Pittsburgh, where he also serves as the Associate Director at the Center for Governance and Markets. Christine McDaniel is a Senior Research Fellow at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, which also has a central focus on markets and society. Each guest discusses their respective careers and the academic centers where they work. Ilia introduces the concepts of polycentricity and polycentric governance and their relationship to large-scale commons dilemmas such as overfishing, while Christine helps to explain the role of the World Trade Organization in fisheries policy through its rules and fishing subsidies, which has been a central topic throughout this podcast series. To conclude this series, we want to thank Garret Brown at the Mercatus Center, where he is the Senior Director for Publications. Garrett was on the zoom call for this interview and you’ll hear him mentioned him a few times.

This is the fifth episode in our future fisheries management series, which we are running in collaboration with the Mercatus Center at George Mason University and the Center for Governance and Markets at the University of Pittsburgh. Today’s guest, Kerrlene Wills, participated in the negotiation process for the 2022 World Trade Organization (WTO) agreement on fishing subsidies as a representative of the nation of Guayana, and has written about the resulting agreement. This is primarily aimed towards curbing subsidies for what is known as illegal, unreported and unregulated (IUU) fishing. It also tried curb the fishing of over-depleted populations, and vessels fishing on the unregulated high seas. A point that Kerrlene makes is that not all subsidies are the same, and therefore should not be subject to the same rules and constraints. The main category that Kerrlene highlights are subsidies that developing countries give to small-scale fishers, which are important for local livelihoods and which don’t necessarily lead to overfishing through overcaptilazition. Kerrlene is currently the director of Ocean and Climate at the UN Foundation, and she discusses her current work with Michael, in which she is involved in efforts to decarbonize the global transportation industry trough some type of pricing mechanism along the lines of a carbon tax or a cap and trade scheme. Resources: Kerrlene’s website at the UN Foundation: https://unfoundation.org/author/kerrlene-wills/ Kerrlene’s article on fisheries subsidies: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4607279 WTO agreement on fisheries webpage: https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/rulesneg_e/fish_e/fish_e.htm Guardian piece about the WTO agreement: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/21/first-wto-deal-on-fishing-subsidies-hailed-as-historic-despite-big-holes

In this episode, Michael talks with Marty Anderies, Professor in the School of Sustainability at Arizona State University. They discuss a book that Marty co-authored with Marco Janssen, a colleague of his at Arizona State, entitled Infrastructure for Sustainability. The book is designed to introduce readers to the work of Elinor “Lin” Ostrom and her colleagues on the role of institutions in shaping behavior. Ostrom pioneered the study of institutions, particularly in context of the self-governance of resource-dependent communities. Marty discusses Lin’s work and the role that she played in his career. The book also introduces readers to the work of Buzz Holling and his colleagues on the resilience of complex systems. Resilience is an important boundary concept, being used by multiple fields to describe the ability of a system to “bounce back” and sustain itself in a particular regime or state. It is related to but distinct from the idea of robustness, which relates the ability to maintain a desired system function in the face of disturbance and uncertainty. In the last half of the conversation, Michael and Marty try to unpack what these terms mean and how they can and should be used to understand our relationships with each other and the natural environment. Finally, Marty also talks about the importance of the term infrastructure, which is similar to but different from the idea of capital as many people use it. In describing his preference for infrastructure, Marty has provided this quotation from Bowles and Gintis (2005) that has influenced his thinking: "Perhaps social capital, like Voltaire’s God, would have to have been invented had it not existed. It may even be a good idea. It is not a good term. Capital refers to a thing that can be owned—even a social isolate like Robinson Crusoe had an axe and a fishing net. By contrast, the attributes said to make up social capital describe relationships among people. ‘‘Community’’ better captures the aspects of good governance that explain social capital’s popularity, as it focuses attention on what groups do rather than what people own" (Bowles and Gintis, 2005, p. 381). References: Bowles, S., & Gintis, H. (2005). Social capital, moral sentiments, and community governance. In Gintis, H., Bowles, S., Boyd, R., and Fehr, E., eds. Moral sentiments and material interests: The foundations of cooperation in economic life. Vol. 6. MIT press. Janssen, M., and Anderies, J.M. 2023. Infrastructure for Sustainability. https://pressbooks.pub/cisi/

In this episode, Michael speaks with Stephen Posner, the Director of Pathways to Planetary Health at the Garrison Institute. The Garrison Institute is located in Garrison, New York along the Hudson River. Its mission is to apply the skills and wisdom cultivated through contemplative practice, together with the insights emerging from science, to today’s urgent social and environmental challenges, leveraging transformational change and helping build a more compassionate, resilient future. Stephen obtained his PhD in Natural Resources from the University of Vermont in 2015, and has maintained an active research program that among things has focused on the role of boundary spanners, or organizations that are able to bridge gaps between groups and perspectives. Stephen’s answer to the question, what makes a good boundary spanner, emphasizes the importance of what he calls “self attention work” and developing a self-awareness of the reasons behind one’s own actions. Stephen also speaks about the importance of contemplative practice which is a major theme of the Garrison institute, and the importance of combining contemplation with action. References: Posner, S., Fenichel E.P., McCauley, D.J., et al. 2020. Boundary spanning among research and policy communities to address the emerging industrial revolution in the ocean. Environmental Science and Policy 104: 73-81. Neal, J., Posner, S., Brutzman, B. 2021. Understanding brokers, intermediaries, and boundary spanners: a multi-sectoral review of strategies, skills, and outcomes. Evidence & Policy. Stephen’s recent blog entry on combining inner and outer change: https://www.garrisoninstitute.org/blog/integrating-inner-and-outer-systems-change/ Metamorphosis event page: garrisonmetamorphosis.org

In this episode, Stefan speaks with Josephine Chambers. Josie is an Assistant Professor at Utrecht University in the Netherlands, situated within the Urban Futures Studio at the Copernicus Institute of Sustainable Development. Her research develops and examines approaches to questioning so-called ‘inevitable’ unjust futures and fostering collective imagination and agency towards more just and sustainable societies. She weaves together artistic, participatory, imaginative, decolonial concepts to collaboratively explore possibilities for transformative changes with diverse societal groups. In the podcast, they speak about two papers Josie and colleagues published analyzing co-production research, one titled ‘Six modes of co-production for sustainability’’ published in Nature Sustainability and the other titled ‘Co-productive agility and four collaborative pathways to sustainability transformations’ published in Global Environmental Change. They also discuss the role of creativity in science, and how linking art, creativity and science has potential to extract pluralistic sustainability narratives for just futures. Josie also explains how she brings her knowledge and passion for co-production and creativity into the classroom to reshape learning and student engagement. Six modes of co-production for sustainability https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-021-00755-x?utm_campaign=related_content&utm_source=HEALTH&utm_medium=communities Co-productive agility and four collaborative pathways to sustainability transformations https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378021002016 Josie’s ‘Urban Pulses’ blog https://www.uu.nl/en/research/urban-futures-studio/initiatives/blog-utopian-pulses Josie’s ‘Map of Rural Utopias’ https://www.uu.nl/en/research/urban-futures-studio/initiatives/techniques-of-futuring-a-mixed-classroom-with-policymakers/rural-utopias