In the Shift

Episode 114: We're back and talking about the challenges and possibilities of non-coercive community. In this conversation, Shane and Michael dive into the complexity of what happens when the forces of capitalism and individualism and/or the toxicity and abuse of previous religious communities make belonging to any community really challenging. One of the really potent aspects of high-demand religious communities is the degree of belonging people can experience, and then the overwhelming betrayal when that belonging is ruptured. What does this mean as we attempt to build safer non-coercive communities of trust and care in non-coercive ways? Are there still ways to belong to community when our previous experiences make this so difficult? How do communities speak about reciprocity, sustainability, mutual obligation and so on, when people have become understandably suspicious or triggered by the dynamics of community life? Shane Meyer-Holt co-leads Fitzroy North Community Church in Melbourne and Michael Frost is involved in leading Edge Kingsland in Auckland.

Episode 112: In this episode Shane Meyer-Holt returns for another conversation about the journey of engaging in and building non-coercive communities. We talk about how individualism and capitalism have profoundly shaped so many of us in themes of self-reliance and the importance of opportunity (as well as the freedom to take up those opportunities). These are deeply inbuilt into the psyche of our societal assumptions - and they happen to make regular sustainable commitment to communities of care and mutual obligation an incredibly difficult prospect. If we ultimately believe (and in many respects, understandably so) that we are on our own in keeping our heads above water - then commitment to community can come into conflict with our need for self-reliance. And if we think that we must be free to take every opportunity available to us, then mutual care and genuine healthy obligations to one another may well get in they of those opportunities. In many respects, all modern collectives are struggling with this new reality. Some embrace a model of high-reward, high-punishment community as a mechanism to sustain participation. But what happens if you don't believe in that kind of church or collective dynamic? We come to this conversation as people involved in leading church communities (Shane, at Fitzroy North Community Church in Melbourne, and Michael, at Edge Kingsland in Auckland). Contact: feedback@intheshift.com Support: www.patreon.com/intheshift

Episode 110: We continue our series on non-coercive community - a bunch of conversations in which we are exploring the possibilities and challenges we experience in building sustainable non-coercive collectives and communities. In this conversation, Shane Meyer-Holt discusses his research into capitalism, care and community. We reflect on how so many aspects of our lives have become shaped, defined and understood in capitalist/neoliberal terms. Shane suggests that capitalism is not just an economic theory but has become a social imaginary - in other words, it has come to profoundly and deeply impact how we think about self, identity, relationships, community and care... and what kind of 'productivity' (and use of our energy) really matters and is worth something. Instead of viewing ourselves as interdependent communal beings who rely on each other through mutual obligation, we are shaped to see ourselves as competitive self-interested autonomous individuals trying to get ahead. We explore how freedom is defined within this framework and the overwhelm/stress it can generate, the increase in self blame, and the powerful cultural tides that make regular and sustainable participation in non-coercive communities really challenging. Shane is a co-leader of Fitzroy North Community Church in Melbourne and Michael is leader of Edge Kingsland, a church in Auckland. Shane's research draws on the work of Bruce Rogers-Vaughan and his book "Caring for Souls in a Neoliberal Age". Email: feedback@intheshift.com Support: www.patreon.com/intheshift

Episode 108: Steff Fenton is author of the new book "Gender Expansive Faith: How Trans Lives are Illuminating the Divine, Transforming Feminism and Ending Christian Patriarchy." In this conversation we talk about Steff's journey of coming to terms with both their sexuality and then gender identity whilst also belonging to the church. We jump into a bunch of stuff including the distinctions between sex and gender, the spectrum and diversity of human experience, and the way in which strict gender binaries can create numerous problems for all humans. We also talk through some fascinating aspects of Jesus' reflection on marriage, eunuch's in the New Testament, the creation story in Genesis, and the gift that trans and non-binary folk can be to people of faith who are looking to find more expansive ways of seeing God and being human. You can find out more about Steff's work here and you can buy (and review) their new book via Amazon. To support the work of In the Shift, you can go to https://www.patreon.com/intheshift

Episode 106: Elise Heerde (she/her) is author of the recently published book "Holy Hell: Saved so hard I needed therapy". In this conversation we talk about Elise's experience of growing up within a high-demand/high-control pentecostal megachurch, her journey toward becoming a leader and staff member, through to the ways in which it all fell apart. Elise has now gone on to work in the space of helping people recover from religious trauma, and so we talk about red flags and warning signs of an unhealthy spirituality, we discuss "sin journals" and spiritual gaslighting, methods of control and manipulation, as well as dive into the kind of work she does to help people work through these experiences and find healing. Elise is a Certified Coach in Melbourne, Australia, who helps people recover from religious trauma and cultic systems. Her work is grounded in lived experience, professional training, and a passion for creating safe, judgment-free spaces with a splash of sarcasm. You can find out more about her work here. She is also a co-founder of The Religious Trauma Collective (Australia/New Zealand) You can support the work of In the Shift via Patreon. Get in touch via email: feedback@intheshift.com. In this episode I also mention fundraising for an album of progressively-inclined worship music by my faith community, Edge Kingsland. You can support that project here.

Episode 104: James Beck works with an organisation called A Rocha Aotearoa NZ (https://arocha.org.nz/) which is a Christian environmental conservation organisation. In this conversation we discuss the trajectory of his spirituality and work, especially how and why he made intentional choices to move away from the up-and-coming charismatic preacher kind of life, to become someone who instead is pouring his energy into environmental care, both in his own faith community and also in helping to cultivate this across a diverse range of faith communities in NZ. We talk about the tension between despair and active engagement that can come in this kind of work. We also reflect on how the 'outcomes' of ecological action (e.g. reversing climate change etc) are not the only measure of the importance of caring for our environment; there is something deeply human and deeply spiritual that can resonate in this space. As a part of his work, James is the director of the Eco Church network in New Zealand (https://www.ecochurch.org.nz/), as well as the host of the podcast Ngā Here – the Many Connections - a podcast that explores the connections between faith, caring for nature, and living in the context of Aotearoa NZ.

Episode 102: One of the predominant causes of our problematic relationship with the environment is the belief that humans are superior over, distinct from and independent to the rest of nature. We think this way partly due to our religious traditions that have understood humans as being at the centre of what God cares about, at the centre of the story of creation, and that salvation is ultimately all about us and our relationship with God. We're also shaped by our modern assumptions that put us in a dominant relationship with nature, setting us up to see it as something to extract value from, to make profit from, to make progress from, and ultimately to exploit. These stories, however, are not the only way to see things. There are alternative stories we can tell about what it is to be here, to be human, and the ways in which our existence is fundamentally interconnected with all of nature. And this can have a profound impact on our spirituality, our life and our behaviour.

Episode 100: This is it! We've gone and done it. We've made it to episode 100... and this means that we've ascended the mountain of success and significance and will finally get all the credit and recognition we deserve! Actually... it means none of that. But for this episode Shane Meyer-Holt interviews me (Michael) about the journey of the past few years, how I've changed since I started In the Shift - both in belief and approach - and the personal impact of this kind of journey. I hope that this conversation resonates with aspects of your own shifting path, as so many of us navigate the impact of changing faith, the impact on our community, spiritual trauma, a reconfiguring and reimagining of life, meaning and spirituality....and hope (or otherwise) for the future.

Episode 98: Thomas Jay Oord joins the pod for a great conversation on how we might start to think about God in the wake of deconstruction. We talk about his and Tripp Fuller's 2024 book "God After Deconstruction" and discuss the different intersecting factors that lead to deconstruction and how and why there might still be a place for God on the other side. For those still left with the God-question, with a wondering about ultimate reality, with a sense of something 'more', this conversation explores God and meaning without certainty or in/out binaries. We chat through why we might still believe in God, and perhaps more importantly, what kind of God this might be. For more of Tom's work, you can head to www.thomasjayoord.com. You can find the book 'God After Deconstruction' by Tom and Tripp here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/195867026X Contact: feedback@intheshift.com Support: www.patreon.com/intheshift

Episode 96: This conversation explores what it might mean to make meaning on the other side of Fundamentalism/Evangelicalism. As we "leave" one world behind (even as we carry many aspects of it with us - both seen and unseen), do we enter the 'real' world or is there no neutral space? What kind of world do we want to build, what values shape our engagement with the fundamental questions of what it is to be here, of the kind of life we might want to live, our relatedness to the divine and so on. What kind of assumptions are made about reality in an age of autonomous individualism and neoliberalism? How do we care for each other and so what could healthier versions of sacrifice and faithfulness look like?

Episode 94: Continuing our conversations around the world-building of our Evangelical/Pentecostal past, in this episode we examine the idea of depravity, sin and brokenness as being at the heart of humanness. What does this belief say about our fundamental identity, and how might that influence our sense of self as well as our relationship to God and others? We also explore the role that testimony plays within this world. Testimonies are often stories that uphold and promote the version of reality that is being built - and when there is only one kind of story arc allowed (i.e. from sin and brokenness to freedom and liberation) this means all sorts of stories and experiences are not given any airtime. It can also make it hard for us to see or acknowledge the ways in which our own life and experiences are not following the script.

Episode 92: In this conversation we explore a central theme of many Evangelical/Pentecostal/Charismatic approaches to parenting over the past few decades - namely, "obedience." We discuss the ways that obedience and compliance stem from the theological paradigm that views children born as corrupted sinners along with the looming threat of hell as eternal suffering for those outside the faith. In this context, obedience and compliance become central to parenting and discipleship, and in forming spirituality for all ages. But the outcomes of this can be deeply troubling; what does this say to a kid (or an adult for that matter) about God and about what really matters in the world? This can all contribute to a loss of autonomy and connection to our own wants, desires and needs, the suppression of genuine questions, fawning and people-pleasing extolled as a virtue (especially toward parents, pastors and leaders), and a susceptibility toward authoritarian and abusive leadership. So we tackle all of this, and begin to reflect on what it might mean for healthy spirituality, and what we should do with the themes of obedience found in Christian scripture.

Episode 90: This episode is a follow-up to our previous episode (89) about navigating relationships post-deconstruction, and this time Shane Meyer-Holt does the interviewing! He talks here with Jane Kennedy (a counsellor who works in the field of religious trauma) about the gender and power dynamics that are at play within high-demand/high-control religious communities, and in particular she reflects on the ways in which patriarchal systems - both explicitly and implicitly - impact on what it means for women to find authenticity, to take up space in the world, and to negotiate through the complexity of friendships and relationships after faith change. Contact: feedback@intheshift.com Support: www.patreon.com/intheshift ------- Jane Kennedy is a Sydney based Counsellor working on Wan-Gal land. She has lived experience of religious trauma and works with people as they go through faith transitions, leave church and/or God. This experience, still frequently misunderstood, can be life-altering. She brings language and framing for the complexities of religious trauma to the counselling space and works with other Australian therapists to broaden knowledge among those working with affected clients. Jane has written her story, an e-book, The Sentimental Non-Believer, on Loving & Leaving God. Her mini-course, What I Wish My Therapist Knew About Religious Trauma, is a resource for therapists. A new course, Freedom from Religious Trauma, for those with lived experience will be available in 2024. With much of her career spent in the International Aid & Development sector, Jane has a special interest in trauma-informed programming and the mental health of practitioners. Jane continues to work in this space with agency teams, navigating the impact of saviourism and vicarious trauma using radical self and collective care models. Jane has two completely delightful adult kids, and lives with two demanding rescue cats and a cyclist who all wake her before 5 most mornings." https://janekennedycounselling.com.au/